Hello - My daughter and son-in-law have just signed up as Amway distributors with the World Wide Dream Builders. I heard (from someone where I work) that they probably had to pay $800 or more to get into this organization arm of Amway. I can't seem to find the answer if this is true. I can't ask my daughter. Do you know if this is true or very likely to be true? I would very much appreciate your opinion because I think that Amway uses brainwashing methods that just really infuriates me. And my daughter does not have money. Thanks. Please send your answer to *
Hi Charles! Just wanted to share something with you...
This is what we have been up to since we were Amway and ILD Free..... We took our nine year old to DISNEYLAND, KNOTTS BERRY FARM AND UNIVERSAL STUDIOS for a FAMILY TRIP.... Three years we were financially traped into this ILD system of having to save your money for a Major Function... WELL NO MORE!!! IT was great to go on a trip for US..... We are back to using inexpensive NEGATIIVE PRODUCTS and saving time and money, We got the book the MILLIONAIRE NEXT DOOR and boy was it in complete contradicition of what ILD or any of the AMOs were teaching... and all this because we came upon your website and many others like it.
Also the other night one of our down line came to us. He said that he was ready to build the business. We told him a couple of months ago that we were no longer active in the business and that we were off standing order tape. We did not tell him about what we had read on the internet at that time, since we ourselves was still recovering from out mental invasion of ILD. However we knew that the right time will come when our downline will come to us for information and thus on that faithful night of August 3rd 98 opportunity presented itself.
We shared with him our experience and what we had learned on the net as objectively as possible. He will come back with his wife some time the end of the month since they will be going to the East coast to visit their family and friends this Thursday. Our down like had hopes to sign up their family. We do not know if they will still do this. We will fill you in on this later if they did or not.
Thanks and talk to you later....
I was a dist in Tx before moving to PA and getting my head clear enough to see the "business" for what it really is.
That lawsuit in Houston involved most of my upline. Do you know the finally outcome?
Thought for the day: CUBS WIN!!!! CUBS WIN!!!!!
Rather recently I was approach buy a man I met in a Burger King. He seemed like a nice guy and we had a few minutes of conversation while my group waited for our food. I am in the National Guard and this man was appearently fomer military, or so he said.
That Sunday evening he called my house and asked for an appointment. I thought this might be Amway, but I agreed anyway. Besides, it might be fun to hear the sales pitch.
He is in the Britt system. No Retail sales required. We only help others establish their own business. The standard approach as detailed in your site.
He did say his Diamond (Stewart (?) Upchurch) did not make money off of the tools. At least that what his diamond told him. The man who contacted me said he would be going direct in Sept. He also told me that the tools were important to building the Business and that no one that he knew of had been successfull without them. However, If I choose not to buy them, or attend the meetings, he would still provide support and training. (If that were to actually happen, I would be shocked.)
He told me (after I asked of course) that I could expect to "invest" about $11,000 a year in building the business. Time requirements would vary, but 10 hrs a week would be a minimum if I wanted a successfull business. Overall, I thought the guy to be fairly honest. I do not believe the his diamond's $500,000/year income comes soley from Amway. My father used to say, "Believe a man when he tells you how much he makes, and if your going into business with him, then ask to see the paperwork." I would like to see Mr. Upchurch's tax returns. I'll ask to meet him and see his paperwork, but I doubt that will happen
By the way, I have e-mailed Amway everyday for the past few days trying to get a reading on the requirements for retail sales. They haven't answered. I told them that I was told that retail sales were not required. I am waiting with baited breath for their response.
Your information has been an eye opener. I was approached by a man I happened to meet in a Burger King to look at a Business opprotunity. It was Amway. By itself, not a bad deal, I think. However, I do not believe that all the information he told me is correct. For example, his diamond has an annual income of $500,000 solely from Amway. He also said that his diamond did not make any money off tool sales. Personally, I think he was lied to. He was fairly honest with me. I had the advantage of reading your site and a couple of others before I met with him for real.
Based on your experience with the Company, How much business in real dollars would a diamond's downline have to produce for him to achieve half a million in income?
I have guessed somewhere around $10,000,000. That is based on 4% bonus and additional bonuses ($100,000) for being a diamond. I can't see how Amway would be able to pay more than this amount and still make any profit for the parent company. Is that in the BallPark?
One other question. Have you heard of know of any other company that direct markets general merchandise that is any more ethical than this group?
Your site is great, keep it going!!
Dear Charles:
I am sadly thrilled to find your website. Your site helped bring closure to an issue that has long haunted me.
I went into Amway almost five years ago. Shortly after I enrolled, I attended a FED function in Seattle, WA from the WWDB organization. Like many of the other readers, I convinced myself that I was going to make it and that it was the other people that weren't going to make it to the top.
As instructed, I enrolled in Standing Order tapes, setting myself up to purchase as many tapes and books as possible. Expressingly both unusual confidence and stupidty that I was going direct, I quit my job, school, and ran up credit card debt in a hurry. I rationalized to myself that since I'll earn $2,000 a month as a direct, I could get there faster with a full time non stop focus. I was attempting the non-stop 100 hour a week plan. In the peculiar logic of a 22 year old mind, it made sense at the time. Fortunately, my upline didn't tell me to quit my job, but he did instruct me to leave college behind. Hoever, as I became more involved, I began to notice peculiarities.
Higher pins, Emeralds, Diamonds, and above, told us repeatedly they made money well north of six figures. The diamonds further added that they were multi millionaries. Meanwhile, the more involved in the system I became, the more time I spent analyzing the numbers. The realization of the deception came with a simple conclusion: either Amway paid more money to high pins than disclosed or they were making there money somewhere else. I paid $5 per seat to attend rallies, functions, seminars, and other related propaganda meetings in Everett, WA. I knew it wasn't teribbly expensive to rent conference halls nor a hotel meeting room. Usually a few hundred people would show up, resulting in $1,500 in immediate cash sales. I also knew that tape duplication was relatively inexpensive in greater quantities. Despite these facts, I didn't connect the dots for quite some time. Instead, I led myself to believe that top distributors were isntead getting money from Amway that was unreported.
Thanks in large part to efforts by countless individuals such as yourself, the Amway business is at a crossroads. More people are finding out the truth about the hidden aspects of the "system." As more people use the internet, it makes it easier for people to research the realities of Amway
Thanks for your website. It's very informative and has helped answers many questions I've had about Amway. I'm not involved with Amway but do have close relatives who are. They've been in Amway for 7 years and I have not seen any clue of success. In fact, they appear to be in a lot of debt and on the road to bankruptcy.
Anyhow, I was wondering if there is any information about how to "convert" a brainwashed Amway distributor. I'm afraid if I confront them with the information I found on the Internet they will never speak to me again and/or just say it's all lies. I feel compelled to talk to them about it, but at the same time I'm afraid it may just make them even more determined to stick with Amway and cause a rift in the family.
Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated...
Based on my own figures, and with the help of that Emerald's website, I concluded that the AMOs account for close to 85-95% of al EDO and higher's income. Figuring that Greg Duncan made 4.5 million as a double diamond, it is easy to figure out that most of that money is not coming from Amway itself.
It truly is sickening when you think about it. Here they are telling you to "do whatever it takes" to stay plugged in the sytstem. Reading stories about people filing bankruptcy because they spent $30,000 to stay plugged in the system is patehtic.. But so was I. When I was active, I had to file bankruptcy because of my belief of the system. It just didn't take as long for me to move through the system. I was broke within a year, not 3 or four years like some other people. In that sense, I was lucky that it happened so fast. But it still took a toll on me. I have never forgot about Amway, nor will I ever unfortunately. I just have to move on.
You can count on that changing, and changing fast. Remember that 99% of all people that sign up for Amway are white., the majority of those being Christians. The average household income of whites is more than $30,000. Also, 40% of all white households own a computer. Since such a large portion of the white population (which Amway is geared towards) own a computer, and since that percentage is increasing (whites with computers), it is only a matter of time before more and more people do a search engine search on Amway and discover the hidden truth. I just wish the internet was around in 1994, it would have saved me a lot of heartache. In a sense, it has been a blessing in disquise that minorities have not been involved in the Amway business, historically. At least that prevents Minorities from getting scammed as much as other segements of the US population.
Charles, thanks so much for the time and effort you've put into educating the public about the Amway Mental Rape Program. Have twelve years of deprogramming to do and now in therapy and medication to help with depression and embarrassment of believing what I was told by Amway and Up-Line. The TRUTH is finally coming to the surface. Without the in-depth information you've provided, it would take me years to explain to the attorneys about the fraud, theft and misrepresentation that goes on behind closed of the AMO'S and the "SECRETS". Again, Thanks for your insight and quest to help others who thought we were the only ones!
I recently looked at your web site and felt it was not accurate for me.
I have been in the buisness for approx 6 months and have found my upline to be friendly and honest. I don't make a lot of money at this point but I know that I will, I have never been asked to attend function or meetings that I couldn't afford and at present I only purchase for my own use . You may want to check your figures on the ratio on the product for example the I recieved a box of SA8 Laundry Soap ( 3Kg) in the begining of Feb./98 and will be ordering somemore next month (in sept./98) There are four people including myself living here two adult and two children ages 2 and 4 years. I could never say that it took me 7 months to use any other brand of laundry soap before. I have found the claims on the products to be truthful and and accurate.
Thank You.
I think not. At least not in detail, or with an eye for considering the information. There is a corporate "blindness" about Amway. Sites like yours are considered "negative" and are avoided by Amway people.
It wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority of the employees at Amway are under the delusion that most of the distributors are...that they are a movement and they are changing the world, and that they are beyond reproach. Rich DeVos knows better.
You dont know me and I dont know you, and I have a few questions..I am sure you have been asked before, but I will answer anyways. Sounds like you have been there, did this , and wouldnt do it again...I dont want to make a mistake...I met this friend internationally by chat...then we developed a friendship..then the next thing I knew he mailed me a tape on success, was very vague....I emailed him in Canada. he mentioned he was in the Amway buisness....and was going to make big money wanted me to join him..move....I said I would research and that is what I am doing...I know back in the early seventies my Aunt made some money in Amway because she sold to big companies and got accounts..but I wouldnt get into it then...isnt it the truth that the money to be made has been made there is no money to be made in this multi level marketing area..
and half of what the people are told arent truths..or more than half..Ifeel for my friend because he is a post polio syndrome...and I think he is being taken for a ride...but dont know how to tell him..kindly that is....
Any suggestions
Thanks for replying so fast to my letter...I cant tell you how and what a smooth talker I am dealing with.....I knew it was a big mistake to give him my phone number...He is a charmer.....I guess the truth does apply that the devil comes in sheeps clothing...
You dont know what you save me...!I would appreciate any defense I can use towards this man....he is fast...so please feel free to forward my email....I know I have learned a valuable lesson...the truth is he wanted me to help him in his buisness to get it going....with what I have read on your site....I dont need anymore convincing....It is not my life style....I see now where I set myself up to be vulerable..
Thanks again for a fast response