< HEAD>Mail Messages

December stories

I don't know how long you were in Amway or what Organization you were under. In the World Wide Group we are taught to show 10 or sponsor 2 per month for 2 to 5 years. No one said it was going to be easy, and obviously you weren't showing 10 or sponsoring 2 since you have sooo much time on your hands to write about it.

I'm doing a statistical paper, and I need to know how you were able to write the statistic "The Divorce Rate in America is 50% and in Amway it is 1%!" without researching the 1 in 50 divorce rate?!

I'm not writing to be negative about what you do in all your spare time, I am just trying to do a paper for college credit.

Sorry the business didn't work out for you, better luck next time. :-)

I am a 18 year old college student who is also in Amway. Since I was 15 my parents have also been successful distrubuters. I am not trying to bash you like other so-called "ambots." Instead, I would like to say that most of your information made me laugh. It also made me wonder how much time you must have put into coming up with all that negative information on Amway. If you had put as much time and effort into building your distributorship as you did trying to degrade the system you probably could have been a millionaire. It's a shame that someone with as much dedication to Amway couldn't have used their talents more profitably.

-A Laughing Distributor

Charles thank you so much

I have read so much on Amway that I can't remember are you a former distributor?

I am considering getting involved with the business and I think I know some people that are in the Britt group and some in the Yager group. Do you have any opinion on which of these two is more ethical?

I feel Amway itself is a great company but it seems that some of the big distributors get things off track. Would you agree with that?

Can you be successfull without being in the Britt or Yager organizations? It seems that any contact I have ever had with a distributor, they are all associated with one of these two men.

Thank you again on a great site. I'll keep you posted of my adventures. By the way I am from Chicago Illinois. How about you?

Have a good one

I read with interest your comments about the "Just the Facts - No More Fiction" website, and had some comments about the reliability of information on the internet.

Without question, I believe that some of the information on the internet is bogus, and I welcome discussion about accuracy of the information on the internet. But what most people seem to be missing is, inaccuracy is prevalent in other types of media also, maybe even more so.

This was illustrated to me most clearly one day as I was driving home from work. I pulled off the road to observe firefighters attempting to contain a fire. I was next to a fire engine that had the radio going, so I could follow the firefighters progress. I couldn't wait to get home to find out more on the news. When I watched the news later that night, I was shocked to find out that not only was the story incomplete, but most of the information they presented was WRONG! I never forgot that day, and ever since, I have distrusted the mass media news.

There is information on the internet that I can't get anywhere else, at least not easily. Sidney Schwartz's site is a perfect example. That his site is a bit one-sided doesn't bother me in the least, as I was the one who chose to seek that information out, and I had complete control over whether I wanted to read it or not. The fact that companies like Amway are worried about people like Schwartz is testimony to the power of the internet to inform.

I am obliged to apply the test of reality to everything that I read, whether it comes from a book, a newspaper, or the internet. Everyone else should do the same.

I was sponsored by my brother last July '97. I was doing a very large retail business with Artistry. My direct decided to help me "grow my business" and I was convinced to hold two house meetings.

After a few months of being "core" and doing 300 PV a month without having sponsored anyone, I began to notice the drain on my business account. All the money I had socked away from retail sales was almost gone. I had been convinced that in order to succeed I needed to be on standing order tapes and books and attend all functions.

No problem, I thought. I hated trying to sponsor and thought I'd just return to retail sales. I had been led to believe that everything was covered by a return policy and my brother even said " you can't lose money, if you return the items you'll get a refund". He didn't believe all the stories of ex-distributors who claim to lose thousands.

I boxed up my tapes (unfortunately already listened to since I was "core". I sent back also my 3 info kits at a cost of nearly 75.00.

Well I'm told no way do I get a refund on listened to tapes.
1. They can't be resold.
2. The IRS supposedly gave the directs trouble when they use to refund money on tapes since it (tapes/tools) can be claimed as a business expense. Then I was told the open boxes of SA8 could be returned to Amway but I'd have to take it as a credit towards future purchases. Oh, also a couple of printed materials had my name on them and would have to be returned to me. I also have returned my Dream Night tickets via certified mail. I can't wait to see the excuses there.

I feel sorry for my brother. He really believes in Amway and has been "in" for over 4 years.

I just saw what it was doing to my account and how I was having trouble with my husband who was not in Amway.

So, there really is no way to recoup losses on tools, which is the majority of the drain on the distributors. Most "core" Amway people are going to take off the wrappers on those tapes and listen to them.

I have written the Amway Corp. on all this recently. My direct and brother still don't know all I feel about Amway. I don't know how to approach my brother.

By the way I'm in the World Wide Dream Builders organization in Dave Severns line of sponsorship. Talk about cult-like ! I even attended FED in dallas! Any comments or suggestions would be helpful.

At least I'm only out 300- 350.00 and not thousands, but it is still frustratins!

I just sent you an E-mail and want to add to it. The whole issue of "counseling" up-line and turning off any outside information is really holding true for my brother in Austin. He constantly counsels with his direct about marital problems.

He no longer watches TV, reads papers or listens to the radio. All info is through WWDB. Every spare moment in the car is an opportunity to pop in a tape and "learn". It is really scary since I was in that mind-set not to long ago.

Why doesn't someone look into this more in depth so that society in general begins to get a clear picture of Amway, or of the Amway Motivational Organizations? How long will this be allowed to go on?

I would like to begin by saying THANK YOU! After reading the information in you site, I made a very important decision regarding my "business". When it became to renew my distributorship, my wife and I decided not to renew. I apologize ahead of time if I become a little long winded with my story, but here it is.

Last year my wife and I were approached with the standard "Have you ever considered supplement or replacing your current income?" Like anybody that works for a living, we said yes. We later found out that it was indeed Amway. We had been approached several time before this and each time turned down the opportunity. Our friend was different, he had made a very appealing offer and we accepted.

Right from the start we did as we were told without question. We changed over our house to "positive" products, listened to tapes and read books, purchased 100 PV, attended local and major functions, and showed the plan. We were constantly being ridiculed by our friends and relatives. That was okay because we knew we were doing the right thing for our family. My wife and I were both attending school at the time which took a majority of the little time we had. It was told in a "nightowl" training that "no excuse was acceptable for missing the "Spring Leadership Training". If you do not attend, you should turn in you kit because you are going to fail." Unfortunately this was the begining of the end for us.

Somewhere along the line my wife started to become less interested in the business, but still handled all of the paperwork. She had taken a JOB which required her to work third shift weekends. Since she is attending nursing school, a job in a hospital Emergency Room was perfect. She was constantly being asked to call off work to attend functions. She couldn't and wouldn't oblige them or my request to attend. There was more to it, but she started to become topics of conversation with our upline. A few months ago my Ruby Direct and my sponsor asked if I could get togeth to map out a path for 1000 PV (qualifications were in for a 1000 and Above Leadership Training in Gatlinburg, TN). I wanted to go so I met them at a local restaurant. It soon turned into a conversation with me about why my wife had such an attitude and constantly said negative comments at pickup and with our downline. Negative comments such as "don't buy this dog food, you can get more for less money at Sam's warehouse." That didn't go over well recommending to buy a negative product. What I got out of this conversation was that if my wife wouldn't straighten out, leave her behind and build this business. On down the road she will begin to appreciate this business. I truly feel that a path to 1000 PV was never the intention but to have me set my wife straight and make her submit to my wishes of building this business.

The final straw that firmed our decision to quit was a problem that I had with the vitamins that they strongly encourage to use. I was taking the Double-X and a couple of others in the beginning. Later I decided to start on the Positrim weight loss plan with all of the vitamins recommended there. I should have consulted a physician, but I didn't. After 6 months of dedication to the plans, an opportunity for me to be offered a job I have always hoped would come along. It required a detailed physical including bloodwork. I am in pretty good shape or so I thought. My physical came back with a Liver problem that concerned the doctor enough that I was not allowed to be offered the job. More importantly was the fact that I needed to have tests drawn for Hepatitis because of the results. I had stopped taking the vitamins a couple of weeks prior to the physical because I did not want any unwanted results on a drug test. My family doctor did the follow up tests and started asking questions that might clue her into what caused my Liver problem. Six months earlier she had drawn blood for my yearly physical with great results. The only habits done differently between the two test were the vitamins. Maybe this was just a conincidence, but I will no longer use any of the vitamins.

Now with the end here, I would again like to say thank you because a lot of the information opened our eyes to the way Amway distributors are brainwashed. The people that read the information presented on all of the websites or conventional methods should have enough individualism to take in what is right or wrong to them to make intelligent decisions. My situation may be unique, but everyone joins for a reason and everyone quits for a reason. What I ask is that those of you who remain a part of Amway, stop looking down at those of us who quit as being "LOSERS". This is the phrase used by a lot of my upline to describe those that quit.

What should I do with all of the vitamins, literature, BSM, etc. that I have obtained and want my money back for? Please help!

> sorry to sense such pain and suffering from your amway experience. I am
> currently a distributor who has only had modest financial gains from the
> amway business itself, but have succeeded in nonfinancial means
> greatly...family relations, goal setting, self esteem, confidence...from my
> amway teachings I was able to leave my JOB where the pay was limited and go
> into my own business (mainstream). after ten years I have had great
> financial success in this business and I owe all the credit to amway and
> its teaching..infact now I want to leave this self empoyed position (cause
> its peaked out) and finish the amway business started years ago...I thank
> God for amway. My biggest lesson learned is not to quit..."call things
> which be not as if they are." Yes, positive confession and visualization
> are great techniques...sorry you were short changed.

This is Ashley Wilke's reply..not mine...just wanted to share it with my readers

Thanks for taking the time to write and share your experience and point-of-view.

One must define success and then present evidence to support that definition. Like you, my X wife claims success in "the Amway business." This is a pervasive tactic among Amway distributors - hyping, their success level through one means or another, even misrepresenting their income through tricks like showing their bonus checks to prospects and new recruits as net income. Now, don't get me wrong, Jerome. I'm not accusing you of this but, not being the author of my site and the recipient of thousands of responses from deceived and harmed individuals, you haven't a clue as to the extent of this (and other equally egregious) activity. This is why I take statements and claims like yours with a grain of salt unless they are backed up by copies of IRS Schedule C's from the last 3 years. Also, if you claimed your motivation expenses as a deduction on your taxes you have violated IRS code.

My X wife (she divorced me when I quit "the business") has been a distributor for 8 years now and has yet to reach the 4000 PV level. While working the business hard (being totally "core") with her for 4 of those 8 years (and creating the apparency of success by various means as we were taught by our upline in WWDB) we lost over $15,000 dollars because of what we spent on tapes and functions. My X still can't afford beds for my children in her house. They sleep on beat up mattresses on the floor. Nor does she have a stove. Yet, she always finds a way to come up with the funds for SOT and ALL functions. Why? Because she has become a motivation addict due to the cultist mind control tactics of ILDI (a spinoff of WWDB). She continues to lose money because of her "habit", yet, continues to tell everyone at every chance how powerful the AMway business is and that it is "the only way."

I am the first one to admit that some of the WWDB teachings and recommended books can be of benefit to some for an improved attitude toward life's challenges. This, however, isn't Amway. This is AMOway. WWDB and all AMO's are in the business of selling motivation and programming their distributors to do personal use. This is what brings the real wealth to a few select distributors, not the Amway business.

AMO's promote recruiting and virtually ignore retailing of Amway consumer goods and this is done because recruiting means large organizations and large organizations means exponential profits from the sale of motivation and "personal use" in the organizations. Apparently you didn't read the Brig Hart Suit section on my and similar sites. Apparently you didn't read about the Procter and Gamble suit either. Or the Gerald and Hedda Hayden suit.

One doesn't have to join an AMO to achieve personal growth and the necessary discipline and insight on how to attain success. Much of what was taught by WWDB I had already learned on my own through experience and reading. It is also taught through non-Amway success motivation businesses. I got into AMway because I was led to believe that the Amway business could provide me and my family the lifestyle portrayed at functions and conspicuously displayed by AMO leaders. I was tricked and seduced into believing that my value system was all wrong and that God encourages greed and materialism. Then I learned the truth of what I had originally suspected - that the majority of the income of these leaders is from their motivation business and not Amway. So these great imposters are simply USING Amway to lure the unsuspecting into their motivation business. If they were honest they would simply run Motivational Organizations and promote Amway as one of the possibile vehicles in which they could utilize their motivational teachings for the attainment of success.

This is a colossal and pervasively harmful deception. Even if I had attained success in through the strategy of "being core", I would have had nothing to thank Amway for because I never was in Amway. If you work in an AMO you are not in AMway. You are in AMOway and in violation of numerous FTC regulations and AMway own rules. All this, I believe, will be heard loud and clear with the with the outcomes of the Procter and Gamble suit, the Brig Hart suit, the Gerald and Hedda Hayden suit and the various other suits in preparation. You are thoroughly deceived when you thank Amway for your success in your current business. And you were throughly deceived by your AMO when you thought you were in the Amway business when in fact you were really paying a legally separate business to give you the right "PMA" at an exhorbitant cost. The fact that you quit and went into another business of your own speaks for itself. You mention nothing as to why you quit.

So when you start thanking Amway for what you may have gained in attitude and "success resources" please stop and think for a moment about what I have said here. Then, if you dare, ask your AMO idols which business has brought them most of their wealth (Amway retailing or motivation and personal use). If you get the truth from them, then, more than likely, you won't feel much like thanking anyone. Thanks for writing.

Ashley Wilkes

excellent web-site on Amway. I guess you must feel pretty strongly about it. At least it got your creative juices going!

I haven't had a chance to read all the material- unfortunately my connection to the web is slow. Also I couldn't get your story download.

Any chance you could give me your views directly? I have been approached and probably will turn it down, but it is an interesting phenomenon nonetheless. Do all the Amway distributor comments apply to those working under the Network 21 banner?

Many thanks in advance

Yesterday one of my friend came home to explain about AMWAY and that time it looked really good. Today I have gone through few of your web pages and I started having doubts. I have asked my fried ( active member of AMWAY) to have a look at this site.

I think your site has very valuable information which I should go through before getting into this. Thanks for the information and keep it up.

I really appreciate your reply.

I think my interest in Amways is acaedemic now. You have really opened my eyes to this, and by the way the web-site is excellent. I am sure you would do better designing websites than working for Amways.

I would be interested to find out the views of your friend in the UK, although as I say, it is acaedemic now!

all the best and success in what you do

My most sincere gratitude to you and Sydney for setting the record straight!! My husband and I almost found ourselves in the middle of a terrible nightmare.

I am fwding a letter I sent to Sydney...since then, my husband and I have gotten out completely. In the course of all of this, we have offended a couple (our would-be sponsors) because our concerns were seen as attacks to their integrity. The answer they gave us as to why most of this other info was not released when we were being recruited was that it is just too involved for most people to understand. As this was an insult to our intelligence, we were quite offended. ANYONE who asks you to make a BUSINESS decision on a wink, handshake and "trust me" should definately NOT be trusted. This is not how ETHICAL business takes place.

The document REQUIRED by the FTC ( the SA something or other) that deals with DISCLOSURE of information that the FTC feels is important for anyone to have in making the decision about Amway, was not in our kit. When we asked our Sponsor about it, he referred to it as the "wimp clause". I will send a letter to the FTC informing them that certain Amway distributors do not feel that they must comply with this LAW.

Our (former) sponsor is with the Wilson group, when I asked him about "the system" and exactly how much money he earned from it, he was very cagey and told me he had "no way of knowing exactly, but certainly not more than 30%". And he is only a direct founder (qualified direct or Q12, I think it is called).

Anyway, again I must thank you for your web page. My husband and I have earned solid reputations as honest, ethical, and moral people. These are not qualities we want questioned or sullied by an unsavory association (Bill Clinton should read this!!)

Please keep up the good work...thank God for the First Amendment!

I'm sorry, I don't even know your first name. I've read through the majority of the information on your web page, including a lot of legal ease, and my reaction at this point is disappointment.

Let me explain: My husband and I were approached by a man who is on the board of directors for a company that my husband works for. We have a lot of respect for this person and therefore agreed to meet with him and his wife when they requested a meeting with us to discuss "an opportunity to increase our annual income". My usuband and I consider ourselves to be relatively sophisticated, well-educated people and knew going in that this was probably a network marketing organization of some sort.

Well, we signed up even though there were a lot of unanswered questions and significant gray areas as to how this thing REALLY works. We also figured out immediately that this was really not a system of selling retail products to non distrubutors, it is a system of making money from your own consumption of catalog items and the consumption of those in your downline. Well, I don't have a problem with that, per se, except that no one could explain how this all adds up to millions of dollars earned? The point system is so convoluted and confusing you can't sit down with a calculator to determine the path to success.

We were told that it really works, our sponsors are very successful (at least in their non Amway ventures) and we were instructed to just trust their guidance. My husband and I have already determined that the bulk of the profits made in this industry are made by and through the tapes, books and tools.

We purchased the kit at $165 because we were told that it contained Amway products worth $140 and so we figured we had nothing to lose. The products included have a "true" value (if I went to the grocery store and purchased like kind and quantity) of maybe $80. We have not purchased any thing else at this point and we are attending our first rally tomorrow, our sponsor paid for the tickets.

After hours of due diligence, I have concluded that my worst fears have been confirmed and the old adage, "If it looks to good too be true, it probably is" keeps coming to mind. Thankfully, we don't have much invested so this hasn't been too expensive. Despite the fact that we were lied to from the onset, because of the business relationship that my husband has with our sponsor, we will not demand a reimbursement of our initial investment; that would be political suicide for his real paying job.

My question, if you are able to respond: Is there a way to make a decent income (we really are only looking for supplemental income as I am a self- employed-out-of-the-home mom) with Amway strictly on the wholesale-retail side? Is there a legitimate business in all of this somewhere or should we cut our losses and consider this a lesson well learned?

In closing, I must add that if I ever had any advice to give to someone considering any venture, similar or otherwise, it would be to trust your instincts and your first impression, I mean, why do they spend so much time teaching new recruits how to get around the question"Is this Amway?" if its such a great thing?

Thanks for your time.

For your site. This comment is from your November email. The data I submit here is quite solid and your analysis of success back it up.

> If you would like to send me facts and statistics, I'll
> be happy to post them.

Based on your own statistic that .84% will become direct.

If I show the plan to about 120 people you will sponsor a direct. So, if I show the plan 360 times I have a 100% chance of becoming an Emerald Direct. I tell folks that you will be financially independent at about 500 plans. It takes somewhere between 500-1000 plans to become a Diamond Direct (there are some variables that even your stats don't account for so I am shooting on the high side to be fair). I have talked to numerous Diamonds that verify this - some with all their calanders. I have never had anyone dispute this. The statistics, based on your own data, back it up. Hope you post this on your site. I have more if you are interested.

I used the same kind of stats years ago. I even knew how much I was earning for each "NO" I received :)

I came across your web page and thought how interesting it was. After being a Distributor for over a year in 95', I learned a lot about the business and how it operates. I have no ill regards to the people I call friends who are still in the business and I wish them the best of luck. I am writing this email message to a particular person who said it was "Un-Christian like" to be in Amway. Well, first of all, I am a Christian and I saw nothing wrong with being in Amway, and neither was my mother, who is probably the most religious person I have EVER met!

To make it in any business, one needs to set goals, no matter what kind of business you par take in.

If you are going towards opening a Computer Business, you need to set guidelines, so everyday when you wake up, you are able to find that one thing that makes you want to go to work., because I speak for A LOT OF PEOPLE when I say that if I did not get paid to go to work, I certainly would not go back to my job, but instead, find a new job where I would get paid. Your are right, money does not by happiness, but I can not pay bills with FAITH alone. When it comes to placing pictures of CARS and nice HOMES up and on our refridgerators, what is the difference between these pictures and your pictures of Jesus or crosses?

Are these not things we believe in. I believe in myself, and my abilities to make this world better for not only me but for my wife and future kids. Has the author of this web page mentioned the fact that Amway gives to A LOT of charities. Were they not giving to those who lived in a certain area that had a major earthquake last year? That is what I thought, yet another person who is believing in second hand information, and swearing by it, as it were said by God himself!

And, for anyone who was thinking about getting involved with Amway but thought against it after coming to this "Unbiased" web page, I hope you never think of investing in securities, because a lot of people call that risky too, or starting a conventional business. Hey! Author, what is the success rate for someone who starts their own business, like a video store, or dry cleaning business. I think it's like less than 5%!

So, if you do not research a business, how can you stand by the claims of someone you never met?

And to any person who says Amway is illegal, look at this website and you might find out that this company has been around way to long to have missed being investigated by the F.T.C. Matter of fact, they were, and are they not still in BUSINESS? ( Oh! Yes they are, baby!)

True, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the amount of money you can make, but trying is half the battle.

Plus, you will never no until you try. Matter of fact, why don't you keep playing the LOTTERY and Dreaming of what will never happen. It seems to be apparent that all you people who just don't like Amway will always have your opinion, and you are entitled to those opinions but at least do some digging for hard facts to back those ill-filled opinions. While your at it,

I hope you enjoy wasting 75,000 hours of your life working for someone else.( starting at around 25-30 years old, work 40 hours a week, each and every week, for the next 40 years until you retire at age 65!, oh! I forgot, good ol' uncle sam wants to raise the retirement age to 70!)

My name is *. and I am currently an Amway distributor. I know that with this type of business people have reservations about the hype, marketing tool expenses, tapes, etc, but let me ask you a question...If you played for a professional sports team, let's say the Chicago Bulls for example, and you were playing with Michael Jordan, he has had a great deal of success correct? Of, course...If you had the opportunity to learn what he did to become successful would you and wouldn't you try to follow it to the best of your ability? Though I know that not everyone can succeed in business whether it's Amway or opening a traditional business. I feel my best opportunity is running the best Amway business that I can. Are there distributors that take advantage of people, I'm sure there are...but judge those people for what they do, not the rest of us who try our best to help others reach their financial goals, while helping them we help ourselves...Is Amway easy..No! But I don't have to buy tapes, videos, go to meetings, functions, etc, etc, unless I want to...Maybe my upline is different than the one you had or others you know, but just as in any other business you have good and bad people. I feel I'm with a good group of people and when done properly and ethically...the Amway business can be a positive business. If you have a better vehicle or opportunity to offer the people who read your site what is it? I made an informed decision to start my business with Amway, by looking at overhead, potential, public demand and feelings both good and bad...I did a survey that found most people had a neutral to positve feeling about Amway...Amway is not about the products, tapes, functions to me anyway. It's about the posibility of succeeding with the help of people who stand together and help each other...My team is associated with Bill Britt, and Dave Taylor. My direct upline has a Ruby, Emerald, two directs and my sponser is about 4,000pv. I have not bought a lot of products, been to many functions, an am not on standing order or AMVOX, but when I choose to include myself in the group they welcome me as if I was always there. They don't look down on me or harrass me...they ask me where I want to go and how can they help me get there at my own pace...IF IT'S MEANT TO BE IT'S UP TO ME! That was not said to me by an Amway distributor, but by a lady who I shortly worked for at Homesafe an ADT dealer...They placed an ad in a newspaper for a manager position and when I went into an interview I specifically told the person I did not want a sales position...He told me that they were looking for managers not salespeople...After training for a week or so, I was told I had to be a sales person first...They lied to me and that is a JOB as you know and they are not all honest or 100% for the employee!! Does that mean we should all leave our JOB's or stop working because of one bad experience...Mind you there were a lot of other people who were told the same thing...I got out and found another JOB...I have a dream of making money and helping other people reach whatever dreams they have...Charles I understand that I am taking a risk by pursuing my business through Amway, but a traditional business is also risky if not more so...overhead, lifesavings etc...done correctly and with some luck it can happen...The possibility of reaching a dream is of course why we try to do better no matter what we are doing or pursuing...People play the lottery all of the time, but the chances of them winning are less than that of becoming successful in business, Amway or otherwise...I wish you good luck and hope you can see that Amway is an ethical business just as much as Microsoft, IBM, Ford, Etc Etc...but's it is the people who build a business who are at fault...My upline in my experience is positive and motivational...I would rather be around someone who told me You can do it! rather than you can't do it! If they help me reach my dreams and they reach theirs also...great...I don't pay my upline for their time...efforts...or teachings...but I know they are their for me when I need them...

Good Luck in your Future...

Thanks for your info and thats of info. Its very, very, very helpful. I was also ripped off by ex-uplines Direct and Diamond under the sponsorship of Network 21 (Jim and Nancy Dornan). Firstly the ex-Diamond upline was an Australian called Simon Thompson (married to Malaysia) and working his Amway business ILLEGALLY in Malaysia. He is supported by another Diamond called Peter Cox. However they were temporarily shut down for a while after being investigated by the Govt. of Malaysia but now they are out to swindle people again. I was told those Amway and N21 bigshots intervene. If you are interested to have an ex-Amway story from Malaysia, please e-mail me. I achieved between 15%-18% in 4 months with about 18f/l and total of 120 d/l. I have records to prove. Every month I was receiving bonus cheque of RM1500 but my net income was -RM800 loss because of the AMO. THank God because of the Govt of Malaysia intervention, being idle for 1 month, nothing to do, I accidentally came across Sidney's REVELATION. Saved my marriage and fortune. Thanks

I'm sorry that your expirence was not a successful one. I ,as you say, got "in" the first week of September and have accomplished the DD level in 4 1/2 months. It's everything I was told it would be, including the work! My sponsor has been very forward with all information and I thank him for it. Good luck with your web page.

> > If I show the plan to about 120 people you will sponsor a direct. So, if I show
> > the plan 360 times I have a 100% chance of becoming an Emerald Direct. I tell
> > folks that you will be financially independent at about 500 plans. It takes
> > somewhere between 500-1000 plans to become a Diamond Direct (there are some
> > variables that even your stats don't account for so I am shooting on the high
> > side to be fair). I have talked to numerous Diamonds that verify this - some
> > with all their calanders. I have never had anyone dispute this. The statistics,
> > based on your own data, back it up. Hope you post this on your site. I have more
> > if you are interested.
> Yeah I would be interested. As long as you also tell me YOUR stats.
> How long have you been in?

About 3 years.

> How many plans have YOU shown.

About 230 - I keep a separate list on this. And, I rely on it while counseling. My first 100 or so were not that great. My first 7 plans I sponsored no one.... great hu!

> How many have you sponsored? How many active--inactive?

Personally, 16. Three legs showing up for everything. Maybe 2 more legs will gel. After a year and a half, I will be adding 3 more active legs over the next couple months.

> What's the size of
> your organization?

Focused on depth points at 50 distributorships - have not counted for a while. Probably less then 100. My tape count would be an indicator - right at 60 but many more sponsored. This is a question subject to who is active. I have about 4 people "doing it". You need 5 to be direct.

> It's one thing for a diamond to SAY it can be done. It's totally
> different to actually accomplish it.

What's your point. You have to use the data of the HUNDREDS of folks that have gone diamond to verify the data - would you agree? Besides, you don't have to SAY it can be done - folks are doing it EVERY MONTH.

> I remember tapes (from Britt
> diamonds) telling me that there have been people who have gotten over
> 100 consecutive NO's before sponsoring ONE person.

My sponsor rate is very good. Never have gone more than about 3-4 without sponsoring someone - width and depth. Why not diamond in two years you ask? Have it good now, real good - I won't bore you with the details but I work a couple hours a day out of my home and have for 6 years. Amway, for us is the next step - would like others to have what I have.

I do agree with your site in one respect - I think the sponsor rate for many would be better if they would be totally honest. I even give folks, second night, emails from your, and many other negative sites. If it blows them out they are not hungry anyway. Hurts sometimes - I know what this can do for them and many times its the folks that need it that say no.....

> Don't give me the crap that 1000pv wannbe did from Chile. He lied so
> badly it smelled all the way to the U.S.

I don't have a clue of what you are talking about. But, there was a couple, in their 60's that just went Diamond in 11 1/2 months - lives an hour from ADA, MI. And, this thing is just gearing up.

> Give me your statistics for
> last month...not what you goals are for the future.

Showed a massive 2 plans. Sponsored no one. The month before, showed 1 plan sponsored 1. Hold 4-6K PV.

Not sure why I gave you all these details. But the reason I emailed in the first place is to find out why folks get so bitter. It's ashamed. Keep up the work, it will make it better for the ones that understand..... When Amway hits 30 billion or so, you guys will probably still be there - won't matter any more then, then now (for growth anyway - you will definitely hurt many that this would have worked for if they would not have visited your site - many more than you would have "saved").

Take care,

PS. You can figure the numbers on how many plans you have to show. Fact is: you can hit a direct every so many plans - your data backs that. So, you do the numbers and post it. I will look in from time to time. Different from anything out there - if you do the work in Amway - you win.... There is no competition.

Love the new look of your home page!! My particular favorite is the dog and what he's doing to the 2-5 year plan!!

Way to go...this gets better all the time!

I've written to some of the other Amway expose' sites and have read yours with great interest. I'm a numbers person by nature and I appreciate the effort you have put into giving facts.

After a few months with a telecom MLM (not Excel), I was approached by an Amway rep. Get this, an Excel rep actually gave me advice to go check out Sidney's now censored site. BTW, I think it's a fitting result that if Amway allegedly pressured Sid, that the mirror sites would pop up. Take that Amway!

After reading through his material, I came to the realization that I was turning into a real jerk about "my success." I started treating my relatives with scorn for not "supporting my dream." I'm not that type of person, and if MLM had that type of effect on me, then there was something dreadfully wrong.

I ended up going to an Amway open, just to see if it was like what the internet sites describe. The Ruby who presented for INA started out telling how nice it was that he could take a week vacation without having to worry about getting back to work. His 12 hour weeks have all of his old friends jealous with his success... yada yada yada. About 45 minutes before the A word, the attention getting mistakes showing the compensation plan (which he later admitted to me "well I really do know those numbers, but I do that to get people's attention). My potential sponsor insisted that we shake his hand after the meeting because it was such a privilege. What a crock.

My potential sponsor worked at a very high level in a major computer company. His wife is one of the top PA's in a highly respected consulting company. They are already pulling in probably $150K a year between them. And yet they still do Amway. He mentioned "buying back his time" as the main incentive. I'm sure that his company would gladly give him a lot more time (e.g. give him the boot) if they knew that he uses company trips for prospecting.

BTW, a few months ago, I was walking my dog in a nearby neighborhood. Houses were one- or two- story with price tags around $200K (This is in a mostly rental area where prices range up to $350-450K). I heard a guy call out from his driveway "Hey, that's a really pretty dog." For the next few minutes, I couldn't figure out where I'd heard his voice and seen his face before. Then I remembered... it was the Amway Ruby from that meeting. The house was a one-story, mildly beaten up with a yard in disrepair. He had a small motorboat, one nice car (which he drove to the meetings) and a few junkers. If that was the extent of his "freedom," he can have his 12 hour weeks.

One last thought to leave you with. A lot of Amborgs cut down the people who write to these sites about the pain they had gone through with the "business." Yet Ambots continue to believe in the testimonials of the miniscule percentage of people who have succeeded. Why does one set of information seem much more believable than another? Which group would you expect to be more honest? I'm willing to bet that the people who lost money are far more willing to show you where the money went. But I'd like to see ANY Amway rep who makes a ton of money to show us where the money came from.

Still no Amway Schedule C's? Hmmm, wonder why...

I try to walk my dog around the Ruby's house often to "make deposits." I figure my dog is giving back what Amway was trying to give me.

finding your site was very enlightening. i am not the only one who has lasting damage from the Ambots. husband comes home demanding that i attend a business presentation with him, won't tell what it is. i kept saying, it sounds like amway but i cant believe you'd go for that. to humor him i went. long story short--the britt system played into husband's incredible need for ego gratification and recognition. because i had a young child at home i refused to go out every night, causing constant conflict. hubby (we'll call him "peckerhead") is going out 6 nights a week until 1 or 2 in the morning (the 'winners' stay out late, drinking coffee at shoneys and refining ways to not tell prospects it's amway). must do 100% personal use. a box of cereal in our house from the grocery store causes bloodshed. the kid is sick. order cough medicine from "the business" and wait 2 weeks for it to come in? i dont THINK so. more bloodshed. no money because of constant orders and tapes, functions that were really religious tent meetings, etc., so he wants me to quit my job and "go full-time amway" which means sell soap. eventually his upline, to whom he went for marriage counselling, told him to flush me, because i was holding him back. when he told me it was amway or the highway, i left. punch line -- aforementioned upline (an emerald) had his wife leave him a week after i split for the same reason. i cant begin to express the pain of three years of fighting the system, and i truly believe this is a cult playing into people's need to belong to something they feel is important. anyone direct level or above is cognizant of this. people who destroy families while mouthing family values are evil. so frequently, functions preach that women, who are the most likely to complain about the loss of family time, money and unity, must be "handled" so that their "negativity"won't pollute the business. and in cult fashion, of course all family is expendable if they don't support the dream. i am sad for so many people who have no idea what they are really signing up for. happy ending--though painful at the time, amway did me a favor. i am now very happily married to a very successful man. we make ALL the money we want to make. and our friends and families don't hide from us! Peckerhead was last seen in a white shirt and red tie, head down on a busy street, writing in a little notebook. he has not, to my knowlege, gone pyrite yet.

For the record- I am an Amway HATER!

I have a question.- Was there ever any TV news shows(20/20, 60 minutes..etc) that had done any stories on Amway??- I would be interested to know if anyone knows of any and how to obtain them. If there are no known stories- Why???- Seems like enough of an issue- Help!I Thanks

Thought you might find this interesting. It is a letter to the Federal Trade Commission from Amway asking them to exempt "business opportunities" from consideration for rule changes, when the startup cost is less than $1000.


When I first learned about how Directs were making money from the sale of tools, I talked to my upline Emerald. He asked me that if I bought a bunch of anything, should I be entitled to a "volume discount"? Since this is what Amway is based upon (at least from the sale of products), I agreed. He then said that if I were to buy a large number of books, should I get a discount from the publisher. Again, I agreed. He then asked if I were to buy a large of number of tapes, hould I get a discount off the retail price? Again, yes. Therefore, since the Directs "buy so many tapes," then can get a discount and then resell the tapes for retail price, thus pocketing the difference. When I asked why, my emerald said that this was the way the directs re-cooped their expenses of building the business to that level. (And all along I though the Emerald-level bonuses paid by Amway would "re-coop their losses". Guess the Emeralds don't make as much as they used to-- even they need to supplement their income.)

The bottom line is that an emerald dist. ADMITTED that directs make money off the sale of tools.

You don't have to post my letter. My 22 year old son got involved in Amway 1 1/2 year ago. Although he refuses to see the facts, it is ruining his life. 2 months ago he left his wife and baby daughter. She's tired of being ignored 7 nights a week. He's in the Army full time and also delivers pizzas 2-3 nights a week to support his habit. I have heard the most incredibly stupid remarks from him. We are all losers with welfare mentality, her family also. I began to do my own research and even though I am not in Amway I did MLM for a while so I know how it works. My son has been brainwashed. He thinks now this is God's will for his life. We (his family) are doing everything we can to get him out. I can tell from the things I have seen on the net from others. They ARE telling the truth on what a scam this business has become over the years. How do I know? My son says the same things. He's core to the max. He loses money every month even though he denies it. In fact he denies everything even the fact that his daughter needs him now.(He can spend time with her later) At 19 months old it has already affected her greatly. I live 3000 miles from my son but I know who he was and what he has become. It's ugly. His DD is Larry Winters. The guy that sucked him into this is younger than he and a master maniplutator. Any advice on how to get someone out? We are trying to get him transferred off of the East Coast. He refuses counseling. It's hard to get the Army to help. We have gone to Congress and the Senate. We are not giving up but I sure am getting tired and I wish Amway would fall off the face of this earth. First he was in it to be rich, now he's in it to evanglize the world. Seems he sees hundreds come to Christ at Amway functions. He is being taught things that are not scripturally correct or sound but he refuses to look at any other point of view. Amway loves him sooo much more than we his family do. I know his upline told him to dump his wife. His conditions are he'll come back if she supports his business. She did for a while but since Larry Winters tells them that vacations are for losers, etc. etc. she finally got fed up. I know that Amway knows what's going on and they look the other way obviously. The whole thing just makes me sick. He was doing so well in his life till he met Amway. I am looking for any advice, avenues to take etc. Oh yeah - the internet is evil, I guess if I was trying to do the deception game I wouldn't want my people looking at all the Amway stuff either. Right now I am so angry with him for his total ignorance that I would just say do it and let him figure it out for himself, but it is my darling granddaughter that I am concerned about. So because of her I can't give up. Thanks for listening. God Bless - Cinde


> Almost everyone knows of someone who 'tried' Amway and failed. My
> experience has been that they either got involved in an unethical
> system, or they put no effort into the business.

OBSERVATION: Over 99% of distributors get nowhere.

CONCLUSION: 99% of the distributors who do try are involved in an unethical system.

COROLLARY: The other 1% ARE the unethical system.