Site Visitor E-Mail Oct 2007

I was employed by a major manufacturing facility whose president(and his wife) were also an IBO for Quixtar. I came to learn that all of our personal corporate purchases were given to their Quikstar IBO without any price or itemization controls. The company president, although obliged by policy to solicit competitive bids, ordered Quiktar products exclusively...including premium items such as sport drinks and supplements. He always used his personal credit card and was reimbursed without proper documentation.I brought this practice to the attention of my vice president, and was terminated within days of the revelation. I have filed a breach of contract lawsuit for the termination, but the purchasing practice continues as the president is also a major shareholder within the corporate structure. Is this legal....and whom can I contact to gain a better understanding?? Hope you can help...

Jack and Pam Koka were among the first from the large East Indian Community here to get a "big pin"

Now it looks like he is "selling cars". I am sure I use to hear on those WWDB tapes that once you were Emerald you were RETIRED.... SET FOR LIFE.

For the record I met Jack on several occasions and he truly was a good guy and from what I saw of Pam her down line was very fond of her. SoI doubt, its not like they lost their business ( assuming they have lost their business) due to anything improper they might have done.

We had dinner with friends of ours who are currently in the former Team5K in Michigan. They have been in the business for about 5-6 years.

We typically dont talk about the business at all since we quit back in 2003 after about 1 year. They had planned to have her retire after about 18mos in, but she is still working. They actually have the work ethic and personality to be as good as possible in this business, but clearly they arent retired diamonds yet, which is what you are told you will be after 5 years of the effort they have given.

We somehow ran across an ad for Nutrilite in an Oprah magazine, and a brief conversation ensued. Apparently Amway is pouring 500million into advertising for Nurtrilite. Isnt that the money that Amway is supposed to be passing onto its IBOs. I thought that was one of the main selling points for the business (we dont need to spend money on ads, so the $$$ are passed on to the IBOs).

I went on to mention hearing that Chuck Goetschel (former heard of Team 5K) left the business (I think you posted his resignation letter to his team). When I mentioned that, they scoffed and said he was kicked out for being immoral (cheated on his wife/got a divorce) and was part of the IBOs making too much off of tools. I thought that was funny becuase he was idolized for quite some time. Suddenly he is immoral and a terrible human being.

That took us to the group of IBO board members that recently "left" the business. I mentioned what I thought were the reasons (per your site), and they scoffed again, saying that those IBOs were greedy and were kicked out. Im not sure how someone can just take away a business from someone becuase they were greedy. They also referenced a proposed law suit (which they said was deemed meritless in CA immediately) as a reason for their dismissal. When I refererced the term Independent Business Owner, they said is was actually a partership with Amway. It is funny how fast the company line is absorbed and spewed out with such ease.

They went on to say that the Nutrilite stuff was quite competitively priced (a response to my comments about top IBOs demanding competitive pricing), and that we should go to the site and request a free bar.

Anyway, I thought I would get your perspective on this side of things. Obviously, when I mentioned getting my information from the internet, they once again scoffed and immediately dismissed anything negative found there as trash. I pointed out that it was not editorialized material, merely a clearinghouse of articles and first hand accounts.

Thanks for keeping up this site. I have never been allowed (by my wife) to site any documents on it to them, but would like to. Despite their intelligence, they are incapable of refuting factual information, merely dismissing it as the ramblings of disgruntled ex-IBOs.

G'day Scott

I read your emails and information on the site regarding Amway.

I WAS BITTEN BY the Amway bug, in 1999 to 2000, I was shown the plan and circles by my Doctor. I actually went to see him for help as I was a returned serviceman from a conflict e few years earlier.

My daughter was in hospital at the time she was born premature at a weight of 680 grams. {she only lasted four months then passed away}.

I have had a few children sadly they have all passed away.

My upline constantly pushed me to show plans, instead of spending time at the hospital with my daughter. It put strain on my relationship and psychologically destroyed me post giving it all away.

I showed 365 plans in 8 months, signed up over 45 people all never did a thing with it, I spent 23 thousand dollars Australian in 9 months on tolls, functions, products and money not paid back by downlines. I lost friends, and a job due to this business/cult.

My relationship was destroyed!

But most importantly that time I should have spent with my daughter in the hospital was wasted due to the influence of my upline,my family GP who I believed as he was a DR.

I was misled, lied to and exploited which destroyed me as a person. I cannot get the time back that I should have spent with my family.

a warning to all who are influenced by this business, spend time with your family as you will never be able to get back the time you should spend with them, you dont know what the future holds, do not take forgranted what you have. You would be better off putting the money into your home loan, use the equity to purchase investment property, it will bring you the same wealth and you wont lose your family, friends or your job in the process.

Richard from down under in Australia.

I know of an Emerald IBO couple named Rob and Kenyon Robson who have been in the top 25 of sponsoring for quixtar for over 4 different quarters and also have had their downline been in the top 25 as well. They were so successful that quixtar put them on their advertising site as a profile of success. you can see them at http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/robson_success.html . Although Rob and Kenyon Robson had been so successful, living free from a job for 7 years using quixtar as a supplier, they have now resigned from quixtar this year. They did this because of the high prices of quixtar, changing the name back to amway, and the false representaion that the IBO board had any power. They felt they had been lying to people all these years that the field of IBO's had control over their business paln, instead of being controled as property of quixtar.

Hey dude, I was surfing for the latest info on a couple of these diamonds leaving the business and I came across your site. Nice, but you must be a multi millionaire or something, because it seems to me like you have way too much time on your hands to be researching all this crap.

Answer the question or I know you are full of crap. Oh and one more thing. Do you have any suggestions as to what I can do to make some extra money?

I applaud your website for giving some info about Quixtar/IBO business practices. I was an IBO for around 6-8 months, because I was in the military, going to school, trying to get ahead. There was a fellow student just starting in the Business, who got me started. The idea of having my own business, spending just a few hours a week appealed to me. To tell you the truth the plan as I saw it, got my attention, and I think to this day to be a good plan for those people who get in the business to share and experience, make new friends and make some money doing it. but then came the other stuff. Little things started to get to me first like; do not talk to other IBO's in other groups, or do not ask an outside person about financial freedom, etc. Then it came Ambox, or the voice mail service you "must" have in order to communicate effectively among your team.

Scott, I am a Sytems Analyst dealing with data every day, and my team refused to use any other way of communcation. One day I was working, and received a call from my upline that I needed to clear my mailbox cause it was full.

It was lunch. I told her I could not until after lunch ,,,there was the first fight. then the business tools, that my team told me I had to be on them so I can learn the business. After a few boxes of them, and a few hundred of tapes, I started asking questions. Then one of the Platinum and the Diamond decided to start their own business by making copies of tapes and selling them to us. Thats when I call it quits. I lost or invested around 800$ trying to make a business of selling tapes and books of people repeating the same thing. But I learned a lesson. I went to school, retired and now make good money without having to loose any nights, or trying to convince people that in order to succeed they need to buy a bunch of Tapes and books instead of spending time selling the products themselves.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

1st of all thanks for the work on this site. I was in Amway from 1980-1997, and then Quixtar from 2003-2006. I always thought my inability to build the business was exlusively my fault, but over time I noticed that very few people changed pins.

In March 2006 I read "Merchants of Deception" and it sent chills down my spine. It was as though a veil had been lifted and I was finally able to "connect the dots" on all the misgivings I had over the years.

There were always snippets here and there of things that didn't make sense, or that I WANTED to believe my upline about, but had a question in the back of my mind. When I read Eric's book it all crystalized and I realized the sad reality that Alticor was picking my left pocket with their pricing structure and Britt was picking my other pocket with the tool system. For months I was incredibly sad. Deep down I had WANTED to believe - and it hurt to learn that the "dream" was really a fairy tale.

But I digress. The main reason I am writing is that I just read on the Quixstar Wiki for Larry Winters (I think it was in the discussion section) that he intends to leave in Jan 08 to start his own MLM. I have absolutely no information beyond that, and my source is, exclusely, that Wiki entry. But it would make sense. These guys have everything riding on their tool system and from the UK experience it's becoming clear that, after 35 years, Amway has finally "grown a pair" and intends to stop this obscene tools gravy train.

Hello this is Matt and I am writing this message concerning Amway and Quixtar, also the opportunity and really everything involving the business. Just a quick background about me. I am a 22 year old student that attends Temple University. I was introduced by the business in the summer of 2004. I got excited right away because I was approached by a highschool friend and got around DC International which was associated with BWW untill recently when John Crowe,Rex Renfrow and David Dussualt among some other leaders broke away and started UR Association. Now right away I will agree with you that some motivational organizations or teams as I will call them are not that good and don't approach the business of team building and personally wouldn't be a part of. Now after 3 months back in 2004 I left the business. I might be one of the few people that will admit now, not then, that I left because I didn't work the business right. I got in listened to the tapes, read the books and attended the functions but never showed the plan, etc. I will admit that the books and the cd's really have helped me on a personal and business level. To this day I still listen to tapes and cd's from UR Association. Some of them include John Crowe, Brad Duncan and Greg Duncan ( those two aren't in UR Association). For me they have helped grow and have helped me become a better person, more motivated in business and in life and help me set goals and keep me focused on what I am doing whatever it may be.

Now to why I am writing. It's funny when I left the business I did start to get negative and shortly after saw your website, saw and talked to Bo Short and after looking at your site I came to realize some things. I respect your opinion and believe that everyone is different and have no problem with ur opinions. To be honest I do agree with some of the things on your site but with UR Association which I feel has set themselves from the rest of the motivational organizations. In UR Assoication there is my best friend who is a Platium in 2 years, My highschool teacher and coach who is a Founder's Emerald in 3 and 1/2 years and a few others I personally know how are doing well in the business. With the new bonuses like the 150 k at founder's emerald and 500 k at founder's diamond I do believe that there is money in the plan more then every. I do agree that the 8-12 hrs a week for 2-5 years is misrepresented. UR Association is very transparent and do say that to build a diamondship in 5 years you will have to work 5-6 nights a week and actually have changed how the tool money is given, which they are upfront about. I'm not here to make a pitch for UR Assocation I'm just saying I do believe there is an organization out there that is changing the problems that faced amway back in the day. I'll stop about that but there are many things UR Assocation has changed once they got started which is why they left BWW.

What I can't understand really is with the way the job world is today and seeing it all the time between family, friends and random people, there is no security in jobs these days. I work as a waiter and hear all the time people complaining about being laid off or how they have no money,etc. Ill wait to hear what you think about what i've said so far but have you heard of UR Association and what do you think of John Crowe and the Dussualts.

Just read this one today and felt that I had similar experiences. Although I did not go out with a bang and burn all my bridges after 3 years of working it, I do feel glad I left and moved on with life to try out other avenues.

Since I left (2005), I have replaced the circles with rental houses instead of people and I now feel like I am truly living the american dream. I have reached a level of financial freedom to where I do not need to work a job, and I don't. Better even, I am teaching others to do the same thing I am doing and watching their lives progress as well.

I have also since, been in contact with some of the authors that Britt World Wide promotes, and now instead of being the one who only reads the books, I am now writing the books WITH the authors as well as practicing what the teach in daily life. My wife now can attest to the difference in our plan NOW vs the quixtar plan THEN. I feel we have SO MUCH more time and money together now that I don't have to go out and find people and cater to them. Now I just put up an ad for vacancies, and have renters come to me…(they ring the phone off the hook!)…I then pass them onto my property manager who takes it from there, and I continue the picnic with my wife.

If you are interested, I kept a journal through those years and would like to compile something for your website. Maybe it would be a help to others looking into the business??

As a former IBO in the INA organization under the Jones line of sponsorship, it is my opinion that besides the fact that Quixtar/Amway is making rule changes that affect these big wig earnings - There is also the fact of the side business of the real pyramid scheme at hand; the tool income they are losing. I find it very ironic that all these guys are quitting now that the rules have changed and their tools income is drying up. How come no one is talking about that anymore? That was the true pyramid scheme before the prices and org structures started benig discussed at legnth. These guys are losing their asses in tools income. That's truly why they want out. Sure, they blame the company, but if the companies decisions didn't affect their tools incomes, they would make all necessary changes that the company wanted in order to not lose their pyramid scheming tools money. These guys make me sick. All the lies.

Thanks for all your time and effort with the site. I am a former IBO turned critic. I was recently speaking with a semi active IBO who attended an IDA FEC in Australia. She reported that the event this year only spanned 1 Saturday in only 1 location and contained no entertainment. In her estimation there was only about 5000 attendees which is much lower than many previous years. She also commented that the ticket price did not come down compared with the reduced format. The last FEC I attended in 2002 easily had 8000 attendees in one location only with a second held the following weekend.

Check out the Quixtar site. Looks like they don't need the IBO's anymore! You can now buy products without going through a distributor. WOW! Once again, they are changing the rules without the any input from the IBO's.

While reading the emails , there was mention that the Hotel bookings for a conference put up by BWW or any other group through BWW was more expensive than actually booking one yourself.

Since I still have my status as an IBO. I logged on the BWW site for the 2008 Winter conference in Toronto and found out

Whereas for the same Date when I wnent on to the DoubleTree International Plaza the cost was 109.00 CAD.. why the $ 7.00 upcharge for a GROUP Booking.

I had questioned an IBO from the Aruna & Tilaka group here in Toronto who was trying to promote this conference and mentioned that

Also he was under the impression that group booking was cheaper than booking yourself. I guess he was brain washed as usual.

Scott,

My husband was constantly called for more than 6 months about a business proposition, nothing else was said. We were even being approched at church and I say this because as soon as we were signed on we never saw the couple again in any of the services. Finally after more than 6 months my husband said let's just meet this person at the coffee shop it will only be about 30-45 minutes so he can stop calling me. We met at the coffee shop and were given energy bars, energy drinks some of the products right away. Well the man was so enthusiastic everything out of his mouth was positive and the wife just went along with how great everything was and how she loves all the make-up products . He explained the pipeline"your here if you sign up now this could be you earning $ for retirement, fancy trips a life of luxury, or you can be on the side lines and everyone else coming in will be of course, ahead of you in the pipeline. You don't wan't to miss out, he insisted. Well my husband signed on I was very hesitant but I thought okay let see what will happen in a couple of months. We paid the registration of $220, we received motivational CD's a couple of books. Next we were hit with a surprise $46 a month on monthly fees, $10 every meeting we attended which talked about the same thing about how they made their millions and now have beautiful homes as they eat their energy bars and drinks. Next we were hit with a fee of $338 for a motivational conference for members who are diamonds in the IBO business, this according to him was important for success and space was limited. We have now spent more than $1500.00 and our huge profit has been A $16 check. I can only say that next time I will follow my instinct. I showed my husband this web site which I wish I had only come across sooner. He know sees what I have been trying to tell him. I am greatful that I did not get any of my friends or family members involved in this mess otherwise I would have felt a tremendous amount of guilt. This man sure did try and was constantly calling us to make appointments with everyone we knew. It was literally running my life everything revolved areound calling people having meetings going to meetings. I did not have time for anything else. hope this information will help others. I won't mention our names because I am so embarrased that we got involved in this scam, "Not Amway, that's another company, " in the first place. I will no longer spend any more $ in this business.

Thanks Scott for this web site

I joined a very large pharmaceutical company as a sales representative upon graduating from BYU in 1990. By 1995 I had been through the proverbial ringer. I had a boss that was as tactful as a bull in a china shop. He did things that now I look back in retrospect I could have sued that company and retired on the settlement they would have to have offered me. For example, one time during a field ride together, he took a bottle of samples of an anti-depressant handed to me and told me I needed to go on this medicine. Can you imagine the heyday a lawyer would have with him and the company's executive to learn wether dispensing medical advice to employees was part of the job description at this company? This is only one of many things. While there this same boss was charged with sexual harassment and later on, after I had left the company, one of the reps reporting to him, somebody I worked side-by-side with for years, put a gun to his head and ended his own life. In his suicide letter he left everything to his parents and said that he had worked so hard for those things, may be "too" hard.

As I am struggling to keep my wits about me with this J O B, out of nowhere, one of my physicians, the one you would least expect, calls me up and wants to introduce me to a new business. I smelled Amway from a distance but since this was a good client for my regular pharmaceutical business, I entertained the man and bought a kit from him. I had been in Amway a few years earlier when somebody from church promised me that he would build the business under me, which he did for a while. The way he was doing it is called stacking, where you build depth by sponsoring people under people who don't even know each other. It is illegal and was a disaster and I quit shortly thereafter. Incidentally, the second time around, my upline diamond was Marshall Douglas, my upline emerald was Alan Shreckengost, and my upline pearl was Bill (I forget his name). Immediately above me was a fellow by the name of Mike Dunway. I worked in Jacksonville, Florida. After joining, the doctor started dragging me to to the Thursday night meetings, I thought it odd that I had to pay $5.00 to enter but I kept going. Soon enough they got me "plugged in." I was buying my own products, although they were more expensive than I could find in stores; I was listening to tapes, attending functions and reading books. I still have those books. Suddenly, I go from having a boss that badgers me all of the time to hanging around people who are constantly telling me how great I am and that I can do anything that I put my faith into. All of a sudden, I am feeling validated and despite a very strong born again christian upline, the basic principles of the business resonated enough with my own Mormon religion.

As I started got deeper into the system, I started to hear things like, "you will never get ahead in life by trading time for money." And about the importance of doing something productive with my down time and that the only way to be truly financially free was to have a residual income. Bottom line, make other people's time and other people's money work for you. I am really buying into this but despite being a successful pharmaceutical representative, I am terrified of talking about the business with anyone. I collect a lot of contacts but am afraid of following up. Then, one day, my pharmaceutical company boss is in my company car and sees a bottle of children's acetaminophen, Amway brand. He starts quizzing me whether I was doing the business. I told him I was and he basically told me that I had to choose between the company and Amway. When I called him to let him know I chose the company, he threatened me that he was going to make me work so hard to the point where "I would vomit," because he was going to push me so hard. I saw the writing on the wall, I was going to get fired. So, I quit in 1995, a job making $50,000 base salary, calling on medical professionals because of Amway. If I am lying, I am dying.

At the time my 3 children were under 8 years old, I had a mortgage, car payment, and normal responsibilities. I panicked and took the first job that came along: Dog food delivery sales person for Hill's Science Diet, and my base salary was a smacking 24,000 per year. I had just taken a 50% pay cut. I figured now I have to go diamond in this Amway thing and work as I did I still had zero success. But I kept plugged in the system, I kept surrounding myself by positive people, listening to positive tapes, reading positive books and attending positive functions. I begin to change the way I saw myself and the way I saw the world around me. I started being more assertive in my dealings with people though in the Amway end I was losing money hand over fist. One time Alan Shreckengost came up to Jacksonville, Florida, and spent the afternoon working with me, getting me pumped up. At the end of our visit, he took one of his numerous golf balls and wrote on it, "go diamond." I put that golf ball up in my book shelf and have not taken it down since even now 11 years later. That charge "go diamond," stuck with me.

While hyper focused on getting over my anxieties about Amway, thirteen months into dog food delivery, a friend of mine calls me and about a "cattle call" for experienced pharmaceutical jobs in our area. I respond to the ad and suddenly I am back to pharmaceuticals selling in the cardiovascular arena. However, this second time around in pharma, I am a much better representative. I am much more responsive to client's needs, market trends, and my work ethic is greatly improved. For the first time in my career I see what needs to be done without having to be motivated, cajoled, prodded or beaten in order to do it. The Amway system had transformed me to a very good business person in 13 months something my first boss tried to do by badgering me for five years.

I stayed in this second company about 13 months and learned all I could about cardiology. Meanwhile, I was still pecking at the Amway business but that was going nowhere fast; still I am plugged into the system. As I listen to those tapes I come to the realization that I have to find a way to make extra money and Amway is not doing it. Suddenly, a new pharma company comes knocking and offers me a higher base salary than I was making and a grant of 1500 stock options. (The options at the time were $5.00 each). I jumped at it. My doctors thought I was insane. Why leave the comforts of a big pharma company to go to a small company, promoting an unproven product, in a market led by the giants. But I caught a vision and spent 9 years at this company. During those 9 years I only missed stock option payouts 1 quarter and always made bonuses. Then, last year this company got bought out and the buying company paid us $73.00 per share. Over the course of those 9 years I W2'd about $2M US Dollars. In addition, when the company was bought by I was retained by the new company and I just make a bonus for my second trimester with the company of $40K.

Incidentally in 1999, my employer promoted me to district business manager in the Washington, DC area, so I moved there and am still here. Today, I live in an very nice neighborhood in Northern Virginia. My children attend one of the top 20 public schools in the nation, we all have great cars, I own a beach house in Jacksonville Beach and have financial abundance far beyond our wildest dreams. I don't say to boast, not at all, I hate being defined by material possessions, I say it because Alan Shreckengost's charge of going diamond came true. Even though I lost contact with Amway in 1999 when I moved North, the impact that those tapes, books and functions had on me, can never be understated. So, did I really lose money on Amway?? No, I didn't. As a matter of fact, Amway was the best value in an entrepreneurial education that I could have ever afforded. It was 2 million dollars better than I would have gotten out of going to any MBA school in the world. It certainly was better also than if I had just stayed at my original pharmaceutical company because only heavens knows what might have happened had I continued to work for that original boss.

In my opinion, while your number and cents about Amway are probably correct, they miss the point completely of the true benefit of Amway. Sure most people quit the business and never have any success but that's true of most business ventures in America period Scott. How many restaurants have you seen opening and closing over your life time? The list of people going out of business or bankrupt everyday is staggering but do you know what is worst than going out of business, it is going out of business with nothing to show for. Sure, I rank among the countless Amway failures in it's history but am I really a failure? I don't think so! I credit much of my success in my post Amway years to the wonderful lessons I learned from successful Amway distributors.

You spend all this time and energy in your website exposing the Amway "warts," but if perhaps if you spent your time doing something productive in increasing your productivity capability, you would be less bitter against an organization that while not perfect has given many a person wonderful earning capabilities. I wasn't born in this country, I immigrated here at the age of 17 from Brazil. If there's something I learned about America it is that America does not assure equality of outcome only equality of opportunity. Every successful Amway distributor started their business with that same $100. kit that the millions on unsuccessful ones did.

If more people in the country adopted the concept of functions, books and meetings in their lives, surrounded themselves by people who validated them who made them feel like they were worthwhile, this would be a much better country. Amway does it at a nominal cost. Sure a lot cheaper than any school in this country. Schools where you are sure to get a left wing, biased education that will only further re-enforce the proverbial "stinking thinking," So does the Amway education come at a price? Yes, but a small one. I think the best way to summarize how to approach the Amway business lies in the old addage, "if you lose, don't lose the lesson."

Thanks for the note and congratulations on your success. I've had many similar letters like yours. I even have some pages on it.

www.amquix.info/amway_business_training.html
www.amquix.info/amway_improvement.html

You are right. I always said they were the best motivators I've met. Too bad they have to lie that the business is a good deal. I've always said be in the system a short time, get out and apply what you've learned someplace else.

They owe me just under $10,000. I attempted to collect my wages numerous times, but to no avail. There are other trades that completed work them that also haven’t been paid.

I remember not looking at your site and it has helped me leave Quixtar. My wife and I left because of entical reasons. All my friends and plenty of church members came up to me and ask my opinion since I was in it before and my whole family was too (although my grandfather is still in it; its been over 30 years now for him). Now I am trying to use the site to help many other friends and church members see the company from a different view (yea.. a presentation).

One person, a close friend, I know are apart of the Larry Winters organization that has recently broke away from BWW. They have new business cards that say LTD (Larry Winters Team Development) and my friend's "boyfriend" convinced her that everything is new; and it is true that it is no longer affiliated with BWW because they broke away. But then she adds Quixtar (maybe because the company is going back to Amway).

Do you have any information on Larry Winters? Someway to lead my close friend out like I got out. But I was not apart of Larry Winters group. I do not even know anything or dirt on him.

It would be nice to see a live presentation to warn others of Amway/Quixtar that is informative and convincing besides the comic relief (important for coping after leaving the Amway/Quixtar business). It is good reading about it but hearing it and seeing it would be awesome especially if it was the Amquix Marketing and Sales plan. I would do it but I stutter sometimes. and I would know the right files to gather to present it, and present it just right. I am good with words though. I would be willing to work with others too including speaking.

Pastor Dick Hawley was forced from Highpoint Church as a direct result of this business. I spoke with the interim minister and he said that Pastor Hawley's thinking changed as a result of that business. I don't have the fine details, but essentially the Quixtar business was creeping into all areas of his church activity. He mentioned something about Pastor Hawley "charging" for certain meetings (don't know what that was about... although they may have been Quixtar intro's) and "pushing" Quixtar products (don't know exactly what that was about either). I spoke to the interim minister after a church service and couldn't get into great detail.

I heard from another source (whose relative is on the Board) that the whole ordeal nearly split up the church. Some of the "research" the Board did was exactly the same that I did... it drew from web sites such as yours. You, Jon Taylor, and others (hopefully me) are providing an incredible public service... probably more than anyone will ever know.

Everybody turned away is a person (and spouse/family) saved from a hellish experience. A married couple I know of near Philadelphia are now separated because the husband is tenaciously clinging to Quixtar. The wife is at her wit's end. I bumped into a lady last night at Barnes and Noble whose husband is in "Primerica" (a financial services pyramid scheme) and who hasn't made a dime in 3 years. Yet still he clings to the "dream." She wanted to see my research.

In the end, Pastor Hawley was given an ultimatum. He had to choose between Quixtar and the church and he chose Quixtar. In August I saw Pastor Hawley receive his "platinum award" (not hard when a minister peddles his influence) at a monthly event (Fred Harteis spoke that day). Pastor Hawley expressed to the audience that Quixtar was his "new ministry."

I quit Amway in May of 2000 after being in about three or four years. I sponsored a few people but they never did anything. I mostly just enjoyed being around the people but finally just looked at the money I was spending and the results I was getting and said to hell with it.

I was in Ron Rummel’s group. The house they had when I joined they said they had built for themselves. Just before I quit they moved to a used house and I couldn’t figure out why they moved if they were making so much money.

After seven years out of the business, I only have 1.5 boxes of SA8 left. To be fair I don’t do my wash that often.

I have saved some of the material from my daze in Quixtar AKA Amway. When I look at it I wonder, "What was I thinking?"

I have one Amway tape that I listen to pretty regularly; the music tape called "Reach Out and Press Play". I need to copy it to my hard drive and cut a CD because that tape is not going to last forever.

I want to thank you for the information you keep on your site. We were in Quixtar from July 2005-Aug. 2006. We tried to do what we were told would give us "financial freedom", but instead put things on credit cards and let other bills slide to "get serious" about the business.

Now, we weren't in one of the LOS's I see so often talked about on your site and others....our upline was Brown, Grabill, Gooch, but we were told the same things about the business.

8-10 hours per week
show the plan 15 times a month
and w/in a few months we'd be making significant income.

But, I started to notice our immediate upline get nervous every time we "strayed" from the course. The first time I noticed it was when my hubby got the bright idea to get the motivational books from the library rather than purchase them through ProAlliance. He didn't quite know how to counter that.

Then, when I wanted to make a real effort at retailing Artistry, I got put off by our immediate upline and our upline diamond's wife. We NEVER got any encouragement or "training" in retailing, which I felt would be the real key to our success.

He got obviously nervous if we had social conversation "crossline", and we were directly told NOT to be talking business with anyone, even someone under him, that was "crossline" from us. How stupid.

I just got tired of spending too much money on products (so that we only had "positive" products in our home" and spending too much time away from our children on weeknights.

I got tired of our upline diamond's wife showing off her diamond rings and fur coats, like those were what I should be working toward. I just wanted my husband able to be home more.....and if making a decent income a different way, then that would be just great. I am happy with our financial level as it is! All I wanted was to replace that.

Then, there was the obvious "personality cult worship" of the upline of our diamond, the Grabill's and the Gooch's. I was sickened when our immediate upline pushed us to go up to "meet Hal and Susan" as though they don't put their pants on one leg at a time.

Finally, but most importantly, we just plain could not stomach the twisting of scripture by people doing open meetings and the monthly meetings to promote a prosperity gospel, including Mrs. Gooch who stated that "God's Word says that we are to live in abundance", meaning material abundance. Hogwash. I've never seen that in my Bible.

It was at that point that I started doing some internet research, found your site, read "Merchants of Deception"(what a scary eye-opener), and read from some other sites, that I realized what a pile of poop that it all was. Little did I know that my husband was finding the same stuff, and we both were trying to figure out how to talk to the other about it w/o "stealing each other's dreams".....

Then, I had some problems with my legs, didn't want to drive a long distance, and didn't want to go to the big summer conference, and you guessed it, couldn't get our money back for the tickets. So, we were out another several hundred dollars....but in the end, a small price to pay to escape the brainwashing.

I'm just embarassed that I fell for it, after YEARS of resisting Amway......lol.....yeah, we were told "it's not Amway". Sigh.

Again thanks. And, I'd rather not see my name in print on the internet.....but, I was wondering if anyone else from this line ever experienced anything more negative than we did in our one year involved with them.

LML

Hi Scott,

I just saw this... (my Amway filter is ready for replacement and I don't think I should order a new one.... ;-)

so I was checking out prospective others....there are plenty with better stats and get this.... CHEAPER! by half.

enjoy!
J

http://www.waterfiltercomparisons.net/WaterFilter_Comparison.cfm

To: "info" <info@waterfiltercomparisons.com

Will you add the Espring line to your analysis?

FROM: "info" <info@waterfiltercomparisons.com

The Quixtar eSpring/Amway E5199 is a great system, if a bit pricey. It's Ultra Violet(UV) light is perfect if you're on pond, river or some other
non-potable water source, but if you're on chlorinated or chloriminated water, the UV is overkill. Compare the certified performance data sheet to
the other systems in the chart, and make sure the UV is worth 2-3 times the price of the others. The Amway E5199/ Quixtar eSpring is the only
counter-top filter we’re aware of that is certified to kill bacteria, but for the price, you might consider making all of the water in the house safe.
Aquasana makes a whole house filter that uses Ultra Violet for about $1300 plus installation.

If you buy a water filter, please write us back in six months and let us know which product you chose, and how happy you’ve been with the product
and the customer service you’ve received. It’s feedback from people just like you that allows us to maintain this site and make good recommendations
to consumers. Remember to share your filtered water with your pets, filtered water makes them live longer too.

Tech Support

We were in Amway for 9-10 years through the switch to Quixtar. We made it to Platinum Direct and made $15000 in bonuses and a trip to Scottsdale, AZ. Yet we lost that and a lot more believing in the dream. Thanks for all the work you do. I am Presbyterian minister and was a full time pastor and part-time Hospice Chaplin. That was when my wife came to me about the Nationals Company. I am sure you have heard of it and this is not a sales pitch or contact. I wanted you to know that God restored what was lost to my family. This is not a product driven business, very laid back and we are all one big team. It is so good.

Hi Scott,

I check your site periodically, and first of all, congrats on the amazing bike ride! My husband is an avid cyclist (Lance Armstrong is his hero), and one of his top goals is to ride cross-country. I, of course, will follow in a comfy coach, as my bottom just can't sit that long on ANY seat, let alone a bike seat. But kudos to you! Very impressive.

Is it possible to get an actual copy of someone's "Official Amway Career Manual" from 1981? That clause you posted would be very helpful in certain situations. :)

Thanks for your hard work.

Your PIC,
Sister Sam

Dear Scott,

We read your article (Free Speech is not Free). After reading it I immediately donated to your website.

Please do not remove or stop posting on the website. This site and the information on it is very very valuable and is saving many lives.

We can understand what you may be going through with all these expenses. Both me and my wife were in Quixtar from June 2002 to Feb 2006 and lost close to $30K in those 3 years. It sometimes still bothers us and makes us sad when we remember those 3 years and the amount we lost. We could have used that money for much better causes than taking our upline Emerald and enriching Quixtar.

We were always taught that the best way to grow in this business is to plug into your upline's goals. In 2004 our upline set a goal of going Emerald and we were told to pursue a goal of going platinum. We lost close to $20K in one year pursuing our platinumship and $30K in total in all 3 years. We became platinum's in June 2005 and quit the business in 2006.

NNCouple

Hi Scott i have read your page. I do not agree with a lot of the things said i have been an ibo for about 2 years i have not made tons of money but i am building a business not a get rich quick. amway is not quixtar they are 2 separate businesses and quixtar is a thousand times easyr than amway. i would also warn to be careful of britt lines of sponsorship most of the problems seem to stem from his line. i have a friend who was in his line and quit he loves the business but not that organization also a book was written called merchants of deception and a dateline show was based on that book it was later shown to be false and the guy who wrote it was just trying to start a mlm business himself and 6 months later went bankrupt i am not saying that the business is perfect but what business is if you can find one and prove it i would be surprised. I owe so much to my diamond if it we not for him me and my wife would not be together today so i guess you also have to look at the marriages that were saved. thanks for your time
Also I am in Jim Agards line of sponsorship i noticed some people had mentioned trying to track him down so if anyone would like to get in contact with him they could e-mail me at jingram83@hotmail.com

Found your site. I have been monitoring it for a few years. Wife and I went direct 15 years ago. Loved the business but, looking back I went broke. Did everything my upline suggested and it never grew from there - it just fell apart. I figure it cost me $50k and this does not include the revenue lost from getting a real job and moving on in the world. Hell, I never cared about a job when I was building the business - I was going diamond - right? I just made Dexter and his crooks rich. Oh ya did I mention the guy I sponsored in the north part of Mich ( I live in Ohio -12 hrs away) that shot his boss in the face with a shotgun and told the police he was coming to Ohio for me next. He must have been pissed about the money and friends he lost in the business. He is in jail for 12-15 more years. My wife keeps tabs on him. Hey we are still together with our great kids. I toughened up in the business and learned a lot about people and life but my advice is to run from the system as fast as you can. I saw it all for ten years. My apologies to all who have not benefited from the business. I hope I did not drag you in. The stories above are true and come from real people.

God Bless.

Former Great Lakes Member

Hi, my name is Dan, I have a friend who is big into quixstar, he is recruiting people with the idea that they will at minimum save hundreds of dollars monthly
on buying products for themselves, he is in the program for a few months,and really traveling to seminars,and making claims about their products.

I recently had an argument with him about nutralifes multivitamin, my friend is taught that it is THE BEST MULTIVITAMIN on the market.

I am an acupuncturist/herbalist/and do nutritional medicine, I dont see any published studies about this claim, and was wondering if you have any info on these
vitamin products and testing, etc.

I will try to show my friend your site, but i feel it may ruin our friendship, he is brainwashed!

any info would help, about false supplement claims, or other stuff with quixstar, i see many thing showing amway fraud, but not so much using the quixstar name,
as the quixstar people are taught that amway was what it was, and quixstar is different.

my buddy is traveling from ny to north carolina for another seminar this weekend, he really is into this, thinking he will retire in a few years, and when he
mneets people at the seminars that are supposedly rich from this, some as youg as 28 yrs old, he believes them, are they all liars, or are some people really
able to retire young?

Dear Scott...I cant thank you enough for your site. Only problem is it has come to late for us...i think.

My husband and I usually do not fall for these types of things (well we dont...but we have..I cant believe we did) and were lured in by an acquaintance, we went to the meeting very skeptical and I really dont know what possessed us to sign an agreement even when everything inside both of us were giving us red light warning bells. It was because we are walking a tough financial rope at present.

We only just signed 4 days ago...and paid via credit card..the min on everything we could do is what we did...but i remember asking if we didnt like it would we get a refund...they said yes...do you know if this is indeed the case??????

I felt so angry that it wasn't until after we signed that they tell us its Amway...and I feel so scammed and this isn't how my husband or I usually fall for this crap. I feel so darm embarrassed!!!!

I initially searched alticore before we signed but searches didnt come up with anything....Their whole MO goes against our morals and personal codes of ethics.

I look forward to your response

Regards

Margy

Thanx for your reply and words of wisdom Scott...they are very much appreciated.

Thankfully we got wise to this scam early on, so have managed to put a stop to the payment going out for their "product package" which was the bulk of our money. The rego is refundable as you said and we are in the process of persuing that now.

We sat through the whole info nite both of us very skeptical and looking for loop holes. One thing that I was suspect of in particular was that fact that there was an entry fee of $6 to the nite that only a few people seemed required to pay. That weighted heavily on my own mind. But It wasent until right at the end when the meeting was packing up that the guy said "oh by the way we are owned by alticore" For which I did a search on but didnt have the correct spellings.

We are in Australia.... when we told the guy last night we wanted out...we got a barage of excuses about the Australian Model of Quixtar/Amway being totally differnt to the American model I didnt realise and I dont know if you do either that the Australian version is called ""a2k". Our sponsor is aparently a friend of Dexter Yaiger (sp)..and has a real talent for name dropping!!!!

I havent checked their site out yet but heres the link www.a2k.com.au

I will be putting your site link up on a few of my own pages ...cant thank yu enough

Margy

Hello Scott,

First off I would like to remain anonymous if you would like to use any of this on your site. Secondly, I appreciate what you have put together on this website, It has been a great help.

I joined Quixtar in April of 2002. We are recognized as Silvers at events and seminars even though we only went Silver once (that's right one whole month at 25%!!) Basically our Platinum upline pressured us into buying a few cases of coffee and a set of Icook wear and an E-spring all in one month so we would hit "the top of the charts" and be brand new silvers! At the time we were both still actually believing that InterBiz and Casey Combden was going to be our future.

We have never been higher than 6000pv since then,(not even at Christmas!) and usually sit around 3000-4000 pv and that includes our own 300pv of Amway crap. We spend $200-250/month on system, events, extra tools as urged on to do so by all our upline. "Load your trunk with tools if you want to Succeed" we were preached to by Tom, Randy, Jim, Bill, Casey, Rod, Terry etc. (I can provide exact names and pin levels if needed.)

We are now in debt, $15000 in credit card debt, and are behind in all our bills and other payments. I have been pleading with my wife to quit for four years, and last week she finally agreed with me. After everything going on lately, combined with my disgust at the whole crooked Amway/quixtar scam, she finally too has had enough.

I feel so relieved, I can't put it into words. Some people might ask why we didn't quit earlier. Well for those of you that don't know the business I will tell you.

I love my wife very dearly. My wife got very emotionally attached to the business. After everyone telling her that the only way she could have a great life and live out her real dreams and goals was through Interbiz, that is what she really believed. You basically get brainwashed into believing that you can be successful if you are persistent, focus on your dream, and Ignore the financial numbers! After reading your article from another IBO I realized that I too had not been doing things that made common sense and was real ignoring the facts. http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_visitor_thanks.html

All though I was against the business for so long, my wife wasn't. I really felt like we were going to end up divorced because of the business and I saw alot of other people in the same or worse scenario. Then, just this morning we found out our upline,Bill and Barb Johnston (who hasn't returned our calls for 6 weeks since we missed the last seminar.) has sold their Business. Yep, the same couple who told us "never quit, we'll always be here, and hoe one day we too wont have to work" is quitting and selling everything to both go out and get jobs!! Ha ha ha!! I don't even know how to feel.

Anyone thinking of even drinking an XS. DON"T DO IT! Get away from anyone who even knows an Amway rep and run for your life. All this cult/scam will ever get you is broke, and alienated from all your friends. If I took the money from 5 years of system/seminars/books, cd's/Hotels,gas, and all the useless products you buy - I would have $45,000 in my bank account. And that is an honest answer, actually rounded down from just under $50,000.

I would be willing to list everything to give you a better idea if anyone wanted.

Anyway Scott, sorry to ramble on. I know it is very scattered and rushed but I'm feeling very anxious right now and hoped it would help me to get this all off my chest.

Take care and thanks again for what you've done with the site. It is what I truly believed help my wife realize what I was trying to tell her for years. I asked her to check the site out before, and she wouldn't, and even told my upline I was getting her to read negative on the internet! I could go on and on and on, but won't to spare you the agony!

Mr Larsen,

The High Court of the State of Andhra Pradesh has allowed the
State Police to go ahed with its probings of Amway India Enterprises. I am providing the link to you here (below) for your information and posting at Amquix.info if you deem it fit.

http://www.deccan.com/City/CityNews.asp?#HC%20allows%20probe%20on%20Amway

was perusing the www.wwdb.biz site looking for any response to the TEAM debacle and I noticed Jim and Judy Head as well as Rod and Penny Alcott are no longer listed among the Diamonds. Looks like a few more folks might be missing as well.

Hi Scott,

Some recent events reminded me of my Amway days, so I just started surfing the net and came across your site. Reading the stories of so many people that have had their lives destroyed really touched a cord with me and I thought I'd write you and share my story. I am 42 years old and was in Amway (INA/Jim Floor's Group) from 1983 to approximately the late 1980's. I remember seeing my then-husband go from job to job because it was always in the back of his mind to "build the business" so he just couldn't seem to settle into a career (we were 18 and 19 when we joined); cramming a tiny apartment full of books and tapes and products and supplies; selling our TV because it was negative; going to seminars we couldn't afford; faking it in front of everyone; wearing clothes that didn't feel like "me"; always being positive when there were real reasons not to be; cutting off friends and family because they "didn't get it"; and the list goes on and on. I remember the day our upline, who was trapped into an Emerald income, but not really building the business, "accidently" told us about the profit they made from the INA tools (I recall they left their price sheet in our box of tools and products - I believe they did it on purpose to wake us up to the truth). It changed everything for us and for the first time, we realized how we had been duped and what a mistake we were making with our lives. We told our downline we needed to move away to get our careers back on track and never told them the truth, and, of course, they disowned us, as all Amway-clones do when you step back from the business. Within a few months, we had quit the business, moved away and went about rebuilding our lives. The marriage broke up years later, but that had nothing to do with Amway (well, maybe Amway was a symptom). It has been over 20 years since my Amway experience ended. I have gone on to have a very enjoyable life and a wonderful marriage with my second husband and a satisfying career, but reading others' comments brings it all back like it was yesterday. I could entirely relate to the aspect of the business having too much to do with politics and religion. I remember after first quitting wondering who I was and what I really believed. Unfortunately this still was not to be known to me for another 10+ years as I was in a marriage that was controlling and cult-like as well. At age 35, I finally discovered who I was and what I believed and what I wanted out of life. I didn't realize until tonight while I was reading author Steve Hassan's link on your site and his description of symptoms people can experience years later after they have been in a cult that the Amway experience still affects me to this day (history of panic attacks, anxiety, sleep disorders, etc.) I would caution anyone considering Amway or any number of MLM businesses that if they decide to become a distributor that they never attend any meetings; never buy into any group philosophy; never purchase any training materials that discuss attitude or mindset and have nothing to do with selling; etc. Refuse to recruit people and sell the products instead. If you can't make $ selling, it's not a real business anyway. Brainwashing is not something that occurs overnight and unfortunately may not be realized until one is out of an organization and looking back, maybe even decades later. Thank you Scott for keeping this website running. It is a very valuable service that you bring to the general public. Keep putting the truth out there.

Tracy

I had a couple of email exchanges with you some time ago. I am another victim of the system and failed IBO who quit when the fraud was revealed by your site. I attended functions and free enterprises with Tim Foley and Bubba Pratt, met Bo Short and many other “leaders”. Had some less than pleasant email exchanges with Bubba after the shit hit the fan. I was in Andy Andrews’ down line, chose not to pursue Team In Focus or any other MLM opportunity, went into a “traditional” business model and have done quite well. I guess you could say I have gone diamond in the real world. Interestingly Andy and Polly Andrews have become customers of mine and have helped me build my retail business with their very kind comments and referrals. I do not know if the motivation for this has anything to do with the massive volume of tapes, books, and tickets I purchased while in their down line or not. Andy, of course, continues to be successful outside MLM and still is in the business of selling his own brand of motivation and spirituality. He seems to believe that he can help people improve their lives through his teaching and makes no bones about the fact that the teaching is for sale. My question is this: After all your efforts and the testimony of many former distributors in exposing Amwy/Quixtar as an illegal pyramid, not to mention the BSM business, why are these criminal enterprises allowed to continue. What will it take to finally bring all these bastards down and what can I do to help bring this about?

Dear Scott,

Just writing to thank you for putting the links to our new website ( http://www.ozamwayvictims.blogspot.com/) on your site. The traffic from all over the world has been gone through the roof ever since! We're getting heaps more visitors from Australia, our target audience, so the awareness here of our site is starting to grow quite quickly. Thanks again for your support.

Could we ask that any Australian readers who have submitted their stories here or are planning to, to consider sharing their story at our site also. Although the site is still in it's infancy, with your support it will surely flourish and become a very valuable and relevant resource for all Australians, now and in the future.

Cheers,

Admin - OzAmwayVictims

good morning sir, i can't agree regarding your statement that amway/quixtar is a pyramiding scam. i'm new in the business, but the business helped me a lot in changing how i think and helping me forgive the people who had wronged me. Those people who wronged me are beyond you will expect for a 16 year old during those time of my age and even during 2 years of age. Though we really invite people, we never force them. i myself don't force them to join. it is only when they really want to be in. and the book the secret was aired on Oprah. i don't think oprah will involve herself in that book if the one who is promoting that book is a scam.

i wrote this letter not because i'm intending you to change your opinion about amway. but only hear out from a girl at the age of 22 who had been happy ever since she is able to move on from her past because of the business....

prudence

I think the work that you are doing now with your website is absolutely paramount in helping people realize just what they have gotten themselves into. What folks don’t really realize is that the ones who "made" it on top are the ones who used the Law of Averages. I could come up with a horrible pyramid scheme that would yield far worse results for the masses and if I was talented and cunning enough to get people in, then the Law of Averages would say, that even then, SOMEONE WOULD ALWAYS END UP ON TOP. That doesn’t say shit for the rest of the poor folks who will be bamboozled out of their money not to mention their personal dignity. People need to understand that if the Diamond leaders really wanted to help their "beloved" downlines, they would teach them practical skills like how to align themselves on the Internet so they are not out harassing people in Barnes and Noble to join their business. I can’t tell you how many times they kicked me out and threatened to force the police on me because I would not stop soliciting my business. Then again, if someone was peddling something as immoral as Amway, I would want to kick them out of Barnes and Noble myself. I am so sick and tired of random people coming on the website and blowing you down with a bunch of nonsense bullshit that their uplines regurgitated to them. I am actively in network marketing and it was only because of Quixtar that I really got a good idea of what was NOT a good home based business. I am actually educating myself on how to recover all of my "lost" money from Quixtar. If you know of people who have not yet given up on their dreams and are looking to recoup from this disaster, please forward my contact information which is given at the end of the email. Please put me on the subscription for updates on any news you get on this disaster. I look forward to hearing back from you. Keep up the struggle. I AM NO LOSER OR QUITTER, I JUST FOUND SOMETHING ELSE THAT WORKS FOR ME. IF THIS WORKS FOR SOME PEOPLE, FINE, BUT TO ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE FANATICS OF QUIXTAR AND THE MOTIVATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN LIVES. TO SAY THAT THIS BUSINESS IS FOR EVERYONE OR THAT EVERYONE IS ALWAYS LOOKING IS NOT ONLY INCORRECT, IT IS INSULTING. To Scott: thank you for showing the truth. Go ahead and please display this message. People need to see the WHOLE picture.

Hello Scott,

First off I would like to remain anonymous if you would like to use any of this on your site. Secondly, I appreciate what you have put together on this website, It has been a great help.

I feel so relieved, I can't put it into words. Some people might ask why we didn't quit earlier. Well for those of you that don't know the business I will tell you.

I would be willing to list everything to give you a better idea if anyone wanted.

Anyway Scott, sorry to ramble on. I know it is very scattered and rushed but I'm feeling very anxious right now and hoped it would help me to get this all off my chest.