The page at

http://www.amquix.info/amway_ratios.html

Shows me nothing. I am a brand new IBO.. (not even a month in). However, you dont tell me how much theses IBO's made with the bonus check nor do you provide enough information about how many Clients/Members they have. It would be useful if you would have them send you the # of each as well as IBO's under them. And it has a few incorrect portions. like the "Weighted Avg.." i do believe 7.3% is better then 5.0% (From data sent to me by IBOs reveals that IBOs pay about 7.3% of sales in shipping charges versus 5.0% claimed).. correct me if I'm wrong here...as well as $1.13 is better then $1.00..(The page from actual site visitor Quixtar purchases shows how the average IBO spends $1.13 to earn one BV point instead of just $1.00 as claimed) I assume you were an IBO at one point in time. And because you didnt make any money with this I'm guessing you decided to create a site that would promote an anti-MLM business. As far as your charts go, you seem to dwell on the idea of "Lost Money" yea.. that's a given. However, if you were "for" this form of business you would give the total amount of money made by each IBO (which you do) but what I'm saying is you appear to only give the negatives. This site is a good site for information and all, but like my upline says.. "there will be arrows and darts shot at you to persuade you not to do the business" Yea, they could be saying that so that they make money. who wouldent. But it's true. Anyways, just wanted to rant a bit.

Firstly, the time investment required to build a successful business will be directly affected by the ambition level, economic resources, and the self image of those people who become a part of one's network. These factors are not mentioned in the Sales and Marketing Plan. There is an EDC couple, Ed and Rose Knickman, who personally sponsored only17 people in reaching EDC status. They found people whowere ready and who were looking. The time requirement will be greater if one is prospecting people who have no ambition and are too lazy to work.
Secondly, this is a business that requires specific knowledge about building and maintaining organizations of people. This specific knowledge is best obtained from the system. I agree that people should be careful to be financially responsible when purchasing tools. Personally, I believe most people need the system to help develop leadership qualities and the self confidence necessary not only for this business but for life in general.
Thirdly, showing the plan 5 and 6 nights a week may not be for everyone, but for those people who really see this as a serious business, so don't treat this work ethic as if it were something to be disdained. Most traditional business owners I know work 10 to 12 hours a day, 5 and 6 days a week. People who treat this business as a hobby don't show the plan that much anyway. Fourthly, some of the quotes on your site are taken out of context.
For example, Louie Carrillo in the Power of a Dream, did not say that he had to sponsor 100 people to find six, He said he would sponsor 100 people to find six directs if that's what it took to become a Diamond. Overall, I give your site a B+. I think people like you will help this business become what it can be and what it should be. I also want to thank you for putting Jeff Probants link on your site. I was really fascinated by the information on his site as well. Sincerely, Donald Silver Producer

Hi Scott,

Forgive me for stealing your name for my email address (scottlarson@charlesmanson.com) I would prefer to remain anonymous, and what better way than using your name.

I think you've "nuked" the Quixtar business model entirely too much (Nuked is a non-official Navy slang term referring to all the brainiacs that over-think simple ideas to the point of confusion).

I agree with you that the $200/100PV model can be misunderstood by one who is looking for exact numbers. It's an estimate, with real-like numbers. Can anyone actually calculate all the different PV's and BV's and give an estimated average amount that going to convey a concept in a small amount of time? I don't think so. The $200/100pv model is merely giving a prospect a brief understanding of how it works and not quoting real figures, since real figures are going to vary from person to person. (By the way you are a Melancholy temperament aren't you?).

I'll also agree with you that things are sometimes hyped up (after all people do things based on emotion and not on fact), and sometime exaggerated just slightly that the fact specific people feel deceived, but to the point that overall concept is still not changed. You too do that in your site, by taking statistics that you think are mostly true and make some assumptions to drive your point home. I ask you, do you feel good about trying shatter what people are working towards? Louie, might make more money on tools than through his Quixtar business, but the bottom line is look at how many people he's helped change their lives for the better? How many people have you helped make money to change their life from a bad situation to an unbelievable one? How many people have you set free from their nightmares? I think Louie's got you beat on that one. (please pass this to Louie for me, as I don't have his email, and he is an idol for me..."A man with a Dream will not be denied!!")

Secondly, you continuously bring up in your site that IBO's are more than likely only going to loose money in this business model. I would disagree. Yes I do spend, what some may say is a considerable amount of money on Tools/meeting (roughly $250 a month, when you average it together, but I get $200 back in a bonus check each month too. I generally spend about $300 in products and services through quixtar. That’s not an expense mind you, but a redirection of what I’d spend at the local grocery store). And yes, my support organization has a profit sharing plan for Platinum’s and above (I look forward to that extra bonus).

But I don't look at it as an expense. It's an investment. Both in my financial future as well as my future with regards to Personal growth. See, I was a very selfish person before this business. I got in only for the money "Show me the money!", but through the learning and mentoring of my up line and the "System", I have learned a great deal about myself and how I can improve and continue to grow through the rest of my life. (You too could learn something from this.) I used to think I was perfect...not that I didn't make mistakes, but that my character was perfect. I've since realized that I do need a lot of work to better understand my self and how people think and operate.

I don't believe any of these organizations that use tools are doing anyone any injustice. Like most sales organizations, there is a 20/80 split. 20% see the results while 80% do not. You're new plan would work the same, because you didn't factor in the people. While every single person who gets involved with a business plan like Quixtar, has every intention to be successful, understands how the tapes are going to educate them, keep them motivated, and are going to be tools to hand out to other potential IBO's to get them interested in the business....The fact of the matter is 80% of them fall off the wagon(or never even gets on), because of one thing or another. Sometimes, the people are real fragile, and afraid of getting a "NO", consequently they never bother to ask anyone or show the plan. Is that the systems fault? Nope. They system has offered to help that person in everyway. Tools/Tapes/mentoring/and seminars...that's where the learning is done. The other portion of the failing 80% only give a little effort and then the next fantastic idea they run off to. I call this "Shiny object Syndrome" because they are always going to what appears to be the newest and greatest...looking for the ground floor opportunity.

Now let's talk about the 20%, the successful ones. They are the people who stuck around. You can't not succeed in this business if you just hang around long enough (three months won’t cut it Scott) Sure, you're going to rebut this by saying that's just what they tell you to make money off of the system. But I disagree. I've seen a couple who has been involved for almost 20 years and never grew past the 3% point. But they enjoyed the people, the personal growth, and the atmosphere so they hung around. Well now they are finally growing the business, and in a little more than a year finally reached silver producer. They openly admit that they never put themselves on the line, and that's why their business didn't grow. The point is, it takes personal growth to develop a business like this. Everyone comes in a different point in their life. Some take longer to grow than others. But if you have a dream (not just say a dream, but truly have one), you will succeed. Some may say that they wasted years of their life and thousands of dollars, but if you ask them, they invested it in themselves.

This is a place where everyone is uplifting and positive. Everyone supports and encourages everyone else. Some succeed and some do not, but everyone is encouraged, and no one is chastised for not succeeding...for that is only temporary. The ones that bail out are the negative ones, the ones that don’t believe in themselves. I for one am going to go Diamond. I know I can, and I know I will…end of subject.

The bottom line is if you make this out to be a scam or a negative thing, than that’s what you get. If you have a winner’s attitude and you strive to grow then you’ll be part of the 20%. Notice Louie only talked about attitude…that’s because that’s all that really matters in this business. Go Diamond!

Good evening, Mr. Larson.

Your top 10+ list

Amway as a corporation is one of the largest in North America, and is probably bigger than the corporation you work for, or own, which ever be the case. In other words, our products are doing just fine.

We have access to the best e-commerce site in the world.If any other web site lets you shop for everything, but fresh fruits and vegetables by email, (with normal consumables I get a check list, it takes about 15 seconds) I am not aware of it.

You praised the self help systems results, dogged it for the cost and failed to point out that our seminars on average cost about 1/5 and the functions cost 1/10 what other motivational seminars will cost. Also, you failed to mention that we have a sixty day satisfaction guarantee on seminars and functions, and a six month guarantee on training materials. You are obviously a very intelligent man. Can you possibly expect to build your financial freedom for nothing?. We could argue motives all day long, the bottom line is that no one builds this business, without the system, and it is a small price to pay if you are willing to see it through.

Furthermore, "ANYONE" 8- 80, crippled blind or crazy, who invests $2000- 3000, a year in their business and does not experience substantial growth, is trying to "BUY" a business. Thankfully, as millions have discovered since 1959, this business does not work that way. It will be "BUILT" by the IBO, or it will not grow. There fore the money goes to the one that "EARNS" it. In other words, our business does not have to worry about the "big money" coming to town and driving us to bankruptcy

A lot of people quit this business. I will agree with that. Can the business be blamed for that?!?

If you put me in a room with ANY IBO , that is not experiencing, consistent growth in his business, if he, or she is truthful, I can nail the problem down in less than five minutes. The bottom line is, this system is incredible. It does work exactly like they say it does.

I paid $47 to get in this business. I get my email, and do most of my shopping in about 15 seconds, go to seminars once a month ($5), and about every other month, go to an out of town function, and spend $300 tops ( It can be done for less than half of that.) and I have a blast. My overhead on tools will run about, $50 a month. (Less than your cable bill probably.) It all boils down to priorities.

This is not a business you go into just to get by. There are easier ways to survive. This Business should be approached with the intention of getting rich, by helping other people succeed. There is no such thing as an organization of 100 people, where 40 of them are investing $2000-3000 a year for a whole year, unless they "aint" showin' the plan. and even then, most of the people will not be around for a year because of a lack of leadership.

The bottom line is, anyone can build this business big, but only a few are willing.

I know this was long, and I thank you for your time.

sincerely

Charles./ Diamond in the rough

Scott,

I found your site very interesting. I have maintained a Platinum/Direct business for a number of years. I backed away from active building 1 year ago due to a dispute with my sponsor (Diamond). It's amazing how much money you actually get to keep from the Am/Quix bonus when you are no longer putting your Diamond's kids through college with tool purchases and meetings!

To my point: I am looking into selling my distributorship as is allowed in the rules & regs. Do you have any information on valuing a business? Has anyone ever provided you with data on sale of their business?

I do not want to just fade into the distance and have my Diamond pick up more unearned income. I have worked hard to develop the level of business that I have and would like to realize that equity through a fair sale. Any examples would be appreciated.

Thanks for your time,

Trent

Scott:

Hello there. I can't appreciate enough the great work you do on your site. Have been using your site and others to deprogram myself. I was in it big time from Sept 98 to Oct 99. I felt I have wasted a year of my life and just have never been happier now that I am out of that shit.

Hi Scott!

After many years in plastic component manufacturing I very recently changed to a totally different line of business.
I have been given the opportunity to represent a European manufacturer of high quality Health, Beauty and Sport Supplements.
Shortly after I had started to look into the new business in more detail, a friend, who didn't know about my new line of business, called me and asked whether I knew that there was a new company in town and that it offered a great opportunity in MLM. The company's name was Nuskin and whether I would be interested to attend one of their presentations? (For your info: Seven years ago Nuskin have tried to enter the Singapore market but where prevented by the government from doing so. Four month ago they managed to get official permission). Since Nuskin offers a range of products similar in nature to those which I intend to represent, and since I have never even had a glimpse into the world of MLM, I agreed to attend. I pride myself in not being easily taken in by anybody, and to cut the story short, I left the presentation in the knowledge that they can count me out, thank you very much. However, I went into the Net to find out more about what is going on in this line of business and that was when I found your Analysis.I don't know why you did it, or for whom or how you even managed to get this amount of info and how you processed it in so much detail. Anyway, what I am trying to say is that I am more than impressed. I am so impressed in fact that I have decided to have the audaciousness to bother you with a few questions. I would (almost) understand if you didn't have the time to answer them, but if you have the time I would be nearly eternally greatful. Here we go:

• If your analysis is available in book form, I would gladly spend the money to buy one rather then printing it out page for page and link for link (I know, bad business sense)
• Do you have anything on Nuskin. I tried the Net, but couldn't find anything even remotely close to what you have produced with respect to Amway. Anyway, for all I see these two companies are practically the same as far as their system, their sales pitch and partly also their products are concerned. Any comment?
• My main concern is to build this new business of mine and to build it right. MLM the way I have understood it to function at Nuskin and Amway is definitely out. I am now playing around with some ideas to modify this MLM sytem on a small scale to such a degree, that it becomes a viable solution for all parties concerned (customers, distributors and the company) and also morally correct. I may be a tad too ambitious here, but I'll try anyway. What I would like to ask is whether you can recommend anything which I can look up or read as far as the marketing of Nutritional Supplements is concerned.

Thats it already.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read through this. And if you could actually give me some advise I would be really, really grateful.

Best regards
Ernst

Scott,

Thx for getting back to me! They never disclosed any of the prices until we joined, just claiming that there was up to a 30pc saving on retail prices! We actully joined but haven't had a chance to look properly at the prices, i'll do that this w/e. But they said the web site was the tird most popular in US and first in Australia? That was their most convincing argument for me?

Listen i sent the like to my up line and he has forward this on saying that he hadn't come accross you site before. I know on some sites they said Amway can get heavy handed on 'nay-sayers' so i thought i'd better just let you know. My up line sent me the attached on why not to listen to these 'nay-sayers'?

It is a little confusing when we read about negative things people say about Amway. It always seems more real when it is in writing. I certainly was confused and quite angry when I first saw some of the things which are out there.

Scott:

Dear Scott,

Thanking you for your more than informative website. I am in the mist of being duped by another organization called: Interbiz. Their website is http://www.interbiz.ca

I have been researching these companies over the last few days, trying to make sense out of what it is that the IBO's who contacted us, are trying to say. Needless to say, none of it made sense to me, air go the research.

All of the sites that I have found, none of them mention Interbiz.

Do you know why that is?

They operate out of Canada. A town called: Aurora, Ontario

I confronted the IBO who we dealt with yesterday, only to get an extremely defensive attitude over the phone.

Can you shed any Light on these puzzlements?

Thanking You in Advance,

Scott, thanks so much for the information. I just attended my first function this weekend and was less skeptical than usual because my financial advisor was my source! I took her word for it that it was legitimate and she undoubtedly did the same when she signed through her sister. I value highly the information you provide encouraging others to account for various business costs in comparison with revenues as well as calculating $/hr. Looking at the catalogs I can see how hard it would be to sell at retail prices to anyone that is the least bit budget conscious. The prices (eg reconstituted orange juice 1.5 gal for $15) are absurd! How can one sell these products to achieve the revised business model you promote to remain profitable? I guess you need rich, blase friends. Given it is a viable business opportunity, I am still most concerned with the hints of mind control garbage and propensity for deception inherent to the system. They tell you not to talk negative upline, downline, or crossline. Rationalized as a way of promoting success (talk successful to be successful) this method makes it impossible to get unbiased information from anyone! Obviously my upline has a stake in my success so I would be foolish to seek unbiased information there. I cant talk to someone in the business without a stake in my success (crossline) because they are told not to talk biz with me! People might be failing all around you but everyone thinks they are the only one as everyone talks successful. The coincidental connections of superfical motivational intent masking surreptitious means of protecting the system are what lead me to stay out. Even if I could build a good biz i dont want to involve myself in a ring of deception and underhanded methods. IN any case thanks for your help in discovering the disparity between the plan they purport, and actual profitability. It led me to consider your plan and its viability with their products. I dont know that I could retail much given the high prices but that is certainly what I would try were I so inclined.

sincerely,

Matt

Scott,

I've found your site very enlightening, I only wish I had been open and receptive to this information earlier. Instead, I plodded along in the business

for seven years. I did benefit from some of the personal development teaching, and at one point actually hit the "Silver Producer" level. Although it was exciting and we received a lot of recognition for that achievement, the next month we were back at 4000pv and continued to hover between 2500pv-4000pv for the next six months before the group started to fall apart. Finally, two and a half years after hitting Silver, I wised up and made the decision to become inactive in the business and put all of my efforts into my career in the field of Mortgage Banking. The thing that finally opened my eyes/mind was the way the "leaders" in my "Organization" ( I.N.A.) acted like they knew exactly what to do in order to succeed in the business as we were transitioning from Amway into Quixtar. They would promote some new tape set/s or video at one convention as being the "newest and most effective tool for building my dream" only to come back! one month later with another package for another $100.00. Of course as a "Leader" in the business, it was strongly suggested that I purchase all the "Tools" so I would be able to promote their use in my downline and set a good example. As I'm sure you can imagine I could go on and on, but I'll just tie it all together here by saying that the last two years of my life have been WONDERFUL, my wife and I have accomplished many of our dreams that we hung on our refrigerator for those seven years. In fact just today we closed escrow on a beautiful home and we are moving in Saturday. One final tidbit that I found very interesting. I recently heard that the man who was my "Ruby Dictator" oops... I mean Ruby Direct for all those years has just left the business himself. I understand he moved to St. Louis (from Orange County, Ca) no doubt with his tail between his legs.

Take Care,

Mike

Scott,

I came across your site in my Internet travels. I was recently shown the Quixtar business by a successful surgeon in the Chicago area. I had limited knowledge of the business other than exposure to a few people over the years. I had declined to see the business at those times. I do not have much time to write now. Would you mind if I asked you questions that your site has raised in my mind? I find your site cautiously interesting.

I will more than likely sign up as an IBO. The price includes over $50 worth of products and the ability to buy at IBO prices on Quixtar. As to what involvement I will have with building this business is not know at this time.

We are busy professionals and saving time on purchases would be a value to my wife and I. To us time is a more valuable commodity than saving a buck or two while spending hours to do it. Spending an hour or more to fight traffic and parking at Wal-Mart then fight the crowds and lines to save $5 is not worth it to me. That means I just valued my time at $5 per hour. My wife has already purchased a couple hundred dollars in Amway products and is impressed with the quality. The person who shared the business with us is a Platinum and has many items in stock to access.

I would appreciate any time you would be willing to take for question I may have.

Thanks for your time,

Mike

Your page http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway_wwdb.html

Dale

Scott,

As a Psychology/Sociology student who also counsels and is preparing to start a Master's in Psychology, I find the deceptive nature of Amway to be quite fascinating. My wife was recently sucked into the vortex of Quixtar...against my better business sense, but has conceded to minimize the damage by NOT buying the peripheral items, tapes, books, et al. I think that it is great that so many people have a dream, but it is a shame that this company like so many, takes advantage of the good faith of the many to continue the prosperity of the few. I believe Karl Marx called these people the "bourgeoisie" and the faithful the "proletariat". Maybe I am stretching this a little, but for impact it works. I was interested in hearing a business proposal without the hype...my wife saw (fictitious) dollar signs. I am always amazed at the reasonably well educated people that succumb to the borderline brain washing and give up solid, stable careers to chase an unequivocally, ridiculous dream. Only a few actually have the lack of conscious to make it...the rest well, lets hope a valuable lesson has been learned with minimal cost. Thanks for your time,

Chuck

Scott,

I have just seen your web site:

http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html

This is very interesting as i have just been introduced to this 'scheme' recently and i have been attending some of their 'talks'. Now i am the ultimate sceptic but and it took a lot of convincing but they ended up getting me to sign (...last night infact!) Actually a friend that we took along last night sent me a link to your site that proved very useful reading!! Now i'm very worried. I remember distinctly when i was introduced to the 'scheme' they told me to visit the internet site, but they specifically said to type in the url exactly as they'd given it and not to 'search (engine)' for it as there are 'clone sites out there who are trying to steal their ideas...' etc. Now i'm thinking that its because they didn't want us to come across any o the sites like yours! I've been doing some digging since then also and there are loads of these 'true life' stories of the real Amway, now i'm scared with what i have let myself and my girlfriend into? Do you have any advise as you seem to know a lot more than the both of us? Thanks.

Mike H

great site, you really are smooth with your misconceptions..I cant help but wonder if you really did any research at all, Quixtar did 518 million in its first year, and the opportunity is not offered as a hey get rich by saving money or going out to sell products. But, as with any worth while opportunity, people like you have to knock something that they can get rich quick in, hey, are you still investing in that great stock market now, hmmm, must be making alot of money now.. It was obvious that you did not do research when you stated that part about the system, tapes, books and what not, you see, amway is not part of that system. But all is not wasted, your site provided a nice hearty laugh, and by the way, i am not a distributor who is making millions,,, yet..

Mike H

Hi Scott,

Somehow I came across your web site and to be honest, after reading so much, I really can't remember how I got there! You really put in some time on that web site. What is it that you do for a living? It seems you do have a lot of time.

Basically what you are telling people is NOT to get involved with Amway and Quixtar. What should we do? If you haven't noticed lately, the price of gas has gone up drastically $2.19 in Chicago alone. The price for natural gas has also gone up dramatically, personally, my bill is three times what it was last year. What about schooling. I haven't heard of any colleges lowering their tuition's. Have you? What about health insurance? If you haven't noticed, the cost of health insurance is constantly rising. The price of prescriptions alone can put people in debt. Have you seen the stock market lately? Maybe you haven't noticed, but there are a lot of companies laying people off and downsizing. Even completely closing their doors. What is the average person supposed to do about income? I'm not talking about doctors, lawyers, engineers, I'm talking about people with nothing but a high school education. What should these people do? Work in a factory? Have you noticed that factory work is being eliminated by computers and robots? Some companies are even moving their work out of the country. Maybe they should flip burgers or deliver pizza. What do you think? Where can someone with nothing except a high school education get a j.o.b. that pays $50,000 a year, with benefits? Any suggestions? Anything under $50,000 isn't worth waking up for.

If you haven't noticed, this is typical life in the U.S.A.. People are struggling. Two income families are the "norm", sometimes with three or more jobs. Maybe they should get the kids to work after school. Anything to pay the mortgage! WAIT, the kids can't work..... they're off shooting people and dealing with drugs. That's right, wouldn't want THAT to change. That's also the "norm", right?

So here comes an IBO that meets this "typical" family. They tell this family about this "Business Opportunity" with Quixtar. They tell the family that they can read these books on leadership, family relationships, and business, if they read them it will help them with their lives. Is that bad? I don't think so. What's wrong with reading a book that will help you with your life? Borders Books and Barnes and Noble sell these books everyday. They also tell them to listen to some tapes. The family might actually be able to relate with the people on the tape. "Wow, these people on this tape are just like us. Maybe we should find out what they did to get out of that situation." the family says. WAIT, Scott says that this "Business" will charge you $7.00 for a tape. Hmmm. The $7.00 tape helps the family come together and dream of a life outside of hamburgers and macaroni. What does an $18.00 CD from "Aerosmith" do for the family. Doesn't pay the bills for anyone, except maybe Steve Tyler.

Now, back the question. What should we do about making money in America? Work hard, work hard, so people can "just get by". "Phew, we made it this month honey, just don't call off or get sick and we should be okay for next month too!" the proud father said to his wife. "At least were not in that Quixtar business, you never know where we would be if we would have stayed in that!" she said. She's right, they'll never know. Way to go Scott!!

Come on Scott, you have all the answers. What should people do to make money in America? Is there something people can do that won't cost them time, money or effort? Yet they'll make a ton of money. If there is please let me know. I'd love to do it. There isn't a job or business like that that I know of. Think Scott, there has to be something. No time involved, no money spent, no effort used. What is it Scott, tell me. I will anxiously await your advise. Please hurry though, the price of gas just went up another .05 cents a gallon. I need an answer quick.

Mary Ann

Scott,

I absolutely must commend you on an outstanding website. I admire your drive to provide a broad range of unbiased information on this powerful mind game, even to go as far and suggest how it could be fixed to really produce income if someone really wanted to have a profitable and RESPECTABLE business using MLM techniques. In this age of rapid access to information, hopefully people will look to sites like yours and do some in-depth research before they critically damage their careers and family relations with carefully fabricated marketing ploys. I am committed to tell my story to everyone I know in the hope that I can prevent some unfortunate soul from making a fatal error. I see from the postings on your site that my tale cannot measure up to some of the grief I have read about, and in that regard I am respectful and grateful.

I also have read many of the posted "debates," if you can call them that, you have had with Ambots. They are absolutely comical, and just reinforce your argument that these people know absolutely nothing about a business they will support to the death. You support your argument with a wealth of data, and they can only respond with emotion, threats, insults, deflecting a question with another irrelevant question, rhetoric, etc., etc., but since "If you have a dream, then the facts don't matter," I guess we should reasonably expect nothing more. Most of them fail even to construct a grammatically correct sentence. I guess once again I inquire too much, as it is well known in the business that Dexter Yager only has an eighth grade education. Since accurate duplication is so important, maybe that is why people write with such abandon.

I used to be a member of the Yager-Wilson-Haugen-Anderson-Cowart LOS. I never felt comfortable with this thing but always saw myself to be a "Doubting Thomas," and so I tried to drown my suspicions in tapes, books, anything that would open my eyes so I could finally "Sell Out to my Dreams." My sponsor was the poster child of what they try to make you, and he had been in the business for at least 6 or 7 years. Even with all his dedication, motivation and what I believe to be a knack for this type of thing (or maybe he was just trained very well), he still hadn't gone direct. I always wondered if he couldn't seem to do it, how the hell would I given my lack of a strong belief? It got worse when I attended an Anderson/Cowart Winter Conference where these blatantly fake people paraded around on the stage in their gowns and jewelry, contradicted themselves every time they opened their mouths, and the star-struck crowd just ate it up. My level of discomfort increased.

Then on Sunday at the morning prayer service, the way they tried to justify their greedy motivations by insinuating that somehow the Lord was smiling upon their actions almost made me sick. Visions of Jim and Tammy Bakker haunted me for days after that. I have an uncle who is very active spiritually, and I was deathly afraid to tell him what I was involved with. Now I know why, it wasn't the Lord who was doing the smiling. The way these "supposedly devout Christian people" can justify "selling out themselves" to anything at all, is frightening, and reminds me of what Moses saw when he came down from the mountain with the stone tablets. By the way, isn't sponsoring a prayer service another violation of the Amway rules? If there is so much integrity in the business, why are they blatantly disregarding so much of the Amway Code of Conduct? Because Dexter says so, that's why, he is the worst thing that has ever happened to Rich and Jay

The audio clips you have on your site where Dexter gloats about how he strong arms Amway into 100 point circles are an excellent example. Another great audio clip is where Dexter tells women that they should boycott "Queers" at the hair salon, since they were only after their husbands." 'You don't go dealing with the Gays. I get upset with the Gals that go support the Queers, when they're the biggest competition they've got for men. You don't support the girls that are after your husbands, but you're supporting the guys that are after your husbands. Just the way it is, they want your husbands to all change and be gay like them, isn't that right? Now quit having these Queers dress you' ". What a fantastic role model for everyone..

The STORIES these people tried to make me believe were so outrageous that I had to laugh. It seemed that they would spare no measure to keep people excited, regardless of how ludicrous the tale. Evidently they think that nobody would ever dare to investigate the validity of this nonsense. One night Bruce Anderson, our upline diamond, had flown up from Florida to speak at a training session. While introducing him, an Emerald (not directly in my LOS,but under him) started gushing about how knowledgeable and respected he was Then, she let us in on a little known secret. Evidently, Bruce had been requested to speak at a major function by his upline, Randy Haugen. For the same day as this engagement, Randy's upline Don Wilson had also asked Bruce to speak, but he had to decline as he was already committed. Then, Dexter himself called, and requested Bruce's services for the same exact day, andhe turned him down also. She told us this story with great passion and animation, and all the people in the crowd swelled up their chests with pride and managed to squeeze out a tear of pure joy. What commitment, what dedication to our group, turning down Dexter!! What a crock of shit, more likely!

They constantly kept us overloaded with "updates" from unfamiliar and unverifiable sources how awesome and revolutionary the Quixtar "Digital Destination" was, and how people were joining the business in record numbers. Listening to them, you would think all of North America couldn't wait to get a piece of this action. They constantly spewed data of how unbelievable and unprecedented Quixtar's page hit-rate was, and how it dwarfed Amazon.com's initial stats. It was plainly obvious in my mind, that this comparison was absurd.

I pointed out to my upline that Amazon started from absolutely ground zero with their clientele whereas Quixtar had millions of "FIRED UP!!" Amway people pumping this thing endlessly for at least 6 months to a year prior to its 9/01/99 launch date, but it fell on deaf ears. Nobody was interested in reason, they were too busy partying and focusing on their dream. Your website uncovers the mystery behind where these phantom people were from; they were all the Amway people adopting the Quixtar business. We were told once of an individual recently who went Platinum within 18 days of joining. Now, how could someone who knows nothing at all about the business accomplish what my EXTREMELY knowledgeable and motivated sponsor could not accomplish in 7 years?

They predicted within 5 years 90+ % of ALL sales would be done through the internet, and any business who couldn't facilitate this would be history. This would drive the vast majority of shopping malls and retail stores out of business worldwide, and Quixtar would be in a position to corner virtually the entire retail market, and all with no sales tax! What do you think your state taxation department would say about that? I inquired how people could try on items such as shoes, which vary widely within sizes. The answer I received was that people would get used to this method of blind ordering, and if they didn't fit they could be always be returned free of charge. I don't know about how anyone else purchases shoes, but I try on at least 4 pairs before I make a choice of purchase. The hassle of returning all those shoes would make this method of sales impractical in my humble opinion, not only from a consumer point of view, but also from the standpoint of the supplier who would have an extremely high restocking rate and return shipping charges.

Another outrageous thing that I was told was that the servers employed by the Quixtar website needed to be switched off periodically for a cooldown period, the tremendous volume of web hits would melt down these machines otherwise. Now it is starting to get pretty deep in here, if you know what I mean Scott, you are an Engineer like me, and if I remember from your introductory credentials, a Mechanical Engineer. Consider these points, and tell me if I am incorrect in my assumptions of thermodynamics or general economics below:

1.) Since when did the amount of heat generated by a microprocessor vary in relation to the number of instructions per second that it performs? I thought the heat generated by a semiconductor device was due to bias currents, not the mysterious internal friction of moving parts.

2.) Chilled water is used to cool nuclear reactors, and other such devices producing power levels on the order of gigawatts. Am I supposed to believe that a simple cooling mechanism of ANY sort could not be produced to keep these machines running continuously???

3.) What kind of idiot would design a computer system that was not rated for continuous duty, like every other computer in the free world? The amount of sales lost due to the reduced bandwidth of dropping a server offline, would within no time exceed the price of the machine itself.

The breaking point for me came when we were showing some good friends of mine the plan, and my sponsor said something about his full time employment which contradicted what I had told them ahead of time, while I was building up my sponsor's credibility. Then came some awkward backpedaling. I could see the suspicion rising in their eyes and I will never forget it. These people were friends of mine, and it was because they trusted me that they were even there. I felt at that moment that I was betraying their trust. I would look at my friends and family with my wheels spinning, analyzing them as to their suitability for "the business." In return they just innocently looked back and smiled; they had no idea how corrupt my gaze had become

This only served to weaken my respect for the business even further. More questions that started to surface: Why did we have to hold back, and only tell people what was needed at the moment? If this was such a great deal, why did we have to be so careful about what information was leaked out? If we are sincere about our business, does it really make sense to hold it in? Why did we rehearse so much how to show the plan, and what not to say? I am reminded of an old saying: "A good liar says a lot, but the best liars say nothing."

What is this obsession with cross-lining? The term "Divide and Conquer" comes to mind. Like the way prisoners in a POW camp are treated, eliminating communication among the oppressed through isolation minimizes the chances of a revolution. Why were we paying $6 plus tax for each tape? Where was all this money going? I know they cost less than a dollar to make, so if they were so critical to the success of the business why are they gouging us with the price? My wife even though she was unconvinced, loyally stood by my side, listened to my mindless ravings, and accompanied me to the training meetings. Only periodically, did she point out how much I was spending.

Finally I had seen enough. My uneasiness was out of control. I had to call it quits. There were too many "illogical" alarms going off in my head, and my conscience was relentlessly hounding me. I only wish I hadn't spent over $1000 on this scheme, before I came to this conclusion. I called my sponsor, and informed him of my decision to quit. He was surprised at first and tried to "fire me up," but eventually he resigned. The handwriting was on the wall, and I was too far gone. I gave him back all my business tools, and asked him to give me whatever he thought they were worth, knowing full well that he would use them again with his future prospects. Since he was a friend prior to this fiasco I still talk to him periodically, and to this day 8 months later, he hasn't mentioned a word to me about that... I couldn't get a full refund according to Amway's rules since it had been over 180 days since I had purchased the tools. Funny how such an understanding guy could suddenly resort to "Business is Business."

My biggest addiction however, was that I fell very easily into the dreaming trap, and spent quite a bit of my time planning the future. My parents were going through quite a bit of financial difficulty, and I could see how it was slowly destroying them. More than anything else I wanted to be able to pay off their debts so they could be free. I thank God to this day that when I showed them the plan they weren't convinced. Had they spent their last few dollars on the hope that this would have solved their financial quandary, I would have never forgiven myself.

I was unable to sleep for a few days as the realization set in that my dreams for paying off my parent's debts were slipping away. This was tremendously depressing to me, and several times I was tempted to call my sponsor to change my mind but I resisted. The power of this emotional programming was like nothing I had ever experienced, it is no wonder some compare it to a cult. I can see how people would do the dumbest things devoid of all logic and reason, and destroy their marriages, careers and families, sell their house, etc. all to chase a dream of achieving the next pin level. All of them with the blinders on to every source of information except their upline, who willingly pad their pockets as they lead you along by the ring through your nose. I felt like a junkie, wanting desperately to pop a tape back into the cassette player in my car, which for the past 8 months had never been still. Now there was only deafening silence. I was alone in my failure.

What I learned through this experience however, I believe will enrich my life. One of the sayings I picked up in the business goes "If you don't have a goal, you will reach it every time with 100% probability." I realize now that it is up to me alone to carve my niche in life, and I can't just float along with the tide and then complain where I end up. I do have plans for the future, and together with my wonderful wife we will walk the road together, one step at a time. Never again will I disregard her opinion as that of someone who "just doesn't see it," she saw more than I gave her credit for. Never again will I allow anyone to close my eyes to knowledge or information, or paint a one-sided picture. Also I have placed new faith in my gut instinct; if something just doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.

It doesn't take Albert Einstein's brain to realize that there is a tremendous attrition rate in this program. I see now, that less than 2% of those who ride this emotional rollercoaster ever make it to the Platinum level, and as we have heard Dexter himself say, these people are still broke. Evidently the income at this level still pales in comparison to the tremendous outlay for tools, function and airline tickets, hotel rooms, gas, tolls, and more importantly, the loss of time with your family. Only when you get up to around the Diamond level, your tool business rewards you nicely, far more than your Amway PV. That is another secret my sponsor doesn't want to believe.

Trouble is, I don't think I could live with myself knowing that my beautiful house in Jacksonville Beach, Florida was paid for at the expense of so many. I often wonder if these people who have seen success in the Amway/Quixtar business, only knew (or cared) about the hundreds of people who gave them exorbitant sums of money in a desperate attempt to win a negative sum game. They know, but having been a victim of the Yager System for so long by that point, that they have long since justified it as part of the "price for freedom." Well, they can keep running their treadmill at 3 AM with a false smile on their faces, in search of their next victim to propel them toward their dreams. If they accomplish nothing else, they will keep the diners across America and the Cardiologists in business. As for me, I discovered the true meaning of freedom the day I awoke from this nightmare.

 Hi Scott,

My name is Ravi Mathew and I'm from India. I think your site is incredibly informational. I've got a favor to ask you, as you may know Amway has opened offices in India. There are using 1997 sales figures of 7 billion and passing it of as the figures for the year 2000.

Could you tell me whether Amway has announced sales figures for the last 3 quarters and where I could get this info. You would be doing us a great service and prevent more people from falling into this trap.

All the best I think you are doing a great job.

Ravi

My parents are diamonds in the Amway business. I appreciate the viewpoint of your site naming the cons of the business. I think the idea of the business is good, the problem is that it inherently depends on the honesty and integrity of its distributors. With this type of system, there will, without failure, be people who abuse the system. My parents were previously in a system where the leaders were taking all the profits from the tapes and books, but the leader of their current organization had the integrity to call them on it. The result was the forming of a new organization built with the right principles. People must be so careful not to be deceived by all the crap some distributors will tell them just to get them in. If you don't trust the person prospecting you, then don't get in.

The problem I have with your site is that I didn't see anything positive about Amway/Quixtar. Yes, there is a bunch of crap going on, but not all distributors are bad. If you want distributors to filter people through your site, then why don't you have a section that's positive? There is no way I would send prospects to your site. The only feedback is from people who have quit, deceived, or feel otherwise wronged by Amway. People need to know there are crooks, but they also need to know THERE ARE GOOD PEOPLE!

You make it seem like you are taking a middle of the road approach, just giving people information, but that is far from the truth. I am a natural skeptic, and I know there are way too many sharks in the Amway business. I just hate to see the whole business get a bad reputation because of the crooks.

My parents have a great success story and the Amway business has allowed me to have opportunities I would have never had otherwise. The reason they are so successful is because they invest into their people because they care about the person just as much as they care about the added business. If someone commits to making Quixtar work knowing it is not a short term fix, then they have a good chance of making it if they dont give up. Many people are just afraid of what people will think of them. Every business will have crooked people with ulterior motives, unfortunately Amway has plenty of them.

I appreciate your caring enough about people to warn them of the possible pitfalls, but I also wish you would care enough about people to show the possible upside. Amway/Quixtar has the potential to change lives in a good way, and this site does everything possible to sway them otherwise. You seem to take pride in swaying people not to get in, potentially killing a positive future for many people.

Sincerely,

Ben M.

Ps.

One part of your site I do think is amusing is that many of the quotes you got from Diamonds about bending the truth and misleading prospects, etc., are from the organization my parents broke away from. They are most definitely crooks with way too much power.

Scott,

I appreciate your writing back. Amway is no doubt a self improver. And while the books and tapes might help people in their existing career, I find it hard to believe that they still want to work in a "job" after consistantly being tapped into the tools. The concepts in many of the books (Rich Dad, Poor Dad, etc) just reinforce for me that I need to get into business for myself. I just graduated from good school with a business degree and I now work in the sales/marketing department for a company in the medical device industry. Im 22 with a great job that has great pay, benefits, and a profitable future. I know that this job is only a tool to help me get into business for myself.

While I have never been active in AmQuix, what I have learned from being around the business and my parents is priceless. AmQuix has allowed my parents freedom they could never have had otherwise. They choose when they want to work, and when they want to play. They have taken me places I never would have gone without AmQuix. Through the tools and mentoring my dad has received in the business, he became the man I want to pattern my life after. I don't think many sons say that about their father. Especially at my age. I have a wonderful wife and when we have kids I want her to be able to decide whether or not she works another day in her life. I want my kids to have the same opportunities I did. Now I just don't see that happening with my job.

While some distributors may market AmQuix as a "money making venture," my parents market it as a "life changing venture." While some might make false claims about it being easy, my dad would be the first to tell you or anyone else that its by no means a quick and easy way to make money. He would tell you it takes perserverence, a positive attitude, a no-quit mentality, and extremely hard work. What he WOULD tell you is that you'll have the opportunity to change your life and the lives of others. And that statement is entirely true. No it's not easy. It takes time and hard work. People say "no" and many distributors have a hard time facing rejection. People might lose some friends, they might sacrifice some time. But down the road they might gain their freedom. Freedom to do what they want, when they want, and with whom they want. That doesn't happen in a job. AmQuix might save their family through the tools and mentoring. A father may become his son's hero (even when his son is 22 and married). It just comes down to what is important to people and how hard they are willing to work for those things.

AmQuix is just a tool. Individual people decide where they go with it. You can't help what your upline does or what your downline does or what anyone else does for that matter. But you can help what YOU do. If people are willing to put in the time and effort, and if they aren't willing to give up under any circumstances, then they will be successful. That doesn't only apply to the business, it applies to life. And like I said, people need to decide what's important to them and decide what they are willing to do have those things. I was the defensive back of the year this year in division III football, I tied two national records for interceptions and received numerous honors. None of it would have happened without the Amway/Quixtar business. The point is not to brag or boast, the point is to show how my life has changed being around the business. I would not have had the attitude, determination, or work ethic I would have needed without it. Yes I had some natural talent, but it isn't the talent that set me apart, it was hard work.

My dad will tell you that with hard work you can build this business. When people hear that, many of them think "oh yeah, I can do that," only to find out later they aren't willing to make the sacrifices to succeed. They can blame their upline for taking their money, their downline for not working the business, or say they don't have the time, or quit because their friends aren't supportive, but it all comes down to excuses. There are always excuses for failure in life. I just don't think it's fair to blame anything or anyone but themselves for failure. It's not the system that fails, its the person, and then they are looking for something to blame. Sometimes you have to work so hard without the desired results until there comes a point when you CANNOT BE DENIED success. Many will quit before that happens. What I don't think is fair is blaming the business for that.

You can talk about unethical practices or tool profitability or whatever. I could tell you that my parents business doesn't profit that much from tool sales and that won't change your mind. But each person decides for themselves whether or not they want to run their business in an ethical matter. No they can't decide what their upline does, and it really is too bad if they are unethical, but if someone is willing to put in the time and effort, someday they will be able to decide where the extra tools money goes. I'd be willing to say that most jobs don't let people decide much of anything.

The Amway/Quixtar business gives you an opportunity to change your future. You will likely lose friends, you will be forced to make sacrifices, you will be rejected time and time again, you will get discouraged, and you will have setbacks. Those things are guaranteed. But if you refuse to give up, refuse to make excuses, if you discipline yourself to follow success principles, and dedicate yourself to achieving your goals, then success in this business and in life is guaranteed.

No it's not an easy road to success. But can you tell me something in life that is? There is no such thing as "get rich quick." If there was everyone would be doing it. Every business will have its problems, but I want people to see what Amway/Quixtar can do for them in a positive way. They deserve to know it can be much more than a "money making venture," but rather a "life changing venture."

Thanks for your time,

Ben

Yes, Scott- You've managed to find the 98% who will do nothing more significant with their lives than to complain to others that life is unfair. You really don't know the facts and it is obvious that you are one of those know-it-all sorts that no one can tell anything to. Keep up the good work weeding out the nay-sayers. We still need people out there to do the dirty work. My business is going fine and I certainly get compensated for the work I put into it. Yea, you are a jerk and I'm sure I could create a web site as large as yours with people seconding that motion. KKT

Scott

I happened upon your site just recently. I was a, what I would call, semi-active Amway distributor in New Zealand and Australia for around four years.

I was part of the "Yager" system of tapes, books & functions, and eventually decided that I'd spent enough money.

I never realized that so much of the Emerald and Diamond income came from the system tools. I could never understand why I wasn't making any money - now I see why! Your site has certainly been an eye-opener.

I would like to congratulate you on the presentation of your site, and the sheer volume of information it contains. It is relatively straightforward for anyone to follow, and highlights some serious doubts in Amway's (Quixtar/Alticor/a2k in Australia & NZ) future success if nothing is done to curb the activities of unscrupulous high-pin distributors.

The responses you received from Messrs. Carrillo & Loupelle bring no great surprises as they obviously have very large incomes at stake should Amway put the clamps on.

Keep up the good work

Regards

I find your way of presenting the "facts" to be very disturbing. To take little pieces of what people say or ask without giving the full text is simply wrong. I could put up a site with little pieces of what you have said, out of context, and do what you have done here. I DARE YOU TO PUT THIS, IN FULL, AT THE TOP OF YOUR WEB PAGE!

Dear Scott,

My wife and I were approached by the UK organization last week and were almost lured into signing. At the 11th hour I had doubts while reading the contract terms and conditions, so I searched and found your site, containing information related to my doubts (retail sales in particular), plus loads more information about the business operation.

So much of the negative information, such as the 'cost' of the system was lacking from their sales patter. I've poised some of my own questions to them and supplemented them with your arsenal. I don't think we will be signing up now.

Thank you so much for saving our time and money,

Rgds,

Greetings Scott,

http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway_statistics.html

I have a couple comments regarding this page.

It is my understanding that as an IBO I am not required to do anything. I can become an IBO and buy nothing, sell nothing, and tell no one about that fact I am an IBO. The 10 customer rule states "In order to obtain the right to earn a Performance Bonus during a given month..." Nothing is said that to just be an IBO I have to do squat.

One thing that seems to be missing from this page is the variable work. Call me crazy but isn't that even a remote factor in success. Do you have any numbers as to the percentage of IBOs that are doing at least the minumum of what is taught to build and grow a successful Quixtar business? None of the requirements that define an active IBO are sufficient to achieve any signicant level of success.

I person not knowing better might read this page and think "Wow, look at all those poeple working this business vs how many actually make it." Whe in actuallity you never even considered work as a variable.

I attended a function where the speaker asked people to stand who had shown ten plans in the last 30 days. My guess is there were 600+ people in attendance. Out of that 600 about 25 stood up (I was not one of them), maybe more, maybe less, it was a couple of years age. He then ask those who showed the plan 10 times per month for the last two months to remain standing and the rest to sit. That left about 10-12 standing. When he got to three months only five or six were standing.

I heard Ron Puryear say on stage that only less than 3% of people in World Wide are CORE month in and month out. Even that number seems rather generous based on the test I saw.

Can you please tell me why you gave no consideration or mention work level or quality in your analysis. I have a job and at my job work level and quality are major conderations in my continued employment. In Quixtar I can be a registered IBO and do nothing year in and year out, and trust me a great many do just that.

Do you have any numbers that correlate CORE to success. If I do all 9 steps of core 52 weeks out of the year are my chances that same as if I sold Aunt Martha one product once a month -- that would quailify me as active by the definition.

What is the success rate of a CORE person showing 10 plans per month vs 5 plans; 20 plans vs 10.

Do you have any real world number of earing of Platinums and above teach 100PV (no retail) vs 300PV (retail).

Do you have any numbers that even include work as a variable. I know I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but even I know that results in any endeavor requires work. Yet, not one mention is given to it on your page.

I have not read any of the rest of your site. If you have done an analysis of work vs success please let me know where it is. I have yet to find one site on the net that includes work in any calculations.

Do you have in data showing how many personal plans the average Platinum, Emerald and Diamond showed and out of those what was the sponsor rate and retention rate.

Do you have any data showing results of sponsoring a given number of poeple and a given amount of time vs the same number of people sponsor in twice the time or half the time?

Do you have any data showing real world profitability of a Platinums with varying width?

Thanks for your time.

Stan Smith

Scott,

After reading your page a little closer I see that perhaps I was reading something into it that was not intended. Your page seems to be is more of an analysis of what you have seen based on information you have been able to gather and screwed and presented in such a manner as to push your viewpoint on others.

I personally am not too interested in spending a great deal of time doing studies and analysis. I really don't see the long-term benefit in it. Why are we (Amway/Quixtar) still around after 40 years if so much of what you claim is true?

The reason for the dot com crash is because things can't last long term on business practices that do not work. If what you say is true, why are we still here? Yes, we have gone through a slump. That proves nothing. GM has been through a slump or two, so has IBM, GE, Disney, and the list goes on and on. That's just business. Why are we still here after 40 years Scott? That seems to be another topic widely ignored on sites such as yours. If everything you say is true Amway should have been out of business by 1964, 1969 at the absolute latest. Were still here. Why?

I am three downline from Ron Puryear, Ron is our Platinum. My sponsor is in direct counsel with Ron. I think it's is reasonable to assume the Ron knows a few things about this business. Maybe, just maybe, more than you do. I have been in their home. I have had dinner with Ron and Georgia Lee more than once. Lord knows any money that I put in his pocket isn't going to change his lifestyle. Ron has flown his personal jet from Spokane, WA to Dayton, OH to do house meetings in my sponsor's home. The pilots told us it cost $15,000 in fuel to do that. I never received a bill for any of that. He has done this at least three times while we were living in Ohio.

http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway_case_studies.html

Thanks, I'll check this site out. Well actually probably not. You have an agenda to push and I really don't see it as useful to me. I sure you will think of me as another close-minded, blinded by greed, or brain-washed Ambot who is ingnoring the "facts" or more precisely the gospel according to Scott. Go for it. Do you have anything from Forbes, Wallstreet Jounal, Business Week, Time, or any recognized credible source? That I will read. Sell yourself to me Scott, why should I buy what you are selling? (And you are selling it.)

<<Can I ask how long have you been in and what profit you are reporting on your taxes due to Quixtar/Amway?

Yes. First, how long it's been since we signed in as IBO and how long we have been in the process of building it are two different things. We joined in 1992 in Cincinnati, Ohio. We showed about 25 plans in 3 months. Those were to friends and family. Out of those 25 none choose to get involved with the business. I did not pursue them as customers as I was taught. We did manage to get about four customers out of that. From that time until now we have not been active. We did continue to purchase the products, attend occasional local functions and I read a lot of books. From that time till now we have not claimed any deductions on our taxes from this business. I never felt I gave it enough of an effort to justify it. We were "active" by the definition of active but not to any extend that would grow a business. We have only been serious about the business for about 2 weeks now. I am pretty much listless (no names). We are new to Maryland and I have to get out of my comfort zone and meet new people. It's scary to do that. Many times I will not follow up a conversation with somebody about the business. The reason for that is fear. Plain and simple it's fear, fear of rejection. But I know that if a keep swinging the bat I'll strike out a whole bunch, but sooner or later I'll get a hit. That is what I try to do everyday. I swing the bat, learn from my mistakes and move on.

<<Core entails buying what 300PV/month? Let's be practical, people on a budget can't afford to buy 300PV with Amquix. I mean if the savings were there, wouldn't they buy the stuff? Maybe they don't go core because they are spending more. That is what I discovered and that is what numerous site visitors have discovered. Sure there are a few, great money saving products, but you can't use $700-900/month of the stuff. I mean do you do 300PV? Why not? It should be easy if you SAVED money shouldn't it? It should be EASY to retail the rest you don't consume because you can save you friends to much money, right? If you ask yourself why you can't do 300PV, then you answered why most everyone else doesn't do 300PV either. If you can't practice what you preach it isn't paractical for the masses. Face reality. Few will pay more for their consumables to play the pyramid buying scheme, if they can't get others to buy into the idea in three or four months.

300 PV - 500 PV is CORE. That is personal use AND retail. What you don't do in personal use you make up for in retail.

I have found that price isn't the major consideration that everyone has about everything. You seem to make it the only consideration and the be-all to end-all factor of every purchase decision everybody makes. Price is important but certainly is not the only consideration that people take. Look at cosmetic companies like Lancomb, Este Luader and Mary Kay. You can certainly buy cosmetics for less than what they sell them for, yet these companies do huge volume and they have been in business for years and years. Also Redkin hair care products that are sold in salons. They do a huge business, yet Suave is much cheaper. If price is the only consideration then why do these products sell and continue to sell. Tide is not the cheapest detergent on the market, it is however the number one seller.

I have found that many people think it's wrong to do business with family and friends. I have an Aunt that was involved in Shaklee a number of years ago. This was long before we were presented with Amway. We bought from her on a regular basis. I never thought twice about it. My thoughts were that she is my Aunt, I love her, and I would rather support her business than by from somebody I don't know. I never did a cost analysis. The products were good, we could afford them, and we needed them anyway. When we got in Amway I thought everybody would feel as I did, boy was I wrong. My aunt is no longer in Shaklee and she has yet to buy anything from us. Nor has all but a few of our family. I love my aunt and other family members very much and the fact they don't buy from us does not effect that at all. I have yet to make or lose a customer based solely on price.

Have you ever bought popcorn at the theatre? That proves that you too don't make price the sole factor in every purchase decision you make. I do think our products are competitive when a proper analysis is done. I also think people will buy them if they are presented the opportunity to do so in a correct fashion. I think a more appropriate word than price is value. It is important to give a customer value. Value takes a lot more into consideration other than just price. I sold Saturns from 1994 through 1995.

Saturn succeeded because they offered value. The price was not negotiable, the product is quality, and service, service, service, and customer satisfaction is the gredo. Saturn knows that customer service is king. Yugo proved that price alone will not sell. I found that when I focused on price, I sold very few cars. When I focused on value and service. When I found what the customers needs were and showed how Saturn could meet those needs, guess what, I sold cars. Did I sell everybody that came the door a Saturn, ABSOLUTLY NOT. I did this for almost two years. I learned that people are not the logical creatures you may think they are. If you depend on sales to eat and you use logic and price solely to present and sell your product or service, get used to a steady diet of Ramon noodles. I attended sales seminars at Saturn in Spring Hill, TN. GM is the largest corporation in the world. GM over that last 100 years might have learned a thing or two about what it takes to sell a product. Guess what Scott? When I attended these seminars they didn't sing your price is king song. Most of what they taughtis exactly like I heard in this business. I have read many books on sales. I defy you to find me ONE that says price, price, price is king. Service, value, satisfaction, trust, and price. They all go together.

<<I'm sure you will never find it. I'm sure you will find more who did the 2-5 years with 10-15 plans/month and did not make it. If you add in those who taught and did 300PV then yes, those did make it. Some will make it work, most won't. You'll have to ask yourself if the business is practical for the average guy? Sure 3 sigma people will always be their to achieve, but Amway was made as an opportunity for the average guy. If the products are not competitive the average guy will not be successful. Why don't you ask the corp? They are in a better position to have the data. They will not give me anything.

This is true. I am a recovering drug addict. I used drugs for 14 years, from age 16 to age 30. This month I will have 14 years clean. There are 4 options for addicts and alcoholics. They are: jails, institutions, death, and recovery. Three of the four options suck. The only way to recover is to change. If you have ever read the 12 steps you'll see only step 1 deals with drugs or alcohol. The other eleven deal with change and living a life without drugs or alcohol. If you don't work on what got you there, how can you expect to move forward in recovery or in life. I'm talking about something a whole lot more serious that a box of soap. To succeed in Quixtar one must also change. Only three of the nine CORE steps deal with creating volume. The other six deal with personal change and accountability. Most people get involved in Quixtar for one of two reason: time and/or money. Money being the main reason. Their decisions and actions in their life to that point is what got them in the situation to need or want more money and/or time. If they are not willing to change the thinking that got them there then they are not going to move forward. That's why we have the books. That is not only true in AA, NA (Narcotics Anonymous) or Quixtar, it is true in life.

One of mans greatest fears is to change. If I have seen people die because they were not willing to change, is it not surprising very few are willing to go through the changes necessary to build this business or to set them self apart from the masses in any endeavor. I have seen people go through miraculous changes in my almost 14 years of recover. Who am I to judge who is "average" and what their potential is. That would be playing God. I have seen so-called "average" people do extraordinary things. World Wide offers an environment for change. It is up to the individual to choose to change or stay where they are. Yet you blame us for peoples inherent unwillingness to change.

Fear is the main reason people don't show this business to more people. It's not all the logical reasons you said. It's fear, and/or a lack of belief in themselves, the Quixtar/Amway business, or their sponsor, but mainly themselves. It is fear of failure, fear of rejection and yes, even fear of success. It is your mission Scott to heap more lack of believe on them. That as I see it is your goal.

People, and yes even we men, are not the logical creatures we like to think we are. Emotions govern most everything we do. Everything we do we do for how it makes us feel. That is why you have your website. Bottom line if you didn't like the feelings you get from telling people what you think and devoting so much time to pushing your agenda then you wouldn't be doing it. I sure you feel you are providing a necessary service and that's why you feel good about it. Your agenda is NOT to provide information so people can make an intelligent decision. Your agenda is to get as many people as you can to feel and think as you do. You will never convince me otherwise. I have yet to see one site such as your where that is not the case. The felling I get is why I am writing this. I really need to examine that, because in the final analyses I don't care what you think. Nor do I want to know what you know, because chances are you are not where I want to be. I sure I'm not where you want to be, so what the hell are you reading this for. Must be so you can respond and slam me to the ground.

Welcome information seekers! My name is Scott Larsen (Purdue BSME 82, MSIA 86). Thank you for visiting my site. This site presents practical economic insights and information about Amway/Quixtar.

Personally, I think that statement is a load of crap. I think it should read:

Welcome information seekers! My name is Scott Larsen (Purdue BSME 82, MSIA 86). Thank you for visiting my site. The purpose of this site is to sway you to my way of thinking about the Amway/Quixtar business. I have included sufficient information that supports my belief and have arranged it in such a manner as to sound intelligent and further support those beliefs. I have neglected to include information contrary to what I belief. I am extremely negative about Amway/Quixtar and my goal and my mission with this site is to get you to be also. I have devoted countless hours and resources to this end. I welcome all comments so I can be validated by those who believe as I do and criticize those who do not.

Stan Smith

Hi Scott,

II have heard it said to fight the fights you can win. My mother-in-law, whom I love dearly, has opposite viewpoints when it comes to politics. She is very passionate about what she believes. It would serve only to upset her to try and change her to my point of view. I will never change your OPINION.

You will never change mine. I say opinion because you really don't have the real world numbers. That is why you can only throw the ball back in my court when asked to provide them. I have not yet built a Platinum business so I can not speak from first hand experience either. My success in this business is not hinged on what you think. Then why did I even start this dialog? That's a good question.

The only reason I even read your site is to know what it says so I can better handle question that may arrise from yours or other sites. The no retail example has never been an issue in my line of sponsorship. WWDB has always taught retail. At least I have not heard otherwise.

Your friend is not doing anything illegal. I have no idea how he runs is business. I never said he did it that way, I only said, if he did. Do you own a business Scott?

You don't want to believe the truth so you don't look at it. Stick your head in the sand, it's your business. Maybe in a couple years you will have seen the light. Look at your own business. The numbers are there.

No, I don't believe in YOUR truth. You can even back up your own numbers and when asked to do so you tell me to get them myself, or you anwser my question with a question. However much experience I have and whatever my numbers are they are greater than yours are. If I have shown only two plans, I got you beat by two. My actual experience in this business is much greater than yours is. At least I speak from experience as does Jeff Probst.

I think we are arguing the same side! Many lines teach a $200 model, and no retailing. You debate a 500PV model with retailing. Duh....That is not what I write about on my site. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it..

My point is your page is geared to the negative. Your site goes well beyond just showing how the $200 model is inefficient. I didn't make the spreadsheet for your benefit. I only added the numbers for how long it would take to recoup expenses in reponse to what I read on your site.

I was thinking about setting up a web site offering a different perspective and posting comments from people who are positive about this business and are profitable. After contacting the corporation, I found that there are far more restrictions on an IBO than a non-IBO when it comes to websites. Bulletin 17 sets strict limits on what can be posted by an IBO. In the long run I don't see it as a wise use of my time. As long as a non-IBO doesn't break any laws they can say whatever ever they want. You have very little accountability Scott. You simply have to stay within the boundaries of the law.

You have ZERO experience actually building this business and working and dealing with the people in this type of business. You can't talk from first hand experience. That fact is clearly illustrated by your comment:

And, you guys in WWDB might as well be in Amway since you still have to pick up product and pay downline checks. How archaic can you get. Product pickup...what a joke.

The times are high-tech; people are the same as they have always been. Ron Puryear and the WWDB Diamond counsel made the decision to keep this a people business, that is one reason why we still do it that way.

Taking your advice on this business over Ron Puryear's would be like passing up golf lessons from Tiger Woods to take them from someone who never played the game. You have never played this game. Ron has been in this business since 1972. Do you even have a clue how many Diamonds he has worldwide? I'm not totally sure but I think it's close to 100. Do you have any idea on how many cumulative hours of experience just the WWDB Diamonds have? Are you so arrogant as to believe that you have insight they never thought of? WWDB made decisions based on 100s of thousands of hours of cumulative and actual experience, your statements come from ZERO experience. This is a point you can not argue. Do like you usually do Scott and answer back with a question.

Do you think that just maybe in the 100,000 plus hours of cumulative hours that someone may have thought that "Gee, more retail would increase our overall volume and help IBOs fund their business...Duh." The challange is getting poeple who don't work for you to all do it. Since you never tried you wouldn't know that.

Why don't you show me and build a business like you say it should be done. Build a Triple Diamondship with high retail sales. Change the system from within. It not as easy as just sitting behind a computer and slamming people for doing something you have no firsthand experience doing. Jeff Probst is at least doing that. I respect his efforts. I have no respect for what you are doing. I am not saying I don't respect you. I am saying I have no respect for what you are doing with your site.

Sure there will always be a few guys who did it right and wide, but most can't,

No, most WON'T. Another statement from a man with no Amway/Quixtar experience to speak from.

...the market doesn't accept the system. Just look at the sales growth. Have fun building in a negative growth environment.

Is there a market for cars, computers, telecommunications, passenger jets, and new homes? All these industries, and many others, have experienced multiple years of a downtrend on more than one occasion. You're the business major. Didn't they teach that at Purdue? Track GM or IBM over the last 80 years. Look at Lucent for example. Do you doubt that Lucent will be here in 25 years and be a major player? What about Boeing. Has Boeing they ever experienced a downtrend?. Using your logic they should been out of business years ago. Frank Feather puts Quixtar in the top 5 by 2010 in his book Futureconsumer.com . Where can I buy your book on Internet business trends Scott? How many global companies come to you for business analysis and trends?

You keep asking for my numbers. What you are asking for me to back up what I say. What are your credentials that makes you an authority. A good sign of creditability is how may creditable groups or companies seek your advice. Frank Feather for example. Show me a 1099 for Internet business analysis and trends perfromed by you. Show me why I should buy what you are selling and I will. I will cancel my Quixtar IBO and dispand my business if you can show me one fortune 500 company that hired your services for a comprehesive analysis on network marketing on the Internet. You talk about us backing it up. What about you? When you build a multimillion dollar business of any kind get back to me. All you got is hot air and snappy answers when asked to back up what you claim. Again I say, SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!!

Check out http://www.jmm.com/. They do for money what you do as a hobby. Hince the addage - you get what you pay for.

If WWDB represents 15% of Amway/Quixtar the comes to about $750,000,000. When you have built ANY business to 1% of that size get back to me. Heck Scott, get back to me when you hit 0.1% Talk is cheap. That's why your site is free.

Since I can not give you even real world Platinum numbers yet. I will shut up also.

Stan

This is the most thruthful information I've ever seen about Amquix.

But, I still Have many questions, tell me your experience in the business, what you saw? Why you quit? etc, I greatly appreciate your help.

Hey Scott,

I've reread the whole thing and now I am more convinced about the information you offer. But I got questions, I still have this guy he is a direct and I ask him where can I buy the tools for the business. He and his wife were very restrictive about answering me, they say "why are you worry about it?" and I said because I want to know. Then they turned aggressive and I didn't want to continue. They told me that they get that from internet services and that you need to be a direct and fill out an application to be a member so you can buy large quantities and distribute those tools to your people. But I have the impression that they make a good deal of money on that. I don't understand why can't I order that directly from the provider. Why do I have to go through them?

Please, if you the answer to my questions please let me know, also I would like to know more about you. What you did in the business who was your diamond, etc.

I got into this business two months ago and I've seen a lot of crazy stuff but I need money, so I am trying to do this, but I want to make sure this is an honest business.

Once again thanks for your help.

Dwayne.

Nice site, just wanted to give some info to you. I've got one of the quixtar handouts that a sponsor gave to me and looking at it I found some of the same info you have on your site concerning IBO's and diamonds and such. However, on your sight you left a couple of 0's out. The actual numbers published by quixtar state that as of Aug 31 1999, approximately 0.0013417% are Platinum or above, in North America. And, .0000771% are qualified as Diamonds. That works out to 1/.0013417% or 1 in 74,532 IBO's for Platinum and above and 1/.0000771% or 1 in 1,297,016 IBO's for Diamond status. I am not as up on the data for Quixtar as you but I thought since it was right here in front of me I'd pass it along. It also states that approximately 41% of all IBO's are active.

IF YOU WANT A CURRENT RATING OF HOW QUXITAR IS DOING CHECK OUT WWW.ALEXA.COM. WHEN I STARTED LOOKING AT THEIR FIGURES TWO OR THREE MONTHS AGO QUIXTAR WAS AT ABOUT 350TH PLACE. THE LATEST READING WAS 817TH PLACE. ALEXA IS A DOWNLOADABLE PIECE OF SOFTWARE YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN.

 Scott,

Thank you for the very informative article on Amway. As someone who was seriously considering joining an MLM, I have decided not to join for the various reasons you stated in your article.

After completing some additional research, I have found that the overall industry dropout rate is between 85-90%. Not very encouraging to say the least. The bottom line is that MLM, network marketing, and direct network marketing are simply vehicles designed for a company to sell their product(s) they normally could not sell via normal retail channels.

Just bring the distributors in, promise them the moon, collect their monthly product money, and recycle them every six months to a year. Just don't try to explain to them the principles of geometric progression.

Thank you again.

Bernie

I have a few close in-laws that are into Quixtar and Amway. I have been approached with a demonstration and I was tricked into a meeting just last week. I honestly happened upon your website by misspelling a different website. My answers were placed right in front of me. I am not, nor ever planning on becoming an IBO or even buying from this organization. But, I am always being told that I am missing the boat. That I don't understand what this is all about. I know from working 10 years of customer service for a major corporation that I am not interested in doing the type of things that are required. I feel it is only benefiting those who do not truly understand this business. I am saving your page in my favorites for a future meeting where I will once again be told to join on the bandwagon. I knew there was a reason why I felt like Quixtar was too good to be true. At least for me anyway. Thanks for giving me the fighting power to tell them to leave me alone.

Hi Scott, I just want to say thanks for posting your website. Thirty years ago my father lost an amount of money equivalent to the cost of my parents' house in "Koscot Interplanetary" which was a "multilevel-marketing" scheme involving Glenn Turner's cosmetics company..My father spent the rest of his life trying to crawl out of the financial hole and he died before even coming close. I was recently approached by a sincere young man who wanted to tell me about the "e-commerce" business he and his wife were "building" and immediately I suspected Amway. So I looked on the internet and found your site. I am going to encourage this young couple to check out what you say also. Statistics don't lie. I once had another eager, enthusiastic young man tell me about getting involved in "multi-level" marketing (again Amway) and he told me about how he just needed six people who in turn would recruit six, to the sixth level. And I got out my calculator and figured that would be about 45,000 people involved in selling product. And since our town had less than 30,000 people at the time, I asked who would buy the products if everyone was selling.

He seemed puzzled but came back a few days later after talking to his "sponsor:" "People are dying and being born all the time." Needless to say, my personal opinion of anything having to do with Amway or any other MLM scheme could not be any lower than it already is. So thank you for sharing some facts, statistics, and good business sense.

Your website is very informative and I will take advice from many aspects of it. I remain a strong believer in the system and am very happy with the results me and my group are receiving. With Amway/Quixtar being as big as it is there are bound to be representations of it from people who don't mind lying and rounding the numbers to help make the sale. I'm sure with all of your research into those who create false hope and spread misguided thoughts you have come across some very honest and respectable IBO's who share the plan exactly as they have found it for themselves. When I show the plan I prefer to show the prospects exactly how the numbers work including: telling them it will take at least $250/month to get your 100P/V, as well as bringing a catalogue so they can tell for themselves whether or not this is something they would be interested in. Going over the numbers and making sure they understand how the percentages work is also very important for them to know before I will sign them up. To me this is vital for a strong group with everyone knowing exactly what they can attain and what effort they must put forth. This is a great business to be involved with, however, honest representation is a must for it to work successfully. I would also like to state that the products are excellent and are well worth what we pay for them. Are you against Quixtar and it's possibilities, or are you against the misrepresentation of it?

P.S. I will be referring your site to people within my group as I think there are many ways it can help them show the plan for what it is.

Thank you for the information you have on your site. I wish I would have looked at it before my husband and I chose to sign up with Quixtar as a distributor. When it came time to tell my upline that we were not going to pursue it and that I had researched it on the Internet, she told me that she had checked out a few of the "negative" websites also and had tried to e-mail the people on there and received back that the address was bad or that there was no such person. She suggested that I get on your website and see if you would e-mail me back, and I hope you do! Once again, thanks for the information!

Sincerely,

Lorrie

Scott,

After listening to several tapes and going to a couple of meetings, I hoped to make a decision soon on which direction I would turn.Being in sales for 29 years, motivational tapes are not new to me. What really bothered me was that no one would or avoided being specific on numbers. Just work hard, listen to tapes (Agh!) go to meetings and you will have everything you always wanted.I'm glad I found your site. Almost too much information to digest. I'll take on bite at a time.

In the mean time, I'll ride this fence.

John

Dear Sir,

I want to thank you for the information that you posted on your site. I found it thought provoking and am currently reconsidering renewing my IBO agreement. I haven't made any sales yet this year, but I estimate that I did not make more than $200 in BV last year, and I am pretty sure that I spent half of that in support materials.

Anyway, I will have to use Year 2000 figures for these charts and will get back to you with the results.

Thanks again.

David

Mr. Larsen,

I want to thank you for explaining a lot of the details of the Amway/Quixtar business that I could not otherwise get an answer for. I have been prospected as a possible IBO in the business, but there was always a question in my mind as to the value of the program or "system." Your web site has shed some light on the business. If it weren't for your helpful site, I probably would have lost a lot of money to the Amway/Quixtar distributorship. I especially like the excerpts from Don Lorencz's own web site. My girlfriend and I almost got involved in the system, and we almost decided for sure to go 14 hours to a function that was touted as the most important function in history. Since we are in college and hence broke, the

costs would have been staggering. However, thanks to your site, we aren't going to blow money we didn't have to go to a function we didn't need to go to.

Again, I wish to thank you for your invaluable information.

Thank you,

P.S.: Please feel free to use my message on your web site, but I would like to remain anonymous if you choose to do so.

Hello Scott,

I'm sure you get a ton of "thank you's", but what's one more? It amazes me how much work you put into your site...that's great. May I ask WHY you would go to so much trouble? I have not joined, nor will I, Quixtar (thank goodness for the internet)- however, I need some advice on how to gently tell the person NO. I read your "how to say no" section, but I didn't know if you have any other suggestions. The person that has been talking to me about Quixtar is someone that I truly think is a knowledgeable, stand-up guy and it amazes me to see how brainwashed he has become. I have to have a professional relationship with him for another month (he is my personal trainer! - prepaid, of course) and I really like the service so I don't want to drop him...HELP! I printed out your list of questions and asked quite a few of them, not getting a straight answer on any of them - he's supposed to have them by Friday. Friday is when I want to tell him NO. Do you have any suggestions? I also heard the excerpt on your site of Dexter talking badly about gays. I happen to be gay, so I was wondering if you had any written info that Amway/Quixtar is anti-gay?

That would be enough ammo without trying to be gentle. : )

Anxiously waiting!

Hi Scott,

Thanks for responding back to my e-mail. I don't think I signed a BSMAA, but I did sign a MDE/IBO registration form and a quixtar-affiliated IBO registration form. I paid for a kit that was around $40 instead of the kit with all the samples and stuff. I would really like to quit and get of this as soon as I could. I'm really glad I came upon your website before I could have really spend some big money. I thought this "business" would have really worked out good for me because I'm a college student still deciding if I want to stay in school, and I thought this would have been the way for me

to go. For the past 4 months, I've been driving back and forth, back and forth from and to my sponsor's house trying to learn from them. I guess that they have been a pretty big help, but they've lied to me also. They always told me that it was always easy to get your 100 PV for the month. Being a single guy living by myself, it was very hard to spend 100 PV. I must have spent around $250 on things I could have bought at Wal-Mart for only $100, and just to get back $42 for doing my 100 PV. I thought that was really ridiculous and I became very discouraged. Now I want out and right now my upline is still telling me to go to this "Weekend of the Diamonds" seminar in Fort Worth, Texas. I heard that Dexter Yager is going to be there.

Anyway, the organization that my sponsor is into is this MDEweb. Do you know anything about it? Thanks a lot for your help.

Sincerely,

J.

I did a web search on Amway/Quixtar and your site was one of the hits. It certainly seems to be well researched and comprehensive regarding information.

I was approached by a friend to become an IBO. I am a very conservative person by nature and remember when Amway was involved in that large lawsuit long ago. I also tried one of their products over 30 years ago and hated it.

After perusing your site and reading a lot of the information, there is no way I am going to touch this with a ten foot pole. I thought it was to good to be true and it surely is! If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then believe it is a duck.

Thanks so much for all the time and effort you have invested in producing this site. I am so grateful. It has confirmed my suspicions about Amway/Quixtar. Just another gimmick to bilk us out of money and time. Karen

Scott,

Thank you so much for putting all the Amway/Quixtar information on line.

About 4 weeks ago I was contacted by a Quixtar IBO. He told me all the things a person would hear the first few times (easy money, 2-5 years, work from home...) Since I already ran into MLM companies before (the notorious Equinox and later on Market America), I was skeptical. Very. I tried to contact the consumer affair and search their web site. But I could not find any OFFICIAL compline against Quixtar.

Then I read your site (by finding it on google.com key word "Quixtar"). All I can say right now is - THANK YOU!

I am sure many people can make good money at Quixtar, but those would be the same people that will sell snow to the Eskimos in Alaska. For those of us who try to follow the 'work from home plan' it won't work.

I will now contact that IBO and tell him politely that I am not interested.

Once again, thank you Scott.

Eyal

Mr. Larson,

My husband and I have just rejoined Amway/Quixtar for the second time. Under the same IBO. The first time around we didn't have the time to put into the business. Now that we are older and we do have a six year old son. We have the time. We are not afraid of hard work. We are both in are 30's and have full time jobs at present. We are doing well finacially before we saw the business. We have two new cars that we paid for the only thing we have is the house payment and other monthly bills gas, phone, and etc. We didn't need this business but we enjoyed the company and the travel the first time. We already took wonderful vacations . I was very happy where we was at. I do comparison shopping and I do use coupons or did.

The prices we found were very much comparable to other retail stores. I don't have to spend my weekend shopping at Walmart or other store. Which in turn gives me more time with my son and husband. I'm sorry you don't see this as a great chance for extra money or just for the friends. The person that sponsered us never lost touch with us over the years. I guess that makes them just a little different. I like to be around people who like to think positive. There is so much negative stuff out there. We owe it to our children to give them a positive influence. You sure can't find that on T.v.

I thank you for your time. Belinda Davis IBO

I spoke to the guy who is prospecting me today. I fished around about the educational material. I told him the numbers didn't add up on selling the product alone and wanted to see more material on the retailing of the educational material. I never really got an answer back. Go figure.

I told him straight out that my motives for joining the program had nothing to do with the program itself, but because I wanted to learn how to sell. I asked him how the members in the upline would feel about that. He said that was something they didn't need to know. I didn't tell him, but I started a tally on the number of times willful deception was implied. During this conversation, he had two strikes.

Steve

Dear Sir,

I must admit, I find some of your comments agreeable and making a great amount of sense, but overall, your page seems to be a giant pile of mis-information that even the Canadian Liberal couldn't beat. I will show you why I think this in the following e-mail. I openly admit that there are problems in the system - could you please put somewhere that not all IBO's are money-seeking scum? I don't lie, really, and don't expect anyone else to, or buy large amounts of tapes and junk. Please excuse the length, but I wanted to fit everything in. I will start with what you have on your "rebuttal" page.

Amway has created more millionaires - well, I admit that this is a very difficult question to raise, and I would like to see you admit this instead of the rather smug admission otherwise. Also, stating Forbes magazines from the mid-80's when Amway was having PR problems is unfair of today's situation.

My employer only pays a small fraction - Well, I never say this, but I would rather be making a little less at something a bit more open than sitting at a GE desk or manufacturing plant all day.

I'm saving money - O.K., let's get one thing straight. In general, Wal-Mart is cheap, not low in cost. If you're like the lady on the commercial who bought her wedding ring at Wal-Mart, you need a serious kick in the consumer part of the brain. I admit that things are cheaper in Wal-Mart, but I hate that store because is low quality and has destroyed numerous small communities in Canada only to leave town(if you want more on this, e-mail me) The same goes on the Wal-Mart never sends me a rebate check, I don't want one from there, again, e-mail for some lovely stories about crappy Wal-Mart products.

I don't like driving to Wal-Mart - thanks for admitting this is a positive for Quixtar. I love having boxes arrive at my doorstep, and you would to if you ever had to find a parking space at Parkland Mall in Red Deer so your mother can buy cheap tuna at Wal-Mart.

Buy from you're own business - yeah, makes sense to do that and your arguments are a little confusing. If you own a restaurant, you can't eat all you want at cost. Trust me, I owned several businesses along with my parents (restaurants, etc.) You have to charge yourself full price and reward later with any profits (most of which go to renovations and upgrades)

Amway makes 7 billion - um, no. This is just dumb IBO's throwing out things they don't understand. I got a 90% in Econ101, I ain't saying this.

Spent time building, etc. - Well, I think you need to work at this business. As for the with-holding of price info, you got one of the problem uplines. I never do this. Once again, the product is competitive for its quality (trust me, I'm a clean freak, and Amyway products rock, especially the PreStain stuff) :)

Your page is hurting people - No, not entirely. It is certainly discouraging the people who would never do anything anyway. As another part of your site says, 85% of people don't sponsor one other person. Ijust think there's a lot of mix-ups on your site that aren't true. I may get to this now, or save it for a future e-mail to ensure shortness of letter.

Amway works - yes, it does. Quixtar is gambling on the success of the internet, and I believe that gamble will work. At least it hasn't gone broke like the other billion of the dot com wonders. You're negative sum game site is not applicable to all. Once ag