Hi, Scott. Thanks for your website on Quixtar. I was approached in a parking lot last night by a guy who eventually asked me if I'd like to help make some money on the side with "DC International". I said no thanks, but I looked up what he was talking about and your site was invaluable sorting out the mess.

http://tongodeon.livejournal.com/477626.html

Have you thought about adding "DC International" and "Billy Florence" pages to Wikipedia? I was thinking of adding them myself, but I don't know a whole lot. Searching for "DC International" brings up a massive number of unrelated pages about Washington DC, and I wouldn't have been able to decipher "DC International" into "Dream Chasers" if I wasn't already suspicious that he was selling me a MLM.

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Lawrence S.

Hi Scott, I trust you are well!

Firstly, I big congrats…your site is great!!

I could almost devote my life to helping people escape the AMO trap….I know many people that have lost the ability to think rationally because they are very caught up in an AMO….mostly the IDA group here in Australia where we are from.

If I can ever do anything, just let me know.

I found the Merchants of deception book very useful as well.

I was involved with IDA for 2 years, from 2000 to 2001. Towards the end more and more things seemed incongruent. I started to ask some hard questions, and do some research. Naturally, I came across the tools scam… My up line emerald admitted to me that he made 50% of his money from IDA. It wasn’t just that…I felt more and more that some serious misrepresentations were being made….to many lies…I had about 35ppl in my team, was bringing 20 to functions, but I still just walked.

I came across your site also fairly early, and this was invaluable.

I had sponsored 10 personally….i was able to talk rationally with most of them…2 of them are still involved today I think!! Hopelessly lost…its sad.

Anyway, I thought I would quickly send in my story and a quick hello, and ad my support

Lastly, I was hoping that with your wealth of knowledge, you would be able to clarify a few things that I have been curious about for a long time.

Re the Amway lines of sponsorship, is Jim Dornan down line of Dexter? If he is not, we may be able to uncover another big commonly lauded deception that "Dex is the biggest so therefore we all need to worship him and do what he says"

I understand that Bill Britt is down line of Dex, is this right?

Is Ron Purveyor down line of Dex also?? And does Dex have any meaningful leaders/diamonds up line? An N21 diamond told me once that he did….who knows...so many lies and misrepresentations abound.

Is there some truth to a double crown (40 plus direct legs) in Japan?

The lines of sponsorship have always fascinated me.

Actually, this line of sponsorship thing was one of the first things that I came across that started to make me suspicious. I was involved with IDA, but Burt Guklick and Tom Avalsgard were not in my up-line /line of sponsorship. So why were they paraded as such at functions? Also, IDA was purported to have 80% of the Australian volume, and hence they new what they were doing. It occurred to me that perhaps it was the other way around….IDA had simply attracted many different leaders and lines of sponsorship, because it paid out the most on the tools. So IDA today has at least 5 different unrelated lines of sponsorship/leaders and its very incongruent with what they say.

Later I discovered that the only crown in Australia, Mitch Sala, who heavily promotes N21, and all of his down line, who also promote N21, is actually a Yager diamond, down line of Yager. Somewhere along the line he chose to support Jim D. So the point is that there is absolutely no correlation between your real Amway line of sponsorship, and your tools/AMO up line/ line of sponsorship.

To me this is very damning.

Anyway, take care and keep up the good work.

Hi Scott

You're site, coupled with other research that I've done (FTC, Better Business Bureau, IBM, Microsoft, other companies and government sites) has provided me with enough material to really decide that I did not want to become an IBO, member, nor a client of Quixtar. I would, however, like to tell my story of how I came into it. I believe it is rather unique.

Mid to late April '06 I believe it was that I attended my first meeting. What got me into it was not the casual approach of a friend or someone I didn't know. I saw two of my friends on my floor (I'm a college student) that kept going to these business meetings that I they didn't really explain what they were about. I suppose that he couldn't put a 40 minute seminar (which have been free for us since I guess they didn't have to rent out rooms at school) into a 2 minute sound byte. I was curious because I didn't want to be left in the dark so I went to one of these meetings, which is really a very small seminar.

I was comfortable there at least since people there were students and people I knew already. The presenter, a junior at my school, very charismatic and very cool, showed us the plan, starting with the franchising, asking about dreams, asking what we would do if our uncle dropped dead leaving us 200 million dollars and we had 5 years to live and later going into the revenue curves and the percent use of commodity S curve. You probably know what this is but for someone who is reading this that doesn't, the "working till I'm 65" graph, a gradually decreasing slope to 0, the "I'm in my own business graph" whose slope, starting at 0, gradually increases, and the combination which is a just the latter added ontop of the former after the first graph stops rising. This did not really entice me until he went to the S curve, showing the estimate that E-commerce would hit that magical 10%, and then everyone in the e-commerce business would soar into wealth. Specificially, he used the statement "It's like knowin that Microsoft is going to explode and getting in on the ground floor". This was the first thing that really excited me at that first meeting. Then he showed how easy it was to do 100PV and get others to do the same (without mentioning once the member client or 70% rules). All he said to the effect of retail is that "you make 7.50 as the 3% of your $250 plus the $80 (or in other meetings, $75) that you make (by selling) or save (by diverting your buying habits) so that's 87.50 in your first month. Now 7.50 doesn't seem like much, but it's more than you get from..." and he goes on to mention some stores or companies we buy from regularly. In a later meeting, a higher up (I don't know how much higher) said that 1/3 of products are lower priced than market retail, a 1/3 are equally priced, and a 1/3 priced higher "because of quality (concentrated products, higher quality protein bars, energy drinks, protein shakes and such. I believe it was you and if it wasn't I apologize, but I enjoyed the analysis of some concentrated cleaner, how it is a great value but it is dilutable to last a lifetime). Not that I knew much at the time. He went through the whole spiel about the 6 to 8 month and 2 to 5 year plans, how to get 300 to 350 revenue so that ontop of $250 to get 100 PV plus $50 standing order, "the rest (of revenue) is pure profit" So I scheduled a follow up meeting and my upline and I went to see his upline.

The follow up was actually very nice, there was no pressure to register quickly or any nonsense like that. My uplines upline is a good guy at heart and I have nothing against him, and he wasn't pushing the system at all, which is always a plus. Not much happened there except that I received the 'how to invite someone to a meeting on the phone' sheet. This was the first system that I'd seen, and I already did not like it, although I did not say anything. It was sounded like a scumbaggy thing to say, no offense to those who use it because I've seen it work and I've seen it not work.

So I attended a few more meetings after that including one open meeting that was free for the my first time as a a prospective IBO. I took notes at these meetings but not on the material since it was all the same presentation (the first 3 meetings I went to with the same presenter said almost the exact same words, motions, drawings, etc., and this guy was who I would go to for help. He's two years older than me and started about 2 years before I looked into the business). I took notes on how to do the presentation and put my own spin on it so I could be prepared for when I started doing presentations which it luckily never came to. Soon I brought one friend to a meeting and he liked the way the plan looked and I had a follow up with him and the initial presenter, who is the one that everyone goes to. He could be considered a mentor to all of us, and we were all in, or going to be in his group. However, after looking at the prices on Quixtar, I soon realized this: "Of course they can afford to give the performance bonuses to people, they overcharge on their products". Now I didn't search for thousands of different products and compare them but I within 10 searches like cereal, granola bars, detergents and paper that they all cost a good deal above what I could get at my 1 minute away supermarket. Right then I knew that no client would ever want to buy from Quixtar unless they were hooked on some product or they actually found value in the products, which is very hard to do. Members get the wholesale discount, but not much as I found out from one of my friends who is an IBO. Even at those prices, it's not worth buying Quixtar products that could be purchased at Costco, Sam's mart, or any other wholesale retailer.

Although I was really excited after the open meeting they had at some hotel, and although I had bought that small flip chart explaining the plan (which I plan on keeping just to show any prospective IBO's the faults of the plan that have nothing to do with the presenter, not to mention the crap they will get for 12 dollars). They almost had me hook line and sinker because I was excited about seeing all these people who said that they made money and had a lot of free time. I also thought that, because I saw the plan so many times, that I knew everything about working this business (credit to BWW for doing as well on me as they did). So I had attended a bunch of meetings, learned the basic plan and what-not. But then there was a period when we were all busy with final exams and I was able to sit back and think about what I was really getting into. Then I chanced upon your website in my search for some truth. I was so happy to see such truth that I referred a few people to your site and some of your links (Now give me a 3% check haha). I read your analysis of Rich Dad, Poor Dad and I must say I'd actually heard of the book before your analysis, hearing that it was a great book to read to rethink your finances (HA!). Why, Operah? Why can't you check your guests' backgrounds? Hopefully, Kiyosaki's reputation will fall to A Million Little Pieces. Anyway, after reading a lot of the material on your site, and I mean a lot of the cases, stories, and statistics, I realized that this Quixtar business opportunity is not for me. Even if I could make money by selling products and system, it would most likely become unethical to do so. This is when i called my would-be downline and upline to tell them my decision. Then I had to tell my mentor about my decision, who left me with some choice words that I didn't expect from him. This will show that no matter how nice you think someone is, they're not necessarily you're friend.

I said that I was not interested in becoming an IBO or buying from Quixtar, that it was not for me and that I could not handle selling 70% of my products in retail. He told me that (paraphrase) I've certainly put a lot of thought into what I can't achieve. He said specifically "I thought you were stronger than this, but I guess I was wrong". He also said "Ok well if you want to work for someone else till you're 65, go ahead". I'm willing to bet a standing order that he's been told to use these lines or has practiced them before.

Thank you so much for keeping this site up for so long and doing such good research on anything you write about. I'm still trying to find the SA-4400 that they brag about having as their indisputable proof of legitimacy (mentioned in a cd lent to me by this same guy). I would appreciate it if you did NOT post my email address nor my name if it appears. If you post this, great, yet another testimonial to support your claims. If not, likely it is because you have enough material like this anyway.

Best of Luck

well... after reading your article let me say this .... all you do is talk about the bad things..... which.... let me correct you ..... those STATS you have for for new people that hane been in the business for like a month..... your acting like people only do $200 worth of stuff every month..... your a pretty funny person..... and by the way those $200's of products people buy are THE BEST! beating everything by a long shot. wait a minute ...... oh i see whats going on here..... you tried quixtar at one point in your life and it dint work for you because you have to passion and guts to build a business.. haha, so your trying to make quixtar look bad because you were not good enough for this business

<new note>

hey listen...this is Ru...im a friend of the guy u just emailed talking crap about a MULTI BILLION dollar business.

i dontk now where the hell you get offf thinking that its a scam! or...it doesnt work! were you some guy that tried it and just couldnt do it? cause this business only tolerates people with GUTS. if your someone without a backbone...

your gonna flip burgers.

oh...by the way...you say it doesnt work? lemme tell you something...MY OWN PARENTS ARE ABOUT LESS THAN A YEAR AWAY FROM FINANCIAL FREEDOM.

i know thats a phrase that they dont talk about at your job. but its ok...cause u wont find financial freedom at a job anyways. so yeah...my own parents are successful in it...which automatically shows me that IT DOES WORK. oh yeah...and all their best friends?

are already multi millionares FROM THIS OPPORTUNITY. so dont talk before you know THE REAL FACTS. www.thisbiznow.com is a site where u can actually see what its about

even the CEO of Circuit City says good things...and who are you? are u more successful than him? I DONT THINK SO?

and former NFL players are in this bussiness too. along with political people such as the former mayor of New York City Mayor Julliani .

if u still dont think it works after that information and the site i provided....

thats your own call. as for me...im on my way to a life u can only dream about...

literally.

- Kevin And Ru

My boyfriend and i are in our mid 50's.    His daughter and her husband are involved with Quixtar and it's going on 2 years now.   I have visited your website and it scares me to think they are being brainwashed, etc.  I had my doubts when they told us they were investing in this.  I mentioned pyramid company and they bit my head off and said it is NOT a pyramid company.  They no longer watch tv, only eat the foods they purchase through Quixtar, swear that company sells the best products, etc.  it goes on and on.  I fear they will loose everything with this company.  How can we help them?

Hey Scott,

I would like to thank you for putting some hard work into your site and it felt wonderful to read it through.

I was an IBO (2) years ago and Im still building myself up again mentally and financially.

I would like to know if you have any suggestions in regard to really "letting" this whole experience go. There were some horrible things that I learned here in NYC about my upline and when I did myself and my entire team left during a convention in Philly. I had strong relationships with my organization ( pin level 2500) and I think they are suffering to some degree as well.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Its funny that they were always upset in NYC about working for " the man". Well, I have been in corporate sales for a number of years and im starting to make the right money again.

Tks,

Brian

I'm a little confused on the bashing of Quixtar. I have been in the business for about 4 months and I am making some extra cash. I don't understand how anyone could say that Quixtar is a bad business, I buy XS energy for $1.80 a can. Red Bull is atleast $2.00. When I buy XS I make a friend of mine a little money instead of some vip at Red Bull. I can get Whirlpool appliances cheaper at Quixtar than at Sears or Costco plus I get a 2 year warranty instead of a six month. I see alot of people angry with Quixtar, but don't offer a better way of making money or living life. There isn't anything that says you have to buy vitamins you don't want. It's an online store just buy the stuff you want and if you like something they you tell others. Why is that such a terrible business. No one had to pay more than $200 ( $100 was product) to get started which was tottaly refundable within the first six months and any purchase also had a six month money back policy. If anyone lost money at Quixtar it was because they were to lazy to call Quixtar and tell them they were not satified with the product and wanted there money back. The only thing this site does is take a dream and a fullfilling life away from someone who had a chance to do something with theres, instead of working for 40 hours a week for 40 years of there life.

Hey,

I was getting some information on Quixtar because I was brought to a meeting and bought into it right away and I actually started and paid the subscription fee or whatever it is and I ordered the starter pack and everything. I also was convinced that I should place my order right away and meet my PV so that I can set a good example for the people following me.

I did all of this without researching online which was a big mistake but I didn't look into it because my upline told me that he wasted time researching and that is why his success was postponed. Anyways, I came across your website and realized how deceptive these people really are. I cancelled my order that I made to reach my PV level but I didn't to the startup order in time to cancel that. However, I was told that we could get a refund on our start up fee. Is this true and do you know how I would be able to go about doing that?

I just want to tell you that I appreciate your efforts that you have made with this site and it probably saved myself and my friends a lot of money.

I don't think that the whole idea behind Quixtar is bad, in fact I think it is a great idea. However, the deception and the lies that have been implemented into the whole thing make it something that I don't want to be a   part of. Thanks again, and if you could get back to me with that information I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

Hi Scott, I recently subscribed to Quixtar. I met this guy who seem to be a diamond member (or something like that). Even though I am a skeptical person I found myself involved and believing the "dream". The truth is that they never give you examples with real dollars other than focusing on the dollars you have potential to make if you work hard and commit to the business.

Two weeks after I registered, I came across a couple friend of mine, so I offered to "sell" the plan. They immediately advised me to quit that immediately and we went through a real example and I saw clearly that I was going to dish out money vs make money.

I wrote the guy - my upline - to tell him that I wanted concrete examples and asking him when I was going to make the money etc. First he answered in a way to again sell the plan, the dream. When I told him he wasn't answering my question that I needed something concrete he told me that it was OK to quit, that if I felt I wasn't suited for the business then it was OK for me to quit. So I did that. Unfortunately I saw this site now, as I was curious to understand if I perhaps had made a mistake in quitting.

I would love to be able to pass the word around about the fakeness of this business. One thing I don't understand is how the business partners "don't" know of the business dealings of Amwar/Quixtar, Interbiz (I was told of interbiz, not sure if this is only for Canada).

Interesting - If you need a volunteer to spread the truth, pls. count me in.

Nerina

I've been an IBO for about 10 years now and I can honestly say I have not made a penny from the Amway or Quixtar plan. I do like the Amway products over other commercial products, so I stayed a member. Every so often I do find commercial products through Amway/Quixtar that are less expensive. I equate Amway as a membership to a wholesale club such as BJ's or Sam's.

I will agree that some distributors have a certain uneasy glow in their eye when they speak of the business. But I have also seen the same thing with other people within other ventures. Out of the 10 years I have been an IBO, I think I have talked to my upline maybe 10-20 times. No, I do not buy the tapes and yes I do think they push those tapes too much. It is nice to hear others success stories, but I never seemed to get any real business knowledge from them. Although the tape "Pigs Don't Know Pigs Stink" is a good listen. I would recommend it for anyone in any line of work or business venture. There is much truth to it.

The reality is... if you have the time to spend and want to spend the time building the business, treat the business as a business, and tell the truth and maitain a high moral integrity...you can make a success of the business. I bought the Amway business because I liked the business model, not how my upline or support group made me feel. My upline was worse off financially than me, so they had nothing to show me how well the business works for them. They did seem to spend to much time and money on seminars and tapes....seminars and tapes want make you rich..they may get you involved with a network of people...but that does you no good when that network of people are already buying and selling the same thing you are. I would suggest you get involved with the local city and county commerce...that is where you will sell your commercial line and where you can influence those who are not already involved in the same business. COMMON SENSE BUSINESS PRACTICES.

Amway/Quixtar is a business vehicle, thats it. You need to make that vehicle run, just as with ANY business plan. If you have the hundred bucks, sign up, buy some soap and do some reading. Visit other business information sites and get some business knowledge, maybe even take a college course in business. The Amway business plan is a legitimate plan and does offer a good potential. You just have to remember, you want get rich over night and it take a lot of hard work...just as ANY business plan. What hurts Amway is the IBO's who do not practice good ethics. It could be because they are blinded by their own greed. Once you notice this, you do not have to listen to them, or communicate in any fashion....it's been 8 years since I have spoken to mine. It's my business and when I get ready I will start it up and if not then I won't. The products are good products, so I will keep buying.

And from another analysis standpoint...the ney-sayers are people who thought Amway was going to make them rich beyond all belief in just a few months and they bought tapes and went to seminars and bought some more tapes and went to some more seminars...etc, but never really worked the business plan. They also had their hopes raised by those who were also trying to raise their own hopes...and when they finally realized that they do not have what it takes to make a business profitable, they blamed Amway. They didn't blame themselves for not seeking real business knowledge or researching other business plans. They put their hopes in other people telling them what to do.....That is what most people call a job...where you work for a boss.

Enough...I can rant all day. Maybe my tidbits can help others.

Lane

Scott,

I just ran across your Amway blog after searching for infromation/confirmation when a friend and former crossline told me that Paul and Debbie Miller had split.

I was in the Britt/Miller/Winters/Markiewicz/Leininger organization with a few directs and rubies between us and the Leiningers. My upline sponsors were my friends from church before the business and have long since parted ways. I actually mourn for the loss of that and other friendhips. I hear they are Emeralds now, but at what cost?

The charade began unravelling when my sponsor let it slip that directs got a profit margin on the sale of tapes and books. Because we had been friends before hand, he let me in on this "secret" to motivate me to go direct. I began doing the math and began suspecting that the higher-echelon "leaders" made a healthy profit from the "BSM's" It was later confirmed when I found out that Britt made more from his BSM business than he made from selling Amway products and the volume of his downline.

Now I see that many of the leaders have fallen into disgrace for one reason or another. It was a very expensive lesson to learn, but I am so glad I left and never looked back.

Thanks for keeping people informed,

Stewart

Texas

Thanks for the note!

You're welcome, Scott. Don't let the ambots get you down. A good chunk of my life, all of my savings, and two maxed-out credit cards were given to the
"dream" until I woke up. But you know what chapped my hide the most? Knowing that Paul Miller was "doing" his secretary for the entire time I was in "the
business" all the while preaching his "values" from stage.

I wish you all the best...

Scott,

I would like to thank you for your web site. I pass it along to everyone tempted by Amway/Quixtar financial freedom.

I fell into the Amway trap around 1991 and wasted two years in International Networking association (INA) led by Leif Johnson. My diamond was Larry McCracken and emerald Mark Grossi. We were located in Merced CA. Being in the Air Force and always looking for exit money Castle Air Force Base was a feeding ground for INA. Most of the down line for McCracken was military looking for a better life. And yes they fed us the usual bull associated with the "biz".

After a few weeks I was up to my ears with books and tapes. Functions and house meetings kept me away from my family 3-4 nights per week along with the weekly road trip with my emerald up line. I wanted the rewards the business offered and worked hard to get it.

To make a long story short my wife and I were attending FED in Sacramento California. I was tired from working all night and driving almost three hours to see the opening ceremonies. My kids were in a hotel room with a sitter while we waited for the event to begin. As I looked around at 17000 plus eager to be diamonds I realized the numbers in the audience compared to the speakers. Twenty speakers compared to over 17000 in the crowd. The math was there…right in front of me. One thousand to one. One thousand distributors to make a diamond? Maybe it is called Quixtar because The Matrix is taken.

I looked at my wife and told her what was on my mind and we both realized the odds of going anywhere in this business. After a couple of weeks we cancelled our tapes and books. Of course our emerald up line told us we would never make it with out the tools. He was right. We never did because we quit. We went back to Tide and Frosted Flakes and SA-8 became a thing of the past.

After reading your site I realized where the money for tools went. I had suspicions, but when I asked the question the answer was "for support of functions". My overall loss was low compared to today’s standards. I was lucky.

Jeff

Is there any class action lawsuits against Amway? I got out before I lost too much money on those stupid tapes, but did like the products. The upline made it sound so easy to make good money.

I went to one function in Fresno and didn't like the bible belt speeches, but my upline said "If you become Diamond, etc. you can be up there and say whatever you want".

I knew it was the wrong business for me, when every friend and everyone I invited to my uplines's first meeting to help me out ran away after they found out it was Amway.

Colleen

I have never been a distributor, but I worked for many years for a tax preparer that specialised in the Amway/Quixtar business. Having seen 1000's of tax returns filed by distributors over 20 years I can say that in my experience it was probably only about 1% who actually made a net profit from the business and even less than that who made large amounts of money. I guess what I am saying is that whilst it is true that this business can make money, it is the exception rather than the rule. I admire your site, and I think that it alerts people to the fact that the promises made by many distributors are wildly overstated.

Simon

The truth regarding Sandra Payne - she died of a disease called Pick's ( form of brain dementia) and Tom "paid" for her care- well not really since Sandra had a net worth of over $1,000,000 when she married Tom. Sandra had an outstanding and very successful career in Real Estate. Before divorcing her Tom managed to get all of her asset placed in his name. She was a successful businesswoman long before she became involved with Tom and Amway. Tom took her home, her beach home, her lake home, and even sold her Mercedes to one of his down line before the divorce was finalized.

SO much for Family Values-

Scott, this is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You apparently have never made this business model work like I have. Instead, you ruin and crap on others peoples dreams. This business takes guts and effort. If you applied yourself to something good as much as you have screwed this up, you might get wealthy and not have to steal it from others...........get a life.........

Hi Scott:

I just finished surfing our Amway website - I can honestly say it is a monumental achievement! I congratulate you!

As a former IBO in the early 1990's my Amway experience was very similar to your own. I bought a kit tried to contact a few friends and all I did was piss off alot of people. I soon came to the conclusion that the products are way over priced and have no real competitive advantage.

Of course the real money in Amway as we both know is in the tools or BSM's which of course "are run at no profit or a slight loss" What a load of S___ !

My only regret is that your site and the Internet was not around in the early 1990's - It could have saved me alot of money and frustration.

By the way I really loved the "Negative Sum Game" analysis on your website. Are you a native of Utah? I grew up in Salt Lake City, (went to Olympus High School) but have lived in Houston for the last 10 years.

I know you must get millions of e-mails but please e-mail me if at all possible I would love to hear from you.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Regards:

Cary D. Y.

Hey Scott,

I've been skimming your AmQuix website off and on for few years now. I ended my business relationship with Quixtar in 2002 after 6 years - don't even buy the products. For the record, during my tenure, 150+ total downline in 30 personal legs THAT I BUILT MYSELF, 35-40 sot's, 35-60 regularly attending functions, and STP 8-12 times per month with gusts up to 20. Still, never any real cash flow - never got much past 2500. Funny thing to me is that at the time I quit, I came to pretty much the same conclusions about the business as you've made public. (Built on the backs of lesser IBO's, system inequality, loss of time, money, family, etc.). After any length of time in the business, seems most people would be hard-pressed to not understand these things.

I just wanted to let you know that as I was enjoying my quiet Sunday morning today, which by the way, after Quixtar, I never take for granted anymore, I thought I'd skip on over to your site just to see "what's new". After some cursory reading, I happened upon your page entitled "How To Get Out Of The System". I just want to say, it's right on the money. Although my own upline ALWAYS treated me with respect, even when I decided to end my business efforts, the process was exactly the same. If you're an IBO who's on the fence and reading this post, here's a message for you:

When it's time to go, just pull the plug and get your life back. And don't be too hard on yourself. You did what you thought was right until you knew better. And now that you do, you can make a change. Isn't that what you've been taught? And leave the guilt behind too. Believe me, your family needs you more than you need this "business". And your "IBO Friends" will get over it quicker than you think (trust me, they will). And when you're done, if any "old" friendships were worth something, go repair the damage. It's worth it. Then move on. As Dex says "it's just a decision". Does that mean it's all been a waste? Tough call. For me, no. Values still remain and serve me well: set goals, be persistent, self motivated, continuous learning, positive always, and a friend to those who need one. Those same values will serve you well too. But you know what? You don't need to be a good IBO for that. You just need to be a good human.

Take care,

Andy L.

Dr. Mr. Larsen,

Thank you so much for your website. My uncle, aunt, mother, father and a pair of cousins are currently involved with Quixtar. Technically, my brother and I
are too (we're "IBO's") but only because my father insisted on paying the money for us to join so that we could "have a spot", on what my husband and I refer to
as "the profit snake". In any case, I shouldn't have let him do it, but I did.

This is not the first time that this sort of thing has happened. My parents were also Amway distributors and Primerica "financial analysts". When they weren't
doing that, they were reading the Frank Peretti books when I was a teenager and deciding that I had been chosen by God for spiritual warfare--because they
didn't like my friends. Anyway, you get an idea of what we're dealing with here.

I will be coming up with a way to gently suggest that they checkout your site. I'm thinking something along the lines of... "Listen, I found some information and
have some concerns. I don't know if it's necesarily true, but you should look at it. You are more involved in the business and will be able to tell if anything rings a bell." My dad is actually very logical in all aspects that don't involve religion or pyramid schemes, so maybe it will plant a seed. If not, I suppose I can always just come right out and ask how much they made from Amway and Primerica.

Anyway, thanks again.

Sincerely,
T S

PS--If you can't tell, I am uncomfortable with actually having to be the "parent" in this situation. Does this mean I'm finally a grown-up?

Hi Scott, I hope you are doing well. I check your site frequently for updates and by golly, I am never disappointed. As I was reading some of your latest pages posted, I recalled several conversations I had with the attorney representing RIAA and I believe I sent him some audio tapes from major Britt functions in the 1980s and 1990s. It warms my heart to know that those tapes may have played a small role in nailing these crooks. I also recollect asking my sponsor if he would be interested in a tape buy-back of over 100 training tapes that I had left in my library. He of course was not interested but the law firm representing Proctor &Gamble gladly sent me a check for those tapes; one of the more profitable transactions I experienced in my Amway career. Keep up the good work.

best regards,

Jim 

Hi Scott,

My husband and I were recently introduced to "Team Builders," (a Quixtar distributor) through a friend. When my friend told me about the business
over the phone, I was skeptical, but since I trusted her I allowed the Team Builders representatives to come over to our house the following weekend and
explain the business plan to us. The plan confused us. We were told we'd make a ton of money buying stuff online, we wouldn't have to sell a thing.
We didn't understand how this was possible unless this was a pyramid scheme.

They gave us some CDs to listen to over the weekend. Then they scheduled another meeting for Monday. We listened to the CD's and looked at their
website (www.myteambuilders.com access code 2331913) and felt completely stupid. We didn't understand what this business was about. I called my
friend who referred me to this program, and asked her some key questions. She told me that the business was to buy stuff and then maybe sell some of
the products to friends. She said she signed up only a few weeks ago so she hasn't really built a business yet, she was working on choosing her product.
Now I realize that she had no idea what this business is about. She thought it was about having make up parties (like Avon) and having some
fun... not going around harassing everyone you know. She was misled too! (I'm working on how I'm going to tell her about this lie before it’s too
late).

But I digress.... On Monday the Team Builders people came over to the house. They signed me up as an IBO and then told me that I had to purchase
monthly educational CD's and books at a whopping $90 a month. Fortunately, I read the contract and noticed that I didn't have to purchase the materials
to retain my status as an IBO. I asked how I might get out of the educational material shipment, if I signed up for them (I asked three times!), and didn't ever get an answer. Thankfully I only purchased the first set of CD's with cash $80(I didn't sign up with my credit card on file). Although it was the biggest waste of money ever, I ended up learning a lot from them....

When my husband came home, he looked at the web site an immediately figured out what we signed up for... His parents used to buy LOC products from a
friend, when he was a kid (but were never involved in distributing). He told me we signed up for Amway. I immediately canceled our membership and
began doing research about this scam on the internet. We also listened to the CDs and realized that they were created as a means to make money for the
"up-line" and an efficient brainwashing mechanism.

Although we were IBOs for one day, we are totally disgusted with this scam and want to do something about it.We would like to give you our CDs, a blank contract, the business plan and all of the other information we obtained. If this is something that would be useful to you, please send us your address. If it isn't useful, we plan to throw everything in the garbage.

Thank you for the information that you've published on the internet. More people should be aware of this scam before they get in it too deep.

Scott,

I have enjoyed your website dedicated to exposing the "untold" stories of the Amway/Quixtar business. I was once very involved in "The Business" and truly enjoyed my experiences, as well as the many wonderful relationships I developed over the years through my association with my group. I have however stopped all activity with my Amway/Quixtar business over the past 10 years or so, primarily due to my discoveries of the truth behind "The Plan". I actually discovered the truth behind the "Tools" business a few years before your site from other internet pioneers who exposed the real story (Jeff Probst’s site in the mid-late 90’s).

To be honest, I was truly heartbroken for quite a while, realizing that I had placed a lot of hope and dreams on a system that was basically built upon deception. There are wonderful people involved at most levels in this business, but the reality is once you hit a certain level of leadership, you are confronted with the truth that most of the real money in the Amway business is garnered through "The System"….not through building your Amway business as was always promoted. This news was difficult to accept, due to the many relationships, but it was the truth nonetheless.

I’m sure that the higherarchy of distributor leadership now disclose (to some degree) the income aspects of the tool business. Yet I doubt they are 100% truthful with their downline even today. The reality is, the true income of the tool bizz goes against the Attorney General’s separation between legitimate business and pyramid schemes. The tool bizz throws this business across the line into the definition of illegal pyramid schemes in my opinion.

Anyway, I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.

The reason for my email is I still have a few boxes of old Amagrams, catalogs, manuals and other printed material. Before I through it all away, I was wondering if you would like me to send the material to you? If so, give me a shipping address and I’ll send the info to you. I will take care of the shipping costs.

I just thought this material might aid you in your quest to bring the true story of the Amway/Quixtar business to light.

Don

My wife (Karen Fehring) & I separated after she joined Amway despite my concerns & then started and affair with her upline Andrew McKinnon which caused the loss of his marriage as well

Would love to know more about Amway, I think they are still active & are even off to England in May

Anthony J, Fehring, MSc

Bro, get over yourself and learn the business before you start knocking it. I’m a current IBO with Quixtar and I make a residual income of about $4000/mo. I started my business about 6 months ago and I’ve quit my full time job. Stick it up your ass bro…..your information about Quixtar is about as bunk as a piece of my shit. Don't knock shit just because you're too lazy to get off your ass and go make something work for yourself. People are living great lives due to it, just because yours sucks, does not give you the right to discourage others....Take care.

Jascon Scott IBO  

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the note. Are you doing a lot of retailing? If not what is your structure like?

Scott

I really hate to be an asshole like that, but I get so annoyed when folks try to knock this business. One thing people have to understand (including yourself), is that the internet is a HUGE money making tool that just needs to be used in the correct manner. This is what Quixtar allows people to do. As for your questions, no I am not a "Power player" as you call it, my business is super simple to run and has required minimal efforts to get up and running. Do I do a lot of retailing? NOt sure what you mean by that, but basically in a nutshell, the business is as easy to run as it is asking people to shop at your website. Thats virtually all I do, if someone asks me how I began the business in the first place, I explain a little to them, and if they're still interested, I then sit them down and thoroughly explain Quixtar to them. If they're still interested, that is where they then become an IBO themselves.

Quixtar is an amazing opportunity that only pestimistic, negative, lazy, non motivated people decide not to give it a shot. Those who give it a shot and put 1/3rd the effort in to this than that of the effort they put in to their worthless 40-50 hr/wk jobs succeed and they succeed ver well. My Dad sits above me and his biz is on fire right now as well. There are ZERO catches and this plan does WORK.

Again, sorry for such a rude email from the start, but like I said, I get frustrated as all hell hearing all the negativity from those whom don't quite get it.

Jason

Hi Scott- I was doing a bit of unsolicited research for a friend tonight, who's 18 year old twin girls just got lured into Quixstar. My friend, the mom, doesn't like it, but is not sure what to do about it.

Here's how it started - while touring our local community college a couple of weeks ago, my 18 year old son met up with an old high school aquaintance. I left them to talk while I went to find the office we were looking for and never gave it another thought. Then, the other night, one of the twin girls of my friend gave my son a call - again, this could happen without any suspicion. But, after the phone call, my son came out to me. (names have been changed, of course) "That was Jane", he said. "She was with Joe, who we saw at the community college last week. They're both involved in this get-rich scheme...I thought it was weird that when I met up with Joe at the college, and tried to get info from him about the school, all he kept asking for was my number, and wouldn't even talk about school ." Well, red flags went up all over the place in this mother's heart and mind, and I told my son NOT to speak to them. I was surprised that my friend's daughter was somehow involved. My son assured me that he just told Joe that if he called he would listen but wasn't interested, but I said No, I wanted him to go a step further than that, and not answer any phone calls on his cell phone if he did not recognize the number. I told my son that people could be incredibly persuasive and make things sound very appealing even over the phone. My son agreed, and said that eventually if he had to answer/talk to him, he would tell him he'd been rejecting his calls because he wasn't interested. As far as I know, Joe hasn't contacted him yet, altho I can't be positive.

In speaking with my friend tonight, she mentioned that her girls were involved in Quixstar, and almost apologized for them calling my son. Her girls have been at "meetings" constantly, and blew off work and school to attend them and do other Quixstar related things, like attend a conference last minute in Kentucky (we're in PA.) That came as news to my friend, that her 18 year olds were off to Kentucky unexpectedly. They have told her, their mom, that if she is not open to listen, they're not going to talk about it with her, but already it is consuming their lives. They are out to meetings almost every night, and blowing off responsibilities that she is expecting of them. She, as a single mom, feels there is not much she can do since they're 18, I suppose.

I am now even more motivated to go home and talk to my son and make sure he has not been contacted, or, if he has, make sure he is not considering any offer. Do you have any advice for my friend and her girls? I printed out the emails on your website and will deliver them to her later tonight when I see her. Thanks for any advice you can give- B. Coulton

I appreciate your information on Quixtar, mostly because it echos my underlying unease after seeing a couple presentations without signing up. Emotion, rather than logic, seems to be the key to Quixtar selling IBOs. Most people are looking for the life and future that Quixtar promises, and it is disheartening to see how deceitful they are about dashing such dreams through misinformation and manipulation. In the insurance industry, which I was long ago part of, it was called lying through ommision, a necessary evil if you wanted to make 'real' money (which is why I had to leave the industry).

I am simply looking for a program that allows you to make a living selling a worthwhile product at a fair price, and all the better if you get others to join you in your success, for I am pro MLM in concept. Quixtar's lie of sales first, when recruiting and selling training tools is really the key to success, killed my enthusiasm. I'm one of those weird people who has to prove to himself that something is valid before sharing it with others. My contact list is C, B, A, not the other way around. If I can't sell 'it' to a stranger, what's the point?

Anyway, thanks for the time you took to put the info out. I have not found, yet, a single 'independent' site that is pro Quixtar. Interesting.

Hello dear Sir,

I want to ask you some questions about Amway, as I read the info spread on the www.amquix.info site.

how do you know that this bussiness is not profitable and that it is just brainwashing people doing it? Have you tried it? or, are you just a former employee at Amway who got fired and now wants some revenge?

I am doing this bussiness for 5 years now and I never hears anyone complaining about it. I can tell you that i am earning almost $500,000 a year and I am growing it each day that passes. Can you tell me why you believe that this is a non profit bussiness and fauduloud? I am waiting your reply.

Thank you,

Tanase Cristian, Romania

Monday, April 10, 2006

Hello Scott,

It’s been since 1978 when I and my then husband, Len Guerin, went direct under Larry & Joannie Gammell who were Emeralds under Jim & Connie Agard. We lived in Litchfield, NH then. Larry and Joannie lived in Ashburnham, MA. (Len & I divorced in 1983, a situation that was imminent long before our sponsorship into Amway by another couple who were then under Larry & Joannie Gammell.)

I only just came in contact with your website last week. I devoured every word. It was nothing short of stunning news to read of all the split-ups. I feel great compassion for Tom Payne losing his two sons and first wife to suicide. Having come from a family where a brother sibling committed suicide, I can only relate to his pain, no matter what his story.

After going direct in 1978, my first husband, Len, and I went to Ada, Michigan, met the late Mr. Jay Van Andel and were warmly received into the business. We went voting member 6 months later. Broke off several directs in one strong line, but never quite got beyond that.

I left the business circa 1980. I couldn’t take the crap with books and tapes and the religion element which crept up and became more forceful and judgmental with time. …weekends away on family holidays, calling everyone a "loser" who wasn’t in the business, money money money going out with very little coming in, endless line of tapes and books nobody wanted….. And, we worked the business for several years, 24/7. It was their way or the highway. If you did not conform, you were ostracized.

When we were in the business, David did all of Jim Agard’s sound and mixing for quite a while -- he built two large speakers that were at least 5 ft tall each -- until David also left the business and went through the demise of his own marriage also. That was over 20 years ago. As said in the opening lines of a famous novel by Charles Dickens, "it was the best of times and it was the worst of times."

It was the greatest learning era of my life. It was the most exciting. It was the most painful. It was at time rewarding. It was a very revealing experience which allowed me to learn a great deal about myself. I admired Jim & Connie Agard and I feel remorse upon hearing they split. I did not look upon Larry and Joanie Gammell as great leaders, but they were a nice couple with nice children, Jay and Erin -- a nice young teenager and a cute little girl. I could not relate to Larry & Joannie. They really did not have anything I wanted, and I think Joannie knew that.

Nor could I relate to the Amway philosophy with reference to the woman walking ten paces behind her man. Never bought that crock. We were prisoners of the Amway philosophy and I did not like that part of the journey. I can’t remember one damned TV show or the most popular music of those lost years. Where was I? At meetings and more meetings and seminars and seminars until I was immersed in the muck and every time I tried to climb out, I was pulled back down to embrace the very thing I detested. What ever happened to just selling soap! It really took me a couple of years to wake up and see the light.

But, in spite of all that and much more, these people I met along the way were a positive experience for me. In learning about them, I discovered a great deal about the real world, about deceit, about what people will do for money, and how much they will compromise their priciples. I did not like to see men running around acting like bodyguards to some of the big pins. There was something disturbing about all that. One day, I realized I was dried up, inside and out, empty and hurting badly. I took the bull by the horns, hurt a lot of people inadvertenly, and changed the direction of my life. And, I did. And, I could write a book, really, a book. But, no need for that.

I got myself divorced from Len in 1982, got a great job in Florida -- a company that paid my way down along with relocation monies, got myself a great apartment in Altamonte Springs, Florida. David eventually came down from NY and chased me until I married him in 1984. I now lead the life of a diamond. I have more than I ever dreamed of and when I look around, I have all the trappings now that I couldn’t wait to have back in 1974. I am a free woman and I do not walk behind my husband. But, the entire Amway experience is probably one of the biggest highlights of my life. For me, it was an education about people and what separates the genuinely nice people from the greedy ones. Ironically, I encountered Christ and underwent a deep spiritual experience during those years, but it was not because of what Amway was teaching, but rather by what I detested in Amway, and my experience did not come from within Amway. Thank God!

I wonder what ever happened to Jim and Connie, Larry and Joannie, other than getting divorced. It’s only natural to wonder, after all, they were a part of the daily continuity of my life for several years. I also wonder what happened to Ron & Joyce Metcalfe of Nashua, NH and of Paul and Debbie from Boston, and many other folks who were part of the fabric of my Amway life in the late 70’s.

For those reading this who know me, my daughter, Michele, is beautiful, did a ton of modeling in Florida, had a bad two year marriage which resulted in one beautiful 8 year old boy. She is now remarried to great guy who is a rocket technician on the space program at Cape Kennedy. They live in Titusville. We are in the west Orlando area. David has his own architectural software business. It’s been a great 21 years with him. Anyone who knew David will understand. We are growing old together.

I’d love to hear from anyone who crossed our paths during those incredible Amway years in New England.

God bless you,

Marie (now known as Rusty) (former last name "Guerin") Wilson

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know not only how pathetic your site is, but also how ignorant you are. Just because you spent more time obsessing over Quixtar and how it didn't work for you rather than on your own business, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

This is what I don't get about people like you. Sure, if the business doesn't work for you, great. If it's too much time consuming and money consuming that's great. It's not for everyone. But then to have a website with tons of pages dedicated to poor, broke, loser's opinions on the business "Oh this doesn't work" or "it's a scam" It's not a scam, and it doesn't work. I guess you can say the business is biased because the business doesn't work for complete imbeciles such as yourself and others. If you had to spend over 50 grand on training products in over a year, chances are, you're an idiot. The training products are made to help you, it doesn't matter how many you buy, it matters how you work your business.

So bascially you're a moron because of the following:

If Quixtar put out 500 training products, you'd be dumb enough to buy every one of them then complain when your business doesn't work.

You fit in with the masses of people who sign up for it and thinking that their upline or other people are going to do the work for you. All of these 'statistics' aren't based on facts, they're based on opinions and poor people's problems.

Good luck being poor because Lord knows I'm making money off of this thing. And I'll tell you what, when I reach a certain level, I'll buy this website off of you so you can ACTUALLY make money off of something, because this crappy, horrible retarded website with a shitty cookie cutter layout (yeah, someone sucks at HTML) just isn't cutting it.

So add one of these "quotes" to your website.

Hi there..
I'm writing in response to your wonderful site.

My friend has joined the "buisness" and is blinded. He's now thinking that he's going to make millions or become a platinum by the company and it's sucking him in. He's going to all these meetings and dragging his family in.
I've been to a couple of meeting and I've heard the same numbers come up over and over and over and over and over again and they always are drinking the product at meetings and i really don't understand this dressing for "buisness". Every meeting is people in suits and ties and kids in their best outfits listening to the talk and man it's got me rialed. I'm getting more questions than answers Are you supposed to be in buissness attire at someones house? This is it.. K, on tuesday night, I went to a meeting in full buisness attire, to someones house and in the basement, they had built a full confrence room with board and chairs and lights and coffee and he proceeded to tell us the plan. it was bad.

What set me off was that Test for a heart condition through saliva and then sending it for genetic testing and if it proves postitive, you have to get the medications and herbs and stuff for it.  It apparently made by this profound lab that I'm trying to get more information on, I'm a trauma nurse and lab tech myself and No one here has
heard of it. And the people that have sent the tests in, all are positve which means more money to the company..  I ran a indepent voluntary test for this. I did the blood test with my team here in U of A and astonishly they were you guessed it... negitive! I'm really pissed off, so are alot of people as well.  I'm looking at the products and are they as profound as they can be? Is true that all these conpanys are signing up to be on line with Quixtar? It's  sounds good to a rock but to a thinker like me, i'm a little sceptical. The site is pretty weird too. Too weird for my liking.  And one of the products has "a amway hertitage product" written on the
bottle. Yikes. I started to make questions to ask and I am asking for help to ask questions to help make people itch and see if they answer. I'm going
to see how far i can go before I can expose it and get the full truth. That memo was a good scan but i'm questioning the authenticity of it due to the
fact there is no signature block names etc.I have read the book merchants of deception and I'm really wanting to give it to everyone I know!
Thank you for your site and your eye opening comments. I hope to hear from you soon

At the March 2006 national convention, it was announced that team in focus is no more. It is now Vitalife Networks. see www.vitalifenetworks.com.

If you're interested, I found the powerpoint shows from the convention on the internet.

Scott.

As being an ex-active IBO I had the opportunity to observe and after becoming inactive to learn of the various thing Uplines did in order to qualify Diamond. In the year 2004 the Northeast USA mostly New York grew at a phenomenal rate to the point of breaking 5 Diamonds. This moved the original upline Diamond to EDC. He broke one Diamond in 2003 who in turn broke three Diamonds downline in 2004. The other two Diamonds were happened to be the EDC breaking one then that one breaking one. Through the EDC's group approximately 80plus Platinums were broken as well as other pins. The Diamond who broke three Diamond was lauded as a hero because never had a first year diamond accomplish such a feat.

All was good up until the end of the fiscal year (Aug 2004) then right after the new year the wheels start to come off. Come Sept after FED nothing was happening, PV volume dropped substantially. New ideas from Diamond upline came into play but this was a way for them to move items on hand. People start to grumble mainly because they were carrying large volumes of products eg water treatments and cookware. When Quixtar got wind of the situation quite a few of the platinums were denied their trip to the corporate HQ in Michigan. Up to today people are still sitting with products on their shelves. But when you ask the diamonds their response is "We never told them to do that". If one has to counsel with them on the state of one's business they knew what was going on. I am talk about people "persuaded' to spend over $20000.00 of which they had to max credit cards just to qualify but never gave a way to get rid of the products.

Hi Benny,

Thanks for the note.

Care to name any names?

Scott

Sure! The hottest group in Quixtar in 2004 was The ******* group. The group grew from 3 platinums group wide in 2001 to over 80 platinums groupwide in 2004. The following year maybe 10% re qualified platinum but of the 80 platinums only a handful may have been profitable.

The push was 'Diamond' and those in qualification used the books and tapes to their advantage you know "how to win friends and influence people" to do what you want.

There is also the matter of the Diamond who was 'borrowing' money from people and promising high returns in a short period. One person was hit for $90K and another was for over $100K. I was approached by this person only after discussing some of my financial matter with my upline (who was in this person's pocket). When Quixtar was alerted the report was this diamond ibo number had been revoked and at meeting it was stated that they were away on business. But rumor has it that said diamond about to resurface. Go figure.

Are you a fan of The Sopranos or The Godfather film? If you are you are familiar with the "Code" to take care of someones family if something should happen to them (jail or death). Well going to meeting and hearing people speak about being there for people thru thick and thin one would think your in good hands. But they shoulda checked ALLSTATE............next story

When my husband and I were involved in the Amway business, we watched our part of our upline dissappear due to divorces. My husband and myself also had many arguments about the money we were pouring into the business.

After working it together as a pair for 4 years, ,my husband let me attempt to build it for another 2 1/2 years by myself. Then , he showed me the amount of money I was losing, and we terminated the business.

Thank you so much for coming out with such a great article about the cons of Quixtar. I was once an IBO myself, only to be lured in by my ex-wife to believe that the only way to succeed in the business was to follow the 9-step plan, buy the tools, and believe in god. It ruined my marriage. My ex wife was so brainwashed, she said that she would do the business till the day she died and if i wasn't with her 100% in the business, then she wasn't with me 100% in marriage. Quixtar does work. But you have to treat it like a business, not a religious cult. I refer to the meetings i went to as "emotional blackmale!" on how every speaker seemed to belittle to average man convincing them who had worked 20 years of his or her life for just to live paycheck to paycheck was a complete and utter failure of thiers lives spent. They(the speakers) made sure to let the "men" know that it was THEIR job to provide for the wife and if they were REAL men, they would do the business 100% for their wife's future.

as you can see...im divorced. I guess i didn't buy in to that blackmale approach, and it's a shame. Good, honest people get so hurt, and so many lives and marriage are ruined trying to make ends meet, while tying to make their quota for the month so they can get a $7.50 cent paycheck, while complaining to their downline why they didn't do the same. If you can learn to treat it as JUST a business...sell the products and treat people like they were human, you're right!...the business might be saved some day.

Thanks for you time,

Terry