Scott,
I have found your site most informative, having been an Amway distributor since 1983 (though admittedly only buying a few products here and there in the last 4 years) I was "heavly" involved with the system that was promoted by Dexter Yager. I was told by friends etc when I got in that I would have a garage full of soap if I got in and instead I have a garage full of tools!!
It took me along time to fully realize what was going on, but again reading the material contained on your web site plus its various links it has all come clear to me. Thanks and keep gathering information people need to know what's really
going on!
Tom

Scott,

I am exhausted emotionally after reading the postings on your site. They mirror our own experiences and we could add even more. I don't have the energy to do it right now, but I will write to you again. Please do not publish my e-mail address or name. I've had enough grief from the "leaders" we used to associate with regarding our decision to quit building the business because of the dishonesty and lack of integrity we have observed over the years. I don't need anymore harrassment from them via e-mail.

We have been Directs/Founders Directs for the last 9 years. This will be our first year not to qualify; we no longer have the desire or energy to "keep building."

More later,

Hi Scott,

In my country (Colombia) Quikstar doesn't work but Amway does.Just three days ago I entered the Amway business. today is the first time I've looked to your site (it is great), and I'm very concerned about this whole business. A very good friend of mine sponsored me into this deal and I can't imagine that he wants me loose money.

Your talk with Mr. Carrillo made me very upset because he never showed his downline earnings and all the other things your site says make me doubt if I had made the correct desission in getting with Amway.Maybe you Scott, that have already worked with Amway could help me with and advice of how to manage this bussiness without throwing 100 dollars (the price of starting kit) to the garbage can.

Take care of yourself and don't stop putting this important information in your site.

Regards,

Andrés

Hi Scott,

Please let me introduce myself as Sandy from India.

Since last three days I was browesing through your Amway buisness anlysis site.It is really an eye opener with tons of facts and information in it!You have really done a great job. After going through all the information put on your site I have decided to quit the buisness and save my time ,money and friends.

I guess it might have taken a lot of time and efforts from your side to prepare this site. What was your motive in doing this?

Thanks a lot again!

With best regards,

Sandy

Hi Scott,

You've obviously put a lot of effort into researching the information for your site. I have a question, though, about you personally. What are your credentials? Yes, I saw your degrees, but they don't mean much in the real world. I don't mean any disrespect, but before I accept your advice, I need to know more about the source.

Thanks,

Scott-

My name is Paul Barlow and I have been a Quixtar IBO for some number of months now. I came across you're site while researching the opportunity months ago, and with you're analyses in mind decided to committ myself to my business and this opportunity. I completely agree with you on many points - I believe there are many organizations ou there that propagate false information, some intentionally and others intentionally, which really hurts the integrity of our organization. I also agree that the way things are run in general is extremely ineffiecient, and we are working in our group to overcome much of the inefficiency. After all, I started my own business with the idea of leveraging time as my main motivation, and thus I am looking all of the time to make my business more efficient and time effective. You're site has helped my by illustrating the stark economic realities of the opportunity, effectively proving that the way most of the organizations run the business will cause most people to lose monetarily. I am a man of integrity and want to run my business in the most ethical way possible, and you're site has given me insights to help me present the business in a more effective, honest manner that will allow our organization to thrive. I think one of the biggest problems with the whole idea is that people do not really look at the business as a legitimate business, which it is. This means that not everybody wins, tough decisions have to be made, and to succeed one will have to be willing to do more than the average person is willing to do. To the right person, this idea is exciting. But to the majority of the people in the world, it is scary. Dexter Yager talks about how America has lost its dreams, in the sense that it has become infected with the disease of status, which causes us to no longer progress as we once did. I completely agree with him, and I feel the correct application of this business opportunity is one way to combat this degeneration of our society. Instead of telling people that it is easy and that they can become rich without losing much comfort, I tell them that it will require a lot of time and effort, and say the question they need to ask themselves is "is this worth you're time?" To me, it is worth my time. I could go out and sell some product and receive one time commissions for the sales that I make, or I could go to work for somebody somewhere and receive basically the same amount of income for the rest of my life. Or I can learn to sell this business effectively and with integrity, and create an exponential income that will allow me to accomplish my dreams. I am already beginning to grow and rather quickly, and I believe it is because I am dedicated to getting the right information to people and telling the story the way it really is. I think where I win is through my desire to serve - people know when they talk to me that this has a lot of potential, but that it is not easy, but that they have somebody who is willing to serve them and to help them do it until they become successful. That is really the key to doing this thing right and with integrity - good old-fashioned unselfishness and service. These are qualities that our society has put on the burner in recent years, and I am here to create and army of people who want to instill these values in society once again. I feel bad about the people who have been lied to and have entered the business with false expectations and beliefs and as a result became disillusioned and quit. But as you said yourself in the site it CAN work if done correctly, and that is what our organizations is striving to accomplish. Once again thank you for your help Scott - I will visit the site in the future to receive updated on the numbers, as I have neither the pacience nor desire to do this myself. If you have anything you would like to say to me. please email me back and I would be glad to hear what you have to say.

Sincerely,

Paul

Hello Scott,

Your website is wonderful. It was the impetus for our leaving the quixtar org. My upline and friend insists that no one profits from books and tapes. It is through the Britt WorldWide group. Is this possible? If not, how can I prove it to him?

Thank you very much,

garry

Scott,

I know you are probably very busy, so if you don't reply to this message, I completely understand. I just wanted to personally thank you for your "Business Analysis of the Quixtar Amway Opportunity" web site. A friend has been trying to sell me on it. I was a little skeptical because it seemed too good to be true. So I went looking for real information, instead of the vague picture of cloud 9 the meeting tried to display. After visiting your site it really opened my eyes. Thankyou. I'm going to refer this site to my friend as well, it is a must for anyone who has ever heard of Quixtar/Amway.

Again, thankyou very much, you are saving a lot of people a lot of money, time, and humiliation.

Yeah right! I'm going to take advice from a total stranger over the internet! How about I verify your lifestyle, bank account, etc.... I found out the hard way, not to listen to someone unless they have the fruit on the tree. How's your fruit? Post your successes, financial statements, college transcripts, family history, etc... and after that we can sit down and talk so that I can determine whether I should listen to you. You know, just like my upline has done for me. What's your stake in all of this anyway? Get real. By the way, will you also post my opinons on your website? I don't think so - it would delete your purpose. Nice try at fooling people into believing your impartial.

Hi Scott,

Just wanted to thank you for such an informative website regarding Quixtar. We were "hit up" recently by a sales pitch to join but weren't convinced this was an "opportunity" for us. I have had previous experience with Amway and I was told this was in no way, like Amway. Ha! I don't disagree that this type of business is for some people, just not me. No real saving statistics were given, only his "word" that we would be making and saving money. This stranger came out of nowhere. With full-time work, a husband, 3 little boys, a new house and dog, the opportunity cost of this business would not suit me what-so-ever, and most people don't take into account the time and money it can take. Your site has some real eye openers for people with absolutely no experience in dealing with these so called businesses or money making ventures. This salesperson (my terminology for them) tried to make my husband and me feel as though our jobs were meaningless and that we were foolish for not wanting to shop on-line and save money. My whole opinion of these people has dramatically changed. They come into your home and only care about 1 thing--themselves! I also don't believe they are as well off as they say.

i am sorry for your bad experience as an ibo, but i find many loop holes in your info..for instance the pronet starter kit is only 95$ not 265$ and is optional.and there are many other misrpresented statements on your site..i wont go into all of them but it seems maybe you have spent more time and money on this site than you did on your ibo ship..i dont know why people feel the need to bash the greatest venture on the planet..so what we make money from the tools at the platinum level its no secret..its only fair if you handle 300 sets of tapes and books and other tools every month that you should be paid for it..it disturbs me to see the negative on your site cause it just shows your selfishness and your reckless disregard for those who are trying to make a better life for our families.i dont think you are a bad person but just typical negative mental attitude cause someone hurt your feelings or lost your dream..i really feel sorry for you that in all your misery you feel the need to needlessly hurt those of us who want more out of life.please forgive me if this seems harsh but i know people who were excited and had hopes and dreams that had them torn apart by your website..maybe some day you could put your efferts in uplifting things instead of tearing down.there is to much tearing down in our world and needs to stop..well i hope you will find happiness..scott whittaker

Thanks to your site I was able to stop my friend from getting into Quixtar. As soon as he mentioned he went to a pyramid meeting, I asked if it was Amway. He said Quixtar and I recognized it right away. I was able to use your site to show him the truth about it.

Thanks again bro

Dear Scott,

This message will hopefully be short, as I am not sure your email is still active. You have an amazing website and should be commended on your efforts. You do a a very adequate job in explaining the facts as you see them. Your math seems correct, and reminds of the importance of minimizing losses/expenses when ever possible.

I hope that we can have a continued dialog. I am sure I will learn many things from your experience and insight.

The premise of your arguement seems to be that an individual investing in their own business should show a profit very quickly. If the individual doesn't show a profit very quickly something needs to be fixed? I just don't know if this approach can be applied to anyone starting a business. Most entrepeneurs (sp?) I know have always sought venture capital from a person or persons or bank to start their business. A decision is made based on the business or product, projected market trends,operating costs, and projected revenues as to when a company will be come profitable. Amazon.com is in this mode right now. The jury is out I would say as to when they will be profitable.

This company has been in business for approx. 5 years?, and haven't shown a profit. Many people lost money investing in this company. Perhaps you have some advice for them. I have a friend who started their own business. Took out a $100,000 loan from the bank. The bank expected them to turn a profit in 5 years. They are fortunate that their business model is working, and are slowly turning a profit each year with minimal but upward growth.

I am in the private franchising industry and use Quixtar.com as my contracting corporation. I have been in business for 6 months now. Is there some reason I should expect a profit right away. I assumed an individual and their investor (which is one in the same in this instance) has to decide when the investment is to great for the potential reward. And in the case of Quixtar and the IBO is a PERSONAL decision for the IBO. If every business applied your desire to be profitable right away, no traditional business would exist in the western hemisphere. This is an assumption only, and have no facts to back this statement up.

I don't expect to see a profit for the first 2-3 years in this business. This seems consistent with most start-up businesses. Am I being naive to think that it would take time to get good at my business, or should I have assummed that everything should be positive right from the beginning including the accounting books?

Of course this message couldn't be short. There are many people in many careers who would probaly say that if they had a chance to do it all over again, they would do something different.

Things, no matter, how much we research them are never what we expect. I haven't done the exact math yet, but I bet if you add the cost of my four-five year college education (including interest), the money lost in wages while in school, money lost in commuting to work (the company does not reimburse for gas, upkeep, etc.), preparing for work, winding down from work, clothes for work; my net hourly rate would probally be around $4/ hour for the first 5-10 years. I bet this holds true for most mid-level entry jobs. I will send a detailed scenario soon. In addition to this the SSA reports that only 2% of Americans are financially independent at age 65 yo. So if there is a scam going on maybe its modern day capitalism.

I will end by saying I look forward to keeping this dialogue as respectable as possible. I can see in your previous correspondence that this is not a problem for you.

Mark (that is my real name)

Hello, I'm a new IBO in Quixtar and just wanted to help your site out by submitting my expenses.

I was really excited about the tax benefits so I kept very very detailed records of absolutely everything I spent my money on. Note , that I've only been in the business since Febuary 17th, and didn't start keeping records till April 20th..even then, the expenses were quite high. ot exactly the 100 dollars investment they lead you to believe.

Many times I've been told.

"I've never seen someone make it without plugging into the Britt World Wide System." "If you don't go to the functions you're not serious about the business." lots of pressure tactics, it's hard to say no to a guy that always says that he's so proud of you. You don't want to let him down, you don't want to fail him...what makes it worse is that about 20 other people are telling you this and you start to get proud of yourself.

Imagine how horrible it feels when you decide to quit, everyone just kind of looks at you like you're a failure. That's the number 1 reason why I havn't decided to quit just yet.

That and the fact that they've "given" me about 20 to 30 tapes. They just pile them onto me so I don't know which tape belongs to who...

And I know 100% that they'll ask for them back if I quit...but I'm willing to pay 500 dollars just to get out of this damn business.

I thank them though, this system sure has given me the guts (self-esteem) to start my own business.

In fact, I have plans to help my father with his business..start my own distribution business that supplies to Chinese Restaurants, and eventually start up my own software or computer store.

Here is the data I promised.

and my jaw almost dropped..

I've spent SO FAR 812.47 cents.

That's not counting as, car depreciation etc.

That's a rough estimate so far.

My net gain from the business has by 0 dollars.

I havn't received a PV check but until lately I was contacting at least 1-3 people a day.

I am very confident that if I could live with myself, I could make it huge in this business.

(I'm no longer shy and I've always been very humorous)

However, I won't reap my success by standing on the backs of others.

Plus, I really dislike how Bill Britt uses his ralleys as a way to spread Christianity. It's done via pressure, I bet you 90% of the people walk up to the stage and get "saved" because it's expected of them. Not because they feel spiritual. I also think it's wrong that the upline diamonds sanction this business as a "conduit of God".

I found a lot of things wrong with this business.

The primary one is the propogation of political and spiritual beliefs via business meetings.

Business meetings should be business meetings, not Christian conventions or anti-lawyer anti-democrat conventions.

Other than that all the business support material is great, and I might continue to stay in Quixtar just to hone my inter-personal skills. Being around such positive people (although naive or deceptive) really has increased my friendliness towards total strangers. It's also changed my goals in life from, "Computer Science" to a more business oriented major.

As a whole I think the 1,000 bucks that I've spent on the system has helped me become a much more personable character. I couldn't begin to give the thanks due for that one thing that they did for me, even if I've been slightly deceived.

When I asked my upline about the 70% rule (I'm a rules oriented person, see Computer Science.) he told me that my downlines can satisfy this. I then asked, "What if you don't have any downlines..like you're a new IBO? Then you don't get the 3% performance bonus?"

He told me not to worry about it and that Quixtar really didn't care anyways. I've heard my upline (Who is also my best friend of 2 years) say that I was being paranoid and that I shouldn't trust some stranger over people who are trying to help me.

AT that point I really thought that they had brain washed my best friend and now he won't even admit what we're doing is illegal. He justified the loss by citing examples of Circuit city retailing to customers.

"Well at circuit city they tell you all the good things about the warranties and try to market it. But they never tel you that it's pure profit and that the person selling it to you gets comission. THe person who buys that warranty loses out because they rarely take advantage of it."

Which kind of got to me, because it's true but ultimately nothing you can say about the warantee is false. Plus it's a legal business because money is flowing into the business, and money is flowing out (Paying the employees and buying their products from the manufacturers).

Anyways he is convinced I should talk to my Plat upline (Who thinks I'm going to go direct because I have absolutely no fear of talking in front of large crowds.) about this..but to be honest, I'm scared of confronting him about it. It feels that I've been lured into some sort of trap and now it's going to be really really tough to get myself out of it.

My best friend is going to look at me differently, so is his girlfriend and so is his dad (who is his upline). I'm really pretty much upset that I will now be looked at as a "loser" and a "quitter". I'm also really sad that they say it's all paranoia, that I shouldn't take the word of the FTC(Because it's some stranger on the phone that could be lying to you..can you believe my upline SAID that?) and I should listen to my real friends and the people who are really trying to help me out. My Upline Platinum etc..

Well they're all great and nice people, but from the start I had my suspicions.

"How can everyone get rich using this system? It doesn't make sense..If everyone is rich in the system and all we do is buy from ourselves..where exactly does the money come from?" I never received a clear answer to that, it went something like this, "There will always be stupid people in the world that don't join this business.".

I didn't see how that was supposed to answer my question..

but he also said, "Every year at least a few hundred thousand people turn 18."

I understood that, but we would be constantly taking money into the Quixtar "area"..and money would never leave since all we use is Quixtar products..

Wouldn't that destroy the economy..

by the way I have no background in business, but I understood enough to know that you need to retail in order to reserve economy. The more the money flows around the healthier the country is..

Anyways if you could answer any of my upline, plat-direct statements I'd be very happy. Also how do you think I should seperate?

I'm kind of scared of all the consequences I might face.. also another question, are all your numbers "verified" is there anyway I can verify them? I don't want to quit Quixtar because you might be a very bitter person and just put up a bunch of fake numbers.

Thanks J

Your site explain both positive and negative aspect of the business. No doubt, just like anything you do in life, there's always a positive or negative aspect. We have a system that follow franchising concept. We are not like any other public franchise you know about, such as McDonalds, Burger King, and others. They all have a system and if you don't follow their system, they will take away your franchise rights. We do not force IBO to follow our system...thats why there's so many IBOs doing the business in different ways. If we actually take the business away from IBOs who are not following the system, then there would be less misleading information being thrown around. We are a people business, every individual is different, therefore you get different result. If you work in a restaurant you would understand what I mean.

Ky Pham IBO

How about you analyzing the current system and other business models? Put these results on your website and compare to see which is better.

What I mean about the current system is how we all been condition. Go to school get a good education; get a good job and you're taken care of for life. If this is true, why are the average american own $8K+ on credit cards?

What I mean about other business models is: Do a comparison on what it take to have a franchise. How the franchising system works?

Do the same analysis as you would with Amway/Quixtar. Post it on your site and let me know how it work out. I'm sure you can handle it, because you're a smart guy.

Ky Pham New IBO

Scott,

My wife and I just joined two weeks ago and I have been pretty excited about the new opportunity. (I did not quite my current job and do not have intentions to). You have opened my eyes to some reasons why people are not successful. I have always questioned the 6:4:2 plan and the potential money one could make. I like the idea one of your site visitors stated about not buying all the tapes, books, seminars, and attending conventions. I also have been enlightened to start to retail the products instead of strictly focusing on the MLM.

Now, I have heard a few things that you have not mentioned. The Board of Directors, supposedly, is reviewing a new payout model that would double to triple what IBO's are making now. Have you heard anything about this. Also, I was told by an upline that that if you have multiple legs, the leg that is creating the highest bonus (let's say 15%), will pay out 15 % on all of the other legs, even if those legs are not at that bonus level. Have you heard anything about this?

I fill that I am an ambitious person, and am willing to give it a try, especially if they decide to change the pay plan. Now, my upline told me this, but also was honest with me and did not tell me that this was definitely going to happen. I did not base my decision on joining on that statement. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

Josh

Scott,

I'm not sure if you saw it or not, but on Sheriff's post board under "A Personal Challenge to Platinum IBO," a guy named Roy challenges Platinums to divulge their stats anonomously. One guy in particular does, and the results are just as you have been saying all this time. I know you are always in search of that ellusive person who will speak truthfully about the status of their business, and it so happens that this dude's upline diamond is Billy Florence. I think he was yours, right? He had some choice "negative" things to say about his upline. Maybe you should post some of this on your website under a special section dedicated to Billy himself.

Frank

Scott,

I was pitched by a coworker, who I'd otherwise consider quite competent, a business opportunity from 'Team In Focus'. The web site is teaminfocus.com, you can use the IBO number 176757 of my coworker to get in and poke around if you wish.

I never put much stock in MLM schemes and always believed they were rackets that just made the founders of the company a lot of money on the backs of everyone else. So as I heard this pitch my 'racket' filter was listening. I never heard about Quixtar until it was mentioned briefly by my coworker. She didn't say 'Amway', but she did say 'Quixtar' a few times.

The teaminfocus.com pitch is quite similar to the AmWay / Quixtar pitch as detailed on your web site. The hook here is to convince the prospect they can make easy money on e-commerce and MLM [i.e., 'We can stay at home and still have money coming in']. Supposedly teaminfocus.com pays money to their IBOs based on marketing dollars from the companies available on their portal, as well as commissions from sales made by 'buying from your own business', 'signing up IBOs', 'signing up members', etc.

The 'Bill Gates invested $250M' with Quixtar statement was made by my coworker. She made many of the same claims that were on your web site.

My coworker lent us a few tapes [how much did she pay for those?] to listen to. They were nothing substantial, just typical MLN hype.

When I did a web search for 'Team In Focus' I didn't turn up anything. It was only after I did a web search for 'Amway' that I found your site, so it might be good to include the 'Team In Focus' story on your web site as well.

Thanks for your web site, it's a valuable asset to the Internet.

Best regards,

Scott,

I truly appreciate your site on Amway/Quixtar. I suppose you will think of me as one of those "suckers" who joined the business. I was recruited by a personal friend and was given all of the information that you recommended we investigate. I was told that this is not a get rich scheme, that you will get out of it, what you put in. In addition, I was told that not all of the products are "discounted" and that $200 does not necessarily = 100PV. In fact, any person interested in the business and doing their homework can discover this quite easily. I was even told up front that the average active IBO (only 40% of IBO's are active) grosses $88 per month. Training is optional, but recommended, and the costs associated with training and events were spelled out from the beginning. In short, I have chosen a very supportive, active team.

We chose to join this business for the ease of use. We are going to spend the money on the products one way or the other. I would prefer not to wait 30 minutes in line at Wal Mart every time I need to run to the store. In addition, battling the traffic and spending my gas, arriving there and impulse buying are all things that I don't mind eliminating from my daily routine. In short, we joined for the ease and convenience and know that others will enjoy the utility of the site, as well.

I do not believe that there is anything unlawful in the activities of Quixtar. It is the consumer's responsibility to investigate ALL of the facts before making a decision and all of the facts ARE readily available if people just READ the information given to them and log on to find sites such as yours. I appreciate the fact that you want people to have full scope of the situation before they agree to be members of this organization. It does all of us who participate a great deal of good to have an honest, forthright, and "non-pushy" approach to find quality members for this "gated community. I have and will continue to refer potential IBO's and members to your site so they accurately grasp the full scope of the business before they become involved.

Sincerely,

Michelle

I just want to say thank you very much for your web site. I was approached last week by an IBO who was pitching Quixtar to me. At the end of the "dream" presentation I said "If I did not know better I would swear this is Amway in a new package." I went home and forgot about it. Last night he called me and I decided I should check out the Internet for any info on Quixtar.

Once I found you site I immediately emailed the Pitch artist and said "thanks but no thanks" and left your link.

Actually your site is very good and can be used by all when trying to evaluate business opportunities.

Kevin ;-{ )

Scott,

I loved your site. My best friend just fell into the vortex a few years ago but he didn't take it hook, line, and sinker. He did the "fence sitting" deal but I noticed him hanging out with a cult like group. They went everywhere together. Well, he just fell off the fence a few months ago unbeknownst to me. I realized it when he asked me to preview a business proposal for him.

As I hold a JD/MBA and work for KPMG Consulting, I thought he wanted me to crunch some numbers so I agreed to meet this person from California. No sooner than I walked into the hotel conference room, I felt sick. I wasn't there to recommend for him but to be sold on it. I listened to a fellow name Norm Kizirian pitch the MLM scheme to a pack house. He sold the dream - a real slick presentation. If I didn't have my groundings and previously study the Amway organization in law school, I may have fallen for the logic.

Honestly, your site needs to be mandatory reading for anyone attending these rallies. I probably pissed Norm off when I pointed out the disclaimers in the brochures that 1 in 53 IBOs is active and makes less than $88 per month.

Anyway, I enjoyed the site and am now working to make my friend read it before he shoves anything in front of my face.

Regards.

John

Scott...

you have a good idea with this website.... but I believe you a bit off the mark with your facts.. My wife and I were once involved with Amway years ago... and we lost alot of money with the same points of interest you mentioned in your website. We experienced 2 major IRS audits and eventually owed them over $17k. However... there is a big difference between Quixtar and Amway... and even between lines of sponsorship.

My wife and I are IBO's and personally sponsered by a Double Diamond in the Yeager group. We were in a Yeager group in our Amway business...and there is a difference.

Before we joined our new LOS... my wife and I decided to treat it like a business. Since our IRS audits I have become well informed about buisnesses practices and if I knew then what I know now... I would have treated my Amway business quite differently. I have two successfull traditional businesses now along with my Quixtar biz.

My wife and I told our sponsers that we would build this business only if we could build it the way we wanted to... and here were our standards..

1. Always tell prospects who and what we are...

2. We would personally buy through the Quixtar site only if the product cost the same or less... why spend more money.. right.

3. Be upfront and tell each new IBO that the diamonds do receive a profit from the tools functions... books and everything regarding the education of an IBO. - no big deal

4. Let me develop my own lead program.... and I have... my toll free number. below

5. Be honest with the costs of doing the business and costs to joining.

This includes the $40. to get in if you dont want the products or when you get in for $100. you do get a selection of products.

My sponsered agreed and said this is what he teach his group. In short... I am not spending any more money for products that I would normally spend at my local Safeway, JC Penny's or Costco. I was told that if it costs less at any other store... get it there.

My wife and I do our 100 pv each month easily. and it is just the two of us.

When asked how much money does it take to make 100pv...I tell people ..."anywhere from $200 - $500 per month. then I explain in more detail what I just shared with you.. Our business is growning and we are making a profit.

The tapes cost us about $30. per month. Amvox is aboug $15. per month Hotel meetings is about $10 per month.

and the group is growing... alot. As one business owner to another (and I believe you are) ... every business has its downfalls... Its how you react to them which counts. I make it work. and it is.

Steve

Dear Scott,

I must say your site was very helpful. I am a current distributor and one of accelerated growth. I agree that it is frustrating to me as well that higher level distributors don't discuss specifics of their business. It probably would have gotten me in the business much faster. I also bet that if a diamond ever told you the logistics of his business, you would be IN!!!

Anyway, I loved a quote of yours and I hope you will have the persistence with this site and your search for truth in logic to post my reply in an unshaded (big-website-easy-to-hide-sore-replies) sort of way.

Your best quote of the entire site: "The only way for one to break free of their own losses is to recruit additional money-losing participants to the scheme." Now......if we remove the propagated rhetoric from the quote this is what we have: The only way for one to break free of their own losses is to sign-up additional IBO's to the business.

There, that's better. Yet and still, I thank for the statement. It is a shame to be so buried in the site, but hey at least it's there. I have showed it to many prospects and it has saved the life of my business. I also think it is interesting that you mentioned the lottery in a quote from Greenspan just after your famous quote. I am not sure of your inclusion in this group, but you might agree, people seem to be more interested every day in "something for nothing." It almost surprises them to find out that more work is necessary. The payoff......ahh the payoff.

Keep the site and especially the quote.......brave too, giving so much personal info about yourself. Could I see YOUR income statement, outside the business of course. Do you really think that an owner of a major corporation would show you his statement to get you to come work for him, or to get you STAY with the company. How about a statistic of how many Americans quit their jobs everyday. You seem to enjoy pinning IBO's down with questions, here are a few for you.

Sean

Scott - it's pretty evident from your site that the opportunity Rich DeVos originally proposed and has continued to reinforce differs quite a bit from what is being carried out by the IBO force (due to the views and practices of guys like Dexter Yeager). It's apparent that Rich and Amway/Quixtar want the IBOs to retail, and have presented us with programs to get us to retail (Quixtar IBO/Member/Customer model for example). But top "leadership" wants nothing of it. Imagine the founders' frustration of having a huge global force that is more interested in recruiting and personal consumption, plus the sales of business tools, than in actually selling product. Wouldn't it be great if you could identify the lines of sponsorship that actually promote selling, and direct new prospects there? If you believe the words you posted on the site, perhaps you can become a positive force in changing the business. Plenty of people realize there is a problem, but is anyone doing anything about it? If so, I might just get interested again - Former IBO

Hi Scott,

love your site, I am a former amway distributor just a quick question a friend was approached by a company MLM whose product was Tahitian Noni, Company name was Morinda Inc? do you know anything about them? My friend asked me since she knew I was in

MLM before

Thanks

Dear Scott,

The statistics and information you have come up with are really interesting. I am an IBO that has not experienced any of these problems, and have a great opinion of the entire business model. I'm sorry for your bad experience with the business, and I've learnt it is not uncommon for people to be burnt, usually due to their LOS. It is a fact that 95% of the people that join the IBOA fail at building a successful business. Whatever the reasons, I don't care. Basically, they don't do the things required to succeed in the Network Marketing world. The other 5% do exceedingly well, as I am.

The reasons there are so many people that fail, is that this business is too easy to get into. It promotes unlimited opportunity, and no restriction on who can do it, and how they do it. The sad fact is, so many of these people simply don't do what it takes to succeed.

If the business what thousands of dollars to get started, as opposed to a few hundred, the success rate would be much higher, as people would take it more seriously, and the average profit margins you talk about would oviously be much higher also.

I'm not here to argue statistics or opinions, and honestly am not interested in your opinion on what I've said, but think it only fair that people understand that this business is only for those that are willing to put in what it takes to gain financial freedom. Those that are, like any business idea, can make this work and use it as a tool to live their wildest dreams.

Would appreciate it if you published this on your site.

Regards,

Adam

Scott,

Thanks for a well meaning site. I have forwarded your website to the person who is recruiting me and asked him to put his sweet dollar figures to a math logic that would dispute the figures indicated in your website. Only people on top of a pyramid scheme gets all the money. As a rule: always be skeptical to schemes where earnings are being obtained from people below you....

Scott,

Well, I'm an IBO and have had some pretty awesome results in the past 3 months. Granted this growth came after being in for 3 years. But for those 3 years I did nothing to grow, either myself, or my business. I went to seminars and major functions, never brought anyone. Listened to tapes, never bothered to learn what was taught. And finally I never filed taxes properly, so I never received any tax compensation.

But those were all my decisions that I made. My Sponsor wasn't very involved in the business, so I found someone in the group that was. I felt that I had gotten in over my head, had a hard time figuring out why I spent $500.00+ to get 100PV...I went to bed with a ton of confusion going on. But the more I questioned the methods taught, the more I realized that I never considered myself in an actual business. You know, one with Gains and Losses? One where I had to actually participate in...the fact of the matter is: there is a reason why business fails. People have always looked for an easy way to be rich. Almost as if they feel that they deserve to be rich. Unfortunately as I learned, you need to earn the riches.

What changed? My attitude.

I've also learned that there is a difference between Organizations (as I'm sure you know). I'm in the World Wide Dreambuildes Organization. If I could offer any advice I'd be that you have a separate section for those different groups, explaining the difference between leadership styles, comments, average revenue, differences in how to show the Plan, different group handouts.

I had received a great hand out called Fast Track. It not only explained the advantages of growing by personal use, but showed me EXACTLY what to buy to reach 100PV. Also, WWDB has had the SA-4400w made to reflect the current 1PV to 2.5BV. They have also made sure that duplication stays constant by developing the Private Franchising Review, a 4 page overview/handout that makes it impossible to ad-lib on. Every one from Ron Puryear to my deepest leg use both the PFR and the SA-4400w. I have never heard anyone complain that they have been lied to.

Finally, we have been taught (by a Diamond, from stage, around the country, soon to be on tape) that the proper way to show your commitment to a new

prospect is to say at the conclusion of a second look: "Personally, I don't want you to sign up right now. If I can't show you, through success that you can have a successful business, then you probably shouldn't be in business with me". And then we show 5-7plans FOR THEM before they sign anything.World Wide Group is the definition of integrity.

Your site is very informative, but the numbers reflect a vague source, and are not consistent with the numbers I have been taught, or that have been reflected in my business.

Thanks for your time,

Peter

Dear Scott,

Thank you for the great web site. I wish that I had a computer fifteen months so I could have looked at your information before becoming a IBO in the WWDB system. I knew in my guts that something wasn't right but I could not figure out want it was. I was stupid. I was in the business for only seven months, but I lost over $2000 in hard earned money. I allowed the business and my upline to put me through tremendous stress. The pressure was bad.(I also had to work a very stressful job.) I was not told the truth about how much money and time this"business opportunity" really would take. I was told that I could do this business while working my current job. But,after I got in I was told if my job got in the way of the business I would have to find another job if I serious about it.(My upline would only help serious IBO's.) I also was told that I would have to cut my hair short and shave off my facial hair. I did,but I resented the fact that I wasn't told about the Amway dress code before signing up. I disliked the fact that the information of the system was given to you bit by bit. In my opinion, it seemed that the system wanted to make people into clones of Brad and Julie Duncan.All of the diamonds looked and sounded alike, as if they all came out of the same mold. When I left the business last October, my upline said that I was a lower class person and lower class people can not make it in WWDB.Thanks to your well researched web site and links I know now exactly what was/is wrong with WWDB.I was out and out lied to and manipulated by people who I thought were my friends.People who said that they were christians.I am very thankful that I got out as quick as I did.Thank you again for all of your hard work in putting together this web site.I feel alot of bitterness towards my former upline,but it was mainly my fault.I feel a little sorry for him because he treats WWDB as a religion and the diamonds as prophets.(I am not joking.)I feel that he is also a victim of the system.He reminded me of a person who was brain washed.During the last major function that I attended(F.E.D.) in October I listen to a diamond(I think it was Brad Duncan) reading from the Bible verses about God giving the fat of the land and servants and wealth to his people.The actual verses were for the Jews,but this diamond was saying that a friend of his who has the gift of prophesy told him that these verses also were for us IBO's.Based on what I personally seen I feel that WWDB is very much like a cult.Showing respect to your upline(senior business partner) is right,but this system of edification to your uplines where you are suppost to hang on to every word they say as if it is divine(you always need to be taking notes or tape recording their words when ever they give you the honor of talking to you) just did not seem right.You have to turn your mind and body over to the system in order to be a real part of it.It is all about money,control and greed.You can never make enough.If you do then all it means is that your dream is not big enough.Please keep up your good work.You are doing alot of good.I hate typing letters,but your web site has helped me so much that I felt that I had to tell you.I am sorry for writing such a long letter. A former IBO

Scott,

Scott,

I am honored you you replied. I was debating on the side for Quixtar. I can't understand how you believe it's a poor system. But I guess we are looking through different eyes. The Amway sales and marketing plan is very efficient, but you have to have a business owner mentality which most people don't and it seems like you don't either. How many checks has your local grocery store sent you for shopping there? How many times has an author of a book you recommended to a freind paid you a bonus. I do understand why short term thinkers think they are losing money in a system that has business expenses, but if they would think like business owners the can use them for tax deductions which is another reason(although we don't sale this as a tax shelter), this makes so much sense. I honestly don't care how much my upline makes on tapes or functions as long as they help me make six figures per year. In fact the tapes is what kept my dreams alive. Amway and Quixtar are two separate entities, but I would like to see how many millionaires are created from Amway and Quixtar verses any other two companies. Can you check that out for me, since you have great resources and a mind for research? Oh, I appreciate your descernment in the different lines of sponsorship. I also think it matters. There is no such thing as job security these days and 90% of employees are broke and in debt or dead by the age of 65, that was research done by the Social Security commission a couple of years ago. Why would you get up when you really don't want to get up, go somewhere you really don't want to go and work for someone you really don't want to work for? At least diversify. I'm not saying Quixtar is for everybody, it's only for winners. I say give Quixtar all you have for 2-3 years and see where you are. In fact I would be willing to gurantee that a person like yourself would be making an extra $100,000 residual income on top of what you are already making. I would also be willing to be your sponsor and serve you in that purpose. I'm not going to lie, Quixtar can be an expensive hobby if you treat it like a hobby, but if you get serious about being a business owner it's(BWW) a proven system. Most Americans are living in quiet desparation and don't really like what they are doing. The money I spend on books, tapes, functions is a whole lot cheaper than your education costed and I can get tax deductions from them. The plan takes the cap off of your income and there is also no employee in the top 500 wealthiest men, hint, hint. Hope deferred makes the heart grow weak and that is what I want to give people, hope. There is a way to get out of debt. The coreline products are more economical because they are concentrated and the per use cost is a whole lot cheaper than the store bought products. Oh, there is a retail market that the average IBO can make money from by selling to their friends or anyone else for that matter. ROI(return on investment) is what we are looking for long term. I'd love to keep in touch with you so you can see my progress. If it takes me 15 years to reach 6 figures/year, it's alot faster than what I can do as an empoyee. My goal is to create that income, with integrity, in 2 years. Would you care to track my progress? And even if I don't reach that goal, I recognize it would be my lack of action, not the business plan itself. This could be fun. :)

As my college sophomore son sits at Hardee's tonight listening to some "friend" of my husband's tell him about a great opportunity (hack, spit,) I'm sitting here looking up the business (Quixtar) on the web. Imagine how thrilled I am to see that my suspicions were correct!! I knew it, I knew it, I KNEW it!! My poor kid -- at least I told him ahead of time that I bet it was Amway and to feel free to say NO in a big way. I can't wait for him to come home and check out your site. I even printed everything!!
A thousand blessings upon you!
Leslie
Savannah GA

Hi Scott,

I'll give you the brief background, then we'll get down to business. I'm nearly at 2500 PV every month ( 9 wide) in the Held organization and have been involved with Quixtar for just under a year. I'm a big researcher and take notes on every aspect and have counseled right up to diamonds so I know much about the business in a short time. I have gone over our site because my brother tried to educate me and I was curious where he got his information (and often mis-information).

I like how you sound almost neutral in the beginning of your site with a friendly picture and your degrees (not sure why) from Purdue U. What troubled me is that much of your information is out-of-date and inaccurate but you're still using it years later. In particular, the price comparison sheet is a hoot, thanks for that one, and I really liked the 6-4-2 average expense breakdown too. There is so much it is going to take many messages to help you get accurate information.

I believe your site is useful in many aspects but you really need to have enough honesty and integrity to have the right information in it. I actually use it in my business group to show them why they shouldn't trust the internet for information. My upline happens to run this business like it should be run. It talks about tool profit in the BMSAA i.e. there is profit being made, it talks about having non-IBO purchasers to hit the 50 PV rule, and it let's people know strongly that business support tools are helpful and optional.

One change you need to make is too get more information from disgruntled email types on their business structure when they say they didn't make money. One guy said he was a Platinum with 100 SOT's or something like that and made $2000 only once?!?! What kind of structure did he have. One or two legged probably with downline doing the work is my guess.

And Scott, you really need to research products more because most of the coreline everyday products are excellent values and they get better IF you add in driving costs like you did in the expense section. I would love if you gave me a forum in your site as the "beacon of truth" ha ha because I feel people should research a business first but I also feel they should have a point/counterpoint option too.

A note on the Training tools: Like many of your unsuccessful emailers, the tools have taught me much that is helping outside my Quixtar business and for that alone, this has already been a worthwhile experience.

That's all for now

Jim

Hi Scott,

I have been lurking on your site for quite a while now, love the content. I personally have no interest in being an IBO in an MLM, but I have been looking at the site to help explain the [irrational] behavior of a number of Amway participants I know...especially, the false, hearty hails offered by participants to people they barely know when prospecting...yick.

I have currently been involved in Amway for 3 years, and Quixtar since its beginning in 1999. I have found this business to be one of the simplest business's to build but not the easiest.

You state that these diamonds claim it is the easiest thing in the world. They DO NOT claim this. Their claim is that anyone can do it ( it is that simple). Not everyone will do it because it requires one to put forth effort (not easy). If it were easy everyone would be a diamond.

I have also found that when I treated this as a legitimate business and followed the "core steps" my business did grow, but when I tried to do this in a half hearted way (as most people who quit in my personal group did) I went nowhere or worse yet , backwards.

I you claim to be knowledgeable in a system or business then do it for the recommended amount of time, with the recommended amount of effort and see if it doesn't work for you. Nobody that has gone to the level of emerald or above said it was easy, just simple....

Try something and prove it one way or the other before trying to knock it.

Scott

Thank you for the business statistics. My wife and I joined amway, under tremendous pressure from her brother, and i attended only one meeting. What a disaster, with a room full of people pushing the "plan", inhaling that breath spray, and having no real business plan or numbers to back up their claims.

They could not explain to us how many persons (purchasing $200/mo) would need to be in your downline, so you could earn $1,000 per month (which is a measly part-time income).

I read the fine print on the bottom of the application which stated "the average monthly income was $3.50 +/- ", and I was flabbergasted.

How dumb do they think we are??? If the average monthly income was $65, and a handful of diamonds earned over $10,000 per month, then the vast majority must earn well below $0.25.

Fortunately, we dropped out of Amway, and her brother quietly has dropped out too. Unfortunately he has alienated the entire family, and he is too embarrassed to discuss his Amway success story with anyone. I guess his garage is so full of Amway shit, he has no time to see us anymore.

Thanks for the great advice.

Scott,

I have some questions on the following paragraph if you don't mind.

Quixtar and Amway are both "Business Opportunity" franchise systems, or Multi-level-marketing, promoted under the Alticor corporation, formerly the Amway corporation. Unlike other franchises opportunities, Independent Business Owners (IBOs) are given the right to "privately franchise" other "IBOs". Many "Lines of Sponsorship" (LOS), but not all, tell their prospects how to open their own "store", change their shopping habits, and just buy $200/month of everyday products from their own store. Then they teach you to show others to buy from their own stores to increase volume to get larger bonus percentages. Since Quixtar paid out just under 28% of sales last year, every new "$200/month IBO store" would duplicate roughly $56/month or $675 per year in gross profit for the organization. Duplicate your franchise and get paid for teaching others to duplicate theirs. Duplicating one hundred, $200/month "IBO stores" generates about $67,500 per year in gross profits for the organization.

I understand where the 28% comes from.

518 / 143 = 27.6%

What I don't understand is how and why you used that number to get $56/month or $675 per year in gross profit for the organization.

Your $56 per month or $675 per year is close but not accurate for what a single $200/month IBO would generate for that one business.

Assuming the $200 is retail (you do not state which it is) and that it consists solely of Quixtar Exclusive products (you do not state).

BV = 89% of retail

PV/BV retail = 2.6

Retail markup = $30 of BV

200 x .89 = 178BV

178 / 2.6 = 68.46PV

Retail markup = $53.40 x 12 = $640.80

Those are approximate numbers for an IBO doing $200 per month assuming all of the $200 is Quixtar Exclusive products.

What comfuses me is:

Since Quixtar paid out just under 28% of sales last year, every new "$200/month IBO store" would duplicate roughly $56/month or $675 per year in gross profit for the organization.

Please explain how you used the 28% number to arrive at $56/month or $675/year in gross profit?

Stan

Scott,

I understand that you have an interest in the well being of others and I am appreciative that you are not slanderous in your dealings with the Quixtar/Amway opportunities. I do not agree with you on many points but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I currently spend (between my spouse and I) near to 200 dollars on BSM's and that includes all functions, tapes, prospecting materials, voicemail products, and books. Our los teaches a 500 pv circle (retail and personal use) which in todays bv ratio is approximately 1250 bv. You can see that all los's are not the same. We do teach retail as a fundamental practice and we also teach width and I am literally very appalled at some of the stories you have in your case study list. Their stories are so bizarre there is no wonder they became harried and left the business.

On the Quixtar/Amway point there is actually no Amway NA anymore. It has moved all its operations offshore and is actually in the process of rebranding the products to the Access Business group name. Just to clear up the logistics.

I believe that any opportunity for a person is better than no opportunity. I have found in the past couple of months myself being more positive, I have found the advice of my upline to be nothing but the best for me, and in contrast to all the people in your case studies I have had none of the bizarre happenings they alluded to. I only see integrity in my upline and our organization I believe wants us to be profitible whereas you make it sound like they hope for us to stay peons. We teach width, personal use, and retail. So yes...I would agree having read your site that the most important thing in determining whether or not to become involved with Quixtar or Amway offshores is the organization in which you are becoming involved.

The money that I typically spend for tools came out of my entertainment budget and I do not see that as a negative. Tapes, books, and Seminars give me a chance in one way or another to associate with a person or persons who have done something positive in their life. If I spend the money I was using to go out dancing, drink alchohol, or watch movies to associate with positive people am I really losing money or am I gaining perspective and experience? We do not and will never advocate spending money on tools instead of getting shoes for your children. I could not imagine anyone in my upline saying anything of the sort. If you could post this on your case studies I would appreciate it.

Sincerely,

Joshua (Seattle, Wa.)

p.s. I found your site while looking for articles to print out for my boardplan tonight. Wish me luck...its my first one.

Scott,

Appreciate the quick reply. I am also familiar with the statement Ron Puryear made on that tape and that was and is very true what he said. However we all know that the Amway business has negative stigma surrounding it and as a Quixtar IBO I also know that there are still affiliates that dont want to be on the net. But your source that you led me to backs my claims. They are not going to force all Amway IBO's to be in Quixtar so they dont have to change their name but will be serviced by Quixtar which is not the same company as Amway.

IMO Ron has not done a reverse and in my hearing has never dissed Amway but isnt an idiot either. Ron on that tape (I do find it annoying that you take what people say out of context on tapes) was referring to the Amway line of products. They (I am sure you know) offer the highest level of profitability vs other products we house or are linked to. In this statement he was merely stating that a lot of people missed big when the catalog came online in the past (not sure exactly when) and forgot about the "core" line of products. I believe he was simply stating it would be ludicrous to try to push for just the partner stores in Quixtar and we continue to promote (sell, advocate, use) Access business group products (formerly Amway core products) in our business plan and in our presentations.

In my experience listening to tapes and my upline I only hear positive comments about Amway but it doesnt make any sense to not tell it like it is if it would make it more difficult. Man that was a wordy sentence :).

Yes that is $200 a month on tools for the past month and a half averaged out by what I expect to spend on functions and voice mail and such over the year...I have not spent that much so far but I am taking into account what I will be spending. I have not reached the 500 pv goal in the last month and a half but I do have a goal set to have my retail and personal use to that level (with no housing of product) in the next two months as I plan on being a double eagle by July 31st and that is one of the requirements.

My account on Quixtar would be useless to you because most of the volume I have isnt through Quixtar fullfillment but is through my LOS. I am currently personally using and have 2 retail customers bringing my "first circle" to approx. 140 pv. I think it will take 5-10 customers to bring that to 500 pv but I believe I will have no problem attaining my goal.

As I move toward my goals I would like to be a positive example on your site if you would allow me to. I am under the impression that you are looking for real life examples of success/failure in the Quixtar/Amway opportunities and I am going to be one of the success stories.

Thanks for reading,

Joshua

Scott,

Best Regards,
Ram

Good evening, Mr. Larson.

Your top 10+ list

Amway as a corporation is one of the largest in North America, and is probably bigger than the corporation you work for, or own, which ever be the case. In other words, our products are doing just fine.

We have access to the best e-commerce site in the world. If any other web site lets you shop for everything, but fresh fruits and vegetables by email, (with normal consumables I get a check list, it takes about 15 seconds) I am not aware of it.

You praised the self help systems results, dogged it for the cost and failed to point out that our seminars on average cost about 1/5 and the functions cost 1/10 what other motivational seminars will cost. Also, you failed to mention that we have a sixty day satisfaction guarantee on seminars and functions, and a six month guarantee on training materials. You are obviously a very intelligent man. Can you possibly expect to build your financial freedom for nothing?. We could argue motives all day long, the bottom line is that no one builds this business, without the system, and it is a small price to pay if you are willing to see it through.

Furthermore, "ANYONE" 8- 80, crippled blind or crazy, who invests $2000- 3000, a year in their business and does not experience substantial growth, is trying to "BUY" a business. Thankfully, as millions have discovered since 1959, this business does not work that way. It will be "BUILT" by the IBO, or it will not grow. There fore the money goes to the one that "EARNS" it. In other words, our business does not have to worry about the "big money" coming to town and driving us to bankruptcy

A lot of people quit this business. I will agree with that. Can the business be blamed for that?!?

If you put me in a room with ANY IBO , that is not experiencing , consistent growth in his business, if he, or she is truthful, I can nail the problem down in less than five minutes. The bottom line is, this system is incredible. It does work exactly like they say it does.

I paid $47 to get in this business. I get my email, and do most of my shopping in about 15 seconds, go to seminars once a month ($5), and about every other month, go to an out of town function, and spend $300 tops ( It can be done for less than half of that.) and I have a blast. My overhead on tools will run about, $50 a month. (Less than your cable bill probably.) It all boils down to priorities.

This is not a business you go into just to get by. There are easier ways to survive. This Business should be approached with the intention of getting rich, by helping other people succeed. There is no such thing as an organization of 100 people, where 40 of them are investing $2000-3000 a year for a whole year, unless they "aint" showin' the plan. and even then, most of the people will not be around for a year because of a lack of leadership.

The bottom line is, anyone can build this business big, but only a few are willing.

I know this was long, and I thank you for your time.

sincerely

Charles Wright./ Diamond in the rough

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