you have to be one of the DUMBEST MOTHERFUCKERS on earth to post this website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have you ever been an active IBO or were you one of the loosers like the other people that write to you????

Hi, just saw your trash site on Amway,

I can't believe you would 1st ask people to donate and give you money just so you can make a quick buck.

Then I can't believe how totally fucking stupid a person you are to actually waist your time writing MOST of the lies that you wrote to innocent people who would read it.

People in the business are not made to do anything. Your boss makes you do things, in amway it's a good suggestion.

You must be a lonely sorry excuse for a fucking lowly human being, that you have to write such a fucked up story. Please go and die lonely and sad because that is the only life you have ever known and will ever know. What a fucking idiot you have turned out to be.

How's it feel to be trashed little fucker?!!!!

I would never recomend your site to anyone. I wish I would not have found it. I do respect the fact that you have posted both sides of the 'issue' somewhat. You could be completely biased. My husband and I are IBO's for 4 years. I definately believe that the business works if you work it. Most people are prone to laziness and fearfulness, which can prevent success in any endevor. I am sorry that you feel so strongly that you have devoted so much time to your website(s). My family is much better off since being involved with Quixtar and BWW. I have meet so many wonderful people who have become close friends, that is priceless.

Hey Scott...I've been reading your stuff on Quixtar for a few years now.

I have a POOR, pathetic brother/sister-in-law who are deep into Quixtar and have YET to make a profit from it. (Although, they say that MOST of their $$ comes from Quixtar--he makes an additional $52k/yr with our family pest control business--YET, HE IS SO FAR IN DEBT AND CANNOT EVEN MAKE IS MONTHLY RENT! One should be able to raise on family on 52k, but we know where that $ is going)

Anyways, there seems to be a new MLM ("network marketing") scheme out there--XanGO. They sell an extremely overpriced fruit drink containing mangosteen (a fruit). They say it's the only thing out there that contains ALL the healing properties anyone needs for ANY type of medical ailment. They brag about all their "research" that backs them up...I read ALL their research, including PubMed, and NONE of them are a case study on live people...it's all results from a petry dish/animal! Plus, the distributors include "word-of-mouth" studies as research. I'm sure it is healthy & beneficial, but XanGo distributors are preying on people using guilt manipulation (I could give you a few situations I've encountered, if you request them).

Recently, Costco started selling a similar mangosteen juice, Naturally Thai Mangosteen by Agrolabs (which is 80% mangosteen; XanGo won't tell the public how much mangosteen is in their juice). It sells for $18 for a months supply vs. XanGo's $160 monthly suply. Of course, XanGo is in a huff now, saying they filed a lawsuit against Agrolabs because "just by them creating/selling this juice infringes on their patent." Also, they say THEIR product is better because their process is better--but there is NO research to back that up!

They have other claims that they are the "fastest growing company" in the world...they've "outsold Pepsi", etc. Of course, you may not see these claims on their website, but it's what EVERY distributor I've encountered (some not associated with others) has said--it could have been done in a perfect chorus because their wording/tone was exactly the same! And, yes...they believe they will become wealthy off of selling this single product!

So, if you ever have any down time on writing about Quixtar, I was kinda hoping you could touch on XanGo.

Keep up the good work!

~Melissa T.

that's some funny stuff you have up there. I'm currently near the end of the book merchants of deception I just wanted to wish you well

oh man seriously that line about "does your upline know you've been reading negative websites" that was just too funny.

seriously you should be commended.

Hi Scott,

Pardon my English my first language is French :o)

Wow am I ever glad I found your website. A week ago a friend called my house and said he was coming over " I have an idea I want to run by you" he said. They called back the same day before arriving and told us they were bringing a guy with them to talk to us. I turned to my girlfriend and said ahhhh here we go another one of those scams must be something like Amway. We invite them in and we all sat at the kitchen table. He started by asking us If we had ever shopped online and if we knew of how the internet was going to revolutionize the world !! I told him of course I do ( I’m an IT professional employee of the Government in Canada ) so we sat and listened to the " PLAN ". Never once mentioned anything about Amway so I thought to myself well maybe this is legit… of course all I could think of was all the money he said we could make from this and that by working 5-10hrs/week we could be making $4000.00/month within 2 – 5 years. We were blown away and true believers at that point.

We were just caught up in all the hype ( THE DREAM ). That’s what they do they kind of force this on to new recruits and don’t give you enough time to think about it.

They came back 2 days later and filled our minds with hopeless dreams and financial freedom…I’m SO STUPID…we paid them $260.00 to join this fucking shitty little business they called Quixtar !! And we bought enough stuff to get our monthly quota of 100 PV’s.. So I spent the little bit of money I had saved up on this thing about $400.00

Scott, do you know anything about a company called True North. This is based in Alberta/Canada. Here is their website.. www.truenorth.ab.ca ( I have the user name and password for the website but I’m not sure if I would get into legal issues by giving this to you..?

I’ve only been able to find 1 little forum that mentions this company True North. Here is what they’ve said about it (see below)

""True North" is a Amway Motivational Organization. They use deception to look at a "plan" and make sure they do not use the name Amway or call it powered by Quixtar. What a scam! You're actually an Amway peddler! If you want the truth, read the book Merchants of Deception at http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/purpose.html."

This is more bullshit they fed us.. told us that True North was where we would go for support and that Quixtar was where we would buy our products. Now that I’ve uncovered their little scam I know that True North must be a name that Amway is hiding behind in Canada.

I hope you can answer some of my questions….KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!!

It pissed me off that I lost $260.00 but at least I figured out within a week of being an IBO that Quixtar and Amway True North….what ever you call them..they are all there to scam you !!!!!

You can post this in any way you would like. I don’t care if people see my name one bit !

Philippe

Thank you so very much for saving me from the deceipt and waste of time recently presented to me. We should be giving you the start up fee!! Thank YOU!

Your mortgage banker,

Joshua G.

Dear Mr. Larsen,

Keep up the good work. I only wish that I had googled your site a couple of months ago and saved myself some wasted energy and my last dime, as it were. I'm a single mother with four kids--three of them special needs children, adopted through Foster Care. My oldest and only biological child's father died when she was two, so we've been on our own for some time (she's sixteen now). I had a good job, at the time that I adopted my other children (who have been with me for seven years) but an industrial accident that permanently damaged my hand has left me without employment and we have struggled over the past few years, so when a friend I thought I could trust approached me about a business opportunity, I was ready to try anything.

Of course, having numerous relatives and acquaintances who were taken to the cleaners by Amway back in the eighties, my first response was: this isn't Amway, or multilevel marketing, is it? I was assured that it was not. The business was represented to me as a health and fitness franchise. Quixtar was not mentioned to me. I was told only the business name that my friends had chosen for their franchise and was assured that the business was product driven. Since the products in question were quality health and fitness products, I analyzed the local market and determined that I could make a reasonable profit, with some hard work, and move enough product to get my family stabilized. I wasn't looking to get rich quick and made it clear to my friend and her husband that I was heavily in debt and had no resources to spend on inventory, or start-up costs. They assured me this would not be necessary and that I would not have to invest anything but hard work in this business.

Then the first hint of these assurances being bogus appeared. I was invited to a seminar with Dean Kosage--a seminar that 'only' cost six dollars to attend. I reminded my friends that in my current state of financial disarray, six dollars was actually a substantial amount--a loaf of bread and a carton of eggs and some mac and cheese to us. They insisted that I attend this conference, before getting my order for that week, and since I had spent the week working on moving product and had people counting on its delivery, I went. Besides, I reasoned that six dollars really wasn't all that much money and that it might even be reasonable, if the meeting provided some good marketing tips. It didn't.

Dean was a dynamic speaker, but his lack of basic business fundamentals was alarming. My extended family is reasonably wealthy--the members own major franchises like RC Willey and I am a former National Junior Achievement finalist, so I have some background there and while it is true that you must spend money to make money,it is never sound financial advise to go into debt--especially without reasonable expectation that the debt can be repaid. Dean reiterated the spiel about the business being an internet franchise, and kept talking about the commissions available for driving traffic to companies such as Circuit City--a solid strategy, until you realize that in order for these commissions to amount to more than a pittance, you would have to be directing millions of people a day to these sites--and having them make substantial purchases, while there. I wasn't particularly concerned with this aspect of the business, as I figured that every little pittance helps, and if you were making enough off the fitness products, then the rest could just add a little here and there.

My clue that the business was not in existence to move product, however, came when the product that I had ordered (and had customers pay for in advance) was not available when promised and was, indeed not available for three more weeks. I order on the net all the time and with the exception of holiday peak times it is unheard of to wait three weeks for a product. But it wasn't the wait alone that concerned me. It was the attitude of the up line. They behaved as if they did not owe customers an apology and as if the customers had no right to be annoying and demand to know where their purchases were. The up-line was, in point of fact, utterly unconcerned with placating, or even dealing with customers. Rather than addressing my concerns about product distribution, my new 'up-line' wanted to concentrate on how I was going to come up with four hundred dollars to attend an up-coming conference in Nevada. They didn't want me concentrating on sales, but rather on getting pumped up to sale. At the time, I had several potential big customers for their fitness water (a product which has yet to actually become available, though it was used in the pitch that hooked me) and felt that my time was better spent building a relationship with those customers. My up line went ballistic, insisting that I couldn't possibly handle the customers, without attending the seminar. I reminded them that I had a couple decades of retail management experience (which they of course claimed amounted to nothing more than brainwashing meant to keep me a corporate flunkie.) I then further reminded them of my lack of resources and of the fact that even if I wanted to waste four hundred dollars on a 'pump you up' session, I didn't have it to waste. They actually wanted to know if I had something I could hock, or some relative who would loan me the money, at that point. I insisted that I was going with the internet franchise and going to just slowly build a business base and that when I was actually making a small profit then and only then would I consider wasting money on a seminar. After some haranguing and my refusing to back down, (I did say I would go if they would pay for it and let me reimburse them out of my profits) they agreed to set up the internet store for me (I did pay for that, regrettably.) It was only when the materials came from the store--along with the information that I was now signed up for a 'standing order' of motivational materials that I would have to pay for each week--never mind that I already owned many of the books on the orders, such as Dale Carnegie's masterpiece--that I found out that I was actually dealing with Amway/Quixtar and I was furious. I had made it clear to my friends that my circle of acquaintances would have nothing to do with Amway and that I could not sell Amway products to any of those people. I had asked directly and repeatedly about the connection (especially when some terms, like 'diamond' rang bells.) I had been assured over and over that there was no connection--that their business was not multi-level and that it was their business. ____enterprises, not Amway.

Because our situation was so desperate and because I had a few people willing to buy product, I continued to go to meetings for a month or so, in the hopes of recouping my investment. At these meetings, I was bullied and cajoled, but remained firm in my refusal to provide the up line with names they could use to 'build my business for me'. (With the exception of a single friend, whom I regrettably had asked to help me with some sales before finding out what was up--they harass her too, now.) Or to go to seminars in Portland and elsewhere. (Attending these seminars would have been expensive in the extreme--not just because of the initial costs and travel costs, but because I have no family in the area where I live and would have had to fork out a small fortune for a sitter.)

At present, my former friends call constantly, harassing me about the seminars and harassing my kids, if I don't happen to be home. The expense of the Amway site (which I tried unsuccessfully to cancel) put a dent in our already stretched budget and because of the late product distribution (which was a consistent problem) I was unable to keep the few customers that I had. People don't want to pay for make-up and sports drinks that they can buy locally and then not receive the item for up to a month. Since I do not have a spouse and the business is set up on a 'mommy stays home daddy works' model, it was never a good fit for me--it's mostly men at the meetings and they clearly resent a woman in their midst who isn't there to support some guy--although they try to butter you up and claim that the business will be wonderful for you because you will get to spend time with your kids. In the few weeks I was going to the meetings, I had far less time with my children than I had when I was working a forty hour week. At least with the latter, my schedule permitted me evenings and weekends with them. The seminars were scheduled at times when the kids were not in school. The people running the meetings had clearly been trained to try and use my love for my children against me and to try to frame any objections I had to operations in terms of me not loving my kids. (What, pray tell, does whether or not I love my kids have to do with my inability to keep customers from getting pissed about late orders? Customers don't love my kids, or care if they starve. They just want their product on time.)

I finally parted ways with these people entirely, cutting my losses, a couple of weeks ago, when an unrelated financial problem was pressing. Because a check that someone had written to me was returned insufficient funds, my account went into the negative, causing a snowballing of fees, and a freezing of my account that caused a loan to be demanded paid in full, as the interest was not forthcoming on time. As a result, I ended up two thousand dollars in the hole and on a tight time frame for coming up with the money. My 'friend' called, during this time, haranguing about the business, and informing me that if I would just give her some names, her husband could get things going and I could be making some real money within a few weeks. I informed her that I needed real time solutions and that I had to put my energy into solving this mess. I informed her that a majority of my friends were no better off than I am and could not afford seminars and that the rest were far too savvy about such things to be bilked into spending money, before they were making any. She insisted that Amway could solve my money problems. Having lost patience at that point, I asked if Mr. Billionaire Dean Kosage was going to float me a loan--since he was such a philanthropist and I was a struggling single mom and all it would take to get me on my feet was five thousand at a reasonable interest rate. I said that if I could get my finances thus stabilized, I would be happy to spend additional time concentrating on business issues. I was informed that, "Well, no, but you can easily make two thousand dollars in a month at this business." I said, bluntly, "Are you making that?" She and her husband have been in the business for four years. She sputtered that, "Well, no, but we haven't really been 'working' the business. We've been doing it our own way and not following the plan." I informed her that she had been following the plan for the several months that I had been involved with it and that if she was not yet clearing two thousand a month that I had no reasonable expectation of doing so by the end of the month. I told her I was dealing with pressing, real life problems, and that I did not have time for faith based initiatives. I told her that she had known me long enough that she should have realized that no matter how high my personal financial flames were flaring, I was not the sort of person that could make money off of other unsuspecting people who could ill afford the losses. I'm not a Dean Kosage. I can't take a single mom's last dime and sleep at night.

And I consider him as responsible as my friends are for the deception end of this mess, because it is crystal clear from the meetings I attended that he has taught these people to lie. He has taught them to misrepresent themselves as franchises--to lie about the seminars--they're not required; you can just move product. He and his cohorts know that Amway is a hiss and a by word in many parts of the country, so they now teach their downline to use unrelated names and to introduce themselves under the names of their affiliates. You can even set up your 'franchise' website so that it doesn't betray your affiliation with Amway or Quixtar. You can keep people from knowing that you even sell the Amway specific products.

I don't know what will happen to my own family in the next few weeks, as we are in serious trouble, but I am furious that I was duped into wasting so much energy on a project that, had I known it was Amway, I would never have wasted a moment on. They stole time from me that could have been focused in a more productive direction. I also would not have wasted time on any project where the product was not the driving force behind the business. If I had been told up front that seminars were required, I would never have been involved. I also know that Dean Kosage and his cohorts could care less if my family ends up in the streets--although my hopes and dreams for my family are what they preyed on. They will preach to others that I simply didn't have enough faith, or work hard enough, but I made several hundred dollars in sales my first week with them. I am not afraid of rolling up my sleeves. If they had any idea the work I have done with my adopted children--what it has taken to bring them from smearing feces on walls and themselves to being normal every day kids--laziness is not even an accusation they would conceder levying. And when I broke my hand, I was throwing freight--not a job for the hot house orchid. As far as I am concerned, the WWG people committed fraud. They did it cleverly enough that my former friends (who are over extended in the extreme and thus have no assets to seize) will likely be the fall guys, should they be prosecuted for the fraud, but it's fraud just the same. I asked direct questions about Amway and was given fraudulent answers--at the up-line's direction. (I heard up-line give such directions.) I asked specific questions about multilevel marketing, up-front costs, seminars, and products and was given fraudulent answers. When I approached sales from a 'this is a good product' (and some of them are) angle, I was instructed to 'sell the sizzle not the meat.' Well, all I can say to that is that the only time you 'sell the sizzle' is when you don't have any meat. Good steak sells itself.

These people are liars. They claim their business is based on Christian ideals, but I've read the Bible cover to cover numerous times and have yet to find the passages that excuses lying in the name of making a buck by squeezing the widow's last mite out of her. I did, however, find a passage by an itinerant rabbi that claimed that true and undefiled religion consisted of caring for the widows and the fatherless. But what does that guy know? He didn't even have enough vision to get a lowly forty hour a week job.

Sincerely,

(if angrily)

Kristy S.

Hey Scott,

Its Salvador, I wrote you a couple of days saying that Quixtar had my family. Over the weekend, I had a chance to meet and speak to the Quixtar "cult leader". This is the way he decribed the business: Its a web based business helping people change thier spending habits by buying the same things they would usually buy but at the end of the month they get a check. The way it works was that they are building a deep leg, that way you will always have a downline. So even if you don't do anything (just buy your normal things for the month), you will receive a check because of your downline. He said all new recruits would be placed under you and when you feel you are ready, they would help you create width. He said a diamond who started the Mexico division would be helping everyone (his name was Lance from the Legacy Business group). What are some questions that I can ask him and some rebuttals to his responses. Also, have you heard of Lance from the Legacy Business group? Appreciate all you help! (thanks)\

Salvador

I would like to thank you for your website. I used to have a small site, until Amway started fling all the lawsuits to get them shut down before their Quixtar "debut"

I was approached about Amway in July of 1996, signed up August 2, 2006. I was active for about a year and a half, until it became obvious that my "upline" was trying to force their religion upon me, and had no intention of stopping. I saved every tape, including tapes of "open meetings", and notes I took at various meetings. If anyone can use copies of these for support groups or lawsuits, they can email me and I will do my best to supply them.

Amway has recently come to the fore-front in my life, as a friend has been approached about "Quixtar" and had attended an open meeting. I contacted the people involved, and have instructed them to not contact them again. I wouldn't wish Amway / Quixtar upon my worst enemy, much less a friend.

BTW, I now run a "real" business. One that makes a profit, and I can rely on to pay my bills. No, it's not easy, and I'm not getting rich. But it's real, and honest.

Thank You,

Jason S.

Scott

I have an update on Dave Gurubel. He is according to the website, www.growthpro.com, the vice-president of the company. Growthpro seems to be a privately owned company that attempts to help mlmers and mlm companies with their many different training systems. Also my former upline Platinum spoke with Chad Connelly recently, I believe in an attempt to recruit him into her current mlm co. She emailed to us that he shared with her that there were some things that were going on in the business that he was not happy with. After I read that I felt lead to email him my Quixtar horror story. He emailed me back and shared that we needed to talk soon. I thought this would be of interest to you since you were in Billy's group also.

I have never done this before. But I love your site so much I had to share this. My wife and I are former IBO's. We were in for 4 years in the late 90's and had a small group of 25 that yielded a couple hundred $$ per month. We had the same issues as everyone else, spent a fortune on tools, products and seminars because our upline said we were the most ambitious couple they ever met and were sure to be Diamonds (Yeah right).

Anyway, I am in the grocery store today and there is a young well dressed man that has another man with an infant trapped in idle conversation. I noticed the dressy guy holding a CD in his hand. I moved closer to over hear him telling the prospect that he needed his phone number and address because naturally he would need to get his CD back. He told the prospect that this business opportunity changed his life and after working for Pratt & Whitney Aircraft for 15 years his part time income with this business opportunity surpassed his fultime income and that after 3 short years he was able to quit his job and now he is free. I had all I could do to keep from exploding into laughter. I heard the same lines used on me 7 years ago. "This may not be for you." "Take a look for yourself, we'll get back together and talk." "Are you open and looking for an opportunity?"

They are still out there actively trying to suck in young, hard working people for their Tool Money. Just thought I would share.

Jim B.

Found out that ex Diamond Jim Nealis is back to his old Neurological job. Serves him right after the 6 years I spent in his group, he had me sucked in and I lost a ton of cash in the 90's.

Can still hear him telling me not to pay my mortgage bill because the major function was more important. Thank goodness I bailed out, all it took was to run a profit and loss.

Here is the link, he is pictured (real small 2nd from the right) http://jaxneuroclinic.com/AboutUs.asp

Also looks like old Brig has got something new to run with, http://brighart.biz/

Scott,

Your site is great. I can see how Quixtar is a no-win situation. But, my in-laws have been "brainwashed" by a local group here in California. Can you help me explain to them that Quixtar is a waste of their tme and money. Right now they are all about stacking. Can you help me explain to them that width is better than stacking? (thanks)

Salvador

Folks, We were IN Amway 15 years without building a successful business to the Diamond level. I have read your comments-----Amway is a business just like any other business-- Selling products to customers and getting other people to do the same thing. Build the business the way the founders intended and you will not have anything to crab about. The meetings,functions,tapes and books are for your self improvement. Who held a gun to your head and forced you to attend or spend your money??? What a bunch of sour grapes!!! Buelah ( 71 years old ) Yes, I am looking forward to rejoining and using the Internet as a sponsoring tool Boy will all those HUNDREDS of tapes come in handy--they are and will always be great to listen too.
Put that in your pipe an smoke it!!!!!!!!

Scott

Dave Gurubel is or was an Emerald in Billy Florence's downline. While we were active in Quixtar from '97 til '03 his group was probably the largest at Billy's Weekend Functions. We used to live in AL and showed the plan to a lot of the same people in the Auburn area. If you still have any contacts in Team DCI they will tell you how much spotlight he gets from Billy. If I read your info right you were in Billy's group under Chad Connely right? To my knowledge the only Diamond that Billy had was sponsored by Dave, Steve Gardner. While we were active Steve and Elaine Gardner made a final speech at a function that was attended by Jerry Falwell telling how great their life was and that they had moved to their dream home in Colorado. That was the last we saw of them. Around the end of '03 my wife looked him up to see what had happened to them. Steve told her that he was still in the business, but was inactive. He also told her that the money and time investment at the Diamond level was not worth it. He is currently in the mortgage loan business. If you have an old Profiles of Success he and his wife are in there.

Hello Scott,

I'd like to know more about your experiences in the business. what I observe is that they tend to put a lot of pressure in terms of buying and time. Some guy in my upline has a trunkload of tapes and stuff. . I mentioned this to my upline and they said those people are all 95%ers. Every thing is answered by a question. He's trying to sell me the top 50 cds and trying to get me plans and such.

All I'm waiting is to get out of his association and start my own team. Please reply about some stuff u had to go through. I go to opens and its practically the same thing every single time. I've helped sign up a few people, my downline seems to be growing and I'm listening to stuff, today another story on system (sigh). Anyway more input would help. I somehow feel unnerved to ask upline stuff. They speak well.

Tell me some other questions to ask. I asked about Dexter Yager and they got a little uncomfortable. Anyway more input would most definitely help :).

Kumar

Saludos Sr. Foley.

Soy del Uruguay, y fui asociado desde el principio, en ese país, en la línea del Sr. Fabio de Souza, le dedique todo mi esfuerzo, y mis bienes a este negocio, llegue a perder, todo hasta mi reputación y me tuve que alejar de mi país, donde, el negocio, fue todo un fracaso, nunca recibí ayuda de mi línea de auspicio, la cual nunca se intereso demasiado de un mercado que antes de empezar ya estaba condenado al desastre, vi. caer personalidades importantes, que también le dieron un gran esfuerzo, y hasta hoy me sigo preguntando, que paso, todos fueron apagándose y muchos como mi familla quedamos quebrados, sicológicamente, y económicamente, es que fuimos parte de un engaño, o algo por el estilo, no lo se, pero si se que amigos de años, ya no quieren saber nada de uno, he quedado como mentiroso, y estafador, ante mucha gente, que siempre creyeron, en mi.

Estamos viviendo en Miami tratando de comenzar de nuevo, y tener por lo menos el estilo de vida que llevábamos en Uruguay, quise localizar al principio de estar aquí a algún conocido de este negocio pero no se los encuentra, no Aparecen Pedro Lizardi, Armando Gutiérrez, Luy Carrillo, Estela Salinas, Carmen Hetchevaerria, el Azúcar, Pedro Hernández, y muchos otros que iban y nos llenaban de esperanzas de un estilo de vida, maravilloso, y por que se esconden, por que cuando nos estábamos viniendo abajo nos dejaron caer hasta el fondo, si el mercado no servia, y fueron capaces de cerrar Pronet Uruguay, ya vaticinaban que no funcionaba, por que no nos avisaron para no caer tan bajo, hasta la sede de AMWAY, fue mudada a un lugar mas retirado, Sr. Foly, por que, no nos advirtieron, me da mucha pena , nuestra familla, creía ciegamente, en ustedes, que los recibíamos con mucha alegría, y aquí se esconden,

Atte

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