Scott,

   My daughter and her husband have just become an IBO and we went and listened to the spiel this past weekend. We have also become and IBO. Below are a few thoughts I have had over reading some of your thoughts on your website.

   There ARE some pros and cons for joining and developing your new business, if you wish to work at the business. I would like to re-iterate the phrase WORK. But if you are willing to commit the time and energy into the development of your business, there is no reason why you could not succeed. I will probably not work this business for whatever reason. But I will take advantage of the retail side of things and get the discounts and products I would use anyway, whether it be from Quixtar or from me buying on a different web-site.

   I would like to have an intelligent discussion with you about Amway and Quixtar, that is if you would like to do that. It takes to much time to write a discussion, so if you would like to call me sometime, that would be great. You can reach me at the below two phone numbers.

   By the way, I have been in the Computer/Networking business for 33 years. You know, back before there was an Internet and e-mail and PC's.

Thanks for listening,

HELLO SCOTT,

 I HAVE BEEN READING ABOUT AMWAY QUIXTAR ON YOUR QUIXTAR AMWAY BUSINESS ANALYSIS SITE.  I HAVE A FRIEND WHO HAS RECENTLY BEEN TALKING QUIXTAR.  THAT IS ABOUT ALL HE CAN TALK ABOUT!  AFTER ATTENDING A MEETING TODAY, HE TELLS ME THAT IN APRIL HE WILL BECOME A “CROWN AMBASSADOR” AND BE EARNING $4,000,000 A MONTH.  ALSO AT THAT TIME HE WILL BE ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.  I AM  SOMEWHAT WORRIED ABOUT ALL OF THIS AND THOUGHT MAYBE YOU COULD ENLIGHTEN ME AND LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS POSSIBLE?  I  AM BEGINNING TO THINK THIS YOUNG MAN IS DELUSIONAL!

KATHLEEN

saw your webpage....here is some info for it....a couple on there, Alex and Stephanie Zangari, have filed for bankruptsy less than 2 months ago.   Pennlive.com.....do a search

Hi Scott,

I submitted my story to you several years.  I enjoy reading up on the latest on what's going on with Amway/Quixtar or whatever they call themselves these days.

Your recent postings regarding long time diamonds leaving or being terminated leads me to wonder about the stability and long time viability of the company.   RE: Don Wilson, Billy Florence, Randy Haugen and many others which I have met at YNMI.  Sounds like Dexter's business lost a huge revenue chunk.

I attended Dexter Yager's 2nd YNMI seminar for the "fast tracker's" which held in North Carolina fully paid by my up line diamond (Barb & Lee Waters) which joined Dexter teaching approach in the early 1990's.

The philosophy of the business association IBOA, the liaison between the people and the company does not seem to be worth anything these day per your postings and Randy Haugens confessions.  Sounds like it, the IBOA does not carry anymore weight with the corporation, if it ever did.  The distributors appear to be alone with NO voice.  Our upline double diamond, Barb Waters was on that board when I was in the business.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks,

Scott

Dear Scott,

I found you site very interesting. I am employed as a researcher in the engineering field, and enjoy the way you have broken down specific points and provided information to substantiate points.

My reason for writing is based on the cost effective use of the products. Unfortunately your site only pertains to the States. I live in South Africa, and have conducted by own cost analysis, and found the Amway products to be far cheaper for the average household products.

I am by no means running around like an Ama-roid, but was approached by a friend, did the research, joined and found over the last few months that I am satisfied with the products. Another point, is that it appears your site is outdated? I am often on the 9% level (rebate) without spending any money (not requiring any purchases for that month). You talk about having to spend a certain amount to get the 3% back which is entirely correct.

Anyhow, interesting site. Just thought you should know that there are some points that need correcting, and that it does not hold true for SA it terms of costing on the average household goods.

Kind regards
Clinton

Hi Scott,

My husband and I were in Quixtar for about 6 years until we found out about how much $$$ Emeralds and above were making on the tools/functions rather than from the products which we were always led to believe would "set us free"! Not only were we spending almost $1,000 a month on products/tapes/meetings/functions but our marriage almost dissolved due to the enormous amount of stress we were under! We were encouraged to be "Team Players" and be in the 600PV club and be recognized on stage.....AH! We couldn't afford furniture or anything else because we had to "pump" everything into the business!

I am so glad that we finally saw the big clear picture! Now, We are happily married with beautiful children and just moved into a HUGE home....this would never had occurred had we stayed in the business. You see our up line discouraged us from having children, according to him, they were too much trouble and would take our focus from the business!

We were in Lennon Ledbetters group and I just have to tell you that he is a SNAKE and I am in shock looking back now that we never saw what kind of a person he really is! I heard he and Suzanne are now divorced? Is that true? Doesn't surprise me really especially since he cheated on her....shame really

Anyway, keep up the great work spreading the word!

Natali

Hi Scott,

My brother and sister in law, just dumped their beautiful 2 year old daughter with his sister and went to a WWDB function in OR. Correct me if I am wrong, but in 06 I believe this function was held at the Portland Rose Garden which is huge. This year I beleive it was held at the Portland Civic Center which is half the size.  If that's correct it does not bode well for WWDB.

Brad

Pretty dumb to talk about something that you don't no the hell about it. Pretty weird that some people has to do a conspiracy theory about every fucking little thing. Don't you know that people are aware about how hard it is to build own buissness like for example Peter Cox has, they don't need your little information sites about it, besides you really have to be hell of a dumb ass, that you don't realize that people applies this information for normal worklife too, to become a better chief of the human resources, for marketing or to develope their leadership skills. NO ONE THINKS THAT YOU'LL GET RICH WITHOUT WORKING, as you get people to think. I give you one advice: don't drop your school, gaduate, because human this stupid really needs education. BTW it must be nice being brainwashed to work for most time of your life, or did you have your own business but you are so fucking lazy that it failed and you (as a loser) quitted. DONT EVER TELL PEOPLE HOW TO THINK BEFORE YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THEIR LIFE.

veera anttila

Scott:
I'd prefer to remain anonymous.  I applaud you for your site and efforts to bring truth to the fore.
Some facts about Duncan are incorrect.

1) Lawsuit against Cetalon: He (nor Sarshela) did NOT win; Cetalon did NOT lose.  The last action was Cetalon requesting the whole case be dismissed in 04/07.  hmmm why would they do that after initially seeking over $40mm?  Because they came to an agreement!  It was settled out of court for $7.5mm.  Duncans claims the case cost him $9mm are complete BS.  Remember that he owns Sarshela in part so any costs would have been divided equally!

2) He no longer owns any property - he lost all six in MT to foreclosure last year.   The bankruptcy docs are dated 07 and 08 and no longer valid.  His asset base no longer includes any properties because he simply doesn't own any!  You can check with the local police dept - he changed the locks on the house he was in and had to be removed/evicted...not very dignified way to go, but those houses are gone!  Here's one of them now up for re-sale since it's been purchased by the new owner: http://www.coldwellbanker.com/servlet/PropertyListing?action=detail&ComColdwellbankerDataProperty_id=14855788&page=property
How impressive are his assets now?

3) He is in Chapter 7 right now and fighting to get back in Chapter 11 to try and convince the IRS and courts that he can pay it back.

4) I would suggest his estimate of Sarshela value and his share is grossly inflated.   Anyway: in this economy who would pay him $36mm for a company that sells one product, to one customer, with greatly declining sales?  Again I ask how impressive is his asset list now?

5) He is/was a triple diamond.  IBOFB likes to think critics always claim the 'cash lifestlye' applies to any diamond, when he says it should really only apply to the bigger pins (double, triple and above etc...)  OK - this guy has been a triple for some time.  secondly the supposed 'massive income' that IBOFB claims these big pins wheel in didn't apply even to Duncan: according to the documents his income from his Amway/Speaking business was not even $1mm per year.  So these things combined and yet still he couldn't afford such a cash lifestyle and he couldn't even pay his cable bill....strange given he was banking over $100k per month from all income sources.....

Pride cometh before the fall....

Good morning,
        I was recently reading your site and found it quite interesting. I hope that you read all of my email. First I would like to congratulate you for the success of your site. It is very well written and easy to follow. Second just so that you know I am currently an IBO my self. I do agree with you on some points but not entirely.

        I have actively been in the business for about 2-3 months now but have been around it for almost a year and a half now. My upline does preach about the dream but they also talk about responsibly running a business. I have heard many stories of people losing thousands of dollars to this business and in all honesty the reason they did was probably because they were idiots. When I started I paid about $68 for the registration/ support fees and they suggested that I purchase in intro kit to sample out some of the products. That in itself made sense because I cant really sell products if I don’t have anything to demo. I have found that some of the products are way over priced, but others are reasonably priced with the market, the XS energy drinks are a good example. The first thing that my upline did was teach me about legitimizing my business. They showed me how to make sales and focused on that," since we get paid off of moving products, not recruiting". They also told me to create a separate bank account for my business and taught me how to keep records and stuff like that.  In my first month my business ran about 350pv (just over 50pv was from personal use) which is just over $1000 in sales. That put me in the 6% bonus bracket.  My bonus was about $58 and my profits from retail were about $250. So all in all I received about $300 Gross my first month. They had me set aside 30% to cover majority of the taxes and I have my stuff filed for tax deductions (mileage, phone, books/cds (I have spent about $30 since I started and it was only for CDs that would help me learn other selling tactics) I have had 2 meetings that were about an hour and a half long, and a regional (which has always talked more about being responsible than the dream) about 2 hours, each month and I spend maybe 2-3 hours a week talking to people and showing off products. So I spend about 17 hours a month on my quixtar stuff ($300/ 15 hours = $20per hour) $20 an hour is not really that bad before taxes.. Its more than I make on my fulltime job. But that was only my first month. I buy stuff from my self but only have transferred stuff that I was already spending to my business so im really not changing my budget and im getting a little back. (I buy retail from my self… since I consider it good business practice. If a business gave everything away it would not last very long.

 A few of my friends saw what I was doing and became interested (4 total as of now) and they have each done the same thing as me. So im now in the 15% bonus bracket with just over 1700 pv. That is about a $600 bonus, and about 200 goes to my friends since they are all at around 300pv. So $400 from bonuses and about 300-400 from retail sales. So im making about $800 gross from my quixtar business. After taxes (30% we use as an estimate) and my business expenses, my premier website $50, $20 for website hosting (so that I can have a www.myname.com site versus a www.myname.wwdb.biz site), the $5 and some change (yearly registration renewal 68 / 12 = 5.67) and $40 for my business voicemail service I am still profiting about $440-450 a month. I know its not a whole lot but an extra 450 a month does help a lot, it pays for my car and my phone and its still growing slowly.

        Like I said before I do agree with some of what you have said, but I think that the problem is not with the business model itself, but with some of the people that are in the business. Some people do get ripped off, even in legitimate things. Honestly though, smart enough to know not to spend thousands of dollars when they are only making hundreds of dollars its probably not quixtars falt, with exceptions being to the dishonest people out there, its their fault for being idiots and they are probably the same ones that get suckered into high interest credit cards, arm mortgages, and everything else.

Respectfully,

Scott,

Thought I would pass this LA Times article info on to you. Tests conducted from 6 to 9 years revealed no benefits against certain health problems.

I bet we won't see this info on any Nutrilite commercials soon(: 

You know what is great is that we live in America and you can express your opinion on anything. I love that. What is also great about living in America is that I have the opportunity to make an extra $1000 to $1500 (depending on the mth) outside of the title (job) that has made me miserable for countless yrs. The job I am in has sucked the life out or hundreds of people and I get to hear them complain and moan and groan everyday and I feel sorry for them b/c people have given them opportunities (not just Quixtar/Amway) to be free from the one thing that defines their lives (their job). But they have such low self worth b/c everyone in this world says that they cant do something they aren’t good enough they aren’t smart enough they aren’t worthy of success everything is a scam. Their lives are so miserable they have to go and get peoples OPINIONS and they miss out on what God wants for them FREEDOM. Freedom to raise their kids and do what is right for them not what they can afford, freedom to do what they were called to do, freedom form the dollar bill that controls all our lives…even yours, and freedom from that sick feeling you get every Sunday night about 6:00 b/c you have to go back to prison (your job) tomorrow…now if you love your job that is great I am happy for you…but there are people out there who hate there jobs and they let it define them and it makes them miserable and it sucks ever ounce of joy from their bodies. What stinks is that gets transferred into everyone around them. See I have a high self worth and I knew I was made to be something great so I went out and found positive opinions and FACTS b/c someone just showed me a way to not be like those hundreds of co workers who hate their lives.  God did not intend for it to be that way…he did not want me to be in a cubicle for 8 hrs out of the day where I am bored out of my mind and resort to writing an Amway/ Quixtar hater. I don’t even know if you are going to read this, you probably get hundreds of these a day… I just want you to realize that God is bigger than you and me and I have a whole team of people to prove it. I have given my guys purpose a dream a since of self worth. See you are missing the most important side of this business and that is HELPING people. Yeah there are bad groups out there but not mine I can guarantee that. When I get out of my job everyday I get to be filled up with positive people who want something more out of life. People who have more to say than “another day another dollar” and people who have something positive to say about LIFE… we only get one!! I don’t want to turn out like my parents who are still working at 61 and 63 and are miserable and have a very bleak future. See what you don’t see is that the alternative to this business is another 40 yrs of prison…I say prison b/c I feel trapped when I am in my job. I want to be happy. If you can show me another way to get out of the rat race I am in…not to mention the $50,000+ I have in student loans and debt… I am all ears. I don’t know if you have another way but I found a way I added $12,000+ to my income this yr. so by you saying this business doesn’t work is insane. But what is so great is in America everyone can voice an opinion.  Take care and God bless.

Cory Yarbrough

Cory,

Thanks for the note.  If you added a net income of $12,000 this year due to your Amway business, then congratulations!

Then you are one of the very few that have reported profits from their business.   Most people will try to be deceptive and tell me the $12,000 was profit when it was actually gross income, and then it got eaten up by expenses.

Have you done this little experiment before?  Ask everyone in your downline to give you their net profit for the year.   If no one is really retailing you will find that you have taught your group on average to lose money.   So much for helping people.   At least they are happy while working for pennies for Amway and paying for the right to sell their products at a loss.   The illusion that people make money comes from the fact that the new people are working for nothing.  The pyramid structure makes the numbers look for a few like you.

Best wishes and congratulations on your net profit!

Scott

Well thank you it took a lot of hard work and persistence. Something our society doesn’t teach any more. But I get to teach it to my guys which is cool. Yes I definitely push retail it will fund your business when you have little income coming in. Which is awesome that the LTD system is promoting b/c it gives people belief and confidence to stand up against the nay sayers.

I am curious what you do for a living? Also curious if you have ever started your own business before…outside of Amway/ Quixtar? Because if you have you will realize that everyone starts in the hole. I have a friend who started is own tanning salon. You realize he spent $200,000+ and has been in business for about 2 ½ /3yrs and still hasn’t made a drop of profit but he knows he is making money and he realizes that the only way he will loss is if he quits or shuts the place down. By the way even thou he is making money and is still in a lot of debt due to his initial investment he still invests everyday in his salon… up grading and marketing and advertising (he is investing towards what he wants the shop to be not what it is today)…because that is how investing in a business works. His investments are exactly what they say they are… investments. He will start making profit with in the next yr…thank God he did not listen to his parents who told him he was stupid for investing money he did not have. See if he would have listened to them he would of just handed over his dream of owning his own salon to his parents/ people who never once offered him an alternative to fulfill his dream. I am so glad I invested in Quixtar b/c now I am seeing profit…if I had not invested in people and products in the early days I would have never seen the profit. What is so cool is I was in my guys shoes 6 mths ago where I wasn’t seeing anything but money going out . My mentor was in my shoes a yr before me. That is where the thought process comes in. You CAN NOT run a business with employee mentality. Employee mentality says invest when you start making money. That thought process will never work in this business hence why so people hate MLMs b/c they never got to the thought process that will make them money.  How much profit did Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos of Amazon make their first 7 yrs of business…Zero. Because they are not investing in the now they are investing for their future. If they thought oh my gosh I am losing a lot of money now why am I doing this? This is not working. They would have never seen then millions they are making now. It is business owner mentality…you have to develop it. I did not have it when I got into Quixtar I learned it. Everything that I have been raised on told me everything I was doing  in Quixtar is wrong. And that same thought process has gotten me to an 8x8 cubicle making $35,000, miserable, highly in debt, and bored where I have to kill time by talking to random people. And yes I went to 6yrs of college to learn how to do it. J In a couple of yrs I will never have to deal with it again. Thank you Lord!! Have you ever thought about the 40 yr plan… it is long…I did not want to find out how Quixtar/Amway wouldn’t work I found ever reason I could to find out how it would work…b/c the alternative is 40 MORE YRS OF THIS!! Sorry. I was just curious if you ever had that go threw your mind. Probably not that is why you have so much negative to say about Quixtar. No worries I prey you find a way to get out of the 40 YEAR plan. I would never wish that on any one. I re read your last sentence …a few like me…you know what is so cool is that I have found a lot just like me and the few that aren’t like me I get to give them self worth and confidence to be like me and my up line…your missing the duplication part of it. I was not a business owner before Quixtar I learned and that is what all of my guys are learning. Now I do agree with the it takes a certain person to do this…that person must be willing to learn and listen and read books by millionaires from way back in the day. If they aren’t teachable they will never make it…and now all they want to do criticize and play the poor pitiful me card like so many American do in this day and age. It is sad. I am not criticizing you I have heard some stories that made me want to quit or see this as a scam. I just again went back to the alternative 40yrs!! :0 The feeling of regret would be so much more painful than changing my thought process and becoming free. WOW!! I have way to much time on my hands. J

BWW supposedly once wanted to put in a system that'd generate that.

http://www.amwaywiki.com/images/8/84/Skaggs_vs_britt_et_al.pdf

A girl I know, who I thought was somewhat intelligent asked me to go to this "business" meeting with her last week. I got there and she had to pay them $10 to get in for some reason and I got in free. The way she explained it to me before we had gotten there mad it seem like she wasn't exactly sure what she had gotten herself into. The meeting started and Joe Markiewicz was our guest speaker. He had been kind enough to take the time to get away from his million club meeting he had going on to talk to us.  He basically spent over an hour telling us about his story, showing us his wife, talking about how rich he is and then attempting to explain the system, which basically mad very little sense drawn all over the board. He did mention Amway briefly and I knew I had heard that name before when I was in school. Everyone there also didn't want to answer all the questions I had and didn't seem really excited when I told them I work in finance.  I went home and have been researching Quixtar and came across your website along with several others. I really appreciate the info and it helped to confirm everything I though it was based on the little info they were willing to provide me with the other night.  I have scanned the literature the let me "borrow" incase you would like to post it up on your website. They also gave me a dvd that i haven't watched and some cd's that I'm not going to listen to. Thanks

Mr. Larsen,
 
I don't know what your motivation is but the information your provided in your website is totally and miserably wrong.
 
You have no clue about what a Network Marketing really is.
 
If the reader is an educated person and think just a little bit, he/she will not believe what you provided.
 
Subom Rhee

Hi Scott,
 

For myself, I do believe we have all been trying to accomplish some of the same things.   To your credit, you saw early on that the corruption started right at the top.   Your failure was that you didn't recognize that there really were decent people at high levels who wanted to do the right thing; you lumped everyone in the same "nasty" category.
 
For us (I can only speak for myself and my husband), we naively believed for far too long that Quixtar was a "benevolent" company that offered ordinary people a chance to achieve financial success.  And that once Orrin had enough influence within the corporation, prices would be brought in line and the compensation plan would be remedied so that people really could make money from Quixtar.
 
How wrong we were.  And we feel like big-time idiots.  I am horrified that the very company we defended to everyone turned out to be so evil.  I am aghast at the levels the company goons will stoop to intimidate and harrass the very people who brought them literally millions and millions of dollars of profits.

I can understand your frustration at the apparent flip-flop of some Team people. Try to remember that back then you were in fact attacking Orrin and everything he stood for.   There were a lot of us who read some of the ways you took mis-statements out of context. (Yes they should have been edited out of tapes--I still scream about that.)   And now, any enemy of Amway is our friend.

As for helping to offset some of your legal costs, at some point maybe I can help. But right now, we personally are into about $35,000 in legal fees trying to defend ourselves against billionaires who just want to grind us down to nothing.  In addition to destroying all of our income, just because we had the nerve to be sponsored into the wrong group.  And if history is any predictor of the future, my bets are that the big QSSR is not going to let up anytime soon.
 
SS

Good Afternoon Sir,
 
I was wondering if you were going to eventually separate the two corporations that your website headlines(Quixtar/Amway)?
 
Supposedly, they will be separate until 2009, at which point they will merge and become one entity.
 
Your figures for the bonuses are out of date because as of Oct 07 Quixtar has dumped a significant amount of money into the bonus pool.
 
Specifically, if you hold 7500 PV/mo. for an entire year, Q12, there is a bonus of $20,000.  There is also a way to bypass the 12 out of 12 rule by reaching a certain volume throughout the course of the year, even though you missed a month or two of 7500 PV/mo., making you still eligible for the bonus.
 
There are several educational "support" teams out there, but LTD led by Larry Winters has been the most successful.  This all according to my upline and mentor, but a man who I respect immensely, so I don't doubt him.
 
The use of the word "Pyramid" doesn't make any sense and your use of it is probably my only complaint.  Generally speaking everyone in every job or organization is part of a Pyramid.  I saw Pyramid used a couple of times in front of the word scheme and that merely makes it sound even more deceptive.
 
I honestly think that you have done a great job...putting together a lot of information and presenting it to the public for their benefit.  It just seems irrationally slanted at times, which can be pointed to as reason not to put any stock into its' validity.
 
The tool "kickbacks" were not a secret when I got into the business.   It was actually presented frankly, although I will have to do a little research as to the actual percentages because your 80% statement is a little thought provoking.   Either way, it still only makes sense that the people with the largest groups, ie the most influence/value, receive the largest portion of profits from those tool flows.
 
I have to wrap this up, but would like to mention that at every step it has been recommended that I develop retail customers, which I have done with some ease due to the assistance of my mentors.  The actual markup on products from companies within the Access Business Group(ABG) is 40%, which all goes to the retailing IBO.
 
The rest of your websites information will have to wait until tomorrow, but I would like for you to reply and I plan on emailing again after I peruse your site further.
 
Sincerely,
Educated IBO
 
P.S.  My wife and I have been a part of the business team for only about 4 months.

I know that the communications  I have been reading on various websites are now quite old but I guess the type of people that get involved with this activity won’t have changed much and will still be very defensive of the “organisation”.

 I was approached only this week by an ex-work colleague turned friend,  who called to present me with a “business” opportunity.           I listened to him over a beer on Sunday afternoon and then went to an evening seminar last night. I couldn’t get rid of the feeling that something wasn’t quite right. There was a there was a “cloud” in front of me that was preventing me seeing what everybody was so supposedly fired up and excited about. I think the cloud, in real terms, was tangibly made up of a mixture of suspicion and sceptisism.  

 In the seminar I saw more pictures of enticements such Tahiti and Porches than any product supposedly providing the basis for inclusion in such a set up, not that I wouldn’t mind the former in preference to ever having to deal with the latter (I’m human if nothing else!).

 This morning I decided to resort to the internet for more enlightenment. What do I find – a lot of people arguing (including yourself) against this set up using what I would describe as acceptable and constructive dialogue. On the other side of the table – the ardent supporters and defenders of this organisation using varying degrees of abuse, profanity and downright filthy gutter dialogue in attempt to push their beliefs home and, in my view, failing miserably due to limited vocabulary and articulation.

 My brief encounter has led me to conclude that, between my “cloud” and a cross section of the type of people that appear to manage to find a place in this arrangement (maybe due to the thickness of the rose tinted glasses they wear) these are not the sort of people that I want exposure to or indeed ever call “work” colleagues.

 I will apologise to my friend, who I believe has his heart in the right place, but nevertheless is seeing something I can’t see and I’m not prepared to chance my arm finding it.

 I will say – thanks – but no thanks. That is unless the cloud clears and I see something for myself, and not as the result of being brow beaten into dispersing the cloud.

 Regards,

 Denis

Hi Scott my name is Marcela. How are you?  I'm wrtting to ask you if you see any end to this "evil" company any time soon.  I agree with you 100% on what you say about Quixtar/Amway.  I'm living it right now.  My husband is involved in the so called business and has invested thousands of dollars and has seen nothing.  He refuses to stop because he is so blinded by his upline, they have him so brain washed and under their control.  According to him the rest of us who are not involved are the blind ones, we live in a false world, and we are the ones brainwashed by society.  I don't understand how his so called upline can sleep at night knowing that what they are telling him is ruining our marriage and the life of our daughter, because they do know how I feel about his involvement.  They have him convinced that its more important to spend ~$400 on crap (excuse my language) that he does not need rather than providing for his child. He refuses to listen to any info. I find against the "business" Please give me advice on how to get him to quit.  I need help.  Thank you Marcela

Hi Scott,

I'm a former IBO, I don't want to be named.  I still have downline in the cult and Amway/Quixtar is getting ready to release this new product.:
Perfect Water, www.drinkperfectwater.com

I've listened to some of the messages coming down from the WWDB leadership and it makes me sick. They want people to buy tons of this stuff and it is not inexpensive - $1.99/bottle retail in cases of 24.  In fact its been on the market in the past for less money.   I guess they changed the "formulation" for Amway, but  who knows?    I asked the opinion of a water expert and he said it was snake oil.   Here's his response:

Thank you for your note.  Your suspicion is well-founded; their absurd claims seem to be borrowed mainly from the "clustered water" hucksters (http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html.) I now have it listed at http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html.  

I'm hoping you'll get the word out on this.  Amway/WWDB is acting like this is the second coming.  The demos they suggest are ridiculous, not scientific and almost comical to me.  But in a group setting, the group psychology takes hold and people throw their critical thinking skills out the window.  For instance, on the drinkperfectwater site, they say that your body instantly knows that it has extra oxygen before your it gets to your muscles and so you can instantly feel the difference.   That is absolutely ridiculous and makes no sense to the objective observer.   It is simply the placebo effect at work.  The water expert info I sent you does a really good breakdown of the facts but it is kind of convoluted and hard to read.   Simply said, we are not fish and we do not get our oxygen by drinking it, only by breathing it.

Anyway, there are probably a lot of people that are going to be taken in by this once again lining the pockets of the diamonds who are left and who are trying  to keep their businesses together.  I hope you will get the word out.  I believe it is available for advanced order this coming week.

Please don't use my information -  I'm not ready yet to come out of the closet.

Thanks,
N

You can add Brian and Deidre Herosian to the list of divorces.   They have been separated since before Christmas and it doesn't look good from what I hear.  So you can add another EDC to the list.

Tim Leets (I believe was a diamond with INA or Global net)  Is now working for Randy Jaramillo at HotHand.com.

This e-mail is in response to your "informative" website.   All I would like to ask is why don't you have any info on there about the profitability of the Amway/Quixtar products.  I make 500-600 a month just selling products, and so do most of the members of my team.  My total profit last month was close to 2000 dollars.  Get some more information before posting stuff like on your site.  You are generalizing a supplier with a support system.  There are 23 different systems that support the quixtar/amway supplier.  It seems that you are generalizing that all systems are the same, in that they make most of their money from the tools.  I make no money from the tools yet and I am quite profitable, so are the majority of my downline.  I am also with the understanding that those who produce the tools should profit.  You are generalizing that all systems are the same.  Do some more research please.  Ask me any questions you like.  Thank you.

Tristan

Hi Tristan,

Congratulations on your success.   Sounds like you are doing the biz the right way.  It is rare to find someone who makes so much just selling.

Write me a letter about your experiences selling products and I will post it on my site.  What products do people like?  Do they pay retail.   do you deliver or do they order direct.   I will not post your name if you do not want it posted.

Scott

I am successful and my team is absolutley cooking because I am follwing an awesome team.  I'm not just selling though.  I build my network using the system put in place, generate new customers by sampling products(they really sell themselves). And stay consistant.  The tools are instrumental in my success.  Most people just quit too early, they haven't been at it long enough to figure it out.  I have been an IBO for 14months.  I am going silver this month.  And most of my team is profitable from doing what I've done.  I must agree with you that people build this buisness improperly and there are some shady systems out there.  But either finger them or don't say anything.  Because that puts IBOs like me at a disadvantage when I show them the plan and our system( which costs money), and they look at a site like yours and generalize me and my team with the others out there.

found your website and find it very intriguing.

Ive always been enthralled by the Amway phenomenon, and involvement as a distributor also dots my history.

I noticed that most of your, and people in general's criticism involved deception, and a select few making it to the top and succeeding at very high levels.  In my opinion, if this was the case (and I don't think it really is, personally seeing success at many different levels, not only financially but other aspects of life), there are many other parallels in life in general with the system.

For example,

NCAA div 1 Football (college football), probably the biggest "pyramid scheme" there is.  There are all of these elite football players trying to make it to the next level (the NFL) where the very big bucks are.  In the process, the system (the NCAA and the institution where they play and go to school at) is milking each and every athlete for mucho dinero (much money) at the expense of the athletes time, and sometimes health (injuries, sometimes even life lasting).  The NCAA and the school in the process rakes in much money without the payment to the athletes (as it is illegal and violates NCAA rules, although many athletes get paid behind closed doors according to my personal experience).  In turn, the majority of college football players never make it to the League.  Sure they get degrees sometimes, but a lot of times these degrees are worthless. 
 
Amway has a great system and people learn a lot from it.  Life lessons, business lessons, etc...  Yea there are instances where deception occurs, but its a people business and we all are human and make mistakes.

“IBOs love to claim that they are not being controlled by anyone else. It is common practice when recruiting new people to the business to point out the risks of being fired when one is an employee of a company.”

Downsized, let go, pink slipped, laid off are all true terms which with replaceing that word fired which can’t happen to IBOs. Do you represent another MLM company or anything or is there a reason you are particular biased?

If I started my own true independent company and choose to break trade laws, start a illegal pyramid or break rules from the FTC or international law then I would lose a lot of money or put in jail and my company would be shut down. Being controlled by anyone else? society has rules laws, trade laws way you can and can’t do things by your definition every man women or child in this country are already being controlled whether there an IBO or not. As an employee I am told when to work, how long. When I can or can’t take a week to go visit my family, also told where I need to live. When I can take a break or not or when to pee. Job is very specific and rules don’t have to be as long as a list because you have very small boundaries or options on how you can or can’t do your job. And if you don’t break any rules you can still be let go, given the pink slip, downsized, O I’m sorry we don’t want to pay you anymore.

If an IBO breaks a law or does something indecent as a person then they should be fired. It’s less then what would have happened to them if they broke a law with their own company. As time passed the FTC and due to other things has caused the rule book for Amway/Quixtar to get bigger and there is so much to take into consideration.

While some rules I’ve found to be more then nessasary for the most part any MLM all have rules and some constraints. If you don’t break any laws or don’t do anything stupid or are a decent person and honest then no you won’t get fired. Be aware of some of the rules and then anything else under the sun your free to do.

If you don’t agree with that aside from Society and law and FTC or other trade laws or government or stupidity or things as a good person I don’t want to represent, I am not being controlled by anyone else where employees are then as an not controlled person the next person you meet on your next walk who pisses you off kill them or rob their house and see if society is controlling you.