Scott,

I Just want to thank you for creating your website...It was very informative! I was almost conned into the false dreams of financial freedom promised by Quixtar by a friend of mine. What a great simple business plan ... and I can make millions ? Wow !  Sounds like Amway ... haha ...  

Anyways do you have any secrets for breaking friends out of the cult ?  Well without  sounding like a non believer in my friends  dream to make millions ?  Also Is there anyway I can help spread the word about the evil that is Quixtar ?

Thanks again .. for saving me from a big mistake :)

-Lane 
Sacramento, CA     

I am IBO of Quixtar.com/ I have talk to at least 300 people about my business and the my products on my website, but they are not convinced that they are getting a better deal with me verses BJ's and Sams Club. How do I get my business to grow for me. People that I talk to about my products are saying that once shipping and handling falls into to place that the products are too expensive other warehouse clubs.

Dear Mr. Larsen,

I am trying to dissuade a close friend from participating in Quixtar/Amway business. As I was searching the Internet I ran into your site, and was absolutely impressed by the depth and breadth of your coverage. I plan to forward your links to my friend to encourage him to take a closer look at what he has got himself into.

The only thing that is missing for me is a little info on you. I think it would add credibility to your site if people knew a little bit about you and what motivated you to devote so much time and effort to researching Quixtar/Amway and other pyramids. If it is there and I missed it, please point me to the right page. If such info is not available on-line, could you please drop me a few words about your background as related to Quixtar/Amway and what made you so passionate about exposing this fraudulent practices to others.

Thanks so very much for your efforts! I truly believe that you are helping thousands to open their eyes and make a right decision to stay away from this shady business.

Sincerely,

Marina

Hey Scott, I love your website, it has helpe my wife and I out a lot.  One of my friends I work with has been trying to get my wife and I to join them in their little Quixtar rally for months now, and I was always hesitant before I found your website, but after I did read some of the information you have on there, I was way more than hesitant.  Scared was a better term.  It's like they are obsessed with "their business" and tell everyone all about it.  So thank you again for your help with your website.  Any advice you could give me to help me try and convince my friend that his wife and he are going to get screwed would be greatly appreciated. 

Anyways, the reason for my e-mail was actually to inform you of a little tid bit that I think you would be interested in.  Before I found your web site, my parents told me that Quixtar and Amway were the same thing, etc.  I went to Amway.com and clicked on a link that says, "become an Amway Distributor."  You click on that, and guess what, it redirects you to Quixtar.com!  For all those people out there telling me and a lot of others that Quixtar and Amway aren't the same company, but rather sister companies, tell them to think again and check that website out.  Anyways, thanks again man, I hope the information was useful. 

Sincerely,

Trevor

My coworker introduced me to great business that he ran into a guy in the mall. Quixtar IBO try to recruit new members. I was fascinated and went to their meeting. I admit speaker was very good of what he is trying to convey to audiences. He introduced himself as Dr Hari XXXXX. He did inspire a lot of invitees including myself. For one point that makes me interest in was bypassing distribution line and get products directly with 32% saving. After meeting, my coworker's sponsor ask me if he can come to my house to talk further about business. I said yes. Also, my coworker got information from his sponsor that his upline is making killing money $5000/month.

I went home and did a lot of research on Internet about Quixtar. Couple of days later, they (husband and wife) showed up at my door. I told them I wasn't impressed of the products and prices Quixtar offered. I have 3 young kids and two were still in diaper. I knew a lot of friends in same boat as I did. I would be able to introduce my friends to buy through Quixtar and save a lot of money (32% is huge saving).  Considering I spend almost $100 for diaper and baby products per month.

I google to find out positive comments about Quixtar and IBO but I ended up more negative comments. I decided to look at number. After comparing Suggested Retail price (Markup???), IBO cost and Retail Saving percentage from Quixtar product List, I found out Retail Saving Percentage of all products in the list are incorrect. The difference is 5-10%. My upline told me Quixtar has millions of products. There are only 66 pages in Product Price List and each page list around 100
products. Total is 6600 products. This number is not even close to half million.

Speaker from first meeting, Dr Hari ??? (is he really Dr???) told audience about 32% saving. I did my own shopping at WalMart and do the calculation if I buy it from Quixtar. By using their incorrect Retail Saving percentage, average is 15-20% not 32% as speaker claims. Also, total spending on Quixtar will be much higher than what I paid at WalMart. Look further in product Price List, what you spend is not what you earn for your BV. Difference is 5%. I spend $100 on Quixtar, I
only get $95 BV. Dr Hari ??? didn't disclose that. He is talk about spending $250 and get 100 PV and 250 BV. Calculating from Product Price List, I only get $2.80 BV to get 1 PV. In order to get 100 PV, I need to spend $294 to get $280 BV. My performance bonus of 100 PV will be 3%. This will give me 3% x $280 BV = $8.40 check from Quixtar. Guess what, how much I had to pay for shipping, $15.95 if I spend $294. Where do I save money when shipping charge is higher than bonus check? Even if I calculate 20% saving from Retail price ( generous number for Quixtar), I save around $30 dollar. If I shop at WalMart, instead I pay
$294, I only pay $250 or less. How do I save? Any person on earth can see it clearly.

Talk to my upline, he said you have to recruit more people downline and they recruit people under them and then you can make money. I went back to my basic math again. If I have 10 people under me and those 10 people each one have 10 under them, total I have 110 people under me. I  assume each one of them spend $294 each month to get 3% bonus. Total money spending is $32634 and I earn $31,080 BV and 11000 PV. Wow, now I am qualified as Platinum 7500 PV or above and earn 25% bonus. I will earn $31,080 BV x 25% = $7770. However, my downline bonus check will be deducted from my bonus check. 100 people on bottom food chain earn 100PV will get $8.40. Total is $840. 10 people below me earn 1100PV and $3080. They will get 12% bonus and will get $3080 X 12% = $369.60.  Total will be $3696. Total of my downline received is $3696 + $840 = $4536. Deduct from my bonus check $7770 - $4536, I only get $3234. I
am platinum and work very hard (not as speaker claim that only need 10-15 hours a week) and do all lies (what speaker and my upline claim this business is family base so honest and integrity is very important) to earn ONLY $3234. THIS IS BIG SCAM BUSINESS IN ORDER FOR UPLINE TO MAKE BIG MONEY.

I did one more research about their product quality as my upline told me Quixtar products has much better quality than other existing products out of market. Goggle it and found nothing about their products except their websites. Finally, I found from Consumer Reports magazines on 8/03, 8/04 and 10/05. The magazine listed around 20-30 detergents products and the testing results. SA-8 (Quixtar products) listed in the middle of the pack and Tide is top of the list in all 3 magazine
subscriptions. In their book, 'Price is Right', author was mentioning about 3 important things to consider buying products, quality, price and convenience. First, their quality is average (based on detergent products, SA-8 and I couldn't find anything about their other exclusive products, energy drinks and Artistry health and beauty). Second, their price (IBO cost) is way too high comparing to WalMart (my upline always said we cannot compare to WalMart price because we have much better quality, NOT TRUE). Lastly, convenience as author mentioned why we paid more money for same products at convenience store than WalMart cause we
can get it anytime. But I cannot get their products at any time at all.  If I am willing to pay FedEx shipping charge, I can get it next day, not right away.

I hope my analysis will help someone considering IBO from Quixtar business. If you are ever wanting to venture into it, go directly to www.quixtar.com and sign up as yourself without sponsoring and uncheck anything that you don't want. Cost is only $51.50 for membership not like my upline did it so quick and it turns out to be above $200. I think IBOA ripped members off big time. If you look at what they charge you when you sign up as IBO through Quixtar, you will see IBOA
insurance, IBOA support and service charge. What do they support us when we become IBO? NOTHING except buy more CDs, books, meetings, rally
from them. What insurance do we get from them if somebody downline decide to take action against our words? NOTHING... And what the hell is service charge? What cost them to do application online????

In my goodwill, I hope no one will get excite into this business and trap himself/herself into this cult. I will try to send warning email  to my friends and hope that they will send email to their friends. Like Asian hermit said, use your enemies tatics to fight against him. I am going to use their duplicate method through email to fight against their SCAM for all UPLINE to sucks blood out of hard-working people like us.

Rumor has it that Henry and Sue Skaggs, big pins in the Paul Miller organization have entered into a Lawsuit reguarding tool money. The interesting thing is that i also understand that the attorney representing Skaggs is no other than Diamond Steve Ridley. Ridley is a former Attorney  from the new Orleans area. Skaggs is from Columbus GA, and is under Diamond Rocky Covington who is under Paul Miller, both from North Carolina. Not sure where the lawsuit has been filed.

Wondering if you know of any of this!

thanks,

Wow! I have been looking at your site for about 10 minutes and I am seeing the light. I have a good friend who wants me to join, and is in fact talking to several other friends of mine. I have been very suspect from the start, but have been putting my trust into him. After the brief few minutes of looking at your site, I have a lot of questions.  I knew something was not right after I went to a house meeting and listened to tapes and just got angry after listening. About 4 hours of my time, and all was getting was a pep talk - and no information as to how I am going to make money. Thank you for this site, I will keep reading. If you have any suggestions as to what I should ask, please let me know because they are wanting my $250 tom. (Although I'm sure its in your website.) Think of me when I show this to my friend, I think it may break his heart, but I guess thats better than his wallet!  Thanks again,  Sincerely, Brian

Mr. Larsen

I recently recieve a call from a very good friend of mine who was currently in a meeting with a marketing manager from Quixtar. My friend asked if I would be interested in meeting with the guy. I asked him for a bit more information, i.e. what is the company exactly, what will WE be doing for the company, etc. I recieved a vague response of "Some kind of internet thing, I cant really explain it." Then, the phone was handed off to "Clint, the marketing manager". I asked the
same questions, and instead of outright answers, I recieved a bunch of beat around th bush answers, mostly being well, I'll fill you in during
the meeting. I really cant say I could trust this guy at all, so I did a little research. I am glad I did. After reading about the scams and pyramid schemes this company has been involved in, it sounded like bad news from the beginning. I then found and read your site, and really am appalled at the things they have going on behind the scenes. I still plan on going to the meeting (or is it a preliminay brainwashing?) I have set up with CLint on Friday, but only for buisness ethicality reasons. I do have a question, and that is, Should I polietly decline this "great operrertunity" or should I, using information found on these sites I have seen, totally tear apart this
guys advances? Following that question, if showing Clint the facts I found is to my better interests, would I be able to use information from your site, properly cited of course.

Thank you very much for your time,
Jason.

It's good to know that idiocy, lunacy and melodramatic bitterness are alive and well....as demonstrated by your stupid website blog. And I use stupid in the very real sense of "intentional ignorance".

After all, I'm going to need broke idiots like you and your supporters to clean the many toilets in my multiple houses soon. That's all your diatribe is obviously worth. Excellent training to be a life-long loser.

While I am not yet at the diamond level, for the past many years my family has been kept afloat by the extra income stream from our Quixtar business (and yes, we are proudly affiliated with WWDB); we have never been slighted, pushed aside, fired, nor told to 'go away' by those we have serviced and helped to build their own businesses....unlike the myriad employers that have fired me due to my illnesses over the past several years. If not for Quixtar, we would have been forced out into the street.

Of course, a cold-hearted bastard like yourself would not care about things like that. You are obviously interested only with scattering your vitriolic poison to those who are gullible enough to want to imbibe only negatives and detractions. 

I defy you to describe ANY business that pays back as fully as Quixtar....for the time input. ANY self-employed person will tell you that it takes GOBS of time to build ANY business.....and sacrifices are a part of that. Losers always decry the sacrifices necessary to make strides and achievements in life....as they sit snugly ensconced in their ambition chairs reposing in front of the TV screen, watching "reality shows" because they have no significant lives of their own. 

I especially like the part where you talk about $150K being a low salary, one to be made fun of.....despite the FACT that it is over 5 times the average income for Americans....that it is also true that the World Wide Dream Builders diamonds have NEVER made that little......

But as you so blithely quoted...."Facts don't count"....especially to an embittered jackass such as yourself.

You have amply demonstrated the historical reason why there has never been a monument raised to a critic.

Good luck with your broke, loser life. I pray you reap the  rewards of your killing people's dreams thusly.

KAD

Hi KAD,

Thanks for your note.  It will make a nice addition to my feedback site. 

Have you ever polled your downline to see if they make a net profit overall?  I bet you have helped more people to lose money than to make money.  Only a cold hearted bastard will make money on the backs of the gullible.

Quixtar only pays back because their prices are so high to start with.   Find enough gullible people willing to overpay for products and you can make your residuals work out too.

Scott

And only an asshole would make assumptive remarks based on ZERO information.

I am one of those who actually HELPS my downline.....I am sure not everyone does.

With betting odds like you're dealing with, you oughta go to Vegas.....they're always looking for an idiot sucker like you. And yes, I agree....only a cold-hearted bastard WOULD make money "on the backs of the gullible"...kinda like the government, state lottery organizers....and lying losers like you. I'll bet you get lots of loser types that "donate" to your lies and innuendo....accusations without proof: always the hallmark of the tiny brained loser.

And like I accused you of originally.....you don't care. Handicapped, disabled....none of that matters to you, who are only attempting to promulgate your bathroom wall poison.

So what made you so bitter, anyhow? Have a bad upline 30 years ago?

Yoy might want to read some of the works of the like of Kiyosaki....specifically both "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and the "Cash Flow Quadrant". Job folks like you, ALWAYS revert back to the old grovel and slave mentality of the brainless employee....demanding their "rights" and not wanting to put in the effort.   Go join a union. You'll fit right in.  OR,  why don't you get the TRUTH....and make something of yourself and others as well.  Your wife might even start to believe you're worth something again......

Or keep on buying your junk at Wall-Mart.....someday you too will be greeting people there.

TTFN

Dear Scott,

 My wife and was I just recently introduced to Network 21 through my Sister in-law (Her Older Sister). For me this is my third encounter with them. My wife is fired up about this but I truly believe that there is no easy way to reach success. It seems that the hard work is always sugarcoated by the perception of future (passive) income. Fortunately I am in the internet business and have the opportunity to research the topic.

 I went through your website and have downloaded “Merchants of Deception”  (And have read the entire book…just finished it this morning) I am still going through the website to seek information on Jim & Nancy Dornan. The book itself only mention this name once and only mentioned in passing that the Dornans and the Yagers do not get along (To put it mildly). Is there any websites you can recommend that details network 21 and its founders.

 I need more info on this to decide weather we want to continue or not. By the way we live in Indonesia. If there are any relevant issues here in Indonesia I would really like to know.

 Alwi

Scott, I recently came upon your website and am hoping you can send more info on the Storms/Covino investment story.  I know it is old news, but I was in the Storms/Covino/Dalakian (Emerald) LOS in the late 90's through approx 2002.  I was Platinum based on retail sales but did not have enough group to sustain anything and now I renew only to get the Achieve magazine and see who is doing what. 

As Platinum, I started to get a glimpse of the behind the scenes action and have been to Storms island, the Covino estate in Colts Neck, NJ, Covino's yacht in NJ and so on.  I must admit I was a believer and still to this day consider the actual Amway/Quixtar business itself to be quite a powerful and logical model.  Of course, the whole scam of the "system" eventually started to become evident and we slowly faded away and gave up the "dream."  As the link on your site explains, it is indeed very much like the Mafia with legitimate businesses linked with not so legit businesses and blurred lines in between. It's a shame Devos/VanAndel had to buckle to Dex & co so many years ago. The final straw for me was the sudden and unexplained defection of Covino group from Storms organization to Victor organization, who I guess is technically the upline somehow under Dexter.  We got a typically murky "it's a need to know business" answer from upline and only now have I learned what happened.  Please let me know if you have more info from back then or any updates.  Thanks.

Hello Scott

 Martha and I were diamonds in Houston; we are no longer active and haven’t been for years.  I co-founded an industrial fuel additives manufacturing business back in 1999 and have been financially blessed beyond imagination. 

 Much of my success is due to the education program associated with the Amway business, it instilled thinking big and no limit goals, so that is most certainly a positive.  It was intuitively obvious that manufacturing something that is used 24/7 and then more product is ordered when it runs out, was a healthy business plan, all I had to do is look at Rich and Jay, so off I went.

 Caveat Emptor was the main lesson to be learned for me anyway, specifically the tools/tapes business.

 Kind regards, 

Mark Hughes

Hello Scott,
I just stumbled across your site today and am blown away at how well you present your information and arguments. I am a 23 yr. old in Bc, Canada and
was approached by the Quixtar organization little under a year ago by an old hockey buddy. After being shown the plan and attending one of the raw-raw
events I was still scheptical but curious and signed up as an IPO. For a few months I attempted in vein to obtain a clear understanding of the
compensation package and of the credibility of the actual opportunity of the plan. The numbers are confusing and I was starting to assume that that was
not a coincidence. I scavenged the internet in an attempt to do my due diligence on the company, for I would not show a single plan, especially to
friends, until I myself could understand what I was selling. This is where I stumbled accross the ebook merchants of deception, which i read the 300
pages of in about 3 days, unable to stop. Much of what i read described the distributor, who i have known for some time, and my experience so far with
Quixtar.
Anyways, I mentioned the ebook to my friend and suggested he read it and try to see what was really being said, though i knew he would discount it.
But my real reason for showing it to him was that i thought i might finally get some answers from him or from his upline diamond. I have met teh
diamond personally twice now, and the second time was after i gave the ebook to my distributor friend. The diamond told me something to the effect that
all the garbage on the net was not credible, and, here is the kicker, that it is all a form of corporate warfare being waged by large companies like
walmart that are losing large market share to organizations such as Quixtar.  I had no rebuttle to this but it was quite clear to him that I was still
unconvinced. I asked him about a large portion of his income coming from tools but did not get a direct answer. He gave me his # and said that we
could set up a meeting where he would go over the financials of his business with me in detail. He is from my hometown, but will be in Vancouver this
weekend where i currently live to give a talk. When i do set up teh meeting I am not totally sure what to ask and know it is likely i will be deceived,
but still hope it will be somewhat insightful.

I am wondering if there is any credibility whatsoever to this Diamond's claims that Mercahnts of Deception is a form of Corporate Warfare financed
by large corporations such as walmart through financial commitments to Eric Scheibeler, or if it was just another blatant lie by a diamond in order to
discredit a voice of opposition? Any insight you could give me to answering this question would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and a reply would be appreciated even if you cannot answer this
question. Sincerely,
Ryan

Scott,

Just wanted to let you know I thoroughly enjoyed reviewing your website. It was fun to read about your analysis of Amway and negative-sum games. I teach economics part-time and appreciate your research.

Tim

You tout your website as a place for information.   Yes, it has information.  Some true and some false.  But don’t try to ever come across to people as a reliable source for “common sense business analysis”.  You’ve never built this business and have no idea how awesome it really is.

If you really want to have some credibility as a “business analyst”, how about taking off your front page how Quixtar is a cult.   Are you retarded?  That is the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard.   You must be either a very sad or a very angry person.  Make your site informative but learn to have some class.

Uriah

Hi Uriah,

 

Many Cult experts agree Quixtar/Amway is a cult.

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/

Even Amway admited as to why it was so in this internal memo.

http://www.amquix.info/amway_postma_memo.html

I'm sorry if you don't want to face the truth.

Scott

ps.  How much profit are you going to report on your taxes from your biz in 2005?

Over $30,000 and that other website is even worse than your lame website.  

If that is your answer about “cults” then you should actually know what “cult” means.

According to the "Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary"(1971) the term, "cult," originally referred to "worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings...a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies...devotion or homage to a particular person or thing."  More recently, the term has taken on additional connotations:

3 : A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious...

4 : A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator...

Quixtar is a serving company. They manufacture products at Alticor and Quixtar provides relationships with Corporations like Disney, Barnes and Noble and Parts America. Have you even been to the corporate headquarters?  If I want to give someone the chance to create an additional income, what business would you suggest I offer them?  I am a business owner, do you think I am a cult leader?

Are you aware that major corporations are not idiots? Why do you think they continue to work with us? If you were me, would you listen to you or them?

Have you been to thisbiz.com? Do you know John Maxwell?

My main question is… who is paying you to smear Quixtar’s name?  

Uriah

Hey,

First off, I love your site.

I have never been, nor will ever be an Amway/Quixtar robot. I have been approached once.

Even went to her house. Thought we'd have coffee together and chat.

Instead, she started asking me to invite all my friends to her house for a make-up demonstration.

She said it was Quixtar, the best thing since sliced bread.

I really thought she was a nice person so I asked her (her daughter & my son were friends) to meet me the next day at a local coffeehouse where we could just chat and hang out, you know like regular people do.

I took oodles of her catalogs (at her insistence) but told her I really wasn't interested. Told her I liked a different brand of make-up  that I had used for years. She went on and on and on about this online shopping mall where you could get everything at super cheap prices. Gave me some sort of number to log on to the site.

Jeez, why would I shop at a mall so secret you need a password to look at their stuff. I did check out the prices, for kicks.

Those folks need to take a basic math class and then some in-depth therapy.

Well, needless to say I never heard from her again.

I really get a hoot from all the angry AMWAY people that write you.

You'd think at the very least they'd use their spell check.

Anyhow, keep up the entertaining work.

Sincerely,

Greta

This is the biggest bunch of lies I have every heard. You people obviously have nothing better to do and certainly have no idea how to do proper research. Find something better do to with your life!!

Dissapointed!

Dear Scott:

As a former Amway distributor who got out long before I put any real money into it,  I am always leary of others who come to me with business opportunities.  My Nephew asked me many times to come with him for a new business venture he was in called quixtar.  The meetings were a carbon copy of the Amway ones of years ago with the exagerated claims of wealth.  I had not heard of Quixtar and I did not become a distributor, but since my nephew was so destitue after his bankrupcy, I became a member to buy under his account. In their meeting, there was no mention of Quixtar and my question of how this reminds me of Amway was answered that it is not Amway.  Once we started to go to the website for buying, it was Quixtar.  I was leary then again as I never had heard of Quixtar.  My research brought up your webiste and of course the Dateline investigatrion into Quixtar.  Quixtar is their latest method of disquising the negative stigma of Amway.  Here again I was defrauded out of the $20 joinup fee and bought several overly priced food items.  I can't believe it.  We need to get the word out there about the Quixtar.  But, once negative about the Quxtar is out there, they will change the name again.

I am so furious that this fraud is being perpetrated on the public.  I want to work to get the word out about this and am emailing a warning letter to everyone I know with web shortcuts to you and many others.  But more has to be done to get the word out about the Quixar.  I live in the West Michigan area and of course DeVos and Van Andel rule Grand Rapids and the surounding areas.  I worry that Dick DeVos will get the Republican nomination for our Govenor.  I have been a loyal Republican for many years, yet I do not want that man rewarded for allowing the deceipt and fraud that has been the Amway distributor tradition for decades.

Thanks for your work to stop this.

Sincerely,

Neil

Scott,

I found your site interesting.

I didn't have a big enough pin to be investing, good thing!

I am a former down-line of the Grants. While I know very little  about what happened, and wish no one any ill will, I have a thing or two to say about the Quixtar company and the way all this was handled. We were only 3 down from the Grants and in a small but growing line. We heard about the Grant suspension third hand! The company has never, to this day, even sent so much as a form letter telling us about the loss of our up-line. We were never given new leadership or even the time of day.

The company left us hang out to dry. I had thousands of dollars in bills spent building the way I was told to build. My up line had 3-4 times that amount. We borrowed against our retirement to pay it off. It's a relief now that the debt is gone.

I tried contacting them for an explanation and asked for direction. No one responded. The companies promises and game face are hollow and cruel. I feel betrayed and wish I could get my money back. (tried that track - Quixtar has it all locked up)

Anyway, Thanks for letting me vent. I'll never be fooled again!

Dear Scott:

Bravo to you on your January 21, 2006 post on re-vamping the Quixtar business.  It makes so much more sense (and profit) if it were that way.  Maybe they'll use it if they will put their foot down and stop the tools abuses.  If not, maybe another reputable network marketing company will use your idea.  Great Job!

Sincerely

Augustus

Candace

Thanks for all your hard work in putting this site together.  We joined Quixtar are whatever.  We bought in for $200+ went to the major $150 bought a whole bunch of "system tools" $500 and then I found your website.  I felt like I had been kicked in the guts and felt depressed and betrayed.  But the you know what?  We quit listen to the cd's and I felt like the brainwashing stopped and we snapped out of it and began to see what had really happened.  We had been deceived into joining and then brainwashed by system.  Then we began to wake up and realize what had happened to us.  One of the kicker was that when we were shown the "plan" when we or anyone asked if it was amway we're trained to say "have you hear of Robert Kyosaki's cash flow quadrant? (btw a good book though).  That is deception right there.  I'm glad we woke up when we did as $1000 is cheap lesson and not much of a loss for a "failed business" Oh another kicker was at the major we went to their new idea was dot 1 program.  Basically you create an order and it keeps coming EVERY month, whether you need it or not.  We learned alot from this failed business and having one business now we want to create more.  Nothing wrong with a dream but you cannot use it to push aside reality

Thanks

Jeff

Hi Scott.

    I used to be an Amway distributor in the late '70s, when VCRs were the freshest thing and the lastest rage. 

    I travelled to all the rallies in major coliseums, attended meetings where the plan was shown, drew my own circles at my own meetings, kept my calendar full, bought tons of books and tapes, got extremely motivated, learned all the terminology ("plan your work and work your plan" by Bill Brit; the Dexter Yager chant "Freedom!  Five and six nights a week"; "Brain Flushing, not brain washing," Jim Brooks; "Nothing happens until you get excited; you have to have a cause,"  Bob Zeender; "J-O-B, jackass of a boss," Jim Brooks again).  It all comes back when I think about it.  

    It was a sweet-talking Mickey Hamlett dream building tape I heard that basically sold me on Amway.  

    The business never really panned out for me in spite of all my time and effort and money I invested in it. 

    I was in Bob Zeender's downline.  David Goldberger (an Orthodox Jew) was the leg I was in, he was an Emerald.  Well, eventually I dropped out, and eventually the whole Goldberger thing fell apart and became defunct, I forget the reason why, but it happened I found out several years after I left Amway. 

    Alan Tokarski, a confident stare-you-in-the-eye Emerald , a chemist, was under Goldberger.  I remember when he left his job, he had this elaborate letter he wrote to his company about finding the business and he no longer needed his job or a boss and he was now financially independent; eventually his situation didn't work out too, and he ended up going back to chemistry again.

    Then there was Don Wilson or Bob Wilson or some Wilson, a principal in a high school in I believe Westchester County, New York.  I don't know what happened to him, but he was a class act (no pun intended) when drawing circles, but he could be a belligerant hard-ass S-O-B when not in front of an Amway crowd -- he was one of the leaders in the line I was in .

    I remember staying up to all ungodly hours of the morning listening to Diamonds and a who's who cast of characters in lounge areas of hotels after rallies waiting to hear that one "thing" that would do it for me to "make it happen; ain't it great," the spark that would click in me to make me a success in the business.  This was on advice of my upline, and, of course, the Diamonds, Emeralds, etc. Needless to say, I never "got it."  

    I remember after coliseum events, I would go up on stage and look out in the coliseum and visualize myself a success, a Diamond at the very least, giving a motivational speech.  I wanted to see what they saw, get the feel of what it was like and use that as a booster (kick in the ass) to make it happen for me.

    I remember being at a coliseum in Norfork, Virginia, listening to Dexter Yager on the platform saying and emphasing words to the effect that those that don't make it in the business but still hang around are "TRASH."  He elaborated on it and harped on it with such bravado and gusto that only Dexter could pull off.  When I bought the tapes of the rally, that TRASH part of his "motivational speech" was deleted.  I was surprised when he said it, seeing this overgrown midget saying such nasty things like that, yet advocating love, people skills, etc.  But, of course, It didn't make a difference how I felt about his remarks because I was still "broke" which meant everything in those days. 

    What Dexter really needs to do is read his Bible and get the full picture of what people are in God's sight and not pick and choose Bible verses that support his way of thinking and principles of building businesses, and not taking in the overall picture of Christ dying for the sins of mankind and the prophecies in the book of Revelation of things to come (I don't know where you stand on this, Scott.  I still am learning about it.)

     So, out of curiosity, Scott,  not too long ago I typed in "Don Held amway" on Google to see what, if anything, I would find, and he came up on your web site, (I remember one of my favorite tapes was called "Don Held Telephone"). 

    Well, Well, Well, just about everything I experienced in Amway and knew about Amway was on your web site, and of course what I originally searched for.  (I also saw and surfed other web sites dealing with MLM, books about Amway and alike.)  

    I couldn't believe the Amway divorces section you had.  I remember a lot of these people you list.  They were the leaders, the epitome of what I wanted to become.  They had it altogther:  family, God, business, money, success, friends, happiness. 

    I remember Dave (the professional football player) and Lorna Taylor, they were very popular among out circuit.  I remember how good he made it sound that they were in Jamaica for a Thanksgiving holiday, that electrified everybody; Paul Miller, Esq., the self-proclaimed fast-talking Gomer Pyle and his motivational speeches; Jim (the logger) and Betty Jean Brooks, and his wild maniacal speeches, and a plethora of others. Bob Zeender and his driveway full of cars.  Then there was M-I-A's or not actives like Mickey Hamlet, of all people.  He was a big shot, so to speak, in those days.  I remember seeing and hearing all of these people at rallies.

    Perhaps the biggest shock was the Bill Britt (the city manager of Charlotte, North Carolina, if memory serves me correctly) fiasco I had read on your web site.  Oh my God. He was the grand-daddy.  The Alpha and Omega.  

    At that time in the late '70s he was a Triple Diamond.  I remember he claimed his business did one-hundred million dollars (great for his upline, Dexter Yager).  An awesome feat that put hope in me and others and kept me going for a long time, thinking there was hope for me, not the one-hundred million part, but the overall picture of my potential success. 

    I remember Bill Britt saying at a rally that he could look at someone in the eye and know whether or not they would make it in the business.  I met him in the lobby of the hotel of the rally in New York City at a Dream Building weekend, he had just returned to the hotel carrying a box of Bally shoes.  I went up to him and shook his hand and I got a smile, a word of encourgement, and the Bill Britt eye that looked right through me.  I wonder what he thought?  Too bad I didn't have a crystal ball to see where he would be and what would happen to him thirty or so years later.  I mean, come on Bill,  you of all people having an affair.   I think this fiasco happened around the time Viagra was introduced to the general public.  Oh, how the mighty have fallen. 

    It was truly shocking to see all that's happened with these people you list who I so dearly admired and looked up to after almost thirty years of me leaving Amway.  These people were "it" and all that mattered; everything we worked for and wanted to be was embodied in these individuals.  The Diamond Club was one of the carrots held out in front of everybody, an extremely big deal that kept everybody salivating. 

    "Zoom.  Zoom.  Zoom..." was the Bob Zeender battlecry that we all chanted at meetings, rallies we went to.

    "I'm going Diamond.  How about you?" was another.  I remember Alan Tokarski specifically telling people, me included, to go to the back of the room or another area of the rally meeting place and yell that out.  "It was for my benefit and everybody else's" I was told.   I actually felt like a fool doing that, especially being that I didn't have any pins.

    There were a plethora of other sayings, chants, etc.

    I remember Birdie Yager as a holier-than-thou type with her evening gowns and cocky grace on stage, hanging on her every word.

    I remember the Peak to Peek tape of the Rev. Robert Schuller that I still have today.  Possibility Thinking.  How I listened to Rev. Frederick Price and his sermons on speaking things into existence (he's still around singing the same song); Kenneth Copeland, and others of the name-it claim-it ilk.

    I remember two fellow distributors, two women, Upper Westside of trendy Manhattanites, plugging  est (Erhart Seminars and Training, the spelling may be off) to me and how it would help me in so many ways, especially to build my Amway business.  I Thank God I never subjected myself to that horrific training, and I never learned what the "it" was.

    I remember making the agonizing, heart-wrenching decision to leave the "business" because it wasn't working out for me and how depressed I was for a long time afterwards and all those things that were said about being negative, stink'n-think'n, people who don't make it in Amway, were alll fresh and resonating in my head.  I couldn't bear the thought of the guilt, what others in the group were thinking of me, especially the ones very close to me.  I guess I was trash. 

    I remember the hassel I experienced trying to get money back on the much-advertised money back guaranteed tapes and eventually only getting back like two bucks for tapes I paid five or six bucks for.

    Well, anyway, Scott, I know this sounds like the ravings of a madman, but it's coming back to me.  The more I think about it, the more I think about it and remember those happenings in that period of my life.

    Great web site.  keep up the good work.  Keep making updates. 

    I don't want you to think that I'm happy about what the future held for these people.  I just find it fascinating and interesting and I'm a curiosity seeker after almost thirty years, seeing what happend to them.

    If I think of other major things, I will email you again.     
    Thanks for your time.  I hope this email helps.

    Chris.

Mario

Hello Scott,

First off I have to say thank you for providing this information about the deceptions of the Amway/Quixtar business system.  I have been an IBO for Quixtar over the last few years and have been struggling to figure this business out ever since the plan was show to me just over a year ago.  I am ready to cancel my membership because of the valuable information I have found on this website and others alike.  If you would like feedback as to my input and experiences with this business I could be of help.  I am just fortunate to be young at 23 and learn from my mistake of joining the Quixtar business.

Best Regards,

Brad

Dear Mr. Short and Mr. Larsen,

I was recruited into Amway way back in 1985 by my friends at church. I quit in 1988. I then went to work as a video engineer for Brig Hart (the money was way better), setting up the video production system he used for his "conventions." That only lasted about a year and a half. During that time I was told by "insiders" that more people had joined up under Brig Hart than any other downline in Amway history. Then there was some kind of "falling out" between Brig Hart and us video guys. He then purchased the entire video production system (that I created, built & rebuilt) and hired his own "video guys" to run it. That lasted about a year. I found out, through the grape vine, that attendance to Brig Hart's meetings had dwindled way below expectations. Then he stopped using video for his conventions. Then by this time most, if not all, of my church friends who were in Amway, quit also.

To answer your specific questions:
A. How long were you involved (year-year)?
1985-1988

B. Which "training system" did you utilize? InterNET, ProNet, BWW, etc.
InterNet Tapes. TOW & DBR.

C. How much do you estimate you spent on books, tapes, and seminars/conventions, websites, etc, as promoted by your upline, in the hopes of "going diamond"?
$250 for the tapes, plus another $400 for seminars/conventions. The most expensive was held at the Grand Olde Opry in Tennessee. I flew up (& back) in my upline's single-engine plane because I didn't have the money to buy a plane ticket, yet had to buy half the fuel.

D. How many "plans" do you estimate you showed?
1st year probably a couple hundred. After that probably as much as 500. I stopped counting when I realized nobody was getting in. "This is you..."

E. What was your largest bonus check and pin level?
Pin Level? Bonus check? What dream world do you live in? The only pins I saw were when one of my friend made DD, then I think he got moved up to Emerald. But everyone under him got zilch, Nada, zero. Our "Diamond" upline was Louie & Cathy Carrillo, who were recruited by Brig Hart. Louie used to be an Air Traffic Controller who got fired by President Reagan when they went on strike. Think of a crime boss's "Uncle Vinnie" and that's Louie to a T. Under the Carrillo's were Jim & Valerie Boughner. There was some guy named Cal Fishbough (a retired airline pilot) who was above the Carrillo's.

1. Were you told that you did not have to sell products to customers? Simply "buy from yourself"?
Of course. But most of us later found out that we could get better deals from Avon & Sears.

2. Were you told that in 2-5 years working 8-15 hours per week that you could become financially independent as long as you utilized the proven training system? Or something similar?
Yes. I was told that the more people I get in, the better possibility I would have of making Diamond. What I didn't realize was that by getting more people in, they would get "hooked" onto buying tapes, and that the more tapes I would get people to buy would get me the bonuses.

3. Were you told that the FTC approved this particular business?
I was told that this was NOT a "pyramid scheme."

4. Were you told how important it was to invest your money and time in the system because success was assured?
Yes, but "buy more tapes" seemed to be the trend, not the exception. And that you should buy more tapes to increase your monthly PV/BV to get bonuses.

5. Were you taught to monitor your success by the number of people you had utilizing books, tapes, and seminars?
Yes. I was told that the reason my "business" wasn't successful was because I wasn't recruiting as many people as I could/should. What does recruiting people into your business have to do with how successful it is?

6. Were you told to give up personal time with your family, special events, etc. because the conventions should be the priority?
I was told that if my family, friends, whomever, would not get in, that they were not worth the effort to have around, and that I should ONLY have friends who are "in the business."

7. Were you told that the ONLY way to make money was to read books, listen to tapes, and attend all of the meetings? (Did you ever feel like an employee instead of an independent business owner?)
My experience with Amway made me feel as though I were a gypsy of sorts, a business-minded dressed-in-an-expensive-suit selling the "Dream" (whatever that was) gypsy, traveling from city to city, promising total strangers untold wealth but only having a few coins to rub together just enough to buy a cup of coffee with.

Now I'm left with tons of tapes I'm thinking of either:
A. melting in a fire, or
B. selling on Ebay.

Regards,
Dave

                                                                                Thanks for making a mistake          

Looks like you are one of those Amway/Quixtar failed member. I haven't yet joined Quixtar but I will surely join after reading your Website.

You make money by splashing wrong things on your website. I am not sure if you even drive a good car.

On the other hand I saw the fruit on the tree. The diamond speech. He was already successful. I am sure you will have to host 2 -3 web sites like this to put food on the table.

Stop all this and start working some where.  I mean " WORK" . You will make some money.

Looser
getrd@hotmail.com

Scott,

It's too bad that I didn't do my due dilligence and find your site BEFORE I joined.  I tried prospecting a friend of mine and he kept asking for more material to review and said "follow the money" or have you done your due dilligence?".   After repeatedly trying to "convince" him to join he sent me the link to your site.  I've downloaded and just started to read the Merchants of Deception ebook. 

Its been two months and I've made a whopping $146.16 in performance bonuses.  Now the question I have to ask myself is how much money have my wife and I spent to get that.  It appears at a first crack we've spent over $3100, not including costs of meetings or travel expenses.

I also need to ask myself is "Is this something that my wife and I should continue to persue?"

Thanks for the great information and keep it up!

I just finished perusing your website about the Amway/Quixtar business.  Some of the information you present seems valid and to the point.  But I do have a serious question for you.  What kind of petty life do you have that you have to spend the time, effort and money that you obviously do building and maintaining this website?

 I was a distributor (I got in long before it was Quixtar so I didn’t consider myself an IBO) from 1990 to 2000.   I can’t deny that I didn’t make any money.   I didn’t.  And I am absolutely shocked at the divorces that I’ve read about.  But I don’t have any regrets about the time I spent in the business.  My sponsor and I are still best friends to this day. (He’s not building the business anymore either but that’s another story).   But the “tools” business and the “system” that you seem to have such a negative view of provided me some of the best training for the real world that I never would have found anywhere else.  And some of the things that I learned there, were things that I absolutely would have never learned anywhere else.  Like the idea of residual income.  And the idea that as long as I trade my hours for dollars, I’m broke.    The books I read there and the tapes I listened to helped me with my life outside the business as well.

Another thing that I would like to know is this.  In your efforts to destroy the reputation of Amway/Quixtar, or in other areas of your life, how many people have YOU personally led down the road to financial success?  How many people are financially independent today because of your efforts.  Seems to me that if you took all the energy you put into this site and dedicated it to helping people financially, maybe you could offer financial hope to people rather than tearing down the dreams of others.  Why don’t you come up with something better if Amway is so bad.    I can understand someone being personally irritated by the way Amway treated them and telling everyone about it but I can’t understand the investment of serious time, effort and money to build a website dedicated to it. 

 Get a life.  Move on!   See a therapist!

Hi Davis,

 I'm sorry if you don't like my site.  I've helped tens of thousands save millions on possible Amway mistakes.

It's just a hobby.  Everybody has a hobby.  I'm sorry you don't like mine.  Maybe I would not like what you do in your spare time.   

I just feel these charlatans need to be exposed.  When you were being prospected did they propose you would make money doing it or just become a better person?   Were you attracted to the business because you were going to make money or that you would partake in some self improvement system?

 Scott

You’re right.  I WAS attracted to the possibility of making more money.   The self improvement was a by-product and certainly would not have attracted me into the business.  But in the end I came away a better person.  Also in the end, I don’t blame them or feel any animosity toward them.   I was the one who was unwilling to commit the time and effort.   I was the one who was unwilling to become involved in the lives of the people that I sponsored.   I was the one who didn’t put forth the effort.  I can’t blame them for my failure.  And it seems to me that the people who hate Amway so much want to blame them for the fact that they can’t do it.

 The other way you might want to look at it is this.  Perhaps you’ve saved tens of thousands of people  from spending millions of dollars on possible Amway mistakes.  But on the other side of the coin, what about those few who might have made it had it not been for your website snuffing out the flame on their dream.  And what of the ones that they might have helped?   The coin flips both ways.  That’s why I ask.  Do you present a viable alternative?  Have you helped anybody out of the morass of the daily grind of staking out a living every day?   How many people have you helped who were car wash workers making minimum wage to a point where they don’t have to depend on their hours for dollars anymore?  Amway is filled to the brim with stories just like that.   I’ve met them.   Where are yours?       

So you’re right.  They told me I could make money and I believed and still do  that I could have.    But I, mostly  because of fear, chose not to do what needed to be done to make it happen.  Who can I blame?    I can only look in the mirror and blame myself.     

 PS.   I honestly don’t dislike your website.  Like I said, there IS interesting information in it.  I am genuinely neutral in that regard.  I just don’t understand the animosity.

I am a frequent visitor to your sight. I guess it's just a matter of curiosity and interest that keeps me coming back, but it is interesting nonetheless. I just read through Al LeBlanc's book and he pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Initially, the Amway/Quixtar business was a great idea to be a home-based parttime money-making opportunity. But it has become a business that is eating itself up from the inside, full of deception and greed. The only reason the Diamonds came out exposing the making of money off of the tools was totally out of necessity. They had no choice because the media and other outside entities were forcing them to do so.

I saw your new post about Billy Florence and his letters to you.  So you made a few mistakes in calculations.  He's made HUGE mistakes in telling people that you can become financially free from AmQuix.

Billy's group has been in a downward spiral for years.  His only diamond left him.  He hasn't broken an emerald in about 10 years.  Heck he hasn't broken but a handful of directs in the last 5 years if that many.  More directs have left than he's been able to replace.  So in other words, I imagine he's hurting financially and he will lash out at anybody who can be seen as a threat to his precious lifestyle.

Keep up the good work and don't let the turkeys get you down.

Dear Scot,

Your site was a great resource for anyone trying to tear a thing down

Like all things, events and eventualities there is the good side and the bad side

You have chosen to highlight the bad (In your ‘learned’ opinion!)

Why don’t you talk about the benefits that a business like the Amway business gets in its building let me name a few:

1. Personal Growth which comes in the process of building the business that is unrivalled (having tried and tested various PD courses!)
2. Ability to handle rejection & become mentally strong!
3. Skill with people – Recognition of different personalities
4. Emotional balance
5. Financial Intelligence – (Check what Kiyosaki says about  Network 21 – Tape – Financial Intelligence)
6. A vehicle to help all those who are willing to change, grow, learn and do to stretch in achievement of their life mission
7. Build skills with practical & a theoretical emphasis (7 steps of ‘Core’)]
8. Association with like minded people that keeps you in the +ve frame of mind in all endeavours of ones life!
9. Above all a ‘Hope’ for the future along with a +ve hopeful expectancy in all of ones actions instead of a retarded negative mindset while carrying out any endeavours of ones life!

 And many many such intangibles that one can barely begin to described unless one has had a learning attitude, built a successful business, and stopped being a cry baby, whimp, whiner and a quitter!

 Now u gotta choose which side of the fence your creed belongs to!?

 As someone said so eloquently
 “The thing you desire so,
Waits in a distance,
Wrapp’t in silence unseen and dumb
Essential to thy soul and thy existence
LIVE WORTHY OF IT
Call and it shall come”

 Live it with Passion
Give Hope to people
That’s the need of the hour
Cast a vision of freedom
Show it to them with yer actions
Don’t tear down peoples dreams
Build them up, and importantly provide them alternatives to this business if you have any?

I’d be the first to accept!!

Shall you show me a better alternative to have unlimited time & money for me & my family

By the way do you have what u preaching the world then show me the way and I shall follow you!

Be a ‘Winner’ not a ‘Whiner’

 In anticipation

Basit

Dear Basit,

I guess you missed these pages on my site.

http://www.amquix.info/amway_business_training.html
http://www.amquix.info/amway_improvement.html

i was reading thru this link:

http://amquix.info/quixtar_products_on_ebay.html

and you wrote: "Now I did write "contact794" to see if they were a Quixtar distributor. They did not reply. My guess if they were not a Quixtar distributor they would have said so."

i believe this may be an incorrect assumption. in fact, based on my experience, i believe the opposite is true.

if they actually have an active listing, it means they are NOT currently a distributor, or at least probably not.

the reason is, a couple years after my distributorship lapsed, i listed an amway water filter on ebay. the auction was terminated within a day, by ebay. i emailed to ask why. ebay said, because amway/quixtar notifies them of auctions which are in violation of copyright/trademark, or other proprietary rights. they said, if i
want to list amway products on ebay, i have to get amway's permission first, and ebay provided me with an email address of someone at amway who handles these internet-selling situations.

i emailed amway/quixtar, asked why they canceled my auction(s). they said, because your distributorship agreement requires person-to-person selling, it is not permitted to sell amway products in a retail store, and ebay is considered to be the internet version of a public store.

i replied, that i am not a distributor, and to prove it, i provided my obsolete ADA number so they could look it up if they wanted to. they answered, in that case, there is no restriction. therefore we will notify ebay to remove your ebay user ID from the prohibited list.

after that, i have been able to list on ebay, any leftover amway products or system tapes that i wanted to, with no interference.

so my take is, amway/quixtar is actively shutting down *every* amway product auction which shows up on ebay, on a daily basis. every new amway product auction, listed by a seller who is NOT currently on their approved list, amway compiles a list of all those auction item numbers, and provides the list to ebay on a daily basis. ebay cancels all those auctions automatically, within a matter of hours.

thus, if you find a listing on ebay, the way to tell if they are active distributors is to check back in 2 days and see if the listing has been terminated prematurely. if the listing is still active, that means the person contacted amway/quixtar and got exempted from the restriction, or in other words, they are not a *current* distributor.

people selling amway products for a fraction of the cost, if those auctions were not canceled by amway/quixtar, then the best assumption is that the ebayer is a former distributor. perhaps someone who got front-loaded, or maybe they actually had some good volume moving through their group at the time they came to their senses and quit, and are just using ebay to get rid of some bad memories.

as for why the ebayer did not reply to you, the assumption that a non-distributor would have disclosed his status is possibly incorrect too.

for me, selling amway products as a former distributor, if someone has a question about the product itself, yes i'll answer the email (i.e.:  has the box been opened?)

but if someone emails about the status of distributorship, personally i avoided those questions. if i open up that pandora's box, it's just a no-win discussion.

if the other person is a current distributor then they are likely to write back and ask why i've "lost my dream". if they are a former distributor, they want to spill their guts to a sympathetic ear (something which was in short supply at the rallies) and that can turn into a non-ending email thread... very cathartic, but very
time-consuming too.

so i would pick-and-choose which email inquiries to reply to.

well that's my 2 cents worth. i know you've been in contact with countless former distributors, so your perspective is already pretty well-rounded. but i thought my experience of selling amway products on ebay might add a little bit of additional perspective.

Hello, Scott!

I never have been in Am/Quix, but have known many who have lost countless hours and dollars in it. 

I have been searching for information about how much their sales in the US and worldwide have fallen

in 2005.  There is a lot of info about the late 90's and up to about 2003, but 2005 info seems to be hard to find.  Do you know of a website that shows this?

I look forward to the day when Am/Quix tanks completely

Thanks

Bruce

http://www.amquix.info/amway_data.html

Love your site! how about doing somthing on how Quixtar doesnt do background checks and lets sexual preditors into the business, to pray upon families that are possibly brainwashed and especially their children.. sounds far fetched, but a co-worker is heavily involved with Quixtar, and I mean Heavily....come to find out he is a child rapist still on probation.... at any rate, just a though....i doubt he is the only one.....

thanks for your time

Jason

I guess, like any business, there are aspects of this business that have fallen prey to human factors. I have been exposed to much of what is offered
here and will acknowledge that much of it is true, but misses the point that the business is an opportunity, not a guarantee.

As for me, essentially two years of intense activity ten years ago continues to generate income to pay one of my mortgages, my cadillac payment, private school tuition for my son and the light bill.

While, once upon a time, I was a significant participant in the "system" income stream, I no longer receive any income from that side of the business, based on a personal choice I made. So, the results I state are the pure result of the sales and marketing plan.

As far as the Amway/Quixtar plan goes, I have been involved in business all my life (currently late fifties) and have never experienced anything that
delivered so close to the promise. I have never met anyone, nor heard of any anecdotal evidence, wherein someone produced the volume of business and
was not paid according to the published compensation plan.

It can be good, it can be bad, just like anything, except this continues to pay dividends for work done years ago, where else does this happen ?

Thanks
It worked for me.

Thank you so much for your site! My friend and I just had a meeting with a "Qwixtar IBO" this past Friday evening. The whole thing sounded too good to be true and I was still unsure after a whole hour and 20 minute presentation what we were supposed to do to make money. " I kept thinking, "how does buying stuff from ourselves make us money?" I hopped on the internet and did a Google search and found your site. I was not surprised that it was a scam but that they thrived on using religion as one of their "tools." I kept telling myself that this woman can't be trying to screw me, I go to church with her (that's where we met and she brought up this wonderful "opportunity") now that I have the facts I will be more than happy to give HER a list of a few web sites she can check out and give her a polite and firm "no thank you!" Thanks again and keep up the good work.

                    ~Kristen~

me and my wife was both Emerald Distributor under brigg hart! The Business Couldn't Save These Marriages even as both Emerald Distributor and it about killed briggs! he got out!  in fact amway is what killed it! when i turn into a Emerald Distributor i did not see my wife alot do tio i was working my down line and she was also the tools and tape made like 90% of the cash so I had to always oush it at opens and etc also, lost my wife but i cant lie its was fun and i injoy it. briggs got out due to it about killed his life doing the same and pushing tapes! it get to be a drag to some of us. got to run

David Crawford

To all you "biz owners" of the past. Stop blaming everyone else for your failures in "the business" Do you have any better options that you could sit
down with John Sestina and talk about. He's a world known financial planner & EDC in Britts group. Says he's never seen anything better, and it's his
job to advise people in that regard. Stop playing the blame game, look in the mirror and get on with your life. Go start another business!! It's not
uncommon for business' to fail....... So get on with it. And Scott, why don't you make a sight for everyone who dropped out of
college or university and then they could spread there vast knowledge about why they failed. You know, too many classes (meeting), books to expensive,
profs making too much money on books etc: ect: wah! wah!. Regarding Herosian in Canada. Best leader in the business. Perfect? NO! But leaves
it on the field with his efforts & leadership. Can't argue with his success. Several enterprises b/w his wife & him that are successfull. Hell
his son writes childrens books that are gaining popularity thru-out North America. And he does this with some serious challenges.
Winning runs in there family. Quixtar will continue to win and you and your followers will continue to lose. And I hate to say that. But as long
as the leader of this site continues to attack others & corporations you and your followers will not blessed in your current or future projects. Get
over it & get on with it.
PS Please post this on your comments page

RH
Lethbridge AB.

To: Hudgell Personal Group IBO's NZ and Australia

  Hi

  I am writing to you to keep you up to date with recent events that may impact the manner in which you receive business support and guidance. The attached email from Amway Corporation is fairly self-explanatory, and went out several weeks ago to select IBO's.

 Jaynie and I, as your Diamonds, wish to reassure you that together with Jody and Kathy Victor we are as available as ever to assist you in building your Amway business and we are happy to discuss with you any aspects of business building. 2006 promises to be a bright year in Plan B and our first IBO event is MMP NZ Summer Conference, January 27-29, with special guests MMP Canada Diamond IBO's Garry and Kimberley Coles. This event will help all in attendance gain a clear understanding of the MMP Game Plan, designed to assist us build strong and profitable businesses.

  We take this opportunity to wish you a safe and prosperous New Year and look forward to catching up with you at your convenience.

  Regards

  Craig Hudgell

Mob. 021-638642

Have Fun  Make Money  Help People tm

Dear Maddison Group leader,

As you may be aware Amway has for some time been dealing with issues arising from the way in which Peter and Lynne Maddison have chosen to conduct their Amway business.

The issues of concern have not been resolved and have recently come to a head. As a consequence, the company has accepted the resignation of Peter and Lynne Maddison from the Amway business in Australia and New Zealand.

Peter and Lynne now have no association whatsoever with the Amway business in Australia or New Zealand.

Jody and Kathy Victor have agreed to step into a more direct leadership role in both markets.

This change should have little, if any, impact on your Amway business activities.

We encourage you to speak to your upline leadership, who are in contact both with the company and with Jody and Kathy Victor.  Your Amway Business Relations Managers Kristen Cray,   New Zealand 0800 611 611 or Australian mobile 0416163 975 or David Cheok,  Australia 1800 45 46 47 are, as always, available to work with you.

Kind regards,

Tony Greig
General Counsel
Amway of Australia, New Zealand
& South Africa
Ph 61 2 9843 2170
Fax 61 2 9843 2293

Hi,

I was approached and went to a meeting last night. I had a funny feeling about the whole thing.  I just read some info on your site. 

They offered me a website to buy things off of through Quixtar.  $40 a month to get that service. 

I asked my friend a lot of questions afterwards.  His wife actually stopped working because he was making enough money to cover her income.   The old work 15 hours a week I heard as well. 

Is there any other information I can get on this topic.  I’m not sure what’s on the Interenet is true or not true. 

It’s legal from what I understand, but it just doesn’t feel legal??? 

I’m just looking for more info on this topic.

Neil S. 

Hi Scott

My name is Jason and I was an Amway Distributor for just over 5 years in the UK 1989 to 1995.  I have found the site very interesting and can relate to alot of the information.

My business was supplied with books, Tapes, etc from a company called IBS. 

www.ibsnews.co.uk/people.html

www.ibsnews.co.uk I do not have the password to enter this area.

Having been in the business through a recession there was phenomenal growth with large conferences of 15,000 in Birmingham and London plus appearances from USA diamonds such as Bill O'Brien, Fred Hartice etc

In all I lost around £20,000 over the period and acquired a garage full of tapes and books the later being more useful.

I remember the quotes "if you can't succeed in Amway you will never succeed"  "Anyone that does not see the opportunity was a looser" "functions are more important than family occasions" the latter one was the reason I quit as it was my wedding and all my upline were too busy to come!

I have a link to the website for IBS to add to your records.

Keep up the good work

Regards

Jason

Dear Scott:

I just recently came across your very informative site and just had to write and say thank you.  I was involved in Amway back in the mid to late 90's for about two years.  I got out just as they were going to Quixtar.  It was a time in my life that I haven't forgotten and probably never will completely.  I say that not only because of the many $$$ that I flushed down the toilet, but also because of the rise and fall of "A DREAM".  I considered my sponsors to be good people that I could trust that had my best interest in mind.  In the years since, I have questioned that many times.  After reading through your site, I question it to the point that it gives me a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.  If I remember correctly, they were emeralds at the time and were going for diamond.  I remember leaving a voice message on the rip-off amvox system one day stating that I would no longer be buying any tapes, etc.  I never heard from them again and have not contacted them.  We live in the same city.  In fact, the reason I found your site was that I googled their name to try to see if they ever made it to diamond.  I have been sitting here for hours now; amazed by reading the names of those we were practically taught to idolize back then.  Only now, there names are associated with those who have blown the whistle, divorced, been sued, had affairs, etc.  How disheartening to read.  I hope and pray that I never again attempt to ignore my instincts like I did back then.  Yet, I can be thankful I stopped ignoring them when I did.  It's a horrible feeling when you see in black and white that so many of those people I used to see on stage and listen to on tapes were in reality fakes and cons.  I would love to see the day when this organization is dealt the blow it deserves.  The thousands of us out here who gave hard earned money chasing a pipe dream will never get our money back.  Yet, there would be great satisfaction in knowing that justice has been served.  I cringe to think of all of those yet to be taken in by this outfit.  Thanks again for your exposure of the truth.  

Mike

Hi Scott,

Beth and I are former rubies if you want to add us to your list.  You have probably seen our lawsuit on-line as well...http://www.amquix.info/aus/lavoie.htm

Beth is a high school english teacher and I work in software sales.

Our sponsors were directs:  Mark and Marybeth Francoeur  they are now in real estate(left Amway)

Their sponsors were direct:  Steve and Lee Prevost (left Amway so we've heard)...they were actually related to Frank and Joan Mazzeo who are or were Diamonds under Storms.

Have you heard any recent info on either Don and Ruth Storms or Frank & Joan Mazzeo?

John Lavoie

did you ever notice how when they do out their bio's on a website,(Al's is Crown Realty) they list their previous biz experience, schools attended etc... but they never mention their "multi million dollar international network marketing business??? It's like they're ashamed of it?? I can't imagine!!! (lol) Hope you had a great new year."Big Lou"

We left in 1997 after going 4000 pv, losing an estimated 25K+ in over 4 yrs (& we were 19 wide!! ( they were the smart one, most refused to buy the crappy products & system & quit) )plus getting audited (came out ok, I told the irs it was a legit biz, a lousy, crappy , stupid ass, what was I thinking? biz, but still a biz. ) Worse yet 1 yr after I got in my wife was downsized after 21 yrs with the same company & my scam artist ex-emerald convinced me to get into another biz which almost put us into bankruptcy & then tlod me I was whining because my house payments were late, got 3 kids & no retirement when I asked for "counseling". The friggin' jerk, I found out later on was still in debt up to his ass & he wasn't really even an emerald..(just a yappin' motivational putz, trying to  fleece the flock). The good news is my conventional trucking related biz is doing great & its been a long climb but with the help of God Almighty we're doing ok again.. The funniest thing is my wife an I

counseled with  upline emerald Dr. Romano who after hearing our story told us it "was mental abuse" &  he could easily understand us leaving the biz.. Get a load of that crapola!! I should of asked him for a check for 50 grand to help ease our "mental abuse" Anyway keep up the good work!!! Theres so many people out there that get devastated & brainwashed by these  anti-christ like con -artists... What the hell was I thinking?  G.

what good do u  offer people ..u too sell ur books and everything on website..dont u have shame why didnt u post it on the website.nice way of marketing by blaming someone.yes there are assholes in every buisness but bcoz of that a buisness is not bad.dont wanna justify anyone u nor those amway people.send ur contact info and thn we will talk

Raaj tumahara raaaaj40@yahoo.com

Ron Faircloth, owner of American Tuxedo, with stores in Fort Mill, Gastonia and Statesville, N.C.

http://www.heraldonline.com/lifestyles/story/4726648p-4361961c.html

Scott

Here are the details for the Summer Conference in Australia.  Interestingly as part of the Chatham organisation we had our own (Canberra, Melbourne & Brisbane).  Now it seems Chatham (FSI) has rolled into IDA with only Brisbane & Canberra.  The theme is Diamond Focus.  Chatham uses Emerald Focus Boards which is similar to some lines in the States.  We haven’t heard much from Trevor in the past few months since his marriage (3^rd).  Some Emeralds have been giving the monthly updates.  A recent Diamond here is Peter & Pauline Shack.  Peter is a former federal politician and opposition minister for Health in the early to mid eighties.

 Cheers

 Paul