Site Visitor E-Mail Jan 2005 

Hi Scott

It doesn't appear that I would be able to get a back-issue copy of the 4% article that I e-mailed to you (I was thinking of sending an original copy to you in the mail, so you that could scan it yourself if you wanted to) because I did not renew my IBO membership last year. I'm holding on to the original in case any of my friends or acquaintances ever become involved in Amway under the same false assumptions that I had been told. So, the best that I could do is send you a clear photocopy. That is, of course, if you think that the article is worthwhile for your website (and if the scan that I sent isn't of any use). For me personally, the article was one of the final nails in the coffin of my IBO activities. I actually loved the personal development that the system offered, which was my original interest in the business, so the system expense was initially no issue from my own perspective. However, some things did not add up and a lot of questions had been growing in my mind from the start, as well as a number of conflicts of interest. Then, when I decided that I wanted to generate my primary income from the business, the financial side became very important too.

I had come across your website two years ago at a time when my doubts about the business were becoming greater than my belief in its value. Once I found your website I sat there for hours reading, and I kept returning to it regularly to keep abreast of any new updates. In fact, one of the main reasons that I renewed as an IBO last time was so that I would continue to receive the quarterly magazine and retain access to my upline's website to see how the business was going in light of it all (another reason was that I was that I missed the dynamic atmosphere and the direction that the business provided, and I hadn't fully made a final decision). I saw the numbers that attended the functions dropping, the frequency of the open meetings reducing, and the price of the system increasing (e.g. tapes went from $6 when I started, to $13 a little while ago. This apparently includes a postage and handling fee of $3, but it would cost less than $1 to actually mail a tape if I did it myself). This all added together to steer me away from continuing to participate in the business. Personal development was my primary motive in the beginning, and I value honesty and integrity. But, there were certain elements of deceit that did not sit well with these values. Your website (and other information that I had) confirmed some of my suspicions and brought light to many other considerations. For that I am very grateful, Scott. Thank you very much.

Although my own upline didn't appear to encompass all of the things that are listed on your website, there are still so many things that are so very relevant. I do however keep in occasional contact with at least one of my upline. He is a good man. I don't actually regret my time or expense in the business, because I learned a lot and I got much of the personal development that I was looking for. If I hadn't of spent my money on the tapes, books, and seminars in the business, I would have found other personal development activities to spend my money on (although the recent price increase for the system is getting a bit expensive even for me). I only ever had 14 people in my personal group at one time, so I did not fully appreciate how others view the system expense. Some of my downline enjoyed the system, while others did not participate in it. According to your website and my other observations, many other people apparently do not wish to outlay too much on personal development expenses, and I can see their point of view clearly. I am single, with no dependents, and I'm often off traveling around the world to experience life and learn from other cultures. I have no financial commitments to a family of my own. The last friends who I considered 'helping' in the business have a mortgage, a car loan, and a new-born child. I decided not to 'help' them into the business, because even if they became successful there would be a host of others like them who would not make it, and who would be worse off financially for their efforts. The statistics of success are too low (including for those who put in a lot of hard work) and the payments are too disproportionately focused towards the top. And furthermore, the business isn't all that upline IBO's say that it is anyway. Your website contains many examples, and for me the 4% article that I sent you helped to undermine my last interest in the business. Even if I were honest and upfront with people about the business (which would attract dissent from upline anyway) the so-called "residual / passive" 4% income is no good if it isn't actually 'passive' (i.e. you have to be 'active' to maintain your personal 7500pv group so that you can receive a decent 4% 'passive' bonus, while also motivating your downline 7500pv groups). When I worked out how much I would get from a reduced 4% bonus (without a personal 7500pv group) minus the effort and expense required to set it up and maintain it, I considered that it is not worth it. This consideration was on top of all the other considerations that I had going through my mind at the time.

But this is just more food for thought for you, Scott. I appreciate the effort you have made to bring a whole lot of much needed information to light. You are doing a good job and providing a valuable service to many who need more information to make a complete decision. Again, thanks.

Best regards

David

Hi Scott,

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to collect and share such valuable information. I am an extremely open-minded and analytical person and try to analyze information as honestly as possible. I am a 23 yr old Computer Engineer and me and my wife are doing very well for our young age. We gross approximately $120,000/yr with very insignificant debt. But like many other people, I got caught in the "dream". I started as an IBO 1.5 yrs ago in the BWW LOS under Kanti Gala/Raj Shah both EDCs. I cannot be for sure, but I do believe it is the fastest growing organization within the business. In the last 15 years in North America which is when Kanti Gala started, he has broken 19 diamonds including 5 EDCs and a double diamond. This group consists mainly of East Indians. I personally believe that this is because Indians abroad form a very well knit society and usually are away from their families back home and hence, tend to stick together for the most part. Also, a lot of the teachings from BWW are very similar to what we have learnt in our own culture. In any case, I started in July 03 when my wife and I had just started our jobs and we were STPing from day one. We were the poster children and used as examples everywhere we went. I had never heard of Amway or any other MLM before so the concept looked real good. I understood business investing and hence, went on SOT/Leadership, CommuniKate immediately. A friend of mine pointed me out to your website but the "star" that I was, I simply disregarded your information.

We sponsored 9 people in our first 3 months and went on to sponsor 15 legs total. Within 8 months we were 4000PV with a 2500PV, 1000PV, 600PV leg. Of course, we pushed the volume just to hit that pin. We made $345 in Nov, 03; $256 in March, 04; $525 in April, 04; $918 in May, 04; $ 450 in June, 04. This does not include any retail profit and I would say we started doing around $50 profit in retail since May 04. All in all we made around $2800 in our first full year which I know for a fact is more than anyone else I knew personally made besides one other person. I am waiting for Quixtar to send me a 1099C and will be more than happy to send it to you. Even though it looks decent for our first year, I did a business annual review and saw that I spent $6000 on BWW tools and around $5000 more on the expensive Quixtar products that I would not have bought if not to hit the PV brackets. All in all a loss of $8500. Keep in mind that our checks were shown to crossline as an indicator of how well we were doing and if we kept doing it, we would start qualifying for platinumship within our first year.

It was around that time, when I decided to do an in depth study of all the systems, the markets, success rates, and such. So here's the problem; unfortunately all our uplines are subject to influence from their uplines and hence, the lies and deceptions flow downward without anyone raising a flag because the information is given by the "almighty know-all upline". Well, I can start pointing out all the lies and deception inherent but you have already done a great job doing that. My focus is the Gala group. Most of these guys are on F-1 or H-1 visa status which prohibits them from engaging in any activity to earn income beyond their present sponsoring employer. Still, they are told as I was that Quixtar has ties and treaty with the Indian Government and that they are allowed to receive income from Quixtar, which any decent lawyer would tell you, is untrue.

Secondly, Indians are very trusting and friendly by nature and are usually lacking a sense of belonging in a foreign country, which the Quixtar IBOs are quick to prey upon. Most of these Quixtar people are generally extremely nice, and credible (Most are professionals with high level of education) which is used to lure students from various universities.

So if there are any Indians/Pakistanis reading this within the Gala LOS, I can tell you from a personal perspective to stay away from this unethical business and pay more attention to the real reason that you came to the US. To create a lifestyle by working hard for your employers who have taken the pain and put faith in you by sponsoring you for work Visas. There is no financial freedom in this business. In fact, I am experiencing freedom since I "quit" this business. Now you may call me a quitter but then by your account rehab is also probably for quitters. If someone smokes and wants to quit, you applaud him/her and encourage, not criticize them for the act. Why? Because smoking is injurious to your health and those around you. Same this with the Quixtar business with BWW.

Just a side note, I do believe that Quixtar itself is an excellent corporation with the best customer service. BWW, well, that's the real criminal.

Thanks and I hope I helped.

Just to let you know that my good friend Steve Faught is alive and doing very well. Although I should let him tell his own story, suffice to say that he "saw the light" and has moved on. He is the owner of a very successful business in so Cal, and continues to be one of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. The man personally took the time to help me disengage from the Amway nightmare over 5 years ago, and I cannot thank him enough.

Please withhold my name if you publish this.

I have to add that reading your information 5 years ago, and the pages from Jeff Probst also helped me in my deprogramming and helped me to return to sanity.

 

Scott,

I just wanted to write to let you know I found it both sad and humorous that you found you were doing the world a favor by posting a website that documented the destruction of marriages in the Amway/Quixtar business. I find it to be a noble goal, despite the shortcomings of Bill Britt and Paul Miller, to strive for reconcilliation of marriages and to nurture marriages through a business opportunity. In a world where women's libbers declare their equality to men in corporate America, where husbands sleep around on their wives because they are so consumed with their jobs and a dollar bill, and you take pride and joy in the fact that you can single out a group of people and glorify their demise. You may argue that they are hypocritical because they talk so strongly about the importance of marriages but even the person with the most godly intentions can slip up one time. Granted, it's on a grand stage over who they have a great influence on but it is tragic nonetheless. I hold no ill will toward you. I think it's sad that you choose to use your 'unproductive' time to gossip and destroy another man's reputation. The God I serve is merciful and will forgive even you if you choose to turn to Him. God is a great scorekeeper and so I can rest my head at night knowing that someone way bigger than I is calling the shots. God Bless and take care.

Brad

Hi Brad,

Thanks for the note.

Actually people deceived these charlatans send me the information.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts you. I don't glorify their demise. I'm not sure where you got that from.

I do not find it noble to disguise a "marriage counseling service" has a business opportunity. Plenty of marriages have been torn about by the "biz" as well. I'm sending a recent example from MLMsurvivors (see below).

Btw, I love how you hold nothing against me but you threaten me with God's retaliation. That is a classic, if I ever heard one.

Did you ever once consider that God might have called me to do this work for him? To run the "money changers" out of the temple?

You are right. God is the score keeper and you can't pretend to make judgements for him.

Regards,

Scott

Hello! This is my first time posting a message. . . .I have visited this site several times and have been encouraged by what I have heard. I cannot say I am a survivor as yet as all that Quix/Amway has taken from me is still being determined. My husband joined Quixtar/Amway before we got together five years ago and at first glance it seemed like a great opportunity. I agreed to support him in his "quest for freedom" although I never quite bought it the way that he has.


After three years of seeing our lives fall apart (all the while watching my starry-eyed husband take every last penny we had to by tapes and books, go to functions, and buy overpriced disappointing products) I confronted him about how I felt about "the business" and said that I didn't want to be a part of it anymore. Well, you can imagine how a well-trained head-of-the-household IBO would react to that kind of declaration. My attempts at "stealing his dream" were met with(sad to say) every kind of retaliation from name calling to intimidation to, in the end, silent contempt for a submissive wife gone bad....


All of this I do not blame on my husband for it is the deception and exploitation by Quix/Amway and its representatives that have led good people, well meaning people to give up their lives, their families, their freedom(the irony astounds me) in search of a perfect life that supposedly is always just around the corner.
It has been almost a year since our confrontation. I agreed to see him through another year of pursuing "his dream" which I thought was quite generous seeing how we have been at a $7,000.00+ loss (per our accountant) in our business for at least the past three years.


If by the end of this coming March,he has not reached the goals he set, he has said he will walk away from this business and not look back. Now I have some serious doubts as to the probability of him actually following through with that promise. As March approaches our biz is falling apart. In this past year our biz has done less volume than any other year by far. We have had a significant number of IBOs quit and my dear husband still thinks he is going to get rich. The anger I feel for MLM's and Quix/Amway in particular is indescribable. My husband, whom I love with all my heart, is brainwashed beyond all comprehension, going so far as to think that if don't agree with him and this business that I am basically of the devil. He has even said to me "I rebuke you" while I was trying to convey to him some of the negative aspects of this business and how it was affecting our family, as if I were some evil spirit sent to torment him. You can imagine my frustration(to be kind) with this situation. My husband and I live together still but it is such a sore subject we cannot discuss it. My whole goal this year has just been to persevere until March and then see what happens. I do not know what I will do if he continues on with it and doesn't fulfill his promise to quit. The thought of leaving him makes me feel ill as we have a three-year-old son and I have him to think about too. If you have taken the time to read this entire message I thank you for letting me share at least a part of my story with you. If you can relate to my story or have any advice for me regarding how to "de-brainwash" my husband I would sincerely appreciate a reply.

Second letter

Thanks to all of you who responded to my last message. It is such a relief to know others are of the same opinion. For so long I've felt as though there were something wrong with me because I just couldn't buy into the scam. My husband thinks I just don't have a big enough dream, or I'm just not willing to do the hard work, or I am not putting enough faith in God. . . . on and on until I start to question myself.


My husband and I are both Christians and It is amazing to me how the "system" uses God to try to lure Christians into the biz. My husband now thinks that this is God's purpose for his life, his ministry, so to speak. I've tried to reason with him and ask him why God would give him this purpose when I am so opposed to it. Wouldn't God want us working toward the same goals and dreams. Would he really give him a "purpose" that I cannot and will not support? I don't think so. He says I am supposed to be his help-mate, supporting him regardless of what I believe. . . .This is what the books will feed you if you read them. I actually read this book on the reading list called "You can be the wife of a happy husband". In this book the author basically says that whatever your husband desires of you is what God's will is for you. If your husband isn't a Christian and wants you to go to strip clubs with him even though it is against your moral beliefs than you should go and by you "submitting" yourself to your husband you will lead him to know Christ. If your husband goes out and cheats on you with other women you should make yourself more appealing to him and take him back regardless. . . and on and on.
I am sorry but I am a wife, not a doormat.... I will not compromise my moral values and beliefs for anyone, not even my husband. This book is trash and I cannot believe that even the "system" could not only endorse but promote this way of thinking. Of course it works out nicely for them if women become complacent and submissive, then whatever crap their husband, or any other upline for that matter, tells them isn't questioned or threatened.


I have to say that I do think there are a lot of good books that are on the reading list-books about self-esteem, relationships, and so on. Let's face it, if it were all crap so many people wouldn't buy into it. Its the sad truth, however, that that is how most cults work. They lure you in with what seems like obvious truths and a lot of it is. And then once they have you believing that they are the way, truth and the life, they can feed you whatever they want and you buy it simply because they said it and they are so right-on!!! It is a sad thing. . . .
Being that my husband is a Christian, and even more fanatical now that he has found his true "purpose" is there any advice out there from someone who is a Christian and can see this biz for what it is. . . .not of God but of the devil I'm sure (Does Antichrist come to mind? HA HA)? I would love to hear from anyone who has read this and has something to say!!!!! Bye Bye for now.

Third letter

My husband calls me this evening when I'm on my way home from work and says we need to talk when I get home. Great, I think to myself, what did I do this time. I felt panicky when I thought he had somehow found this sight and read my postings. Guess I should have used an AKA huh??? Well when I got home I learned that wasn't the case. He was actually irate because I have been purchasing "negative" products. You know the ones-better, cheaper, there when you need them, and oh so enticing because you can buy them whenever you want from whatever store you want? I have tried to humor him and buy things through the business because he thinks I'm trying to sabotage the business if I don't. But sometimes I just can't take it anymore. You know- I have been using the same body wash and shampoo for five years. Tell me one sane women in their right mind who would, under normal mental conditions, do that????


NONE!!! Well, I didn't argue with him about it-how could I? Yes I was in direct defiance, but then am I an adult or what?? He told me (this was what really kills me) that when I buy "negative" products it's the same as it would be if I came home and he was sitting on the couch looking at pornography. What kind of analogy is That??? I had no words to say to him after that and he went to work on that note.
What should I have said? Is it even worth arguing about?? If it's so important to him am I suppose to give up what I believe is my right to buy the things I enjoy and want to use??? So many questions. . .perhaps someone out there knows-I sure don't

 

Scott,

I understand your viewpoint. I don't agree with it though. Amway/Quixtar has never in any facet of the business publicly stated they are a marriage counselor business. There are many variables that go into a marriage being destroyed so to list a whole host of examples stating that Amway/Quixtar people had their marriages destroyed because of the business is really unfair. The list of marriages that were cultivated and grown and developed are as many or more than the examples you provided declaring how the business destroys marriages. You are entitled to your opinions. It's unfortunate that your website has become the bathroom wall of society for people who have had bad experiences with individual persons in the business. The whole business gets a bad reputation because people hype up and publicize it when they have a bad experience with it. Do you honestly think it's fair to judge the merits of everybody by the merits of a few? I understand you feel you are doing a service to people and that's fine. I was wondering if you know of any websites that talk about how many marriages have been destroyed by people working 50-60 hours a week, people cheating on their spouses with people at work, kids not knowing who their parents really are because they spend endless hours in daycare? Just because it's not taught in schools doesn't make it wrong. Appreciate your viewpoint though Scott. Take care and God Bless.

Brad

Hi Brad,

I thought the business got a bad reputation by all the lies the diamonds and their downlines tell. I have tons of examples. The people complaining were lied to.

What was interesting is that Quixtar will kick out a diamond for working a second MLM before they will kick him out for knowingly stating false income claims in public meets. (Joe Land example)

I don't deny other business and occupations can also ruin marriages. Amway and the real world are no different. That is the point I'm trying to make. I never said the corporation publicly stated anything about saving marriages. But, the AQMOs say a lot about it.

Scott

Scott,

You are correct in saying that the business got a bad reputation from lies that were told by diamonds, downline, etc. I understand what you are saying. My point is that it appears that you have personal vendetta against Amway, etc. People get lied to all the time Scott!!! You should be able to see that. I don't agree with kicking out a Diamond for having another MLM business but not kicking him out for stating false claims. I've heard the whole Bo Short story and I don't doubt that any of that happened. Here's my thing though. Why is your website dedicated to informing the mislead about MLM and in this case Amway/Quixtar? There are plenty of other things out there that you should be informing people about that are far worse and quite frankly more important than slamming MLM's. There will always be complainers in this world and there will always be venues for those people to be heard. I just think it's a shame, as I mentioned earlier, that the merits of everybody are lumped together under the merits of a few who are unethical, crooked, whatever adjective you want to use. There are many good things that MLM's do and an honest person can't deny that this type of business has helped people. I can't believe I'm having this dialogue with you but I felt strongly enough about it but I also want you to understand I see your viewpoint. Do I wish you would stop? Yes, but I know you won't because you believe you are doing the right thing. The unfortunate thing is that there are many people involved in MLM's that have good intentions, their hearts are in the right place, and they genuinely want to help people; you are destroying these peoples businesses because people can't differentiate between isolated incidents that happened in respective businesses with respective people and what is standard operating procedure. Consider this please....no hard feelings.

Brad

Dear Scott:

I appreciate your site and the from friend’s personal experience truth that I see there.

I did notice an error on the ExDiamond page: MLM Melaleuca. Melaleuca is not MLM. You can verify that with the United States Chamber of Commerce; Direct Sales Association, etc. if you don’t believe them.

Scott,

This is the first time I have come across your site. I like the research, effort & time you have put into this.

I wish I had seen your site before I became involved in (ILD) Amway now Quitxar. I am no longer involved in this organization or active.

I am writing because I am surprised with all of the research I did not find anything on Jeff & Andrea Moore. Executive Diamonds & now probably only qualified Emeralds.

They have now moved down to Texas as they have burned thru the State of Alaska. If you have nothing on this want to be prophet, cult leader. Watch the horizon, this is the couple that fits with some of the rest on your site. I feel sorry for the people in Dallas Texas...

Again I found your site very informative and should I say balanced.

Scott,

I am sorry you have had a negative experience with Quixtar. This in not true of everyone. I am personally talked to people about this, however; their line of sponsorship was responsible for this, not Quixtar!!!

We happen to have one of the BEST organizations in the country representing Quixtar and I think you should have realized these things before you created this site. Perhaps if you had spent the energy on your business as you have on this site, YOU would be as successful as we are.

Just an opinion of an IBO who, like ALL my partners are very happy and successful and are very honest hard working individuals. This is America, the land of the FREE, this means we are able to make our own decisions and be happy with them. You seem to too focused on negative issues, try some positive thinking. Only you can control your destiny, and it wasn't Quixtar that taught me that, that is a life lesson, you either get it or you don't. Perhaps it is time you rethought your focus in life?

Sincerely,

A very Happy and Successful IBO of Quixtar not Amway

PS. Amway is no longer in business in the USA, why not? Quixtar is and growing by the millions and Why is 83% of the fortune 500 companies teamed up with a business that is soooo bad????

 

PPS. To answer your question which I know you are asking; I am on this site due to things I have heard about you , and for curiosity of what you are telling people. This is just your opinion. Take care and I hope you reconsider changing your life around. Oh and I also wanted to add, I am a Roman Catholic not a cult member.

Dear Scott:

Saw your "Amquix" site regarding broken marriages among higher pins...wanted to contribute this gem although since the couple are still together, perhaps it doesn't count. I worked for an Internet dating service from 1995-98 and part of my job was "quality control" which meant screening calls for blatant sexual content. The idea was if someone was interested in "getting together" they would leave a message on a local voice mail number, but how we made our money was that in order to pick up any replies to your "personal ad," you had to dial a 900 area code number which charged $2 per minute to your phone bill. Anyway, in screening the calls for our Sacramento affiliate, I heard a familiar and distinctive voice from a gentleman who was looking for an available lady.

The caller spoke how he would be available to travel anywhere since he owned and flew a light plane. I realized that the voice belonged to INA Executive Diamond Clarke Broome (my upline) who is married to the lovely and talented Diana ;p

I recorded the message and still have the tape somewhere but I don't think anyone in my crossline would believe it since, God only knows, all the Diamonds in the Sacramento area attend THAT church. Actually, thinking about it, I can't say that I blame Clarke for wanting to take a little "break" from his marriage...

I enjoyed a great two-year run being part of Quixtar td. We had lots of fun built great relationships. The thing is that did not matter because we lost some money and made nothing in return to all the investments we were told to make. I really did not need a business to build friends and have a good time. I have been out of the business for over a year now trying to get my finances taken care off. When you sign up your told about all money people are making and how rich you are going to be. So I was stupid and did not take care of my bills like I was before the business and as I invested more money and sleepless nights I amassed more debt for myself. Over two years my wife and I had a maximum team of three people off and on when people Quixtar there was always something in the back of my mind that thought the business was a great idea but was just wrong. A business that went after innocent people that did not know any better. You're forced to dream and think about the good life. The business as a whole is designed for most people to fail. Then thinking about quitting that is a terrible idea because the people that did not agree with you when you showed them the "PLAN" they won. You are lazy because you won't drive here or there. Stay up to 4am even though you have to be to work at 7am. This happened a few times. Your taught work sucks and you stupid for having a traditional job.

I have lots of material that is mine because I paid for it and lots more of insight. Need more info or perspective just let me know.

sincerely

Tony

I have tried for weeks to get he to clarify the payments received, the income potential and other related ideas. The products seem way over priced. My biggest concern was why do I want to get taxed on the income I may receive from doing this if most of the kick back is from buying products for my self. If I buy a car from dodge and get a 3000.00 rebate I don't get a w2. He has never mentioned selling products, he just says buy for yourself, he says there are codes to make it show you bought for others. I think the concept is fine if your intent is to use this shopping portal as a savvy consumer and look for the best deal. But this whole tape, book, seminar crap really bothers me. Then he says people monitor your spending and will tell you when you need to send more to get the next higher refund and payment. Again if I use my GMAC card to earn bonus dollars towards a future purchase then I don't get a W2. He won't stop bugging me to get on board and yet he can not answer my questions in regards to taxes and potential income in a simple to see chart. HELP

Scott,

Great website... man, 8 years (its been 4 years since we left) and we still are kicking ourselves.

Updates for MIA:

Bill Kelly died. Hank and Karla Kiefert - I saw Hank at my last major function for WWDB... he had come back to the organization. I overheard that he and Karla divorced but this is unconfirmed.

Keep up the good work.... an amazing amount of info.

Matthew

 

I've been enjoying your website regarding Quixtar and Amway. I found it after reading Eric Scheibeler book, "Merchants of Deception." I am a former (very former) Amway distributor from 1978. I was only in "the business" for about a year and left when my sponsor tried to tell me that his marriage was "saved by Amway." The "tapes" were a big thing back then too.

Your site is extremely informative and, hopefully, you will be able to continue the battle.

sincerely,

Robert