Scott,

Thanks for writing back so soon. I've thought about the newspaper but I have no idea now about when I can use the Quixtar / Amway name and not be in trouble. I don't understand how they can sell me something, allow others to sell me tools, and then not allow me to sell them to try and re-coop some of my money. It's not like I am selling them with a Satanic Bible or anything. These tools are the originals and not copies. Guess the interest of the IBO is not at their hearts.

I was in the Britt-Crowe-Spencer-Harris line. My sponsor is a silver direct and I know him from work. He is pretty high on the corporate ladder and his sponsor is a Platinum who is even higher at Lockheed Martin. I am in the Navy and we contract with Lockheed Martin in the Nuclear Engineering design and training. These people were people that I respected for their positions at work before I knew they were in the business. I did not have much contact with them at work but my sponsor and I knew one another very little when I was on duty here back over 5 years ago. When I came back he recognized me (probably because in the Navy we have our name on our uniforms) and made some small talk then ran back to his office and wrote my name down.

One night I was home, about this time last year, and he called me and made some small talk (ensuring me it was not about work). Then he used the "Shot in the Dark" line and asked me if I kept my business options open. He told me he was working with some local entrepreneurs on the business development end of a large virtual mall and we scheduled time to get together over coffee and talk about it. It just so happens that at the time I was designing websites for some local business men and word was getting around that I was learning and building websites. I assumed that he had heard and wanted to talk to me about being part of designing this virtual mall with his "local partners".

When we got together he mentioned that he was working the Quixtar program and was quite successful. I was familiar with Quixtar because I knew some people that got in at launch and quickly left when they realized it was Amway. I let him do his thing because maybe this guy knew something about Quixtar that the others didn't (and don't forget I still respect this guy from work). I didn't see any money in the plan and told him that but I was interested in a way to save time and money by having my shopping delivered. He told me the only thing he gets at the supermarket is produce, vegetables and breads and the rest was delivered to his home from his own store.

We set a time to get together with his wife and mine and we had coffee at his house. He has a very nice house (obviously from his position at work) and that was impressive to my wife and I because we only dream of owning our own house like that. They were very friendly and we got along good.

I joined honestly because I was shopping for a new Gateway computer and they had a program with Gateway to save 10%. The savings of the computer bought my kit and that's how I justified it. But obviously he became interested in me and because I like to listen to motivational tapes already he kept loaning me Britt tapes. He knew I was a Christian so I unknowingly was getting tapes that talked a lot about God. My wife and I enjoyed that and was starting to wonder if it is possible to build this business with these Godly people. Everyone on the TEAM was very friendly and some I already knew from work had already been duped and were there telling me to latch on to this guy and he'll take me places. My dream was to get out of the Navy in 3 years and not have to find a J.O.B.

We went to a function and were impressed with this guy John Crowe and he became our hero. We were also really impressed with the Sunday morning service. My wife started seeing me as the guy crossing the stage and we dropped our other projects and began to follow the "Leaders".

We sponsored our first couple before we really even got started ourselves. I worked with him and they were looking for something and I should him the things I was working on. I told him that I recommended Quixtar because it dealt with consumables and that just makes sense. I told him I didn't know much about the business or how the pay plan worked and he should get together with my sponsor to understand it. They were really sponsored by accident and we became good friends (and still are) and went to the first function together. We had someone sponsored and hadn't even tried so we thought we had the golden opportunity, the golden sponsor, the golden upline, you name it.

I started studying how to show the plan. I am a man that wants integrity so when I say they are the number 4 ecommerce site I want to prove it. So I started to look up the stats and became very disgusted. I started digging more and more and started to realize that these people were not getting the whole story. Here were good people that don't have any business education outside of Quixtar so they do nothing but believe everything their upline tells them.

Some of the Lies / Mis-truths:

"There are no minimums or requirements"

"Quixtar is the number 4 E commerce site on hits"

"No mention of the word "Amway" or if Amway was used it was that it was "just one" of the stores in Quixtar."

"Save 30% on what you are already buying"

"Free shipping for orders over $100"- this was true but only for the Amway products and there was no separation of the partner stores from Amway.

"Writing off business trips to Orlando and other functions for their taxes"

"Shampoo and consumables are write offs on taxes as long as you show someone the plan in your house and demonstrate (show them) the products."

"The 2-5 year plan"- This part made me sick because of the 30% lie factored in but mostly because of the 2-5 year quote. Not one person in our whole group completed the plan and my sponsor had been in longer than 5 years. Even worse, our upline Diamond (Bobby Harris) was worshipped as being "FREE" since 1982 but he didn't have one Diamond under him. When I thought about that we were telling people that in 2-5 years listening to us they could be diamonds and yet not one of us had even come close to fulfilling it ourselves, not even our Diamond (20 years and never had one person complete the 2-5 year plan and the guy has the gall to keep showing it).

Anyway, I decided that I would design my own website that my group could use so that we could really be an online business. To build the business we needed to make it duplicatable and I knew that not everybody was going to be doing board presentations. However I found that I was very limited in what I could do online and I found out about Quixsource. The Quixsource people were on to something. I felt the site was much more honest and the tools to be better produced and cheaper. When I mentioned the site to my upline he told me to do nothing different than what Britt World Wide was doing. It would just bring confusion. I started to realize that the same person that wanted me to keep my business options open now wanted me to have no options. The tools that were coming out then (SOT) were geared heavily to keeping true to the BWW system, obviously because they were concerned about Quixsource or others cutting into their profits. Then came the lawsuit against Quixsource from the Corporation and I knew what was going on with the big AMOs forcing Quixtar to stop them (Quixsource) or else... I could be wrong but explain to me why a business would shut down another business for trying to help them and their distributors be successful in an honest and efficient way unless there was some outside pressure from those that would lose money (the AMO)

I started praying and researching some more and was waiting to see what IBOpro was going to do. My sponsor wanted to meet with me to see what he could do for me and that's when I told him about all this and that we were misleading people. I even showed him reports from PC Data and Business Rules. He told me that I should stop worrying about the details and get my eyes back on my Dreams. He told me that if I don't want to tell them about the sites ratings then don't use it. He said if I want to use IBOpro then I could but not to let anyone else in his organization know because then I would be messing with "His" business. He asked me if I knew who was putting all these ideas in my head and I was ready for him to say my wife or one of the Anti AmQuix websites. I told him "it was all me and my research" and he told me it was "Satan". That was the last straw and he was lucky that Satan didn't make me punch him out. I told him "how can our upline have our best interest at heart when they make more money off my tools purchase than off of my Quixtar purchases." He responded quite angrily "Who told you that?" So I had to let him know that Dexter Yager admitted that in the early 80's on a TV interview and Devos responded that it was so. And then I explained the cost of manufacturing and distribution of the tapes (I have a background in the music industry) by comparing other MLM prices of tools. (Zig Ziglar Network tapes were $0.59 for audios and $1.00 for videos)

He said "So what if they make money on the tools, they earned it and they do good things with that money and they are the ones who know what they are doing and teaching us the same. And when you get to be Platinum you can start getting a cut."

Well anyway we left the business and the hardest part was that there are several people in the group that go to our church and it is hard for me to not say anything to these people. I haven't made a big stink about it because these people are my friends and some have already left the business because of their own similar research. I just keep praying for them. Also my sponsor has an influence over my work environment and the 35 guys that work for me don't need the headaches that can come from a bad relationship there.

I am in the process of doing my taxes and as soon as I know the final numbers I will fill out the questionnaire for you.

Our upline platinum still emails us with updates and schedules and he sends it to everyone in his group instead of using a group mail program that would send it individually. I'm thinking of responding to his email to let him know what I want for the tools and using the "reply to all" so everyone in the group knows I am selling them. Maybe I'll just bring them to the next TEAM meeting or OPEN and say HI to everyone.

Oh, I couldn't afford the wholesale prices of the items when I was in so I didn't see how I could justify staying a member. I also didn't want to help them anymore with points. 30%...yeah right! 30% more, that would be the truth.

Sorry the story was so long,

Thanks Again,

Rich

Good Evening Scott,

From a Directs and above meeting,

What if: Waiting for FTC approval

New Bonus Schedule:

PV Bonus

300 3%

800 6%

1500 9%

2500 12%

4000 15%

6000 18%

7500 21%

7-11 month 23%

12 months 25%

Reasons provided by Diamond:

Waiting for FTC approval

Promote 300 PV Mentality

78% of 100 pv checks not cashed

To be consistent with International Plan

Planned reduction in pricing and increase in PV/BV

What if:

Within Two Years no Amway on any product

You can start showing the plan with 300PV Circles

What if:

Direct Tool fulfillment currently in test in Michels and Florence Group

New Bonus Schedule for Tools, Tools on automatic program which can only be cancelled by going through up line for accountability Maybe someday including even Functions

Scott,

I think this change might be in place or real close before the new fiscal year. We were told to pass this info down as far as it goes. I agree about FTC approval since that is just standard jargon. I believe the PV/BV change is fact, it is just a matter of implementation.

With all due respect, I think you plan is good but I wish they had your basic philosophy to help the new IBO become profitable. Sales are still not part of the plan since the 10 customer rule was brought up and dismissed as something the "Family" still does not understand. Frankly, layoffs or whatever, I think it will be a long time before any product offering will be close to competitive at wholesale, even for self consumption. Thus selling will continue to be an absolute business disaster. In the Covino which is under Storms organization sales is absolutely below 5% of total volume.

The plan to stop people from going to quixtar and negative sites is to directly channel people through eddinfo,ibocity or the futureofbusiness.com. I think if you belong to eddinfo and the future of business the total cost is about $30. per month. About, a 1 1/2 years ago is point that I was absolutely disgusted so I did not follow the whole web site rip off. But, I can tell you from my downline results and general cross line information it is a total waste of money.

I was told today that Don Storms and another Diamond offered to help build up, for free, the Florence business because he spent so much time helping them as President of the Board. Yet, Billy refused and had a leg collapse which kept him from going double.

Sincerely, I would be interested in a business' that you think have merit . I concur with your judgment on this one and trust me it is really a lot worse in the details than the picture you paint.

The following are stated on my powerpoint disc. The average annual earnings of the following.

Founder Platinum $74,662
Founder Emerald $79,467
Founder Diamond $ 298,000

When showing the presentation they also state that there is now a $75,000 one time cash bonus.

It's amazing how they can be so exact with the Plat. and Emer. moneys but the Diamond money is rounded to a T.

I hope this is helpful. I will try to see if I can find anymore information that might be of use to you. If you have any need for anymore info that is being falsely represented let me know, I still have a lot of up to date figures which are used in the presentations.

Thanks
Clint

thanks for your website. my wife and i have been peripherally involved in the big show now since last april. i'm pretty skeptical and ambivalent, and have sporadically made efforts to attend functions, do weekly meetings, and to get other people involved. i happen to like the products, but find that they are priced a bit high. just out of curiousity, were you once involved in all of this, then decided to put this website together, or what?

regards,

sean

I just attended a "presentation" of the Quixtar program. I was approached because my marketing and Internet skills made me a 'prime' candidate for this business. Being immersed in Internet technology, I would, of course, see the advantages of this business. I made the mistake of saying I wanted to do some research before committing - which left the door open!! Now, I'm being pursued pretty rigorously!

I'm glad I was wise enough to procrastinate though. The Presenters really do have their verbiage down to an art. All up-side, no down. And, I would like to add, never ONCE did they speak of the Amway connection. I had my suspicions though, so I 'Googled' for the relationship and found your site. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You echoed my doubts and supported them with facts. I have always immediately shut down anyone soliciting Amway to me and now I've found my out for Quixtar! I was teetering a little and being pushed hard - you saved me!!

BTW - I was rather appalled at the comments from the Pro-Quixtar IBOs. Quite slanderous, foul mouthed 'Christians' aren't they? Although how can you take the insults seriously when the grammar and spelling are so atrocious!! :-)

Thanks for the time and effort you put into your site. I'm sure you're preventing many people like myself from making a foolish mistake!!

Scott,

I want to thank you for the site that you have. I feel that any IBO that questions to this extent what they are doing or feels that they are involved in a bad situation should leave immediately and not return to the quixtar program until their questions are answered correctly. Maybe that would lessen the amount of negative impact on those that are actually making the business work. My email is not to prove to you how you are wrong or how you might be spending to much time on this subject but to thank you. My wife and I got started roughly five years ago. We did it only because of a friendship. Through the years we did spend allot of money and did recoup a small portion by filing our schedule C form towards the IRS. But through the money spent in the beginning years we have found that are business grew and our volume grew. I am thankful for the words you have written because my wife and I do tell the truth. We do not feel that Amway or quixtar has ever lied because they are the system. They make the rules and as long as the FTC agrees with what they do than organizations can either choose to participate or not. The 25% bonus is fine with us and apparently allot of others to.

Within the last three years I have formed several healthcare entities and know the cost of such expenditures. I do agree that 25% is good because the IBO does not have to worry about the infrastructure, light bills, you get the picture. The IBO has to be willing to use their time and know up front that by their time and efforts they will only receive the 25% plus bonus once they have built a profitable business. I hope you would agree that the people are whom transform a system into what it is. If Amway and/or quixtar was so illegal why is it that they have never been shut down. That should prove my point only if it proves it to me that people make or break the system. We have known that there are organizations that place the wrong message and actually tell you to say something different, but not our line of sponsorship. Some even encourage not to visit these sights but I do just to make sure that we are telling the correct story. Our business has not yet reached the platinum level but were slowly but surely getting their. I sometimes laugh at the functions because of the point you make. These people are willing to spend all they have just to belong. They should not have to do this but they do. My laughter comes from seeing that you will continue to lose allot of money if in return you do not work your business. I laugh but it is very sad. Your expenditures will be more in the beginning because I have not met a platinum within six months of registering but it is not unheard of. If IBO's are willing to lose money to feel good then that is their own, but hopefully in time they come to grips with you either will do what it takes or you will not. Wish, want, need, got. That is when it is appropriate to say, "If the Dream is big enough, then the facts don't count".

Once again, thank you for a very informative presentation. By the way, if you are not making any money from the internet, I can show you how.

RKM

Scott,

I was approached about this business opportunity a couple of weeks ago under a little misleading pretences. I was under the understanding that Microsoft and other companys had actually started this and I was interested. I went to a meeting and found out quickly what it was all about. I'm not close minded so I started doing some homework, ran across your website and came to the conclusion that this is not for me. I don't know what this SA4400 thing is, all I have is the stuff that this guy gave me to look at. I just believe in making educated decisions about my money and financial outlook and have decided that this is more of a pipedream for people than an actual business.

Mike

Ok, here goes. I am a Catholic, and I wrote the following letter to a spiritual mentor when I began to have concerns that my participation in the Britt system was compromising my faith. You could prob. just as easily plug in "Presbyterian" or "Methodist" or any other mainstream Christian denomination. Use whatever you like.

Don

-------

About five years ago, I became an Amway IBO (Independent Business Owner). I have been mildly successful, having not quite reached the Direct Distributor level yet. In September, an Internet-based sister company of Amway named Quixtar was launched. I am currently an IBO in both Amway and Quixtar. I do not have any problem with either the Amway or Quixtar business per se. I think they are fine businesses that are compatible with the Gospel. However, I do have some concerns with our business support company, Britt Worldwide.

About 90% of all Amway/Quixtar IBOs are supported by the companies founded by either Dexter Yager or Bill Britt. (Dexter founded his system first and then Bill split off from Dexter.) The Yager/Britt Systems produce training materials and organize training functions. The best way I can communicate to you the concerns I have about the Yager/Britt Systems is to relate to you how I became acquainted with the Britt System after signing on as an IBO (I think my experience is typical).

After signing up, my sponsor told me that we have a meeting every Tuesday night at the local Hilton where the marketing plan is shown to prospects. After going to my first meeting, my sponsor informed me that there is a second meeting—an "Attitude" or training session—so I stayed for it. The Attitude is supposed to end by 11 p.m. Then my sponsor informed me that there is a Night Owl, where you eat pizza and IBOs give testimonies about the good that the business has done for them. The Night Owl is supposed to last until 1 a.m., but frequently lasts until 2 or 3 a.m. (I remember one on a more "advanced level" that lasted until 4:30 a.m.)

Once you get a distance group going, it becomes even more demanding on your time. I have a distance group in New Bern, NC, about a 2-hour and 15-minute drive from my home in Raleigh. About once a month, I go down there to support my group for their Open meeting at is it is called, and I stay for the Attitude and Night Owl since this is what is expected of me. I leave New Bern at 1:00 a.m. at the earliest and get home at 3:15 a.m.

In addition to the weekly meeting, you are expected to attend:

• Team Meetings—on monthly to bi-monthly basis. Usually are on a Saturday 7–11 p.m., followed by a Night Owl.
• Regional Seminars or Rallies. Take place 3–4 times per year, and like the Team Meetings are on Saturday 7–11 p.m. Ditto Night Owl.
• Diamond Attitudes—3-hr teaching session from a Diamond on a weekday night 2–3 times per year. Ditto Night Owl.
• Covered Dishes—also called Nuts & Bolts. Scheduled as needed in people’s homes, whenever there has been growth and new IBOs need to be indoctrinated into the basics. One hour socializing, 2 hours teaching. Hopefully, you are having a lot of growth so there will be several of these per year. Night Owl not common with this.
• Weekend-long major functions—there are 4 of these annually. Schedule is: Friday 7–12 p.m. teaching, and Night Owl. Saturday 9–2 p.m. teaching, 2–7 p.m. free, 7–12 p.m. teaching, and Night Owl. Sunday morning optional non-denominational worship service, 1–5 p.m. teaching.
• If you are a Direct or above, you also have to go to "Go Diamond Weekend."

In all of these functions, the speakers speak continuously. There is no formal break. You just have to get up as needed. As you can see, there is never a month that does not have at least one function of some type besides the weekly meetings.

After being in the business a while, it becomes clear that Dexter and Bill are Protestant Evangelical Christians who maintain that Amway is a "Biblical" business. I recall my first weekend function and Sunday morning. It was in Knoxville, TN, and due to my tiredness, I didn’t go to Mass (poor excuse, I realize). My wife and I, in an ecumenical spirit, decided to go to the Britt service. We saw Bill Britt conduct a very powerful service. He held an altar call, and at least a third of the people in the Coliseum went forward to accept Jesus as their Savior. Perhaps it was our lack of sleep, but we were very touched by this, and we saw the Amway business as a way to lead people to Christ. Indeed, over the past 5 years, I have seen at least a dozen people in my group go forward on Sunday morning services and get saved, including some of our closest friends. For a while, my wife and I were considering this business a ministry.

The Britt System business ethic can be summed up in what is called the "8 Team Player Steps":

1. Show the Plan 3–5 times per week.
2. 100% use of Amway products.
3. Develop 10 retail customers.
4. Be on S.O.T. (Standing Order Tape of the Week) and listen to tapes from the tape list daily.
5. Read a minimum of 15 minutes daily in a book from the book list.
6. Attend all functions.
7. Be accountable to your upline.
8. Be teachable.

Notice #4 & #5 above. The number of people in your group who are on S.O.T. is a measure of your success as a leader. The tapes are mostly motivational talks that have been recorded at the major functions. Each tape costs $6.60 with shipping and tax and about every 6^th week you get a double tape set ($13.20). We encourage our IBOs to make additional tape and book purchases. The book list contains a number of books that are strictly religious in nature, i.e., they’re not just books like Norman Vincent Peale’s which have a Christian slant (these are on the list, too). Also, it is promoted that distributors who are serious about their business will get on Amvox, a voice messaging system, so that they can receive motivational messages from their upline. This is an additional $10–18/month.

I have been having doubts about the Britt System in two areas. The first has to do with excess (is this excessive or just ordinary zeal?), and the second relates to my faith. I know that in some ways my Christian faith has deepened since being involved with the Britt System, primarily due to the association with strong Christian men and women and to the books I have read from the reading list. For example, I don’t find speaking in tongues so strange any more (although I don’t personally have this gift). On the other hand, my commitments to the business have tended to draw me away from participating in Catholic Church life.

--------------

His reply was that the System I described, to quote this prominent Catholic lay leader, was a "taxation of human freedom."

I appreciate the fact that there is a site such as yours that presents the negative aspects of the business that I am currently involved in without being completely derogatory. Too many sites are quick to point out the negative without conceding the positive aspects of such a business.

The only reason I still have faith in this business is that I have seen it work for people from the begining. A very close friend of mine was recently able to retire from her job at the age of thirty because of the success that she and her husband have realized as Platinum IBO's. He, of course, still works but has afforded his wife the opportunity to stay home with their 2 children. He has never told me that I could do what he has done in 2 to 5 years. In fact it took him close to 11 years to get to the point he is at now. He has spent less than 15 hours a week working on his business and has great success doing it. Even if I could accomplish that goal, I feel that I would have spent my time well.

Whenever I contact people for possible selection to the team of IBO's to which I am a member, I always ensure them that this is a secondary source of income in addition to what they are now doing. I work with a team that institutes a more professional and business-oriented system than any other in the Amway/Quixtar system. I say this from experience, having been a member of two other Amway organizations. Under the leadership of Diamond Distributor Tom Joachim, T&E International has seen the fastest growth of any other group over the past year. Tom insists that the Business be kept in perspective at all times and that candidates for selection to the team be informed that they are entering a business and not being hired as salesman. We have a dress code that is strictly adhered to at our business meetings and a list of persons being considered for selection to the team at the doors. This ensures that the people attending the meetings have been preselected by members of our team and are not just some yahoo walking in off the streets.

This business opportunity is real and, as long as it is kept in perspective, can be very beneficial to anyone seeking to achieve reasonable financial goals.

I thank you for your knowledge and research and hope that as the new year progresses, we will be able to provide you with more positive results to outweigh the negative aspects, which incidentally are common of any business.

Thank you,

Vince

Scott,

My name is Scott Nelson and I am a second generation Platinum direct. My parents are personally sponsored by Dexter and Birdie Yager. I can email you numerous pictures to prove this. My parents were Dexter Yagers double diamond leg. I have been around the Am/Quix business Since 1969 and I have all the facts and love disputing them. I would love for you to post our discussion. Knowing that you will try to make a mockery of it. First off I do not have a college education and can't type or spell real well. I do own 2 other businesses besides Am/Quix.

Jeff Yager flies into my home town of Rockford, Il. every other month, on average on his own money and twice this last year Dexter Yager flew in his personal jet to help me. Believe it or not they DID NOT CHARGE ME A DIME! I am sure it cost him several thousand of dollars, as he had both of his pilots with him. So I would like to dispute your the BIG PINS CHarge for their help and make money off the functions. The meeting was at my parents house and there was no charge at the door. So noone was charged and noone made money off this meeting. I know it may shock you, but Jeff and Dexter Yager are still building the business with the same principals they started with.

I have spoke at several major functions as a second Generation direct. I council directly with my Dad, Jeff and Dexter Yager. There isn't a Yager Diamond out there who I do not know and they know me personally.

The Amway business has changed our families life. My Dad was a paint store owner when he got into Amway in 1969. He live in a 900 square foot house and was working 70+ hourss a week. He too is on a few tapes and you can hear his story.

The point is that our family has owned our own plane, Motorhome and traveled around the Country alife of freedom/ My parents now live in a 8,000 square foot house on 20 acres with a private 5 acre lake. The only debt I have is mortage on my house.

Disputes I would like to make:

1. When Dexter and Birdie came into help me they said we needed to retail. They always have. Dexter said for years and still says, the business is like rowing a boat. One oar is for sponsoring and one oar is for retailing. If you have just one oar in the water you will go in circles. You must have both oars in the water. When you have an Organzation as large as he does he can't and doesn't controll what his downline say or do. So I take offense when you say the Yager Organzation doesn't promote retail. I am in his personal group. I have several tapes Of Cherry Meadows and Effie Reid and Toby Hale, talking about retailing to make money. Remember they all work with Dexter Personally too. To put it point blank your facts are distorted. I feel bad you only went to one function and you build your site without actually talking to any Diamonds, while you were in.

2.The second dispute is the tool business. Who cares if people are makin money on the tapes? What do you think a hand ful of them got together and said we make money on the tools and Nobody else will? That is how your site makes it sound. Your site also contradicts itself: Example: You say people promote the tapes and are screwing people by doing so, Yet in your letter to Louie Carillo you say Louie I have a better plan you big pins need to train your people. In case you wonder I learned how to show the plan from a tape.

I learned how to do a followup from a tape from your former claimed to be upline. the tape was meeeting after the meeting. I learned the importance of driving width from 2 different tapes and the importance of depth from another tape. They do work and give you ideas if you apply them! If you email Louie tell him Scott Nelson says Hello. Attitude and Motovation is a key succes ingriedent of any business. Give you an example: I ordered a few months ago a Real Estate tape program off the t.v. Carlton Sheets program. I paid over 150.00 for a few tapes and a few videos. I haven't had the time to go threw it yet. What Should I get mad at Carlton and say he made money on the tapes and makes money off his plan. I haven't yet So I need to write a web page and say Carlton Sheets screwed me? NOPE it isn't Carlton Sheets fault it's mine for not reading and applying it yet. What is going to happen when I spend hours looking for Real Estate to buy and burn my gas up to find maybe 1 out 25 homes to buy. Should I blame the real estate program for wasting my time and burning my gas up? No it's part of being in business for yourself.

The real problem here is many AMericans have a job, Socialism mentality. People want everyone to take care of them. The United States Government is robbing from the rich and giving to the poor. Taking away incentives to succeed by taxing the workers and giving to the non-workers. You probably work for a Union correct? MAking more per hour doing that? Don't you have the guts to start your own business in the field you claim to be so good at? Just curious how much time do you waste of your employeers on the clock? Have you ever stole any tools, paper or pens from your work? Been late to work? Called in sick when you weren't? Left early and had some one punch you out later? Over sleep.. Fight or ask for a raise? Take an longer lunch then you were suppose too? Come back from break a few minutes late? The facts are of the average working man.. that they have done one of this things and if you say No to all my questions then you are a liar and if you say yes than you have screwed your employeer now should I write a site about you? So your boss can see?

Scott Nelson Platinum Ibo been around since Dexter Yager was a diamond p.s make sure if you decide to post this that you put my working questions in. p.s.s. I can contest the pyramid scheme and Occult facts too. In another email if you would like.

Scott -

Thanks for the reply. I'll fill out the survey asap. Unfortuantely, the tapes are now consigned to the local energy to waste plant! If I do come across any more - and I'm sure there are some hidden! - I will send them along. Over the course of the five years we spent approx. $12,000 cdn inclusive of travel.

In regard to the products, I very much like many of them. Unfortunately, we live in a small community and to purchase them would mean dealing with our previous sponsors and/or upline. To them I'm still the devil incarnate!

Suffice it to say, the corporation and the products are good. It was the "tool" system, and the lack of valid information that made me nuts!

Keep up the good work.

Marilee

Scott - Thank you for your insights to the AmQuix business. I have a BSME from Iowa State University and am 3/4 way through an MBA program. The 'plan' was shown to me by an Emerald after I had shown interest via an entrepreneurship class. I was pumped, ready to rock and roll and was thrilled with the prospect that I could generate passive income and spend more time with my wife and kids through the AmQuix business. I was even more thrilled to be given the opportunity to help others who may have been in need.

I had lots of questions concerning the mechanics of the business and how the real numbers worked. My potential uplines were not interested in addressing these issues and kept handing me tapes to listen to. I loved the tapes and the dream building, but, when the rubber meets the road, the products were overpriced. My wife and I stated this fact at the meeting and the Emerald said that some products are priced higher, some are lower, but on average they are at a 30% discount. Our price study reflected approx. 40% increase similar to yours. Unbelievable how anyone with good conscience can sell increased debt to friends and neighbors.

Thank goodness that I found your site before I went in. I shudder to think that I could have really done some damage to my reputation and morals by participating in the business.

I am still looking for opportunities to expand my income to ensure college education for the kids and comfortable early retirements. I consider my wife and I Level 4 investors as outlined in 'Cashflow Quadrant, by Kiyosaki' and realize the benefit of long term growth and delayed gratification. If you have any insights, I would be happy to hear them.

Isn't it interesting to know that Kiyosaki supports the Amway business in the first set of tapes and yet you have some very relevant quotes from him stating that you have to know how to read the numbers? Thank you for cranking the numbers I so much needed to see.

Paul

Scott - I do not have an electronic version but here are some examples of the products we used:

Diapers - AmQuix = $11.96 for 48

Wal-mart = $12.97 for 84 (with 15month old twins at home, this is 80% of our Wal-Mart bill)

Baby Wipes - AmQuix = $19.80 for 6 packs ($3.30 ea)

Aldis = $1.69 each

Toilet Paper - AmQuix = $2.16 for 4 pack

Aldis = $0.89 for 4 pack

Cereal - AmQuix = $23.75 for 6 boxes ($3.96 ea)

We never need to pay more than $2 / 16oz box at Aldis or Hy-Vee

Peanut Butter - AmQuix = $20.90 for 6 28oz jars ($0.12/oz)

Aldis = $1.19 for 18oz ($0.07/oz)

(our 4 year old loves the stuff)

Our friends are just as cost concious if not more so than we are and we could not Show The Plan without a guilty heart. There we would be, showing our friends how to go further into debt when we would know that the products weren't really worth the extra $.

Once again, I have an open ear to listen to sensible opportunities. I wouldn't mind getting into a group of motivated, ambitious people to promote a quality product at a fair price, I just don't think that AmQuix has the proper model to do so ethically.

I can't help but think that Wal-mart.com and Hy-Vee.com with home delivery are coming soon (in bigger cities they are already present). Having the home delivery from those sites would be worth and extra 5% in the price to me at this point in my life.

Paul

Scott,

Great site...good comments and a real good analysis of the actual Amway business and the amount of time and money it takes to operate it annually. I too have an Amway story like most of your visitors....

In 1994, my wife and I were approached by a Doctor friend of ours and we were shown "the plan". Needless to say, I was pretty excited, but skeptical. A few weeks later, at a "function" we met their sponsors, one of the owners of a local racquetball and fitness club we worked out at, and his wife; I believe they were 2500 Pins. I had always had a good relationship with this man and for this letter, I will call him Mr. W to protect his name (He was one of the top 10 rated racquetball players in the world at one time)

I also met his sponsor, an insurance sales person and his wife who were 4000 Pins at the time.

After 12 years in the Graphic design industry, the last few years as a business owner, I had just gotten out of bad partnership(I had a Graphic design and printing company)and was "looking". I enjoyed the meeting but wanted more info about the actual business. At the meeting the speakers said "Once this business goes from your head to your heart, you will succeed".

All that meant to me was "Once you were passionate about what you were selling, you can sell more". This is true with anything you do, so at the time, it made sense. I did not realize it meant "Once you did not question the upline, and once you begin to do ANYTHING we tell you to do, we will help you, and spoon you people and really help build your business."

The next meeting I went to was at Glen and Joya Bakers house in Anaheim Hills, CA. It was a nuts and bolts. I was told be my sponsor, if you want to build the business, and want more in depth business info, go to this and you will see it is a real opportunity.

I listened, and my wife and I went to the nuts and bolts meeting. There was an actual business building process and methodology rolled out. I could relate to it, and I thought man if all I have to do is what they showed, I will kill this thing! Well the fact was they did not disclose all of the facts.

My wife and I signed up right away. We were hard core. We started "Amvox" and "standing order", because we were told that is what it meant to really be hard core and dedicated. All of the Amguilt was laid on us continually about "buying from our own store" and only using Amway products and buying only from Amway catalogs. I was foolish, I did not do price comparisons, as I should have and did not really take the time to analyze the expenses. Being a former business owner once before, I just assumed this was regular operating expenses, and everything would be OK once I hit "Ruby".

I started showing the plan a couple times a week and within 4 months, we were 1000 Pins. The first time I walked the stage, it was great...I thought "This business is cake, 4000Pin here we come!! 2 months later we were back down to 300pv. Only 1 of the 5 people I signed up in 4 months was still active. Was I discouraged, no...I heard that happening on the tapes, so It did not bother me. By that time I had spent hundreds on tapes and books, and I was prospecting for my business every day. It was easy for me to do because I had gotten out of the graphic field and went into sales (So I could find more prospects quicker).I was showing the plan, and doing 2 steps (The private Franchising presentation which was a mini plan 5+ times a week.) I was prospecting "up". You know the diamonds will tell you that you are wasting time if you are talking to people at "your" level...talk to really sharp professional people like Doctors, Lawyers, etc...

That is what I did, I had no fear...I would walk into a Doctor's office and leave my business card with his manager, and set an appointment to meet with him to discuss a "financial opportunity". Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

I showed the plan to these people and even had a few interested. I was so brain washed that when my Emerald said he would show the plan to my prospects, (who was a very successful dentist) and then never followed up with him when HE called the emerald, I made excuses for him like "Oh they are really busy, and he is out of town, etc..."

That should have been my first and last wake up call but it wasn't...Man was I thick headed. I thought like most Amway distributors do: Anyone that says "no" is crazy or just does not "get it", and has the wrong "Alignment" in their life.

We spent 3 years in Amway, I showed 200+ Plans for myself and another 50+ plans for my downline and gave dozens of nuts and bolts in that time period. We had legs across 4 states, but we only maxed out at 2400pv.

Here is why:

My upline lied. Period, there is no other reason for it. Let me explain: I had two 1000 pin legs at one time, and another 300pv leg, and I was supporting all of them myself, which leaves very little time for my own plan showing. Every couple in my upline had promised to support our group, and help me build these businesses; Our sponsors who were 4000 pins, My Silver Direct, Mr and Mrs. W (Who are now divorced and out of the business, because of the business), My Ruby (Mr. and Mrs W sponsors), and Glen and Joya Baker(who at the end of our 3 years in the biz were EDC), had ALL promised these groups, to their faces, at major functions, that they would fly to their state and help them show plans and keep the momentum going. Well, it took 8 months for Glen Baker to come out and show a plan. By that time, our 2 1000 Pin legs had fallen and we were only getting 1200pv consistantly out of the two 1000pv groups.

I was pissed. My wife and I had dedicated our lives to this business for 3 years, sponsored 16+ people personally, had over 35 people in our group at one time, listened to all of the promises, and got screwed. When we went off standing order in 1997, my Ruby called, and I told him that I did not believe the lies anymore. I called him to the carpet and told him he lied to my people and I was not going to show the plan and sponsor anymore people unless I got support. He said he would come out right away, and it took another 6 weeks for him to show up. When he did, my wife was pregnant,

so I still had motivation to build the business, but I did not want to make this putz any more money, so I called Glen Baker and told him I wanted out of my Ruby's group.

He asked me why and when I told him about the lousey support and all of the false promises, he did take responsibilty and said that it was his fault, and that they direct and ruby were telling him we were being supported, and basically lieing to him as well. He was not making excuses, he was accepting responsibility, but it was too much water under the bridge.

I told him I was going inactive, and that if I ever got back in, I wanted to be personally sponsored by him. He said that was OK with him...gee...funny huh?

When I went inactive, my Ruby flew out and gave one more plan for one of my groups, and that was the last they saw of him...they received no more support at all, so all of my people bailed out within 6 months. It was a shame, I had people that made 100k a year plus in their professions in my group...these people could have been and actually thought they would be diamonds...what a waste.

We stopped our Amway business in January of 1998 after spending $35,000 over 3 years on books, tapes, airfare, functions, dining out, showing the plan, gas, printing, shipping, etc...(we half of it on Credit Cards, like most of the distributors do)and only made a total of $3890. from our PV checks in 3 years. So, we lost over $31,000.

I could have spent that $31k getting my MBA (Which is what I am currently doing) and it would have actually given me something tangible. Lets face it, all businesses are a risk, but I still list that I was a co-founder of a graphics company on my resume and it gets me more money and a better title at a JOB, and if you are starting a business, and trying to get funding, it looks great...you can't put that you had an Amway business on your resume for fear of being laughed out of the interview!

I have been in corporate technology sales now for over 5 years, and make 100k+ a year. I work 45-50 hours a week, my wife does not work and we have very little debt. I have written 2 business plans and am seeking VC money right now for one of those plans.

After my Amway experience, I realize, I am a successful husband, father, and business man, despite what any "Amroid" thinks.

Mark

Dear Scott,

I have to ask what is your educational background? You are very well spoken, obviously very bright, and write very well. Have you thought about public speaking? There is a hidden teacher in you, waiting to get out. I have not ever been involved with Amway. I am deeply fascinated with it, from an anthropological or sociological standpoint. I know people involved, and I stand back in amazement how smart people cannot see the obvious manipulations. The use of religion, and conservatism as a means of control are brilliant.
You website is excellent. I particularly like the page on "What Else is There?" I have just recently taken interest in personal finance, and investing. I am angry that I was allowed to escape highschool without thoroughly understanding compound interest. We learned relatively early, but I still look at my gen X peers, with frustration that they will not even do an employee match for their 401K plans. Society needs people to sing the praises of financial planning. We need to stop the young adult from making big financial mistakes that will take years to correct.

Good luck to you, and your future. I wish you all the best.

Mary Ellen

Scott, thanks for putting things into perspective, I have been involved in the Amway organization twice before, I have been recently prospected and found your site to be extremely helpful in " discouraging" any future contacts from this organization. I will say though that I was profitable in my endeavors previously... to the tune of 20 plus retail customers a month, my "upline" strongly discouraged this because of its lack of duplication, what a contradiction the tapes say run with your strengths and not your weaknesses.

With this attitude it was a turn off, due to the reason that it was my business, not my uplines, but due to Diamond attitude I was forced to fit a mold that was very undesirable to me again Thank you for a great site, I'm sure I will be back frequently

Michael

What scares me the most is the fact that the unknowing victim goes to an Amway meeting, listens to 2 hours of "life changing thoughts" from some idiot upstage who does not even sell Amway but sells "tools", and the victim leaves the meeting buying more tapes. Multiply this effort by a thousand tapes every night and you just made $7000+. Just from a seminar and not a function. Not to mention the month between the seminars with those four meetings at hotels where more unsuspecting people buy into the lies on tape system (which is what it should be called).

The example above clearly shows that Amway is almost like a cult, not a bad one, but a mildly bad one. If compared to Jonestown being a 10, I would probably say Amway and including independent tape selling ditributors is around a 4 or 5. The whole tapes selling thing and the seminars seems like an ill fated industry. It would probably completely fall apart if Amway didn't have any meeting at all for more than three months . I could almost compare Amway to a Hurricane. As soon as it hits land and runs out of water it dies out reaLLY FAST. Water as being the new recruits.

I know Amway almost too well and some of the things about my experiences in Amway ring around in my head like a vietnam war flashback. I say that with laughing so its not a big deal to me anymore. But beware, Amway sucks and if you know nothing about money, Amway sucks money up even faster. Although I can say that now I do have some business and marketing experience. Basically don't operate like Amway and you can sleep easy.

Andrew

Scott,

Thanks for the reply.

I have spent a few hours at your site now and I have a few comments for you to consider.

It is obvious that you have spent considerable time building this site. My opinion of your work is that it is pretty professional. I’m sure you believe what you say on your site, and that you are providing a valuable service. Although you post some items that classify as "positive" to the Quixtar opportunity, I hope you would agree that your intent is primarily to persuade people away from the opportunity. Again I assume it’s because you really believe it’s a bad investment of both time and money. Please confirm if I am on the mark with the following points that I would say describe your position at a high level:

1. It’s a negative sum game - overall more people lose than win. 2. Successful people in the business are primarily dishonest when presenting the "plan" and "selling" the opportunity. 3. The products are generally priced higher than Wal-Mart and other discount shopping stores, and are therefore a bad choice and a waste of money. 4. Due to the high cost of the business tools, seminars, tapes and conventions, most people spend more money than they make. 5. IBO’s need to sell in order to make money overall, and most of them don’t want to sell, so they will ultimately fail. 6. It’s wrong for the upline to make a substantial amount of money on the "system".

I’m pro Quixtar. I agree with many of your points, and I really think you are doing an overall good job of educating people about the "details" of the business opportunity - items that are often not discussed or not explained early on in the prospecting stage, and maybe not even taught at all in some lines of sponsorship. I have my own opinions and suggestions in this area, and I would like to get into some of my ideas with you if you choose to engage in a professional debate with me.

I would add that I think you have overestimated the costs of the Entire Organization in your Negative Sum Game page, and have speculated a little too much on other negative aspects of the business. Again, I agree with a lot of what you say – even much of what you speculate about, although I think there are many positive aspects which are not included in your site.

If a person is pro-Quixtar, and is looking for some in-depth information about the opportunity, they can find a wealth of information throughout your site. It's unfortunate that there aren't some better replies shedding positive responses to so many of the negative items. I visited your site a year ago, as a new IBO, and I found it very educational. It actually helped me become more interested in the business as I was able to work through many of the issues and found the truth, which lies somewhere between the general content of your site, and the "glossy sales plan" that we first see as a prospect.

What prompts me to write to you is that I received a link to your site from an IBO who signed up about a year ago, and didn't really put much effort into "building" the business, but she did some of her own research instead. Among the things she found was your site, which she ranked as high on her list of reasons for choosing not to renew. I'm not sure if you can understand this, but from a personal financial standpoint - losing this one IBO is a very minor financial setback for me personally. And she did not invest more than a few hundred dollars either. My real problem with this situation is that I know I can teach her the finer points of how this business "really" works, and what's good AND bad about it - and that she like many other people who either say no, or say yes but don't put in much (or any) effort, could really benefit (financially as well as emotionally) from doing this correctly. Sadly, she and probably many others look for information, and find your site, which includes no real compelling responses to all of the negative information.

It’s a little disappointing to see that in general you take the "far" negative stance on most of the issues. It’s really disappointing to read all of the negative AND positive-Quixtar email comments from both those who say no to the opportunity as well as the IBO’s who have less than professional things to say.

I don’t really have a problem with you posting these comments, but from a positive viewpoint, I see many flaws in those negative entries. I am a detail oriented person, and am fairly well educated in the compensation plan side of the business as well as the "system" methodology. As I read most of the negative entries my response to most of them would be that they have a valid concern, and it’s worth talking about. As a mentor and teacher in this business, I would explain the details and/or recommend that they spend some time learning and finding answers to their questions and concerns (without spending much, if any, money). I’m really surprised that anyone would spend more than a few hundred dollars on this, or any, opportunity unless they were 1) very committed to building the business and willing to invest time and money now for future profits, or 2) wealthy enough to invest a few thousand dollars without being worried about whether it pays off or not. I think there are plenty of people who have the money, and are willing to throw some at an opportunity and see what happens. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who shouldn’t spend that kind of money before they understand what they are doing, but they do it anyway.

I have much more I would like to review with you, but I’m interested in your response to my 6 points above. Have I left out any other "key" objections you have regarding Quixtar?

I don’t find any really insightful responses to your attempts to debate the economic issues with the other IBO's who appear on your site. I enjoyed the dialogue with Louie Carrillo very much. Having listened to many of his tapes, if it’s not the real deal, it was done by a pretty good imposter. I know you wanted to have him debate you more on the details and financial issues, and I agree he didn’t really answer your questions. I saw a few other instances where you asked some detailed questions and didn’t get a straight answer. I can’t speak from Diamond level experience, but I think I can debate some of these issues from a positive position and I hope we can exchange comments.

I don’t really expect to change your mind overall, although I think that if you can be turned, you could become a powerful ally. (I hope you appreciate the Star Wars analogy. I’m not really a nerd, but I’m a Star Wars fan and I have found many meaningful comments in the series – I’ll share more with you later). But I do expect you to be fair, and I think I am approaching this business in an honest, legal, ethical, way with a strong emphasis on education (including a wealth of FREE information for both IBO's and prospects alike). I also have some ideas regarding your New Plan and the System that I think would be good topics for future correspondence.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely, Patrick

Dear Scott,

I respect you for the way you are presenting this much needed exposure. We were trying to make a better life for our family and others while truly believing in it. The facts make the truth hurt when it is exposed. Amway should no doubt make a web site with all the numbers and facts that are in question once and for all. This feeling of deception and shady tactics must stop or Quixstar/Amway-(whatever it is called), will be history for sure.

I think the big pins never had the "dream" about the internet exposing the nightmare side of the dream. Good work Scott!

I know any distributor, (Who is open minded and looking), past or present, will no doubt gain a sense of reality when they look at your web site. "I know, because it gave me a check-up from the neck-up".

Thank You!

Paul

Dear Scott,

There's been volumes of stories and material about Amway / Quixtar on the web in the last few years, but I've never felt any particular need to add my own two cents, until yesterday when I jumped on your site and read your correspondence with Louie Carrillo and Gary Wilcox.

These conversations were especially interesting because I'm personally very familiar with Louie and his line of sponsorship; the first tape I ever purchased as a distributor was a tape by Louie, one called "Forks in the Road" from 1991.

Both Louie and Gary criticized you for destroying an opportunity without offering an alternative. Well, I suppose you could suggest some specific business people should get into, but to do that would be to miss a larger point which I'd like to address.

My observation over the last ten years, of both myself and many other successful people, is this:

I truly believe that if there is a success formula, this is it. I believe it is a much better formula than "think positive" or "build the Amway business" or "Get an engineering degree at MIT" or "Start a Dot Com and launch an IPO." It is simple yet profound.

I put about seven years of serious effort into my Amway distributorship, and it was a mostly unfruitful endeavor. I don't regret the experience – it taught me many unique and valuable things – but in retrospect, there are some basic truths which ultimately caused me to pursue other avenues.

The entire Amway business is built on the premise that an unlimited number of people can apply a single success formula and experience financial success. But aside from the oft-talked about saturation issue, there is a fundamental problem with this. It assumes that people can fully express their individuality within the context of showing the plan, building relationships, and speaking to groups.

This is not true. People's talents and uniqueness are as varied as the fish in the ocean. There are technicians, artists, musicians, caregivers, financial analysts, authors, mechanics, cooks and poets. Many who build the Amway business will put their unique talents on the shelf and try to be like Dexter Yager instead.

I'd like to point out that the "superstars" in the Amway business, Louie Carrillo being one of them, do find an excellent match between their individuality and the business. Not that it doesn't take a lot of work to refine that uniqueness, but make no mistake that Amway is, above all, a personality driven business. The unique contribution that Dexter Yager or Bill & Peggy Florence or Louie & Kathy Carillo bring to the business is their flamboyant personalities – it's not their ability to teach you how to make a phone call or draw circles. The business is an ideal medium for some people to express themselves, and they meet a need which is felt by those who buy their tapes and go to their seminars. When you buy a tape, above all you are buying personality, even though you may tell yourself you are buying information.

Ten years ago, "entrepreneurship" was something for people who had money to risk. If people wanted to start an inexpensive home business, there were certainly many opportunities to do that, but they weren't very obvious. MLM was especially hot at that time, and there are many good reasons why.

The Internet has changed all of that, and created an unprecedented surge in new opportunities. Of course there are also lots of scams, but there is no better medium through which one can effectively communicate with people who have unique wants and needs, and offer them your own unique solutions, than the Net. It is now possible to run a home based business which serves the needs of a very specific, very targeted group of people, using your knowledge and ability, with very little overhead and up front expense. The largest expense has already been made: your own experience and knowledge on a particular topic.

To say that Scott Larsen's effort to inform people about the facts of Amway business equates to "dream stealing" is to assume that everyone needs a cookie-cutter success formula in order to not be an aimless employee drone for the rest of their life. There is truth to this – most people are mediocre, and lack the confidence to pursue their dreams. And perhaps the greatest thing that the Amway business does for people is light a fire under them and encourage them to think big. But with that message comes an equally strong message that Amway is the only way, and that to quit the Amway business is to permanently abandon all hopes and dreams. This is what is implied by those who are criticizing you.

I as much as anyone would like to see some of the problems in the Amway business cleaned up, and for the business to live up to its ideals. But I would also like to encourage everyone who gets involved in turn-key business opportunities to honestly ask themselves: "Does this capitalize on my God-given talents and natural interests? Does it help me find unmet needs and satisfy them, or am I trying to sell people what I think they need, or what I think they should need?

For me, this change in thinking – when I stopped trying to be what others told me I "should" be, and when I stopped selling what people "should" want – this "new" definition of success has nearly tripled my income and led to many satisfying new endeavors. I believe others will make the same discovery.

Sincerely,

Perry

Scott

I have reviewed your site and I think that it is a good site for people that are afraid to get involved in MLMS to talk themselves out of a good thing. Before I got involved with BWW I also did my home work by looking at sites like yours and the ones that gave the more possitive outlook on networkmarketing bussiness.There was even a point I showed the guy that wanted to spouncer me these negitive websites( which quit the business). Just like everyone else I had to make a decision. I could either think for myself or allow the people that failed at probly everything they have attempted pull me down with them.

I allso thought to myself, the worst I could do is attempt to do all the things that the people that were making money in this thing were doing and see for myself if it actully would work for me. The truth behind success breeds success myth.

I have been in business for a year and three months. My profession is in the recruiting field were I had a comfortable lifestyle.

The Dream as you call it is not what got me interested it wasn't even the money. I wasn't sure if any of it was actully true. what got me interested is that I saw this as a challenge.

In six months I had grown my business to a level were I had replaced my wifes income. in the next six months after that I had replaced my income. The only reason I was able to do that is because of the determination I had and the information I gatherd from the tools and assiciation you talked so negitivaly about.

The other big factor that has helped me is that I talked to the right people. I was not afraid to take my prospects to websites like yours and ask them if they were ready to take the challange. some said your website made allot of sense some said they were ready. I was looking for the ones that were ready. Which two of them went over last month.

The internet is the biggest highway for information both negitve and possitive; its up to the indiviual to make the choice if they want to take the blue pill or the red pill and see how deep the rabbit hole gets.

IM glad that you have dedicated your life to gathering information on the negitive outllook of things so that ingnoant people can have guys like you help other people that can think for themself to become successful at accomplishing more challenges. I will countinue to use your website in all my evdevors to weed out the wrong people. I think that you would have been a Diamond in this type of business if you would have put the same effort in gathering this information on ways to make it work for you. Like I tell everyone that fails,( its not for everyone).

However I do have a great Suggestion.

I think you need to put up a profile of yourself like what your profession is and the kind of money you make so these people will know who they are taking advice from. Include how long you were in the business and the kind of activities you did to become a success also.

Please dedicate some time to the negitive side of websites like etrade and ebay so that I can have some other challenges to take.

Please don't be afraid to post this on your website in a place where everyone can see it, perferably on your opening page.

Thanks again for taking your time to create this site, I have added it to my favorites for quick access. I wish you the best in all your endevors.

Phil

Hi Scott,

I enjoyed the time I spent on your site and found it very helpfull. I am a brand new IBO ready to go Diamond. I realize that is a lofty goal and for most unachievable but heck it can't hurt to dream big. While doing your ananlysis is there anyway to go Diamond following the rules of a legal, ethical, and profitable business for me and my downline without changing the plan? If not my feelings will be quite different and I will use my $100 to buy my own product, listen to some good PMA tapes, and read some books. I apprecaite your hard work on the site.

Tom

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your reply. I can see that you obviously are concerned about making a reasonably fair analysis of the business, so if any of my prospects for the business oppourtunity are skeptical after I show them the plan, I may just send them to your site, and if they are still keen after that, they will do it. As I may have mentioned earlier as well, your site seems to be the best around in the skeptics corner for this business, as you encourage people to take a good look at what they are getting into, and tell them to research it themselves, not just take your (or anyone else's) word for it.

Anyhow, I have set some goals for the business for this year. When he was in NZ for the America's Cup 2000, Rich deVos urged people to "go out and get 100 customers", so I intend to pursue that goal. I also want to build a solid downline organisation, teaching them both the retail as well as the sponsoring sides of the business. You see, for my long term survival if I want to go Diamond and beyond, I must have my system set up so that everyone can make a profit, even if they have no downline. Does that mean that the tools will be available for free? NO! But it means that as my organisation becomes larger I should be able to steadily reduce the cost (to the IBO using economies of scale) of the support system.

On the aspect of tools money, I am happy for an IBO who speaks on a tape to collect royalties on the sale of those tapes, especially if the purchaser is not in their downline. However, the potential for conflict of interest exists when upline are paid from the support system, irrespective of whether or not their downline succeed. My business definition is one of 'personally touching people', but by providing a customised service so they don't have to go to the supermarket to hunt for consumable goods, not by selling motivation. I can only win when I help my downline to win- but they must also choose to win.

Anyhow, I'm out of time. I'd love to keep in touch with you and tell you how things progress over the year.

Live with PASSION!

Sean

Hi, I really like your analysis of Amway. At one time, I was seriously thinking of working for Amway, but my father talked me out of it. You provided wonderful informations. Now there are serveral other MLM companies similar to Amway. Would you know where would I get more infor (like yours) about the other companies? Aloha, Sherry

Hi Scott,

He is two levels above us, but it was he who got us really involved in Amway. We had a lot of contact with him, especially by email. I have a bunch of his tapes, but none of an open meeting -- at least I don't think we have. I can check for you.

I have been told that when Louie shows the plan he gets 90% signup (could be propaganda....). He says "I'd like to sign you up tonight" and they just fall at his feet. he is good at "Building the dream". He would send us cards and tapes and emails telling us how wonderful we are and how he knew we would succeed. I have to admit that the most difficult thing about quitting Amway was disappointing Louie. I actually think he is a really nice (if misguided) guy and I like him a lot. have you ever heard his tape "A man with a dream will not be denied?" -- Very funny.

Anyway, my husband and I both have PhD's and thought we knew what we were getting into but we were sucked in, lied to, and convinced we should spend a lot of money on tools and training etc -- to the tune of about $5000 in 6 months -- before we quit. My husband quit first -- but I hung on for another 6 months. I couldn't believe it was a lie. I teach business ethics and I couldn't believe I was really that gullible!

Anyhow, let me know if I can do anything for your site. I'd like to say that I wish I had seen it before I signed up becuase it would have stopped me -- but I was so sucked in I don't think anything could have convinced me otherwise! (Hate to admit that!)

The $5000 was for two conventions, weekly opportunity meetings, special monthly 8/15 meetings (only for IBOs who have shown the plan 8 or 15 times in the previous month), gas and expenses, monthly seminars, books, tapes, CD's and "special" Amway products (based on the claim that "you have to use something to be able to sell it") such as a water treatment system ($900) and magentic pain therapy($800), and also an artistry kit (the cosmetic and skin care demonstration kit ($800). The only thing we use now is the water treatment system. We never sold any of these big ticket items to retail customers and noone in our group ever did either.

We were told that we ought to bring 10 people to the monthly seminars and that we should buy that many tickets up front to show our commitment (we were able to get a refund on those we didn't sell, but at $15 a pop it wasn't cheap and many of the people we dragged to these functions never paid us for their ticket). We were also told that we should buy tickets to the next conventions ($145 a pop) at the current convention to "show our commitment", including as many tickets as we needed to sell to the n8umber of people we were suposed to bring to the next concention.

As I said, we went for it big time. We showed the plan 4 times a week (one month we showed 30 plans). On our calculations, according to the figures given to us by upline, we should have gone silver in that time and been Directs before the end of the year -- so we thought the investment was going to be worth it! We signed up 7 people total and none of them ever reached even 3%. We made it to 6%, but mostly on our own usage of the products (scary isn't it?)

Please feel free to use any of my comments but please do not use anything that might identify us.

Reading back over what I've written REALLY brings it home more than ever what chumps we were!

well, the return policy is 90 days and doesn't apply to sales aids (eg artistry kit, magnabloc retail kit) -- already thought of that but it's been too long!

Have a great sleep -- you are doing a great job there!

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