Last update 03/6/2004

You and your website are the biggest liars of all time. You should be prosecuted and through in jail. Sounds like you were in Amway/Quixtar and didn't have a dream. Also you don't know how to work. I fill sorry for your kind.

Hey Scott,

I just found out that Paul and Debbie Miller's affair was 2-way. It seems Paul was sleeping with his secretary Leslie for a long time. She of course was married. He is not allowed to get on a Britt stage for a year, and then it will be reviewed. I don't want to sound like a National Enquirer type of reporter, but people need to know that Quixtar is not some sort of Utopia...A lot of people feel it is.

It is not promoted that way from stage though. Paul Miller was the last human I would have ever thought would have an affair. It goes to show that when you stay away from your wife at night till 2AM every night that you can go astray eventually.

Someone will start looking for affections elsewhere if not getting it at home.

Take care,

Jimbo

I would never, under normal circumstances, advocate suicide.

However, in your particular case, Scott, I would encourage it.

John M. Padilla,
Private Franchising Coordinator
8681 McElwain Blvd
Denver, CO 80229
mailto:johnm.padilla@comcast.net
1-866-266-5807
cell: 303-809-4356
Joshua 24:

No. You are guessing wrong.

Your negativity is absolutely horrendous. That is why I would recommend suicide for you.

Have a shitty day.

I was searching for "persons with the need to kill themselves" and yours is the only site that came up.

Truth or not, negative or not, gossip is gossip and that is what your site is filled with. That is what your life is.

You are a walking, talking soap opera.

I spoke to your mom. She says she regrets the fact that you were ever conceived.

I've been talking to some people in Quixtar. Your reputation precedes you.

"one of the weakest IBO's...", "never understood what he had...", "lack of integrity. Lack of drive."

John M. Padilla,
Private Franchising Coordinator
8681 McElwain Blvd
Denver, CO 80229
mailto:johnm.padilla@comcast.net
1-866-266-5807
cell: 303-809-4356
Joshua 24:15

I just want to commend you for the clarity and accuracy of your site. You are doing the public a great favor by offering the other side of the story. Hurray for your courage and integrity.

I have been involved with "the business" in its two main forms - as Amway back in the late 80's and then again until just about a year ago as Quixtar (humorously nick-named Slow-Planet by a good friend).

I obviously am a slow learner and am glad that I have found your site. The questions I have had are now being answered with the information here. I do wonder why there is no mention of certain organizations that did pay bonuses on the tools. When we were part of the Tony Renard/Dexter Yeager organization in the late 80's we received bonuses on the tools. I never did determine what percentage of our cash flow was from tool bonuses, but it was significant. We paid bonuses to anyone with 100 PV + on a dollar for dollar PV and BV to cost ratio. I would be curious if that is still occurring in that organization or any other. It sounds like that is the main point in the TIF disputes. We left that organization when we found that the integrity of the group was second to the dollar flow of the organization, but that is another story. It is also interesting to note that when we again became involved with a Quixtar group of different lines of sponsorship they were surprised to hear that we had income from our tool flow. There were even discussions that tool bonuses would not have been part of a legal system.

As a side note, we achieved the Profit Sharing DD level in Amway and hit 4000 in Quixtar The deciding factor to leave a second time was tied more to the situations so well-illustrated in your website.

I am quite relieved to no longer be ignorantly misleading my former and future friends.

Thanks for all of your efforts. The site is extremely informative and very much "on-base".

I would be extremely appreciative if my personal information is kept as such at this time.

Scott,

I just have to say THANK YOU for your incredible site on Amway & Quixtar! A "friend" that met me a few weeks ago was anxious (upon finding out I was a Christian) to show me a "business opportunity". I explained to him that me and my wife were happy with "Lafayette Miracle 2" (www.miracle2network.com/holly) and "Juice Plus" (https://www.juiceplus.com/medical/+hc36465) as our home-based ventures. He kept on describing this as a better way to do business, like driving a faster more efficient car. He also plugged that his brother also is having great success (he's in the military like myself) and that I should look into it.

After I visited his site (www.lifestylebuildersgroup.net, guest password of "jonesey"), I saw the different product lines and started to think of Amway (my older brother dabbled in that as well as Market America). Everything seemed sort of safe, except when you wanted details (start-up costs, etc.). That's when the name "Quixtar" finally came to light. Needless to say, it was a short Google search later when I came across your site...all the same lies and techniques were right there. Promises of this and that, naming off all these honest military people who joined, how it could help people in ministry (kept on bringing up this guy who is a missionary with 9 kids), etc.

ARGH!

Thanks for being a beacon of truth, using Quixtar's own promotional propaganda against them, and helping me see through the junk!

THANKS!

Rob

You have taken great lengths to compile such a large list of info (negative) on so many Amway distributors. I hope you still find time for some fun things in life. I'm a former distributor from the WWDB group. I found a lot of flaws in the people and systems but I take my experience of about four years as a learning journey that put me on the road to new ideas and possibilities. If I had to guess, you weren't in for long and or didn't build many friendships with others who are like us, seeking something more than what we had, to make up for lack of direction and mentorship in our past. The suggested self-help reading mat'l from the WWDB group and Britt organization (and I'm sure many others) was very valuable to me and many others. Personal growth, personal contacts and adventure was worth the trip to me! Just thought I'd give you my perspective.

Scott,

I wrote to you several years ago with a brief account of my story involving the Amway nightmare and you were nice enough to write back. I realize that you are very busy so I understand if you have no time to respond. I just wanted to say "Great Work" on the upkeep of your website!

I visit often to keep up with the latest news. I found the letters between yourself and the lawyers most interesting and typical (on their part) of someone with something to hide.

I recently contacted my former upline Emerald, Vic and Debbie Golat (Britt Organization), inquiring about my former sponsor Jon Schuler.

Scott, I am not kidding in the least when I tell you that this guy (Vic) used the same line "Jon's business is exploding" that he used over ten years ago when I was in the business! I nearly fell out of my office chair laughing! I still don't know if Vic ever went Diamond and I'm pretty sure Jon's not even Direct.

I will say that my time in the Amway business wasn't a total loss, I did learn a lot from the many books that they "suggested" I buy and read. The books taught me a good bit about people skills.

I know you're busy, I'll not take any more of your time. Thank you again for keeping your website up to date and never let them get the best of you!

Bill

Hmmm....how can an upline report MC volume for his downline?

I can't think of any other way except that if the upline is domineering enough, he could possibly demand that his downline supply him with his password to the quixtar site, then go in and register bogus personal sales.

Things are a little different here in Canada. Distributor Relations here has always had a "nudge nudge, wink wink" position with regard to this MC rule. They've clearly indicated that they will not enforce the rule here in Canada. However, this does not mean they haven't done it with people they don't like. In fact, I can see them teaming with certain diamonds who are trying to nudge certain downlines out of the picture thru use of this rule.

Scott,

As always you really crack me up. I just read over rounds 1-3 Attorney contact. As a student seeking a J.D and a Psychology degree, I find it HILARIOUS that the lawyers are so ignorant of the very copyright laws they are seeking to enforce. I was taken in by Amway when I was far more ignorant and vulnerable as to scams and dreams too big to follow. It didn't take long to see the truth and I am amazed at the amount of protest from high ranking pins in regard to their thievery. It just gives me even more respect for Bo Short and the other pins who gave up the business. Thanks for the laugh!

(former Ken Stewart clone)

Hi Scott, I copied the statistics below from your line-of-sponsorship page, and can give you some additional information about the Member/Client numbers - see explanation following your stats.

There are several reasons why these numbers for WWG Members & Clients look so impressive - (World Wide Group - formerly WWDB) they do not tell the whole story!!

First and foremost, you must remember that WWG is on the old call-in/pick-up system, which means folks in WW line-of-sponsorship cannot just go online and order anything they want, anytime they want. If we log onto Quixtar and want to order Nutrilite, for example, it comes back with an error message that we must order those products through our upline. So for the 'core' products ('Choices' catalog - all the main items), we must still call our Platinum upline during their one-hour window on our specified order day. Prior to that, OUR downline have to call us within OUR one-hour window (usually scheduled 11/2 hrs before we need to call - this gives us time to combine orders for OUR call-in to the Platinum). Pick-up is the same, but reversed...we pick up in a one-hour window from our Platinum, and then hold our own pick-up for our downlines. WW is the only one, as you note on your site, which still operates on this system. Many people who are just 'Prosumers' (i.e. Members, people without a substantial downline, or people just ordering products for personal use), find call-in and pick-up inconvenient, or too far too drive, or you miss your call-in time, and/or not in line with their personal schedules. So they circumvent the system. They will set up a 'client' account on Quixtar, using a fictitious name with their own mailing address. And since clients are not IBOs, they are free to order anything anytime they wish through the Quixtar site with their own Client number. So now, an IBO can log on through the client number instead of their own IBO number. They still get the volume, because they were the 'sponsoring' IBO of the client. Therefore, some client accounts may actually be dummy accounts for IBOs, and would therefore be duplicates.

There is one drawback with this method however, and that is that retail price will be charged, because a client does not pay wholesale. Then IBOs get even more creative!! You can sign in with your own IBO number, then you can order FOR a client, at IBO cost, and it's shipped to the 'client's" (your own) address. All you need to do is enter the Client Number under 'Ship To' and you're all set. This is pretty common practice, and works very well. I heard about it during a discussion at a function, of all places, where some women were tired of driving miles & miles to pick up, and found a way around it! Quite frankly, I use this myself quite frequently! Saves me the hassle of doing call in at 10:30 on a Sunday nite (of course, I have a JOB, so I have to get up Monday....)

Another reason for the seemingly high numbers is that WWG has been the line-of-sponsorship of choice from Quixtar to run 'test case' contests - one has been completed - called 'Track2' - and a new one has begun - called 'QuickCash.' Essentially, the idea is to accumulate PV strictly through client orders. However, orders MUST be placed through a client number, and cannot be shipped to an IBO address for them to count for the contest. The prizes aren't half bad if you finish within the amount of time - there's about $600 cash and 3 Travel albums - 3-nites each. Total value is around $1500. So WWG members have an incentive to sign up all of their friends, neighbors, etc. as clients, that other lines-of-sponsorships don't have. And I'm sure you have figured out by now that some IBO's would have been creative enough to combine these two elements....

WW's client numbers are probably higher than other LOS without these two things, because they do encourage clients (those who say no to the business should ALWAYS become clients - you're supposed to guilt them into it because they are your friends). But the statistics you show seemed way over the top, even to me. Then I got to thinking... Anyway - thought you'd find that interesting. Please do not use my name if you use this info! As I said, I use this method myself - especially now that my upline doesn't want to talk to me!!!

Scott,

It always interests me to read about "outsiders" views of the Amway business.

I have been reading some of the letters and emails you received that you have posted on your correspondence pages for 2003 and most of the stories are the same. Generally everyone gets involved in good faith (including myself and wife) hoping the business would work for them. You see the emeralds and diamonds on stage at functions and hope that could be you. You are a team player etc etc, plug into the open meetings, get onto standing tape order, go to the functions and are blinded by how much it is actually costing you.

When I purchased my first PC, among other reasons, I wanted to tie down where our money was going so that I could keep a better eye on it. In 1997, 20% of mine and my wife's income was spent supporting and building our Amway business - my wife and I didn't earn much money back then and Amway, in part, was also a big part of our social life (that amount includes the purchase of products - how can you recommend products to others if you don't use them yourself). In 1998 that percentage had grown to 22%, I categorized every penny of spending using MS Money 97 - In fact I still have the Microsoft Money .mny files to this day backed up on my computer. Then in 1998 came the announcement of Quixtar to be launched September 1999 (and the UK equivalent a little later on). Just like everyone else at the time, I jumped onto the Internet and typed Amway into every search engine I could find and in December 2000 my wife and I did not renew our distributorship, as a direct result of what we discovered reading websites such as those of Jeff Probst and Sidney Schwartz. After realizing the magnitude of what the Internet could do for a legitimate Amway system, I spoke to my upline emerald about designing a website (for free) where distributors could log in and download mp3 files of their favorite tapes - for which I was shunned for even suggesting the possibility.

Just before we stopped going to open meetings, functions and cancelled our standing tape order, I had the opportunity to speak to our upline Pearl Direct Distributor (a sapphire direct in new money). I mentioned to him about my findings and that rather than building the Amway business, I was going to go back to college and get a diploma in computing and that I would get back to building the business afterwards. Well he didn't like that at all and tried every trick in the book to stop me from doing what I wanted to do (an education doesn't necessarily give you a better job etc etc).

In the 3.5 years since I completed my diploma my income has increased by 225%. I wonder what my old upline Pearl's income is (he is still a Pearl direct).

Cheers,

Graham UK

I was wondering what happen to Ruby Meyer. She was a WWDB Diamond. She no longer shows up on their web site of diamonds

Dear Scott, I do not know you, but I applaud you in your efforts to expose Amway, Quixtar "little white lies". Keep up the good and faithful work. Dave

I could not open the particular sound bite you sent me about Dexter. I was able to open the test songs. Whether you are working or affiliated with P&G or any other compeditors with Quixtar is irrevelant to me. The fact is that you have obviously devoted an enormis amount of your time and if not yours...sombody's resources to put all this information on your site. I am curious, why have you chosen this company and it's support structure to attack? Are you spending your own money to advertise on Google? Dosen't it cost money to be on a server?

Most of the people I have talked to that do not want to participate in this form of free enterprise have two basic objections. Either they feel they don't have enough time, or they just won't addmit that they don't want to be embaressed by having to learn how to take the "no's" and face rejection. They also don't understand the true concept of residual income. Only a very small group still refere to this as some kind of a cult. There is definaltely some reason why you are involved with the negative reports you display. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that Don Storms has done something to get himself in trouble, and I don't dispute the information such as the cort docs you have put up.

But you want to know something? Even if there is even more information than you have discoverd that would be construded as "Truth" about the deallings with Don, he has still done a lot more to better thousands, and thousands of people's lives than all the information you have put on this site, and it would offset what you have "Inlightened" us with. Anybody can make mistakes. Don will sort his out, and if he comes back or not is not important. The leagacy he has already left is enough to far out way this pickle he is in. Again, thank you for the diolog, and bare in mind my own brother also listened two a Dexter tape and was turned off. No biggie. He is also sponging off his daughter living rent free in her house. He can point out many, many things wrong with the US government, and Quixtar. But he offers no alternatives to actually helping anybody's situation improve. So here is my question to you Scott, What do you have that is better than the Quixtar opportunity?

I look forward to your most likely very short response.

Jamie

Scott,

I Have been a fan of your site for many years and you motivated me to write to The California Attorney General concerning HR1220.

So, Dexter and Quixtar got there buddy, Sue, to try and pass legislation that would finally get rid of the old bug -a- boo retail sales rule. I guess after so many years of not inforcing it, they all figured nobody would notice it being gone and they would be legally free to really take advantage of the unaware with the Worlds Largest Wholesale Buying Business.

I referenced your site to the AG for background on the whole Amway/Quixtar business. There is NO better place for the cold hard facts.

My brother and sister in-law have been WWDB distributors for going on eight years and they just made "Eagle" Their 2-5 year plan hasn't gone as planned. But they keep on trying.

We don't see much of them anymore as we had a blowup many years ago when they tried to recruit my wife and I into the business and I threw them out of our house.

They are fully committed to Quixtar and have put off having kids until they "make it." Sad

Thanks,

B.

Hey Scott,

Was watching Discovery Channel this weekend and noticed Nutrilite running its own ads. It gives the web addreess nutrilite.com, but the site links back to Crapstar. Funny thing though - we were always told that network marketing businesses are going bad when their distributor force has to be propped up by outside advertisement.

Also noticed that the new Achieve magazine is posted. Seems to me, the last copy of Achieve I saw was last year. Have they gone to a once a year only print? If so, the recognition pages are pretty meager.

Just as a clarification -- Sue Myrick isn't a Senator. She's a Representative.

Interestingly enough, Sue was elected I believe when Newt Gingrich and his gang took over the House in 1994. Newt was crammed down everyone's throats at Amway functions and even spoke at a Free Enterprise. Then when his little affairs became known and he was forced to resign as Speaker of the House, Sue and her husband Ed came forth at a Florence function and admitted that they'd had an affair before they were married . I guess they wanted to get the info out on their own before the press did, because anyone closely associated with Gingrich and who had skeletons in their own closets was fair game.

Jane

Hi Scott,

I cannot seem to find your web page again, all it says is page not available. I enjoy your work in exposing these fraudulent activities. I am an IBO in the World Wide Group and only maintain IBO status in order to get the discounted prices and an occasional bonus check.

When I realized thing were not the same as represented was after my third year, I had reached a $50K income BUT was working 6 days a week 12-18 hour days to do it! A far cry from the "2-3 nights a week..6-10 hours" that was being constantly preached. From an "inside" point of view, World Wide Dreambuilders is all about evangelizing they don't care what happens to you as long as you "receive the Lord into your life."

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Tom

Letter 2

Scott,

The following summarizes my experience. Feel free to edit it for length.

March 10^Th 1998, I began an Amway business. I did not know much of anything about World Wide Dreambuilders, which is the line of sponsorship I joined. After reading the book "Best Kept Secret in America" and the business plan, all I understood was the actual business aspects; wholesale vs. retail and the bonus schedule, which is based on volume.

September 12^th 1999 I added Quixtar to my business whereby actually having two businesses under one IBO number. The Amway side of my business was not renewed in 2000 at the prompting of the up-line. Turned out Amway North America was going to be dissolved. I still am an active IBO in the Quixtar business.

As of September 2000, I no longer sponsor people into my business, for reasons I will go into later. First, let's talk about money, after all that is why most people get involved in the first place. They (the up-line) talked about exponential growth in this business, I did see that actually happen, I sponsored my first down-line within my first month and set out to be a salesman, my first year I made about $5,000. The second year, still sponsoring and selling I made around $20,000.00 and the third year I hit $50,000.

To some that would be considered a success. In the halls of Amway, I was in the top 10 percent. Outwardly, I appeared happy but inside I was stressed out. I was working 12 and sometimes 18 hours a day six days a week.

When one looks at the success stories published in the Achieve magazine, it's mostly couples that are pictured. I believe there's a reason for that. The amount of work for a single person is considerable.

As a single person building this business, one has to meet and greet new contacts, show the plan, then if they get in...teach them how to do it. For me, this and sales added about 1500 miles a week to my car.

Now if they don't get in then naturally you want to turn them into customers, in doing so, one has just set themselves up for more work and time getting them established as customers.

Aside from those two items, lets add general business-to-business sales to the equation. Amway requires you to have 10 customers to be considered a legal business in the eyes of the IRS and qualify for the 27 or so, tax deductions.

Now that one has done all the above, lets add in "product pick up." This is when all your down-line comes to your house once a week to pick up the items they ordered. This alone would take about a four-hour block of time one day a week.

In order for this whole event to take place there was another day of the week where one would have to designate another chunk of time, at least a couple hours to take "call in" this is when all the down-line would call in their orders for the week. A tremendous amount of paperwork was involved. A computer program was developed in late 1999, which helped, yet there was still your basic office work to be done.

World Wide Dreambuilders (WWDB for short) would tell us to sponsor the greedy not the needy. This statement always bothered me because I could see the savings that I thought most people I knew could use. Why not sponsor them into the business and teach them how to save a couple hundred bucks a month. It truly did not matter if they did not want to build a big business, just use it to save some money.

In three years, I showed over 100 plans and sponsored about half of them. According to WWDB this is what it takes to go Diamond. Why didn't it work? I wish I knew. Perhaps it was because I was trying to build it in Vermont...that can't be it because I had businesses in N.H. and Maine, even across the border into Quebec making my business International.

If I were to point at one thing that caused my business to fail, it would be religion. WWDB is all about preaching the Gospel along with the "Plan". WWDB is also based on duplication, "do what we did and you'll have even greater success than we did". One major statement I single handedly proved false.

If you were to ask WWDB what went wrong perhaps you'd hear something like, "well, he didn't get his people to the major functions." Or "perhaps he needs to prosper his soul before God will prosper his business".

WWDB promotes the major functions held each quarter as the "make or break" of a business. Granted it's very nice to be around 8-10 thousand people doing what you're doing. Yet, what good is it when your up-line tells you not to talk to them! Cross-line advice seeking is strictly prohibited.

So the bottom line is if you get to a major function and stay until the last day on Sunday perhaps they can get you to "receive the Lord as your salvation" it was a ritual at EVERY major function. Then they would be able to play the guilt card on you later on. Perhaps that is the driving reason why WWDB has the largest volume of all the branches of Quixtar.

What is also not discussed is the cost of these functions (as well as air fair, hotel and rental car), and the tools that are so hotly discussed. Why should an IBO be on Standing Order?

WWDB will tell you it is a training program.

I dare say it is brainwashing, plain and simple. If there are certain steps that need to be done to build this business and one can recite those steps backward and forward then why do they need to hear it again and again on a tape (sometimes two) a week?

All this leads to the reasons I will not sponsor anyone new, or at least without giving him or her, the complete story about WWDB. I still believe Quixtar to be a fine MLM. I know I have what it takes to build a huge business. However, why would I want to, in an organization that will take it all away from me if I don't play their game?

Diamonds Jim and Betty Jean Brooks for example, Betty Jean put out one of the best tapes I ever heard on how to build a solid retail business. Now she's out of the business with a divorce and $2000.00 a month stipend for all her hard work. Just because she had a different idea about how she wanted to spend the money she help earn.

When I heard that, my eyes opened and the blinders came off as to what kind of organization I belonged to. At about the same time I had the Amvox messaging system which was used to relay messages up-line and down-line. If one didn't check their messages regularly the box would get filled up. My up-line told me that I needed to either check my messages more often than once a day (which was a long distance call which usually took 20 min) or get an additional box because it was causing an inconvenience for them to have my box be full. When I suggested that they had more money than I did and I didn't see why they couldn't get the additional box, I was cut off from all communications for over a month. Perhaps this was their way of punishing me.

Shortly thereafter, I ceased all business-building activities. Suffice it to say, I had visions of the up-line telling me I could not buy this or that, for one reason or another.

If anyone invests the amount of time and money I did to building this or any business, they should not have to fear loosing it all to the someone who didn't even work a day in it.

There isn't a day that goes by I don't think about this business for one reason or another. I would like to build my business again but without WWDB involved. Just build it on it's own merits as a sound business plan based on products and volume, but that is not allowed by WWDB or Quixtar.

Well Scott, I hope this helps your new page! I am willing to elaborate on any area you want to know more about. I'm even open to an interview type Q&A via the email if you think it will help. It's a strange business that's for sure and I know a lot of people who have been wounded emotionally by WWDB. I've though so many times that I'd like to start a class action law suit against WWDB for misrepresentation but truly don't think it would fly.

Sincerely,

Tom

Letter 3

Hi Scott,

To answer your questions, I was just under the 1500 pin level at $50,000/year. Your second question, was that net income? Heavens no...that was gross income. In fact WWDB recommends that we only tell gross figures. The analogy used was "if some ask you how much you make a year at your 'j.o.b' you tell them the before tax figure don't you?" The mark up was 3-5% so the actual amount I kept of the $50,000 was about $2,000.

I was hoping you'd ask that question because it is a good one. I paid out very few bonus checks to my down-line as only a couple of them ever hit 100pv ( the first bonus level).

As for my actual net income...in the end there was none. Please understand that is a very hard statement to make. When one considers all the travel and BSM, "REQUIRED" as one of the "Eight Steps of Being Core." I actually stopped building my business $2,500.00 in debt. There was no profit after all that work but I have about 50 pounds of tapes which are useless now because they all have the name "Amway" on them and cannot be used with "Quixtar".

I've heard various WWDB speakers talk about cash flow and "you want to get into the flow." Sure, that money "flowed" through my checking account but when it was all said and done, there was still a deficit.

As for your third question, I was fortunate enough that I only worked part-time at a job, but even at my job I was prospecting and getting names to follow up with after work.

I cannot answer you're last question detailing the time because it has been too long now and I've forgotten those specifics.

Thanks for asking those great questions, I hope my answers will help illuminate the deception in this business.

Regards,

Tom