Last update 04/30/2003

You are ruining the opportunity for millions of people who will, ignorantly, put "Quixtar" in a search engine and find your website. You seem to have nothing better to do with your time. But, as for me, I am 3 weeks away from college graduation with two degrees. I will work for three months this summer and NEVER have to work again because of Quixtar! I feel sorry for you. Go find Jesus and better activities to fill your time than attempting to ruin the possible futures of others. April 24, 2003 20:03:29 (GMT Time)

Dear dream taker, The info you have is totally upside down and twisted. I like the way you try to discourage people by telling them LIES because you didn't have the guts to do anything with the buss. You try to make it sound like a bad thing that we make money on tools, and I can plainly see you are not a buss owner. I'm 23 years old and this year I will make 150,000 dollars, and didn't spend nearly what I did with collage. Collage cost 15,20,25,30 thousand dollars a year with no garentees. This is the simplest buss in the world because all u do is show people how to buy the same stuff they would buy anyway at discounted prices and make money, but I guess that is to complicated for you. I bet U ARE BROKE AND DEPRESSED because anyone who would set up a web site like this must be pretty sick to discourage people from something good that has changed my life. I don't go to work because of this, so remember that when u get up for your job. I get to raise my child and not a day care April 16, 2003 16:05:08 (GMT Time)

Hey Scott!. Its so funny that I found your website. I was looking up nutrilite bars that a guy had told me was a "meal replacement bar". It rung a bell, so I did a quick search on Yahoo, and found out it was part of Quixtar, which at one time was Amway.

I started laughing to myself because this guy has been telling me about this business he is in that he wants to tell me about. I thought holy shit, this is amway, or whatever it is they are calling it these days.

I was in Amway for 3 years, back in the late 70's and early 80's. I spent over $10,000.00, ten thousand dollars, buying books, tapes, and all that other crap for myself and my "downline".

I went to all of these seminars, rally's, in home meetings, all of these things designed to take your money. At the time I thought it was me, or my marketing, but nothing was working.

One morning I woke up and said F this. I keep spending money to make money, but I never even went direct. Even though I sponsored over a three year period, over 50 people, my bv never got above 1100 or 1200. At that time the minimum b.v. to go direct was 1500 b.v. per month.

I would sponsor people, they would come to meetings, then they would drop out. I would buy product and have meetongs at my house, just to sponsor people. They would join, then drop out. I talked to my upline. They would say buy more books and tapes. Come to more seminars. Spend. Spend Spend.

I could go on and on, but the bottome line is you have a great website. Keep up the good work. My website is debtfreesecrets. com. A honest way to help people get out of debt.

Ed.

Mr. Larsen, I commend you on your site and your patience in listening to the harsh emails sent by senseless, bankrupt Quixtar people trying to get something for nothing. And a final word to the aimless Quixtar "people"… GET A REAL JOB!!!

Hi,

My wife and I recently joined Quixtar, through an organization called True North. It's an MLM company that promotes online purchasing. Basically, the way it works is that we join, purchase everyday products online, and recruit others to do the same. Commissions are based on our purchases and of others in our downline. We do *not* sell to others, only purchase for our own consumption.

For example, we purchase 100 points worth every month (different products have different point values and you could spend $300 to reach 100 points). We introduce 3 others to the business, and they purchase 100 points worth every month. We are then paid commission on 400 points every month, with no selling involved. This is illegal, according to the Competition Bureau.

Also, the Rules of Conduct that we agree to are not enforced. For example, the Rules state that we are not to tell people that they do *not* have to sell anything. (Legally, money is earned based on products sold). Yet, we are encouraged to tell them that no selling is involved. The Rules also state that bonuses (commissions) are paid according to the dollar amount of products sold. Yet the company pays people even when nothing has been sold.

Just about everyone I met has not met the bonus requirements, not even once, yet the company knowingly pays them commission, which is contrary to their own Terms and Conditions. We were told that these Rules did not apply to Canadians. I subsequently found this to be a lie.

These companies are operating illegally, while encouraging people to promote a pyramid scam.

Leo MacDougall

If have done a better research..you would know thats all bullsh..

Hello Scott.

I've read your article about Amway at http://www.amquix.info/tr/amway_dk.html and there are some wrongs. You write, that people who sell tapes and tickets get the money from that. That is not true. It's the productflow, it's about. I would like to help you make your site better and more true. I understand that you aren't great at danish, so let me help you.

You also write about Alticor. We don't have alticor in Denmark.

Many greetings

Anne

Scott,

It seems that one of the people who promoted the most for the investment scam was Mazzeo. Now that that source of income dried up, he has joined the new mortgage deal multi-level. He has signed up a lost of his IBOs in that, going against company rules. Even Storms called him to get out of that new business. I guess he is duplicating his upline and may also be suspended. Storms isn't a actually allowed to contact people in his organization but I guess it doesn't matter.

Scott,

These are very interesting numbers on the opening page "Quixtar Q12 Business Statistics reported in October 2002"

According to Albert Einstein:

If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut.

The primary denominator in all your statistics is "w".

Having been an Amway/Quixtar IBO for several years, and having spent much more money than I made that entire time, I can say without a doubt it had NOTHING to do with trends or market studies. The bottom line is this, I did not do near enough work. I went to major functions, got all exited, hauled off and did nothing. Let me repeat that, I DID. NOTHING, (or at the very best not near enough). I used what I call the "burp" method. I would go in unsustained bursts. My longest burst being about three months. I have conclusively proven that the "burp" method does not work. I did show I good plan. My follow-up sucked as did my retail business. I met many people whom I approached for the business and never had the guts to finish and get out the business approach. I wimped out. I never showed it to my doctor, dentist, to a lawyer, or hardly any people in higher socioeconomic levels than myself. My guess is this a very common in this business.

"The average IBO had just 0.23 members and clients registered."

I didn’t think it was that high. The reason for that has nothing to do with market trends or saturation and everything to do with the fact that people, like me, never showed the plan to enough people. Why didn’t I show the plan to enough people? FEAR, Not demographics, marketability, price/quality, saturation or anything else that can be charted or graphed. Just plain ole fear. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, and even fear of success.

The reason for my failure had NOTHING to do with anything external to myself. The bottom line is I didn't do the work, PERIOD! The reasons I didn’t do the work were all internal and had nothing to do with any external trends, or a faulty business model. The difference from me and most people who write you is, I got the balls to admit it. Yes I blew it, I failed. I didn't pay the price. I am an Amway/Quixtar loser and I don't need a pie-chart to know that. How many people tell you that?

I was in WWDB and there are 9 steps to success. I can tell you from personal experience that all nine are essential. Outside of not exposing your business to people the number one cause of failure is people are not teachable. They don't put their ego aside and listen to someone who has done it and then put that knowledge into action. I am incredibly guilty of that.

I can't speak outside of WWDB, but I don't know of anybody who did all nine steps that didn't make money (I agree with Greg Duncan). I know you get a lot of people telling how the busted their hump and never made any money. They did everything they were told with crappy results. In my opinion, to be blunt, they are lying. Or at best, omitting the internal and focusing on the external. I read a comment from a person who said they showed a crap-load of plans with minimal results. Guess what, NOT TEACHABLE. After about the 50th no, shouldn't a light bulb go off, "Gee, maybe I'm doing something wrong, DOH"

The other day I told my wife "I have to go to work". Her response was, "No, you choose to go to work." I said, "No, I have to." Her reply was, "You were in Amway for 10 years." That shut me right up. She was right, I choose to go to work, just like I chose not to do the required work and not to pay the price to build a successful Amway/Quixtar business. Again, an internal factor, not an external one.

I read your statement about 7,500PV per month grossing $100, 000 per year. The reason for my crappy retail had nothing to do with price/quality and everything to do with the fact I didn’t ask for the sale. It’s real hard to get a retail sale when you don’t ask. That's is the prime reason for poor retail.

I’ll say it again, in my opinion the reasons people fail in Quixtar are internal reasons. I’ve seen people with everything stacked against them build successful and profitable businesses. I’ve seen people with everything on their side fail. I’ve seen people of all personality types both succeed and fail. In my opinion the prominent reasons for success and failure came from within, not from without.

A person choosing to get involved in this business could follow all your recommendations and choose the correct organization, line of sponsorship, etc. None of that matter unless they make the internal decision to pay the price, conquer their fear, face rejection after rejection after rejection, get knock down repeatedly and get back up each time. If they are willing to do that, and never give up they can and will succeed. Those some principle applied to any other endeavor will also in time yield positive result. Did you ever study why people succeed in this business? Why did Brad Duncan succeed? Brad was a laborer in construction when he got involved. When I was a kid my Dad told me to learn from the successful people never from those who failed. I asked him if you could learn from the mistakes of those who failed. He said yes you can. However, the successful people went through the same struggles and obstacles as the failures, they just didn’t quit.

Calvin Coolidge said: "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelict"

You got to pay a price in this business (it’s not your integrity). There is no endeavor in life where are you going to separate yourself from the masses and achieve excellence without paying a price most people aren’t willing to pay.

I remember a reporter asking Michael Jordan about a playoff game the Bulls came close to losing and had to come from behind, the reported ask him if he ever thought they weren’t going to win. I remember thinking, do you really think MJ got where he is by ever thinking all was lost. Sure MJ was born with talent, but it's the internal stuff that made him great. There a lots of people with talent equal to his that you never hear of. It's the internal that had him on the playoff court with a temperature over 100. Thank God he didn't do charts and graphs and studies to see if he should try for the NBA. If he did we would have never known him. Thank God he didn't listen to the many people so willing and eager to give you all the reasons not to try something.

Regards,

Stan

 Scott,

The difference between you and I in this matter is, I've been out there, I speak from experience, and you do not. You have devoted countless hours to your site, but the bottom line is you really don't have a clue what it’s like to get out there and do this business. All you have done is sit behind a computer where you have no face-to-face interaction with people. You can write all you want, however, I speak from experience, and you do not. That is a fact you can not dispute. All you have is theory at best.

Data isn't information. Information is knowledge. Data is a collection of facts. Information is that data organized or presented in such a way as to be useful for decision making.

The purpose of your site is not to arrange data into information so a person can make an informed decision. Huge amounts of your data are incorrect; therefore any information based on that data cannot be correct. Garbage in, garbage out (GIGO). The purpose is you site is to steer people away from Quixtar/Amway. Why don’t you just come out and say that up front? It’s reminds me of the Wizard of Oz; with all the flash and noise and a voice saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the current."

To prove that point: ".00771% that qualify as diamond." I come from an engineering background. If I am asked how much a widget weighs and I say 20 lbs. that is not near as believable as if I say it weighs 23.67 lbs. Both numbers may be incorrect however, the 23.67 number sounds much more believable. It sounds like I actually know. Just as your .00771% sounds good on the surface, but when examined, one finds it is not. Again, GIGO. I have seen other sites that simply divide the number of Diamonds into the number of IBOs and say, "Here, these are your odds of going Diamond."

I know a gal who got in the business to make a few bucks selling Artistry. Last time I saw her, she said she made about $300-$500 per month. She was a success in Amway. She achieved her goal. Yet, your number includes her. She never wanted to go Diamond. She is just one example of a large number of people who never got in to go Diamond. Therefore that number is flawed. Unless you can come up with data showing the percentage of people, who sign up with the goal of Diamond, then that percentage is not correct. Even with that data, it doesn’t accurately show any given persons odds of reaching the Diamond level. Too may other variables come into play.

Prove me wrong Scott. Show me how you came up with that impressive number. Prove to me that enough variables were used as to warrant a percentage down to five decimal places. I have not read your entire site so, if the data used is there, please tell me where.

I have several reasons for not being out there going Diamond knowing now what I did wrong. None of my reasons have anything to do with my belief in the Quixtar/Amway opportunity. To imply that since I am not active it must be because I don’t really believe in the opportunity is ridiculous. You can do better than. It’s my guess that an extremely high percentage of sentient beings know that exercise is good for them. Why then are they not all doing it? Can we get beyond the "if it’s so good…" statements and on to intelligent discussion? Let’s just forget the leading and implicating questions that imply a world of black and white.

Wal-Mart is a distribution company. Amway/Quixtar is a manufacturing and distribution company. Since Wal-Mart is now the world’s largest company there is no denying their system has proven more successful than Amway/Quixtar, so, let’s move beyond that fact. What Wal-Mart is not is a multi-level business. Wal-Mart does not offer business opportunities. Amway/Quixtar is the largest multi-level business. Had the founders chosen conventional distribution methods, you would be writing about whoever assumed that spot of number 1 multi-level. If you know anything about the history of Amway and its founders, you must know why they chose to use the distribution method they did.

My main point is, the greatest obstacle to overcome on the road to building a successful Amway/Quixtar business (be it $500 profit in Artistry sales or Crown Ambassador) is within ourselves. Most people simply aren’t willing to pay the price. Most people never achieve their dreams in Amway or out of Amway. The reasons are the same. I bought into the same business as Brad Duncan, Ron Puryear, Bill Britt, and every other person who signed on the dotted line did.

The inherent flaw in the Amway/Quixtar business is that is depends on people stepping up and being willing to confront their flaws, fears, doubts, and insecurities; overcome them, and do the things that most people aren’t willing to do. People have told Brad Duncan that he’s lucky. He’s not lucky; he just did what others weren’t willing to do. I truly believe that anybody, willing to pay the price Brad did, can have what Brad has.

Stan

1. 67.7% of IBOs who registereed in 2001, did not renew in 2002.

2. The average IBO had just 0.23 members and clients registered

3. Only 18.4% of IBOs registered even one person.

4. The average IBO had 38.5 PV/month. (100PV is shown in the plan)

5. 65.6% of IBOs never once attained 100 personal PV in the previous 11 months.

6. 21.5% of IBOs had a ditto delivery profile

7. Only 1.9% of Memebers and Clients had ditto delivery profles.

8. The average PV point cost $2.70.

· The goal of an IBO is to operate a business that is profitable over a sustained period of time.

· As an IBO, anything that would jeopardize the long term goal of profitability should be avoided.

· As an IBO it is to my best interest to maximize the retention of downline. I want to get them in and keep them in. Doing anything that is not in the best interest of that goal or the previous two goals would not make good business sense.

1. PRODUCT VOLUME FOLLOWS TAPE FLOW BY 90 DAYS.
2. THE MAJORITY OF THE PLATINUMS , EMERALDS AND DIAMONDS MADE THE DECISION TO PAY THE PRICE AND REACH THAT LEVEL AT MAJOR FUNCTIONS.

1. PRODUCT VOLUME FOLLOWS TAPE FLOW BY 90 DAYS.
2. THE MAJORITY OF THE PLATINUMS , EMERALDS AND DIAMONDS MADE THE DECISION TO PAY THE PRICE AND REACH THAT LEVEL AT MAJOR FUNCTIONS.

1. I don’t know if Mr. Duncan has or hasn’t read your page. Since he hasn’t emailed you, you can’t possible know either.
2. Are you implying that no email from is Mr. Duncan indicates his acceptance of to what you write?

Scott,

 Hello!

We really enjoy ( I think that is the right word!) your site and appreciate all the work you put into it.

Anyway, keep up the great work and keep us posted!!

Did you receive a copy of my letter I sent to the person at Quixtar? I also, sent a copy to my upline Platinum Ron and Sarah Day. You know, I am getting no response what-so-ever here from anyone. At this time, I think I will just let this IBO business lag itself out. My sponsor is thinking of getting out ,also, plus the rest of the people they sponsored. All the facts I get on different websites state that your upline will not respond to your questions. Boy, this is a nightmare. What do I do now? I need some help here, and I thank you for being there!

Jo

I must say, Scott, that your site was very to the point, and intellectually stimulating. Although I don't agree with you on some points, for the most part you are very accurate. It is also funny to see every die-hard IBO turn a deaf ear to the questions raised and write you off on their ignore list. I think the best part was catching Carillo w/ the Quixnet spot. I would love to speak with you more on the subject, as you are an untapped resource, obviously, and I could spend many hours of my time researching this everywhere, or just discuss it with you. I am still a firm believer that if someone is treated fairly they are 85% less likely to speak of it than someone who is treated unfairly. Think about it. When was the last time you (not necessarily stereo-typing you, but seriously consider this) told the manager of someone's outstanding performance? Now, on the other hand, when you were treated rudely, how quickly did you speak up? I worked for Best Buy for about 2 1/2 years, and I always thought it funny to see their complaint site. You should check it out if you have time: www.bestbuysux.org. I found it funny because I worked there and could relate to everything that was written. Similarly, there are websites of this nature directed towards Fry's Electronics, Circuit City, and although I have not looked, I'm sure Wal Mart and etc... I currently am employed at Office Max as a supervisor. I make more than I did at Best Buy, have much MUCH less stress, make my own schedule and hours, and am expected to work 8-5 Mon - Fri (although as stated I make my own hours). This job is a dream, but it's not 6 figures. Being the man of integrity that I am, I don't let those benefits go to my head, however. I completely agree with the statement about serving your country by serving your army (or something like that). Anyway, the whole point of those last few lines was just, before you move onto something else, you should always make sure it's better that where you're at. Not necessarily in $, but the overall picture. Anyway, I gotta get some sleep before I head to work tomorrow, and hear yet more Quixtar propaganda spewed forth. Oh... BTW, an associate of mine was in the Amway business years ago, did you know they were told "Do not tell them it's Amway." "'Is this Amway?' 'No.'" You probably knew that already, but just in case you didn't: there you go.

Look forward to your reply

-Derek Robinson

Please Post this: Sent on 3/19/2003

Thanks dude, and by the way spent I over 12 hours yesterday looking at and reading all the letters or replies to the site. I was second guessing what disturbed me so bad at the 5 functions, and countless opens, rallies, etc. not to mention all the other secondary things that cost a ton of money. I would always ask my upline why everything was so expensive, if they (the diamonds not my immediate sponsors) really had our best interest in mind I thought that they would and should have been a little more reasonable on the cost of supplies and the various functions; my 20 year old son was recently telling me we should rejoin and I was getting ready to contact my old sponsor when I decided to look online to see if anything recent was there about AmQuix (by the way great word usage). I always did think that it would be impossible to build the business the way they were teaching it, as we were really broke and could barely afford what we did spend. We were having trouble with our daughter who was 13 at the time (now she is 19, in college and, I really feel had we continued to leave her alone to work amway the story would be very different today) and we were told that the best thing to solve that problem was to go diamond. I remember thinking and saying to my husband "What does it matter if we have all the money in the world if we lose her it means nothing to me." To that I was told that it would all work out, by my upline not my husband he agreed with me. Well, the last straw came when I was pregnant with our now three year old we went to Miami, Florida for a function, and you know not one of those supposedly righteous men would get their asses up out of a chair for me to sit my very (obviously) pregnant self in. I virtually had to stand along with our two older kids and a distributor who all were downline, the whole weekend. We even got there early but all the seats were gone on

Saturday. I mean we were in a hotel 20 minutes south (in the getto where we almost were attacked on the beach by 4 thugs) of where the function was as they did not have enough rooms to accommodate us. After that function I was sick to think of all the money we had basically wasted only to be treated like shit. I am sorry but a lot of the men there had seen us for several years and we knew them from opens, other functions, and rallies and yet not one offered to get a chair or find one. Finally my husband walked up and down each isle until he found one chair for me and had to literally take the chair

from a person who protested, my husband was pissed that no one seemed to care that I was pregnant and had to stand. In all fairness the doormen did say they were sorry but never offered to help find a seat for me. My upline Rick and Kitty were wonderful people and I never was upset or feel that they did us wrong. I just feel pissed after reading everything from the diamonds who resigned and the other posts. I feel sad that we were right after all. I also feel that we were lied to and taken advantage of by the greedy bastards upline. They all knew they were basically using the fears and hopes of people like us to line their fat pockets. The only justification I see here is that there really is comeuppance in the end. They will have a hard time explaining to GOD how they crushed peoples dreams and hope that there is really a way out. So I say to all of them: Screw You Assholes!

Thanks, Scott for saving me from further alienation from the family members we upset and from making an ass out of myself. I would be really pissed to work so hard to get there only to give it all up, as my conscious would not allow me to stay. I have a ton of respect for the diamonds who walked away and from the ones who are staying and protesting, openly here, and not caring if they are punished. By the way if any diamonds read this and have an answer I wanna know if this is all lies, why did Bo leave and the other diamonds as well? Were they all just rebel rousers trying to cause trouble? I think not.

Why would they just walk away and then put message here? To lie or to help? I think they were sick about all of it and are actually really good people who are willing to lose their income for their beliefs, or at least give up the one they have with amway.

Jo Gallagher in Missouri

Thanks Kenny, and all the rest of you diamond jerks

Scott,

You are doing a great job with your site! You cannot imagine the number of people whom you've helped.

Anyway...you may already be aware that AmQuix seems to be closing their distribution centers...at least the NE distribution center.

There are a couple of items worth noting here. AmQuix IBOs often justify high prices (lack of value) with the greater convenience of having products shipped to your door. If you're fully committed to your upline, you're trying to order as much as you can to make your 100-300 points per month. As you know, full commitment to your upline is often disguised as commitment to your future, your family, and your church. As an IBO in the service of your upline, you have the convenience of ordering ONE day a week. Now when your order is late or you forgot an important item, they cannot expedite the processing of the order so that it will still ship on your designated shipping day, which obviously follows your designated ordering day. Of course, you can pay extra for next day processing and shipping. If you don't want to spend premium dollars for shipping you'll have to wait another week. But thank God that Amway/Quixtar saved you from making an absolutely "inconvenient" trip to Wal-Mart even though you'll probably drive right by one anyway.

Hey Scott.

I was in TIF.a gold direct with a platinum and a silver below me. I was 2 levels below Gerry Betterman(3 before my sponsor was kicked out of the tool side of the business) and in Gerry's bio on TIF site it talks about him being able to stop working a job so he can focus on building the business. Gerry is in fact back at his old job that he quit when he went Diamond back in 92. I guess when it comes to integrity, you are right..they have none!!!

Hey Scott.

Gerry worked for an investment-banking firm in Chicago until he "retired" in 92. Sometime after TIF had their first major convention after they got kicked out of Quixtar. He went back to work at the investment firm. Just thought of something else. I sold my house in Chicago about 4-5 months ago and I needed some very minor and I do mean minor electrical work done. My Realtor who was previously in my downline hired Diamond direct Denny Plauck to fix my light switch. It was kind of fun that these guys are back working after they stole a lot of people's businesses. Thanks for the GREAT site. Just thought I'd give you a little more background on me. I got-in in 1992. Did the 15 plans a month. I was FULL LINE on the system. I went silver in under 3 years and still found myself on the outside of the clicks with the upline. I was a qualified gold and wasn't buying my way over and I had a downline silver that Gerry liked so my downline got to speak at meetings.got invitations to special meetings that TIF had. My downline that was speaking was one legged and hadn't hit silver for years but when the upline likes you....you're in. I don't care that the upline makes money off the system. $6.00 for a tape is cheap when you compare it to other business tapes that you can buy. I don't care that they make money off the meetings..the problem I had was that none of the SYSTEM side was written down and/or followed consistently with everybody. no structure.it's all about how much the upline likes you. If they don't like you, you don't get to speak or you don't get the invites to the special upline meetings. So in that regards it's corrupt filled with lies and deceit, manipulation. We got tired of doing all the work; spending all the money, and have nothing work And then having our upline say it's our fault... that it's not working.while their whole businesses were lies. .When we asked why we were being isolated from the upline, they said we needed to work harder do MORE work and try and be MORE relateable. Hope this makes sense. I'm not bitter because we didn't get to share in the system money. I'm mad because they lie about EVERYTHING to everyone. I actually believed them that the business would work and that I could make money doing the plan. And finally because they stole over 90% of my downline when they started their new TIF marketing plan. I wasn't building the business anymore but it makes me mad that they say that we're friends then they steal my business. Sorry for being so long.TIF is so corrupt and I just wanted to give you a little info on them.

Certainly after being in the "business" as long as you were, you have some insight?????

HELP!!

Thanks,

C.

Dear Mr. Larsen

Just a note to let you know that I was an emerald in the business. We were very dedicated to the business. We lost thousands of dollars in our 11 years in the business. We did make money...off people that did not have any...That had false hope to get where we were. I hated this business.....I always felt like I was lying to people, and I was. I had to, so I could make my money at the end of the month. My very famous upline EDC would tell us: ' People don't need to know what is going on backstage. Show them what is on stage' They don't need to know that you're struggling every month in your marriages, your finances...If you tell them, they'll lose hope'... I had to buy products that I did not really like so my downline would buy them. I had to buy tapes and books and go to IBO seminars every month so I could collect my tool money from my upline. If you are not on the system, you can't earn tool money. We were in so much debt....I lost my house...Went bankrupt....Lost my marriage....I have 3 beautiful children....Yes you can make money in this business...at the expense of others.....

Anonymous

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