Here is some more mail I have received from site readers who are or were distributors. The newest replies are at the bottom.

You're site is terrific, well thought out and documented. I was in Amway for 7 years and can attest to all of the lies that you expose. We bought in to the whole thing hook, line, and seminars to the tune of more that $20,000 "invested" for no return. We posted at least a $3,000 loss many years. The years that we didn't file a loss were because we didn't file our business expenses at all. Our upline advised us that too many years of losses would attract IRS audit attention. The Amway years were some of the hardest in our lives. We spent money we just didn't have and ended up losing our car
and our home. The final straw was a bible study led by our upline emerald. He compared distributors to the Israelites leaving slavery in Egypt (leaving slavery to jobs) but first having to trust Moses (himself) to lead them through the tough times. By extension, that would make his upline diamond God, wouldn't it? I still have the notes I took from that study because I wanted a record of his outrageous nonsense. My biggest complaint was always that we were chastised for questioning anything or thinking for ourselves.
It was always "follow the system" "If you don't agree with the system you'll never succeed". You have to be willing to be a mindless robot if you want to feel comfortable among the groupies. And groupies they are. Treating upline like royalty, having to bow and scrape to them just as if they are some kind of God. Loyalty to upline was paramount. Now I know why, not for your own success, but so you'll keep buying tools. I really did not know about the income made from tools until after I was out. I assumed Yeager got most of it to cover the expenses of seminars and big functions. We were always told what a big effort it was for upline to put on a function as if it cost out of their own pocket. I never bothered to do the math. 100 people x $20 each at a small function = way more than the cost to rent a
function hall!
I love your comparison between Wal-Mart and Amway growth. Paradoxically my husband now works in management for Wal-Mart and makes twice the money he used to. I can already hear Amway/Quixtarites saying he should thank his Amway self-improvement training for his better job. That's one of the lines we were handed to make us feel better about people who quit. "They learned people skill and business practices that will improve their lives". Since he is in the technical/maintenance department, working on refrigeration and air conditioning units, I don't think he learned any of that from Amway.
Thank God we are out and thanks for providing an honest forum for people to really find out the facts before signing up!
Sue

Actually was doing some research on Cliff Minter (INA Diamond), came across your Roger Sitlcler page instead (never found anything on Cliff). My thoughts:
* overall, a good site, as far as home-grown sites are concerned
* many of your quotes in my opinion are not exactly reflective of the Amway distributors that I have dealt with (INA) BUT, I must add, I can read around them and your points are still mostly valid.
* though your site is over bearing in some ways (hey, what can I expect, huh? You have a job, too, and don't have time to make it more diplomatic), I think it still gives good facts
* impressed with your info
* confirms what I have sensed in the business

Now, if you quote anything of this letter, please don't use my name (yet, email me first, thank you) BUT please note this for your research
* My income in 1991 when I got in the business (INA Amway) was about $40K. today, my income is SUBSTANTIALLY better than that (in 200's). Though I am a "techy" in many ways with native God-given abilities, much of my success is due to the principles taught me by INA: I would never have received them (principles, personal skills) from any other source that I have to date encountered. My life is better for the experience BUT I must admit, "getting out" of INA has been very hard for me (guilt).
* The business is a paradox: almost everyone I know who was involved in INA is better in their personal and business lives now, as a result of their experiences. But they never built a business in INA. Kinda makes me
scratch my head......

So, anyway, these are late night ramblings and I wanted to thank you for the time you have put in your site, though it needs improvement (like we all do).

I categorize myself as positive and supportive of INA/Amway/Quixtar but no longer active. How's that for a fence sitter?

My updated comments 0223/01:

Well, I looked at my old email you had posted and must admit now (9-12 months later) that I need to add some new thoughts. I am still very thankful for the personal skills and struggles that have shaped me as a result of my years in INA. Yep, it was good for me in one way. But in another way, it was damaging in that it cost a HECK OF A LOT OF MONEY.

Coming out of the business has shown me how self-deluded I can be and how I can easily be led by pie-in-the-sky philospophy instead of hard-core facts. God gave me a head and I was not using it. In matters of business, my experience in AmQuix has taught me to check things out next time and not to automatically believe the sales pitch. Unfortunately, it took me almost 9 years in INA to figure this one.....I'm a slow learner, what can I say <grin>.

I would no longer describe myself as "positive and supportive of INA/Amway/Quixtar" as I did in my first email; instead, I would say that I give "passive resistance" and find myself encouraging those who are in "The Business" to evaluate the business on a factual basis. Most of them, like I was, are unwilling to do it until they hit a good deal of "negative". Once they do investigate it, however, they normally get out. BTW, I have not approached anyone active in the business to tell them my thoughts BUT, if they ask, I tell them to check it out.

It is only after stepping out of the business for so long now that I can see that we were all deceived as a group (I think even some of the Diamonds have self-deluded themselves). Most of us thought we were doing such a great, spiritual thing for us and our nation. Building its values, free enterprise, putting work ethic into this great nation of ours, etc. In some ways, we were doing these great things. On the spiritual side, I saw many of my downline/crossline/upline turn to follow Christ (I am glad to be a Christian). But as far as free enterprise, we never did help anyone make money from the Amway business: they always spent more building it than they made, chasing after the perpetual carrot (diamond) on a stick (just work harder). We did help most of them make more money in their JOB's, however, because of their people skills.

Thus "The Business" is still a paradox to me in many ways. As a Gold Producer with a Ruby leg, my perspective now is that I would never again get in Amway/INA/Quixtar to build a business. I would perhaps get in it to learn the business skills (i.e. personal development skills), but I would be sure to leave after about a year or so: that's all it takes to learn how to grow ourselves personally and you don't learn anything new after that. I have yet to find any organization outside of AmQuix that teaches as many people the business skills I learned while in it; I wish there were: it would be cheaper.

On the spiritual side of my life, I want to make a few comments for others who may be Christians. As you might remember from a previous email of mine, I am what some call a "Spirit-filled Christian": I have experienced the supernatural, transforming power of Jesus in many ways that my super-analytical mind does not understand. I say this so that you will understand my following comments: While in the business, I often made comparisons to Amway and the discipleship/Great Commission process Jesus commanded us--sometimes even referring to Amway/INA as an "economic salvation" as compared to Jesus' "spiritual salvation". It shames me now to know that I did that because I realize how wrong it was to equate a man-made thing for a God thing. Yes, I know many people became Christians through the testimonies given Sunday mornings at functions. However, as I am realizing now, as a Christian my finances are in God's hands. When I started listeneing to Jesus, who had been telling me for years while I in the business to "get a job and I will bless you", instead of my upline who said "just STP and you will be blessed", guess what happened? Within a very short period of time, my income went from $47K to well over $200K (tax returns to prove it!). My marriage improved, my relationships improved, my daily life in God improved. And all because I trusted God's plan and not my upline's!

Hello Scott,

what an interesting fact sheet. We were in Amway World Wide Group for about three or four years. I really don't want to get into it, but I will say there were two "awesome" things that did happen while we in it...1) my husband, Steve, accepted the Lord, Jesus Christ, as his personal Savoir, and 2) he cut his hair from the center of his back to his neck!! Two feats I was praying for years.

We never made any money nor any major "pin" levels, but what we did receive as a family is worth more than any amount of money in the world.

Thank you for your site and information. I joined Quixtar in February 2000. I was only going to "but from myself." I was not interested in building a business or downline. My upline Platinums were so NICE...I enjoyed being around them...eventually, I started wanting a $50,000 income like they claimed they made...still don't believe that one after seeing their house. Of course, they always had the right answers for my questions...they came into the business with large debts; they were slow-growers; they were going Ruby by the end of the year (yet, they admitted that they had never been able to go Q12).
Well, by the end of April, I was on Amvox and tape of the week. I was told over and over that Quixtar wasn't Amway and that I was really in Worldwide Dreambuilders not Quixtar! Confusing, right? I attended a rally/seminar--received my 1000pt pin--thought I was really going somewhere. I got my husband excited too. We signed up our first downline, were talking up the business, even had our Diamond do a board plan in our home! Then, we invited a friend who is very knowledgeable about the Net and e-commerce to a plan. A week later, he came back with the results of many hours of research--research I should have done months before! We were devastated! After many hours of my own research and reading Amway Motivational Organizations--Behind the Smoke and Mirrors by Ruth Carter, I felt crushed. I had SO wanted all of the DREAM to be real. I have spent part of my summer feeling depressed, angry, and stupid. We ended up going to part of the Brad Duncan Family Reunion--since we had already paid and could not get a refund. It was SCARY!!! There were thousands of adults doing steps to songs by the Goads--I told my husband that I could get 2nd graders to do that, but not 7th graders!
Now, we have expressed our concerns to our Platinums. We are getting ready to start the process of trying to get back some of our money for the BSMs. Luckily, we were only into the business for 6-7 months and had only signed up one in our downline. We reimbursed them for their buy-in. I wish that I had researched this before I had joined. Oh, well, live and learn. I still like the Quixtar site; I still think the Amway products are good--though overpriced; I still wish the Dream was real; I still think that the plan can work--if you could build a legit business outside of the system. Unfortunately, the AMOs have destroyed the Amway/Quixtar name. Has anyone built a successful business outside of "the system?" Have you ever heard of Olde Worlde--a group which left the AMOs and operates in North Carolina? Please let me know. Thanks again!

Scott,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I shall try to answer your questions; although, I am still too emotional about this experience to always be objective.
--I have tapes of my upline Platinum and Diamond giving board plans. I have not reviewed them since the meetings, so I do not know what is on them nor am I sure of the quality of the recording. I know that, if they are clear, you will hear the Diamond, Dave Grosvenor, state that you can build this business on personal volume alone--buying form your own business, no need to sell anything...a clear violation of the Quixtar Business Compendium and FTC rules. This was one of the aspects of this business that appealed to me as I have had a retail business and really do not want to do retail again.
--The $50,000 per year income for directs is a BIG part of the board plan in our group. I can send you information which is shared with prospects at such plans which justifies the amount. Also, my upline direct stated that he made that amount easily...never was clear on whether that was gross or net although I asked that several times. Also, at Brad Duncan's Family Reunion in July, apparently (I did not attend any sessions on the last day) it was claimed that the direct's income was going up by at least $10,000 per year.
Grosvenor's group also claims that the minimum a diamond makes in WWDB is $250,000 per year. Yes, in these board plans it is clearly stated that by working the plan for 12 months, 10-15 hours per week, making 25 calls per week, showing 8 plans per month, and sponsoring 2 per month, YOU too can be making $50,000 ongoing residual income per year. Always sounded too good to be true!!
--Yes, I did the 1000 PV on personal buying alone. I hate to think how much it cost me! On the average, buying mostly core products--those manufactured by Amway or Amway-owned companies--you spend $2.50 for each 1PV--I believe that I included shipping in that amount, I could check that based on 6 months of buying, if you want. Of course, if you buy from the catalog, the ratio is higher, and it is higher yet from Quixtar's partner stores.
I shall try to work on getting some information to you. You do not need to pay me for any of it--then I would be no better than those with whom I have contention. Some of the material will undoubtedly be very interesting to you. Please remember that those of us who bought into this were only excited about the DREAM...not only of making oodles of money, but also of making a difference in others' lives by helping them to become financially independent. That is the part I resent the most...not the money or deceits by omission...the loss of dreams. As "they" claim, "It all starts with a dream."

love your site- but please cut the music- very annoying!! I am a recovering Amway distributor. I was active for four years spending about $3500 per year and making about $1000 (a net loss of 2500). I agree with your myths. I have personally witnessed these and in fact could never shake serious doubts about pricing and tools. Keep up the good work. You
are doing a good thing with this site.

Scott,
where were you 2 weeks ago?
everything looked great with quixscam but I couldn't see any pricing or get to see all the products until I "bought" my membership. in my case an ibo. I actually knew it was Amway related but was told of all the affiliate stores and I thought that with the internet things would be pretty good. I was dead wrong! until I started to shop there I had no idea of the ridiculous prices and lack of real brand names. it was $168 to join (I'm in Canada), $60 for some materials I bought and I have paid $70 to use a website that I could call mine. can I get any $ back or do I just lose? well, it sure was a learning experience. I'm waiting for my sponsor to call me so I can tell him I'm done and to give him a copy of your material.
Jeff

Dear Scott,
I have been in the business for two years now and after reading your 'report' I cannot say I disagree with you. You made some very valid points and I commend you on your research efforts. My parents got involved while I was still in school and as a result of being told that they must sacrifice to have, they missed out on some of my big moments while attending my junior and senior years. Though skeptical, I signed up when I turned 18. Well, you are right about the PV bonuses. I spent $300 on personal products and made 120 PV one month only to get a bonus of a whopping (drum roll please.....) $8.62 !! I am still a distributor, but I will not be renewing my membership at the end of the year. I had been considering it (dropping the business) and doing the numbers myself, but got caught in THE DREAM and spent myself silly, and for what, a few measly dollars, Hell, I could've saved that at K-Mart!!! But I will admit, the functions and friends have really helped change my bad habits and have allowed me to find God.

P.S. My parents are now in the middle of a nasty divorce, no thanks to Amway!!!

I am the IS (Information Systems) Manager for a small Midwestern community. I was approached by two individuals concerning Quixtar in the spring of 2000. I, like many others mentioned on your site, allowed myself to become overwhelmed by the hoopla of this, "internet opportunity", that cost me to almost lose site of my own morals, values and ethics. Much of the information listed on your site in relation to Quixstar is TRUE. When I stumbled across your site I had mixed feelings. I was first very disappointed in myself for allowing myself to be absorbed into such a mess, and second, I was relieved that at least I had not yet spiritually and financially ruined myself.

One thing which I have noticed about Quixstar is that many doctors, drug reps and lawyers seem to be involved, at least this seemed to be the case in the organization I was associated with. These are individuals which have a bit more disposable income than the average person. They can probably afford to spend a bit more for products than most, therefore have an easier time generating the required 100 PV (Point Volume) per month.

The meetings, the prospect approach by my up line and the "RECOMMENDED" business materials pitch was accurately documented on your site. However, my up line has stated that some business practices are being challenged and changed by up line diamonds. An area of change is suppose to occur with business material costs as they relate to their profits lining diamonds and others pockets. However, I'll believe it when I see it.

I had, and still do, respect the up line which recruited me. They try to be good people and seem to be attempting to run a legit organization. However, ethically I cannot support them. One of the spouses of my up line is allowing her spiritual beliefs to intertwine with her vision of financial freedom. This behavior correlates well with the general description of many Amyways/Quixstar followers and scares me to death. It's like mixing oil and water, it just doesn't mix. I truly believe some, if not most, Amway and Quixstar related organizations are cults. I have witnessed it first hand. They can easily, if you allow them to and many do, lead you to believe that if you aren't one of them than you're going know where financially in life and then form their very own little organization of people to pass this system on to.

Please continue to update your site with the latest and greatest information pertaining to Quixstar myths. One of my up line's complaints concerning your site was that a lot of the information relates more toward older Amyway practices and that Quixstar's name was simply just typed in it's place. They seem to truly believe Quixstar is a different business opportunity. Well, I can't and won't buy it that line. Anyway, thanks again for the information.

Thank you for the work you did compiling your web site.
I have been a distributor/IBO for almost three years. I recently left the business and after reading the information provided on your site, I feel very reassured I made the proper decision. Like I said,
I've been in for almost three years, most of the time showing 10-20 plans per month. I sponsored about 20 people in total and never made it past 500 PV. I attended all functions, open meetings, bought countless tapes, books and videos, in all I spent a little over $15,000. I wish I had read your site sooner!

The real kicker and reason why I left was that I have always felt called to the ministry. When I told my upline that I was going to go to seminary, he immediately asked me if I thought I'd bring more people to Christ that way or as a diamond? And its true, many people are saved on one of the weekend functions, but if my calling is the ministry, the circumstances shouldn't matter, right?

Anyhow, I did learn a lot while I was in, and a lot of things that will benefit me in the future I'm sure.

My only regret was getting sucked in to doing the business despite your family and friends. I was chastised if I missed an open meeting to visit a family member who was in the hospital (most recently one who was dying), My grandfather was diagnosed with stomach cancer and I was told not to spend a whole lot of time away from the buisness that he would be healed (he died 8 months later and I missed out on countless hours of spending time with him), I was encouraged to back out of my best friend's wedding (of which I was the best man) to attend a weekend function (and it almost cost me my friendship) and I broke up with my fiance because she wouldn't support my business, and I miss her incredibly today!

These are just a few things, but they are the ones I regret the most. I do take full responsibility over the decisions I made, and it is a shame that countless thousands are encouraged to do the same. Luckily my family and pre Amway/Quixtar friends hold no grudges, everything is back to normal there, and I'll be going off to seminary in July of 2001! I just pray I'll be forgiven for getting other human lives involved in what promises to be the undoing of a lot of people's lives!

Again, thank you for your site! Thank you Scott!

Hi Scott,

I have briefly looked over your site, and all I can say is, "oh, my." I was in Amway for four years, and was just recently paroled. I was in the WWDB Duncan-Attalah organization. While, in the process of meeting many nice people, I lost thousands of dollars. It took my wife and I moving 350 miles away to escape the pressures and mental destruction the business was inflicting upon us. I am now in the process of becoming an independant computer consultant, and our lives are 110% better. I laugh so hard at the pro-business e-mails, because that used to be me!!! The best one by far was the guy accusing you of being a Liberal Democrat. I am about as conservative as they get, and would never accuse someone of being a liberal, just because they question Amway. What a moron. The thing we hated the most about the business was the functions: they guilt you into buying their tapes and books, press religion big time, and sentence you to their political views. While I agree with them politically 99% of the time, I find a "business meeting" no place to express them. They are all a bunch of liars and crooks as far as I'm concerned, and after five years with them, regardless of what they say, I AM QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT IT. Thanks for the site, it is very informative, and keep of the good, and truthful work.

Sincerely,

Hi Scott,

I can not think of any open meetings that I have on tape where they discuss that. I tossed most of it, and sold a bunch on Ebay. I can look through some blank tapes and see if there is anything. In five years, I can be certain that I never heard WWDB called a "non-profit organization" in any meeting. I am almost 100% certain of that. Now, I do recall "no money is made on the tools" being stated countless times. I specifically recall a statement made at an in home meeting in reference to ILD (which is the Daughery group that broke off from WWDB) that stated Daughery and his minions wanted to use the tools as a profit source for the Diamonds, in which they were sentencing people to two or three standing orders a week, and charging 700-1000 for major functions. We were than told that EDC Greg Duncan stood his ground and said "we are not going to that in Worldwide." We were than told that there was no profit from the tools for the upline, and that any profit made from a function was used to support functions that were losing money. Of course, all of this is B.S. My sponsors, who are wonderful people I may add, are so brainwashed that it is mindboggling. They have been in since 1993-1994, they went 2500 right out of the box, and are still there today. I am positive they don't even do 2500 in PV today. They have sponsored over 50 people, of which, maybe four or five remain. They are great people, but there is no escape for them now. I haven't talked to them since January, maybe someday they'll see the light. Anyway, yes, I have heard statements made that there is no profit from the tools, and no I have never heard WWDB called a "not for profit." I'll dig through was remnants of the cult I have remaining, and if I can find something I'll send it to you. I'll even pay the postage. Have a great day.

Dear Mr. Larsen

I wasn't even approached about joining Quixtar. I was curious about a catalog a patient had in the Dental Office in which I work. I asked her about it and she told me about this Internet business she was in. At the time I was discontent about my job and the mention of the Internet and making my own money came at the right time. I had just watched a segment on 20/20 about how Internet businesses are making money and saw the Rich Dad Poor Dad guy on Oprah. Basically I heard what I wanted to hear and was so excited at the prospect that I did all the talking myself. I was so pumped I told a co-worker of mine that very same day. She was skeptical but I was just chalked it up to her being pessimistic. I talked my bestfriend into coming to a meeting they were having. We attend the meeting but I didn't really get any type of information at all. Like you stated they focused mainly on the idea of being able to quit your job and retire in 5 years. The whole time I was like "ok, but how?" and "why haven't I heard about this before if it's so great". I do not know very much about business but it sounded like they were selling "magic beans". I found myself not able to even explain what it was to my friends and family without sounding like a fool. The sponsors just kept telling us to let them do the explaining and not to even try. Two words kept popping into my head each time "Pyrimid Scheme" . Unfortunately my best friend got excited and said she would join. Ignoring my better judgement and not wanting to be a quitter I gave into the pressure and joined also. If only I had tried to access this site before I did. Tonight is the first time I have tried to go on the site. Instead of finding Quixtar I found a bevy of sites warning people against it. Of course the first thing I am going to do now is try to get my money back. The second thing is to tell my friend how sorry I am and try to get her out of it. Fortunately I found your site before I dragged any more of my family and friends into this.

Gratefully Yours

Almost A Sucker In GA

Hey Scott,
Thanks for all the hard work putting together an outsider's view of the distribution hype of Amway and Quixtar. I've been in for three months and wish I'd have read it sooner.

What is your take on financial planner John Sestina fully endorsing the Am/Quix opportunity"? I know I put alot of stock in his endorsement. I heard him and his wife speak at Rock Hill, SC.

As I reflect on my three months in the business I realize that I lost sight of the retail aspect of the business when I realized that all the money spoken of is in networking width and depth--the 6-4-2. Needless to say, I'm no business officianado.
I've been in traditional retail for a year now and have gotten pretty good at it. I think I'll stay in that type of business. I may market AmWay products through the Quixtar site, but I won't be doing any pyramiding. What is your opinion of mlm in general?
It should have tipped me off when my sponsor told me he has been in the business for some four years and has yet to hit 1,000 p.v.! We have a couple husband-wife teams in the area doing very well at the business. These are the ones that are pointed to in order to bolster confidence in the "system." I've become much more suspect of the "system" since reading your website.
I think Britt means well, but it also seems convenient that so much revenue flows through the tool business. Something that has had me wondering is why he himself invests--or so one of my uplines tells me--if there is such a residual income as is promised. I enjoyed being around the people in my immediate group, but don't see any reason to stay around the local open. I know I don't want to network like they are doing.

BTW, I don't hate charismatic Christians in the least. I have some dear family members who hold some of the charismatic beliefs, and many good and decent people do. However, if you have not looked into the "Word-faith," "Name-it-claim-it" wing of Charismatic evangelicalism you are missing out on a large part of the philosophy behind the Britt-Miller-Winters, etc. system of teaching. To my uplines those men are more than financial leaders--they are spiritual leaders as well. Again, I'm not seeking to denigrate good people, as I know you're not. Just for your personal info., this "prosperity gospel" philosophy has heavily influence these guys and their downline and is a key element to understanding the whole system of teaching.
Well, that's enough for now. Thanks again.
Sincerely,

 Hi Scott,
My name is Leslie and I am a recovering Amway distributor. (a little AA humor there, Amway Anonymous). Seriously, my life was about destroyed by my involvement in this group. First, I want to thank you for doing what you do in supporting us "losers/quitters". It has been very helpful in my recovery process to read all I can, both factual and humorous. I applaud those who have put the stuff on the web where we can get to it!
I can't help you in your search for statistics as I did not reach Direct, and I threw away 8 years worth of Amagrams, notes, and workbooks when I found out the truth, but you can use my e-mail if you wish. I got into the business 8 years ago as a single woman. I built it to 1000, then met, sponsored, and married my husband in 1995. We pretty much stayed at the 2500 level the rest of the time. We accumulated 30 to 40 thousand dollars worth of consumer debt in 5 years. We never missed meetings, we stayed in the proper hotels, we bought all the right tools and books, etc. We also nearly divorced a dozen times, over this business. There is a lot more, but just say we are a much happier family now that we are "out". We've been out exactly 2 weeks.
I am very sure my story is just like all the rest, but I wanted to give you another slant on the subject. I just finished reading a book by Steven Hassan called Combatting Cult Mind Control. I used a yellow highlighter on everything that was identical to AMO's (Amway Motivational Organizations) in this book, and nearly every section on the Moonies is yellow!! The Moonies even teach how to break down people into 4 types, so they can use more appropriate leading language (p. 41) to recruit new Moonies (sound familiar?)! I was appalled when I finished the book, to think I'd have joined the Moonies if they'd called me first! Anyway, it is an excellent read for those asking themselves how in the world did I get sucked into this mess in the first place, how could I spend all this money, and how could I keep on doing it for so long, even to the point of destroying my family? Very, very enlightening. Also, just finished Ruth Carter's Smoke and Mirrors. Another MUST READ for a former Amazombie.

Dear Scott,

Wow. I am very impressed by your site. I think every potential IBO ought to be required to go through the whole thing before they sign up. That said, I thought you might find it interesting that I am still going to give Quixtar a try. I am willing to do that because I understand that this business (or any business for that matter) is about SELLING either a product or a service. Generating sales is what generates income, and I think this e-commerce site has the potential to generate and sustain significant sales numbers.

Well, I'm already late for work, so I'm going to run. But I want to say most sincerely that I think you're doing a tremendous service. I only want people in my business who clearly understand that income comes from sales and are willing to accept that this is a *business*, not some sort of magic.

Keep up the good work!

Scott,

I am writing you to let you know how much I appreciate you putting all this information on the internet. Like most people I fell into "The Dream" of quixtar very quickly. I only wish I would have researched before I jumped into Quixtar. My wife and I were both spending our free time to build the business and join our upline in out of town meetings. It was only recently that I became discouraged with the way my upline was running around a few questions that I thought were very important. From the beginning I was a little fishy about the way BSM's were pushed so heavily. I just couldn't put my finger on it. Also, when I tried to place an order and a message came up saying that "our upline has reserved the right to keep a personal relationship with us and will be in charge of placing our order" made me very upset that our order wasn't as private as once thought. When we asked our upline about the incident they simply said that once you reach a certain level that you will be able to purchase your own products but until then we will place your order for you. My question is why wasn't I told about this while they were presenting the plan to me? Also, when you go to several functions and open meetings and still don't really grasp the full concept of what exactly "the business" is...aught to start rising some more questions.

One of the things that I think is very funny is that our sponsor called me tonight telling me about "Free Enterprise Day". This is only the 18th time he's told me about this but this time he said..."If you go to Free enterprise day it will put you 1 YEAR ahead in the business" I just wanted to laugh so hard when he said this to me. If going to a 3 day week-end will put me one year ahead in the business...then I'm Santa Claus. They also have a bumper sticker that says "Dream Chasers" They got that right. Because that's all they'll be chasing.

Me and my wife have only been in the quixtar business for a few months and I thank you so much for displaying this on the internet so we would not fall into the bottomless pit of quixtar.

Thank you,

Former IBO

As for the ordering incident, we placed an order through quixtar and as soon as we hit send, a message came up saying that our order has been sent to our upline sponsor. From the information I can get out of them is that once you hit a certain level (I'm thinking Direct) you gain access to "the warehouse" (?) and will be able to place your own order. They never said anything about this when presenting the plan. This was our first order after being in Quixtar a few months. It really is amazing how much they push the books, tapes and seminars over their so called "world class products".

 G'day, Scott! My name is Louie and I am from Sydney, Australia. I just wanted to congratulate you on your excellent work and website. It's a damn shame that it was not available in 1992 when my wife and I joined Amway and Network 21, which is another AMO. Your site was like a detailed description of our five-year sojourn into the philosophy of despair that is multi-level marketing.
I am an analyst/programmer by day and I applied none of my analytical skills and techniques when I was shown the plan. No sir! The plan presenter was a super speaker and swept the room with the force of his personality. It was literally a case of hold the pen while I move the paper. Five years and approximately $15000.00 later, we called a halt to the farce when, in spite of showing up to 30 plans a month at our peak, coming to every function, buying and listening to every tape and reading every book, prospecting anything and everything which moved, buying every blessed thing from the catalogues, driving the miles, and having a super attitude, we could not break past the fifty-downline, 15% level. Something had to be wrong and we were tired of repeating to ourselves in the mirror that "we were the problem but we were also the solution". They was gittin out fastern we could put em in.

All you have compiled is true, the alienation of friends and family, the neglect of our children and each other's feelings, the deterioration of performance at our jobs, and the run-away costs of operating an inadequately-researched business proposition. My personal biggest regret is that we managed to sponsor so many people and get them duplicating us, which meant that we inflicted the same or approximate experience on them. You bet I'm going to spread your hyperlink to anyone who will listen and most especially to those who won't till it finally breaks through. Don't get me wrong, I believe that there is more to life than just 9-to-5 till 65 then you die, or I wouldn't have been open to the opportunity in the first place. But it cannot be attained at the expense of so many who are being led by a siren song.

More power to you, Scott, and thank you for having the courage to say what most
of us can only think about.

 Scott,
Great stuff. I just got a computer about 2 weeks ago and never knew all this info. was available to me. Ex distributers as of 2 years ago and it is amazing what I can afford now that I'm not buying all those stupid tapes - the scam is bigger than I ever imagined. I've been printing info off the computer to try and save some others that are still doing it. I will give you some of my personal testimony later on (such as the times that I was buying 50, yes 50, tapes a week and was REINFORCED by my upline that in doing so my business was going to be huge). I'll write you later
on with my story.

Thanks,

Dear Scott,

I'm really happy that you created this site. Hopefully it will save people a lot of time and money...LOL...just the reason they get brainwashed into getting in. I am a distributor. I don't buy much now. I was working hard at it for 3 years...that was about a year ago. I lost thousands of dollars...hoping I would "strike it rich". What a laugh! I truly believe the whole system is a cult.

I was in with WWDB. They are so full of it! By the time I stopped "building" the business, I had made it all the way to 1000 pv....wooptie doooo! My sponsors/directs, have been directs for at least 5 years. Dang...if they can't move up, why do they think anyone else can? I worked really hard. I bought the system and ran with it. I lost money, friends, family, and self-esteem in the process. I thank God every day that I'm out of it...and I wonder why I was so gullible to get in.

today, I am happy, content, (not rich...but truly happy), and I'm working on a career in web site design. By the way....your's is very nice! Maybe I had to go through that Amway fiasco in order to learn what things matter most in life.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,

L.

Thanks Scott. No. I "tossed" all my tapes (hundreds of them) after I made the decision to not build it anymore. I'm sorry. If I did....they'd be yours for sure.

I have not read the cult book you mentioned. It sounds fascinating. I'm pretty busy these days with my studies...but maybe sometime I'll read that book.

I feel one of the biggest obstacles was the religious overtone of all the functions. I am not religious and I took offense to Bill Britt and all the diamonds when they attempted to shove their views down our throats. It made me wonder about the people from other religions and how that made them feel. A crossline friend of mine ran out of a function once in tears because the speaker was telling us that if we didn't believe the way he did, we would go to hell. That speaker's name is Bob Wells and he is a diamond in WWDB.

My Mom and I attended a Jewish service one Sunday morning while in Portland. We did not want to go to the non-denominational church service that most people went to. It was very nice. Everyone was very friendly to us. And it seemed the Jewish and non-Christian people had some Major issues when it came to the constant Christian/religious pushing that we always got. It made us feel not so alone in our thoughts regarding this issue.

Well, hope that sheds some light. Take care Scott....and keep up the good work. You are doing a wonderful service.

Scott,

Great site!!

I was a distributor in Amway about 10 years ago. My experience was more of the typical story, similar to what I read on your site. Bad business sense, more debt, broken dreams, .... all cause to stop and take stock. I "grew" from that experience, and still, until I saw your site, hadn't quite put together what went wrong. Glad to see the numbers and be able to see some sense, after all these years. I am most definitely stronger for it, in business and leadership skills gained. But gosh, what an expensive lesson. The total cost for seminars and workshops that I have since attended, to enhance my management skills in my regular 'day' job, is, even after a 10 year period, not equal to the money lost in that particular MLM business.

As far as experience being a good teacher for personal growth....Consider, I am also a recovering alcoholic. That too, a lesson with some expense. AA meetings are free and sponsors are there to share experience, strength, and hope....all for free, and only for your best interest. True, not a business, but certainly a large organization brimming with truth, integrity and right living. Best guides were free.

Scott,

Thanks for your site. My wife and I were pawns in the business for 8 years never missed a function, promoted the system all the time. We still order the products and like the convenience, but we are glad to be away from the system. I just got a phone call yesterday from someone prospecting me I spent 45 minutes on the phone with her referring her to Jeff Probst's site and the book "Behind the Smoke and Mirrors" I hope she takes the time to check it out before she gets sucked dry.

THANKS FOR YOUR SITE!!!

BLESS YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS TO GET THE TRUTH OUT!!

They should make the book of the month in all the Diamond organizations Behind the smoke and mirrors.

Thank you Sir for your words. I was part of this. They brainwashed me. I felt bad when I left the program first because i spoke to many members of my family and friends. I tried to bring the business to them without knowing the effect
on my pocket and my self-esteem. After reading your information I feel like a new man. You opened my mind and I do not feel like a looser. Keep up the good work you doing to save all those nice people who have a dream and do not let this diamonds take away their money.. Thanks

 Hello! Thank you for the time and effort you placed into your web site. I wish this kind of analysis had been around in 1992, when we first encountered Amway and was subsequently sucked in. I wish that my husband and I had had the common-sense to analyze it logically, but we were caught up in it emotionally. We joined because we were needy...needy of all the "nice" people we encountered, needy of another income as I was preparing to have our first child, and needy of God in our lives.

We were like every other Ambot out there: we lost money every single year and faked it till we'd make it. But we never "made it." My husband and I tried to overcome our resistance to Amway, but never could. We always had an uneasy feeling about it, because we felt what we were doing was unethical. It was unethical to hide the Amway name, it was unethical to fake our "success," it was unethical to not answer questions directly, and it was unethical to hide the tools profits from nearly everyone. After 5 years of Amway, I told my husband I wasn't going to do it anymore. He didn't want to, either, because, as a man of integrity, he had a problem with the sneakiness of the system and had a hard time living with himself.

On that fateful day in 1997, we quit and have never been happier! Life is very good, indeed!

Thank you for your web site! I hope you are successful in keeping it up and running.

Kim

I have read and reread your site and really enjoy it. I actually found it while searching for Jeff Probst's site, which I read a couple years ago.

My wife and I were distributors early in our marriage during what I like to call the "poor" years, and it nearly broke our marriage up, as she was caught up in the socializing aspects and the promise that somehow she would get rich in Amway by simply buying products we didn't need at inflated prices. It took my pointing out that we could afford to have her stay home with our children if she left Amway (more time with the kids by dropping out of Amway!)

Her sister and brother-in-law, our sponsors, are still in Amway and still have that dream, although she had to get a full-time job, they live in a dumpy house in a poor neighborhood, and they drive old cars, while my wife stays home, we have two new cars, and recently bought a house with a pool in a nice neighborhood. Granted, I make more than double what he does (in my J.O.B., no less) but if they weren't in they would have more money to spend on their family.

I'm not a persuasive person, but what is amazing to me is that the facts speak for themselves, but the devoted refuse to listen. No amount of pointing out the fallacies in the system works on those who are dedicated.

Thanks again,

Adam

 A bit has happened since my last email. Quixtar sent me the new Choices catalog. There is more of a feeling in this one of removing the Amway word in it. They do some cost comparisons but most things still look ridiculous. For example buying 6 bottles of ketchup etc. The pictures are larger to avoid seeing the prices etc.

I did get those items free from Quixtar as a test. I did some mass email to IBOs to tell them they can get some items free. I got some interesting responses. I talked to two platinum's: one was curious and the other was totally confused. After a few weeks I was reported and just got the email today about it. The other day one of Quixtar's rules and regulation people instant messaged me. What happened to that "high tech high tough"stuff. Funny though they said I am now suspended for six months they didn't deny what I said was true. They reported me to my upline platinum. I would just laugh if he called me up. Recently one of his downline told me that he just bought a Cessna 172. It's funny because they have been making Cessna 172's for over 40 years now. The price varies from $10K to several hundred thousand dollars. I'd bet he has the older $10K one.

Some of the IBOs on Aol are streching things way beyond too far things like: Bill Gates owns Quixtar, SA8 is used in the NHL, Quixtar is part of Microsoft etc. So many violations it's just countless to say how many.

Also I found out that Toys R US left Quixtar's list of partner stores. Some say because of Amazon.com. But the big thing I found is some stores are the same IP address. In fact some don't exist at all! For example edollhouse.com, thehomeshoppe.net, thegamestore.net, eknives and bicyclecentral.com do not have a real non Quixtar website. It seems to be owned by a company called Nextlec. Strangely via Register.com they had no phone number or address. This is very odd to say the least.

Well, I have be going now, by the way thanks for using my quote, I'm honored. I better get offline now anyway before the whole IBOA starts instant messaging me!

Scott,

Good job! Your dissertation is the most accurate and thorough I've seen on the subject since Jeff Probst's piece a couple years ago. I would bet that AmQuix is fuming about this as well as Yager's minions. I hope you can weather the storms that are certain to come your way.

I was in from 1988 until 1995. I was in Charlotte (Free Enterprise) when Ted Fish went across as a new Diamond. Actually, that was a banner year for new Diamonds. I don't remember exactly how many but it was probably almost thirty. The next five or six Free Enterprises I attended combined yielded nothing near that number. Until I let my membership lapse this past New Year's, I was personally sponsored by Diamond Chuck Orstad (95) who is one away from his upline Crown - Ken Stewart.

One funny thing I wanted to note for you that I saw no mention of in your or anybody elses columns is that besides the system money secrecy and all of that stuff, these upline Directs and above were absolute cheapskates. They never used any of their own money for anything - period. Case in point; directs held sponsoring contests among immediate groups all the time. The prizes were usually something like a pot or free rally tickets. The distributors always had to foot the bill, fill the pot, or whatever while the Directs sanctioning these contests never contributed a nickel. They wouldn't even throw in a bonus to make it interesting. And of course, participation was compulsory. This used to drive me nuts because it ran counter to how established businesses operated in regards to promotions. What these misers were doing was tantamount to charging business clients admission to your company's open house. You spend your own money to attract more business which in the long run will in turn either create more or cement old clients' loyalties. Either these idiots never grasped that concept OR they were all too broke themselves to prime their own kitty's.

Directs would counter my characterization by saying that they selflessly invest their own money when they drive to show the plan for you on their own dime or schmooze your contacts on their own time. They might have a point if they were doing it for you without benefit to themselves but we all know that they indeed benefit from doing it; they wouldn't be doing it at all it they didn't.

I was not a model distributor by any means. Like you, I'm a B.S.ME. (KSU 77') which means I'm logic driven to the max. Everything they proposed defied logic and resulted in queries from me that they didn't appreciate one bit. They used to say the word "analyze" with that certain sardonic tone to make me and others like me feel ashamed that we dared question the "exalted ones". That didn't deter me one iota and eventually I faded away because their answers or lack of them didn't quite add up. I knew something smelled foul but until Probst broke rank and exposed everything in public, I never knew what it was nor did I ever think I would find out.

I honestly think that this is the beginning of the end for all of these guys and perhaps Amway as well. The internet is making it hard for anybody with dirty little secrets to keep them secret. I agree with many that Amway is culpable in the abuses of their high pins' BSM practices by failing to stop them but I also believe they didn't have much choice. Rich and Jay knew all too well what could happen if their cash cow jumped ship because they themselves did it to Nutrilite back in the 50's. I think the monicker "Yagerway" would be more than Rich and Jay could handle.

Sincerely,

Chris

I'm 15, a few years back my mom and dad got in Amway. I always had a bad feeling about it, and we only signed up one person. After 3 years of blowing money on tapes, seminars, etc we got out of it. Than a year ago, my dad got us into Quixtar. We have signed a nice amount of people up, but we don't get anything because they aren't active. I always knew Amway/Quixtar was a scam. And my dad always preaches that negative stuff. I actually remember a long time ago I had a Marilyn Manson poster on the wall, and he made me take it down because it was "negative". My mom and dad have been blowing money on this business, and we honestly haven't been making crap (duh). But I will get to the point, please explain this to my dad, email him and give him the facts. But please DO NOT mention me in there or tell him I forced you to do this, just incase is WIllie Jolly tapes makes him realize that you are a "dream crusher" or something like that, and I guess my dad knows some upline like the Ogdens and many others. The reason I don't want you telling him I did this is because he would probably disown me or something because how much he is in love with this. I mean they blow tons of money on tapes! Just please do tell him the facts, and DO NOT MENTION ME PLEASE!!! Thanks

I appreciate how you handled your site. I have been involved in Quixtar for a few months and absolutely Love my sponsors, who make no profit. I have been feeding off their belief from the beginning. I want to believe but just
can't. I truly want to find a way to help people out of their financial problems and so do my sponsors. It always comes back to how expensive the products are. I keep being told "It is a business to make money, not to save it." or something close to that. What I would really like to talk to you about is what you think would really work. Is there a way that people could do something like this and get honest profit from their honest effort.
To me it is like the idea of communism: Great idea-Poorly implemented. I ache at the thought of sharing all this with my sponsors. I Love them as family and don't want to dash their dreams or cause them to hate me. Kinda
cult-like, huh? Maybe I shouldn't share all this with you, but your site is the first rational look I have seen about all this. Too much emotion for and against Quixtar. Please don't ignore this e-mail. I am sure you are very busy, but I truly want to find a venue for helping others and am more convinced now than ever that Quixtar is not it.
Boy is it painful.... Be blessed...

Philip

Dear Scott,

Am I glad I did an internet search on the word "AMWAY" . I used Google search engine. I signed up to be an IBO about 2 months ago. I am about to quit in absolute disgust. I will tell you why.

I was on a tram in Melbourne coming back from a meeting in the city approximately 2 months ago (mid August 2000), I work for Telstra as an IT Analyst. A young man sat next to me and said hello etc etc. I was a bit surprise because initially I thought he was a Morman or something. (Not that I have anything against Morman's) but I am not that religious and didn't feel like talking to the man. During the tram ride back to my office he asked me what I did for employment, etc etc. I told him I worked for Telstra (which is our National Telco), He then asked if I wanted to be involved in a new Ecomerce Business Opportunity. I was sort of interested at the moment as I was on a contract with Telstra and I would be looking for other opportunities down the track. By the way when he said new ecomerce opportunity I visualized a new dot.com company startup or analyst role. I said I was interested and agreed to a visit at my place one Saturday afternoon.

The presentation consisted of telling me about the income streams of people, what happens when you 65, income dropping off, and how I could have a passive income etc etc (you've heard it all before I'm sure). At this stage I still had no idea what the business was, and was being asked was I interesting in getting involved in it. I told Hamel, "you still haven't told me what sort of business it is yet".

Before long they told me it was a business between IBM and Amway. And that it was a new internet site A2K.com.au. You could purchase groceries online and have then delivered to your door cheaper blah blah blah.

I'm still not sure how I joined it always seems like a blur to me, but I did. I went to a meeting in a suburb and was given a presentation by some guy who was doing alright out of it. Told me the model they show people of how your income works as opposed to investment incomes, as opposed to passive incomes etc.

I that meeting I could see a look of people who I though had absolutely no hope of making something like this work, but were there anyway in this hope that could make some money (and go on that damned boat, Caribbean, all they talk about is getting this fantastic boat trip).

I wasn't impressed with the meeting, apart from being bored I had heard this all before at an Amway meeting years before. Apart from the web site I was struggling to find what was so new about this ("about to explode ecommerce opportunity").

I ummed an ahhhd about it an then was encouraged to get other people involved. By the way as soon as you mention the word Amway to a lot of people their eyes appear to roll back into their heads an start frothing at the mouth. I told the couple who had involved me that I just wasn't interested in selling this sort of thing and that I thought it was a different kind of business that they were promoting.

On Tuesday of this week (Tuesday 3rd October, 2000) there was a nothing big meeting at a place called Festival Hall here in Melbourne. Some bigwig from Amway had come over to give us a talk. Mind you the meeting is classified as IDA Distribution, and so are the training tapes and cd's. He had set up some umpteen business in umpteen parts of the world. Talk about using the feel good feelings from the Olympics. He went through the same talk I had heard at a tiny meeting "duplication". And the spent the last 15-20 min talking about the boat trip and how people look at you on this fantastic yacht. I new then that this was not for me.

Also a strange thing I find is that if this crowd is serious about the net how come the tapes and cds cant be download as an MP3. ?????

Its Friday and I am home sick today, and thought I might use the net in the same way to find out if there was any dissenting views on Amway. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart; you have made my decision to quit very easy.

I could not think just how this business model was supposed to work for anyone except for a few at the top creaming it off. There is nothing different about it, is just the same Amway cloaked in a few different fabrics, dragging in more unsuspecting people to suck a bit of money out of.

Keep up your fantastic work.

Kind regards,

 Hi Scott!

I was at the gas station the other day, and a man and woman who were dressed like they were going to church approached me. Odd, I thought, being a Thursday. Maybe they were going to a funeral or something. Anyway, to make a long story short, they asked me if I would like to quit my job and be rich in two to five years. I played along, though already knowing where they were heading. They offered me "the best opportunity in the world" and I looked like the kind of person who would accel at it. It was not offered to just anyone, but a select few with "my potential". What did that mean, since I was pumping gas at the time? I was amused. They offered me "the world, at the click of a mouse". Get this: this "business" which they wanted to recruit me for has made hundreds of thousands of millionaires, and the number is steadily growing!! What a joke. I asked them if it was Amway, to which they BOTH immediately replied " No way! We would never be involved with such a sham of a company" How sorry I felt for them. I asked them if it was Quixtar, and they looked disappointed. They asked me if I already had been approached with it. My reply was to write down the address of your site on the back of my CVS receipt and hand it to them. I hope they checked it out. If they did, I hope they can undo the brainwashing which has obviously happened. Know the names of any good de-programmers? Thought you would get a chuckle from this story.

Talk to ya soon.

Lisa

 Hi Scott,

I have read your site many times....I found the info here excellent. I write you to ask for your help. Like many out there, my family has been torn apart by the system...My child and myself have lost the other half of our family to this brainwashing. My husband has gone over the deep end. We are currently involved in the Crawfords true north group however, my husband seems to think these people are the "good guys" of Amway/Quixtar....I am desperately trying to find info on these people. Are they the people my husband thinks they are?or...am I just plain crazy .I cant find ANYTHING on this True North group or the Crawfords...Might you know where to point me ? I do know of the Lorenzc site but cant access it...I'm trying to save what is left of my family...please help...Thank you....

I appreciate how you handled your site. I have been involved in Quixtar for a few months and absolutely Love my sponsors, who make no profit. I have been feeding off their belief from the beginning. I want to believe but just
can't. I truly want to find a way to help people out of their financial problems and so do my sponsors. It always comes back to how expensive the products are. I keep being told "It is a business to make money, not to save
it." or something close to that. What I would really like to talk to you about is what you think would really work. Is there a way that people could do something like this and get honest profit from their honest effort.
To me it is like the idea of communism: Great idea-Poorly implemented. I ache at the thought of sharing all this with my sponsors. I Love them as family and don't want to dash their dreams or cause them to hate me. Kinda
cult-like, huh?
Maybe I shouldn't share all this with you, but your site is the first rational look I have seen about all this. Too much emotion for and against Quixtar.
Please don't ignore this e-mail. I am sure you are very busy, but I truly want to find a venue for helping others and am more convinced now than ever that Quixtar is not it. Boy is it painful.... Be blessed...

Philip

The guy I met (to convince me to sign up) was really cool about all the info I had gathered.
To him, it's normal that just with your own purchases per month, about 350$ and, that you don't make your 100PV.
That's the reason why you must sign up people. Also, with a 3% return on your purchases, you're still paying too much (more than local market). But you must persist in order to get enough people, doing the same thing as you, to get to the 1000PV and get 12% return. By the time you get to 1000PV, and others in your group start getting to 1000PV, you get to 25%. That's where it all happens.

He was ONLY pushing the Pyramid Part (and calling it multi-level marketing of course).

I kept on bringing him to the fact that if an average family, buying everything possible out of the catalogue, doesn't even get 100PV, and that all the articles are more expensive, how can you possibly sign people up?

1. The money you save with house and car insurance more than makes up for the signup costs. (he says he saves 300$, because it is group insurance).
2. Get people to sign up just to have them sign people up.
3. Products, on average, are more expensive, but the Amway products are better quality. And if you buy mostly Amway, the 100PV is easier to get.
4. You don't have to go out to shop for all the products - the convenience of Home Delivery.
5. There is absolutely no pressure.
6. The only way to do some marketing is through friends, family, coworkers.

The guy had setup the automatic / per month over 12 months auto-delivery. He has a wife and a kid. Some months the amount of purchase was 296$ and other months 350$. His highest PV was 86.

For the cheaper house and car insurance, I can just sign up for 30$, and be able to buy whatever I want, and get the insurance. But is the insurance good? What's their reputation?

Happy climbing !

Mark

I was approached by a CO-worker who showed me the plan and couldn't take no for an answer. However, thinking he would stop with his persistence joined the Canadian team called interbiz. To this day he calls once a day and will even show up at my front door unannounced. If anything I wish I was just as persistent in not joining as he was in signing me up

I never switched off MCI when I cancelled my distupidorship. I knew that my step-son was probably getting a few bucks from our long distance calls every year .. but we really didn't rack up too much in long distance calls until recently. There's been a medical situation with a family member and we racked up over $200 in long distance calls in one month. When I started checking the actual per minute costs on the calls we were being charged 20-30 cents a minute on direct dial calls during peak hours and not much better on evening hours. Calling card calls, off hours was 70 cents a minute.

I started checking the different plans, and MCI actually had a much better plan. It's an internet plan where instead of sending the bill to your local phone company who collects the payment, they bill your credit card and they post your bill on their website and they notify you when they process the charges.

This plan cut our long distance rates by a tremendous amount, including calling card calls. Hour long calls where only $5-6. 30 minute calling card calls were only a few bucks.

BUT ... what I really wanted to say was that when I went to check our statement ... I saw the friggin' amway logo at the top of the page and realized that they still had me signed up for the partner program.

I sent them an email and requested they terminate the partner program, which they just did. You might want to remind your readers that if they quit ... they may want to do the same thing. Other wise scumbags and the distupidors will profit from the relationship.

 Dear Scott,

The beauty of the original Amway concept was "direct sales". Unfortunately, this particular ingredient has been omitted from the new way of doing business. I, for one, am dismayed by this. The one way for new IBO's to experience immediate income would be by marketing any of the many terrific products at their disposal. The Artistry line of cosmetics is second to none. However, there seems to be no serious desire within the "downlines" to teach women how to market these FANTASTIC products. An individual could feasibly make it to the "Diamond" level strictly using the Artistry avenue.

The concept of "self-use" is a wonderful one if in fact you are already financially stable. If you are experiencing financial hardship, it seems more likely that you would need to pursue the direct sales avenue while building your downline. I love the marketing plan we have. It is OUR responsibility as IBO's to TRULY find out what those to whom we show the marketing plan want or need in their lives. If they are willing to do the work and have the money to invest in the tools..great. If not, it is our responsibility to SHOW them how to make money using the direct sales of products currently available to them. I realize this is the original "Amway" sales plan. I would love to receive more product information at conventions in order to help us enhance our money making abilities. I also see the need for changes in "tools". I have a problem believing that we need to change the way we receive and order products but not the way we motivate ourselves. Why use a 30 year old system to run a 20th century business??

Sincerely,

Torii

Hi Scott,

I am hoping that you can help me or give me advice. My husband was recently bit by the Amway/Quixtar bug in July 2000. I have tallied up all of his expenditures which is any thing from books, tapes seminars, products from the website, registration and well anything related to the "business" In just three months it has tallied to over $500 I am an at
home mom and my husband is the sole provider. We have 2 kids and don't have the money to spend on a "dream" of something that will probably not happen. A man in my husband's upline is the cause of a lot of our problems. Of course my husband doesn't think we as a couple have a problem. He is in so deep already I can't even believe it. Brainwashed that is what it is. Every time I try to express my feelings about the "business" he gets very defensive. He claims we don't have money to do things as a family but always comes up with the money for his tapes and books and seminars. I don't know how much longer I can handle this I am not one for a divorce. I came from a divorced family and don't want that for my own children but I am so unhappy right now I can't even express how much. Things financially have always been a little tight but now we have the added pressure of this jerk who claims he is my husband's friend adding pressure and strain to our marriage. How do I get my husband to see the light about this business?
He claims that this man doesn't make him buy tapes or go to the seminars but he does recommend it. No joke he recommends it helps put money in his back pocket. Desperate for a way to help my husband see the light. I can't
believe as strong of a man as he is that he fell for something so wrong.
Sincerely, J

Scott,

I have really enjoyed viewing your site. What you say has substance and factual backup.

I am an Australian Amway IBO. Haven't signed anyone up as there was always this nagging doubt in the back of my mind. Showed the plan to 3 of my friends then gave up!!

This was 4 years ago. I'm still in it. I've just renewed, I suppose it was just the glimmer of hope the plan offered if all else failed. The books are good, the tapes were good, but continual bullshit gets to you after a while.

In Australia they have Home Shopping Delivered (HSD) which was instigated by the Diamonds to lock new prospects into purchasing regularly. Now they will be shipping the "tools" with the HSD orders, YES Amway will be shipping the tools for IDA (the Australian tool company owned by Diamonds). I considered myself smart, but now know that I'm just as gullible as the next person. I'm glad I let the tool part go when they changed the system.

My wife realized soon after we were involved that the money quoted just wasn't right, I agreed secretly, but the glimmer of hope, and me wanting it to work clouded my better judgement. For the past few months I have believed the only way to do the business honestly was to door knock and sell products retail. After viewing your site I'm convinced that this is the only way I would ever be able to live with myself and make money out of this business.

Thanks for opening my eyes

regards

Bill S.

Scott:

I appreciate being on your distribution list. I read your conversation with Louie. He is the real deal. I have listened to his tapes. The sad part is that his mind set is that same out of touch mind set that the higher pins seem to be stuck in. They do not seem to see anything wrong with what they are promoting. If they do, then they will not speak honestly about it. I appreciate your perseverance. I am afraid you are not going to get anywhere with Louie. I read his comments looking for some kind of reality based awareness that I kept looking for from my upline for three years, and it apparently just isn't there. You did not have to suffer through the "business" for X amount of years to have had developed the insight you have. Keep up the good work. Penetrating those higher pins thick skins is not an easy task. And we are not negative for questioning "the business". Do not buy his BS.

Best Regards,

Paul

Thank you for your informative site. These are the things I should have known before I signed on. I was too caught up in my own idea of a 2-5 year retirement to see that it was just an illusion. I must say though that while I was getting recruited by my upline I made the comment that it all sounded like hot smoke being blown up my a--. Yet they continued and I convinced myself that at least it was worth a try. Well, 6 months later I have less money than I had before and my wife and I are constantly fighting about finances. The turning moment of my relationship with my upline came when he was trying to convince me to spend $130 US per ticket for my wife and myself to attend a rally in Ottawa. when I informed him that the cost was exorbitant and out of the question he responded with, "If your daughter was ill you would find the money for medicine wouldn't you?" This angered me tremendously. Imagine, comparing the illness of a 1 year old child to a Quixtar function. This was when I realized that these people had lost perspective. After blasting my sponsor and of course him relating it to my upline direct I was effectively ignored. That didn't stop them from trying to send me tapes and books. I must admit I do enjoy the books. They are uplifting and positive but if I listen to another tape where someone tells of how they used to eat dirt or dog food but now have a Rolls, a yacht, and a 200 acre ranch, I will be a very agitated person. Now that I have an understanding of the methods of these people I can see exactly how I was seduced by my own dream. Clever......

CJ
IBO

 Hi Scott

I came across your website by accident when i was trying to find a website for Amway, I was up in my attic and found 300 tapes from my association to the "system" years ago, that I was hoping to sell back.

Reading your website, my hope is not to high, but may I say you are on the ball with everything you say, the system is forced upon you, to succeed, I spent 5 years and countless times away from my family to get nowhere.

I always believed in Amway, but deep inside knew only the very few ever get to make any real money(the ones selling the "System") Don't stop in your crusade to right the wrongs.

kind regards

Ken

You have a very interesting site. I don't completely agree or disagree with what you have said. I am 25 years old, have used Amway products and Amway's distribution system for over 10 years. My parents and myself are both Amway/Quixtar IBOs. I see no facts that are worth challenging on your site, because I believe most of what you said to be true. (I did think it was funny that you compared an IBOs success to that of a company like Wal-Mart, arguably one of the best in the world, EVER.)

The reason I am writing is to tell you what Amway HAS and HAS NOT done for me. I'm not rich. I haven't even sponsored anyone since personally being sponsored by my dad in 8/99. I have spent slightly more money than I have received. The products I buy are sometimes more expensive than what I could get at the store. (I too have compared.) I do, however, like the products better. This is because I think they are at least as good as the competition and I was raised on them. That is the ONLY thing I have DIRECTLY received from Amway/Quixtar.

My dad is a very soft spoken, non-outgoing, introverted, engineer type person by nature. My mom is a person that left unchecked looks AND FINDS the worst possibilities in things. And I, being their son, would naturally take on many of these characteristics. (Sorry for the bad spelling, that's one of my own.) NON-DIRECTLY (no pun intended) Amway/Quixtar has been worth a MILLION DOLLARS! My dad is completely different after reading the books Amway has suggested and after interacting with other IBOs that are also reading. My mom thinks like a different person, usually looking for the possibility in things instead of for how and why we can't do something.

It's true, we could have read the same books without Amway, and we probably could have found "positive" people to hang out with and learn from, but without Amway we wouldn't have known these things were out there!

After watching my parents play with the Amway business and go inactive for years, we were all ready to try again with Quixtar. You wouldn't believe the rumors we heard. Everything from IBM and Microsoft's biggest project to Cray computers powering Quixtar. (Unfortunately IBOs say false things about Amway.) But after all that I still believe in Amway/Quixtar. Not because I'm gullible. Not because I grew up with it. And not because my spelling stinks. Because, however unlikely it is to make it big, there is a chance. And along the way, while taking that chance, I just might (and did) learn something I didn't know that might make me richer or happier than I was before. Besides, IT'S FUN AND EXCITING! And at least for that top percentile, "When your dream is big enough, the facts don't mater."

I know you might not agree with me. Please respond. It make take me a while to get back to you, but I will.

Until then,

Live with passion!

Chris

Scott: thank you so much for all the work you have put into this site. I am a recent Quixtar IBO, and after browsing your site, I can't find one thing I disagree with. I have printed several pages of your site and will share them with my wife. We were approached by friends about a year ago when Quixtar first came up. We were told we could save from 10-40% on items we normally buy anyway. I registered as a Quixtar "Client" and looked for the big savings. Since I didn't find any, I didn't buy anything. Anyway, our friends bought an outdoor pool this summer and we took our girls out to swim a few times. Feeling guilty that I had not supported them in the Quixtar business, I told them that I would join as a member for $19.95. They said for $10.00 more, I could join as an IBO and have my own business.

Since I needed to buy a new Gateway computer and could get a 10% discount (I did verify that it was a discount) I became an IBO for $29.95. I made my money back with the savings from that purchase. So far, we have purchased some flowers, steaks, and shrimp from a partner stores all on sale. We also converted our long-distance to MCI which was a better deal than what we had with AT&T.

Our friends sponsor invited us to a few meetings where the "dream" is talked about. No facts are ever given. They had a sheet of paper that compared prices to local supermarkets for things that you would only buy at Wal-Mart and K-Mart. When I did my own price checking, I discovered the mark-ups that your site talks about. Included is the attachment of that analysis.

What do you think of Mary Kay Cosmetics? My wife is involved in that and has not done too well. They seem to shoot a little straighter from the hip than Amway does. I would love your comments on that company. Please keep my name confidential in any posting of this letter that you would do. I will stay with Quixtar for a year and buy where I see deals. That has been few and far between so far.

 Dear Scott,

For reasons of privacy I do not wish to have my name posted on your site, but I did want to write to you to address several issues that I've seen on your site.

My husband and I became involved in Amway in March 1998. We were shown the 6-4-2 plan of sponsoring other people into the business, not as customers, but as distributors. According to the plan, we sponsor 6, they sponsor 4, they sponsor 2 and we would be "Direct Distributors" and earn around $2000 per month. This was based on the assumption that everyone in the organization simply swithced their buying from Walmart, Kmart, etc. to Amway. "Just buy what you would buy anyway."

We were excited as my husband is a professional and has little time for the family. We were committed and trusting and did everything that our upline promoted. We haven't missed a single major function, we have attended the local and regional meetings, we have been on the "system" the entire time. "Just go on faith" we were told. So we did. We were inspired and encouraged when we would see the new pins walking across the stage. When we saw new "Directs" (now "Platinums"), we would assume they were making an extra $25,000 per year (plus bonuses) from the Amway business. For new "Emeralds", we would assume they were making over $100,000 (plus bonuses) from the Amway business. We were not growing as we wanted to because every time we would get a new couple started, they would eventually quit, sometimes they would quit before they started. We poured our heart and soul and money into this hope we had, but just couldn't get over 1000 points per month.

My sponsor and I both became very concerned about the deceptive nature of this. We're showing people we care about one business, while in reality there is really a completely different business going on right before our eyes (eyes we couldn't see with until now). We called our upline Platinum with this question: "If we became Emeralds in the business, how much of our income would be from Quixtar and how much would come from the "system"?" She replied "It's about 50/50 at that level. Isn't that great? We gotta get you guys to Emerald."

I used to hear about guys like you and I would think "Why would you waste your time and energy carrying this message to people? Why would you care so much?" Or I was told that people like you were just "bitter" because they were quitters and not winners. After our experience, I can understand the passion that drives you.

We are proud to be "quitters". I'm getting my life back.

Thank you.

Recovering IBO's from Tennessee

Dear Scott,

Just wanted to drop you a line and tell you how much I have enjoyed reading through your site. As a 47 year old, I very briefly got involved with (what I call) Scamway, more than 25 years ago. For the "most part", the people I have known over the years have been young and impressionable, looking for the get rich quick scheme, lol. I appreciate your desire to help others avoid the "traps" of losing money. I know one guy and his wife who worked for 18 months, spent more than $1200 in Amway sales tools (not counting every trip they took out of town, never missed a function), and made exactly $18 in sales of products. They were doing more than 20 meetings a month to try and recruit new people, bought everything the company recommended would "help" their careers, and nearly lost everything trying to duplicate their upline. Keep up the good work.

Scott,

Thanks for your informative site. I joined Amway in 1996, and was successful in sponsoring people (to my regret, and I've apologized to most of them).

A comment about the Rules of Conduct ... Our organization (Diamond Carl Reardon) would sign up people and tell them that we had permission from Amway Corp. to completely ignore Rule 4.22 (below). The Amway IBO Kit contains a pack of forms proving that you have these 10 new customers, and the sponsor has instructions from "upline" to openly tear these up in front of the new inductees.

The Reardon organization (Pronet) proudly boasts of not needing to do any retail at all - just buy all of your personal products from Amway, get on the "system," and sponsor as many people as possible to do the same thing. They even encourage allowing non-IBO's to buy products from you at "your prices" so the entire organization can earn PV/BV.

4.22 Retail Sales Rule: In order to obtain the right to earn a Performance Bonus during a given month, an IBO must make not less than one sale TO EACH OF 10 DIFFERENT RETAIL CUSTOMERS (e.g., Clients or Members) OR HAVE AT LEAST 50 PV OF SALES TO ANY NUMBER OF RETAIL CUSTOMERS (e.g., Clients or Members) that month, and upon request, produce proof of such sales.

Jerry

A thought occurred to me tonight as I was lying down my two-year old son, rubbing his little head & telling him how much I loved him & being his mom. My grandmother always told us,"I won't have you giving your work a lick and a promise" when we were little and trying to dodge chores. Yet, this is what Amway "business owners" would like you to do as new recruits. My work right now is being a MOM FIRST...stay at home, working, it doesn't matter - THAT IS MY JOB. I see our friends who are in Amway giving their children "a lick and a promise" numerous nights a week and most weekends, in order to pursue this business. In my mind, it is hardly worth it to miss out on your children's lives...for what? "A lick and a promise" of future wealth? What amount of money makes you able to "buy back" time that you missed from your children?

Thanks, Scott.

Keep up the good work.

The more I read your info, and the responses thereto, the more I realize that I spent a small fortune in tools that are, at best, useless in view of the direction of the business into cyberspace, and, at worst, pure garbage! They are totally useless, but in all fairness, I am reviewing every audio tape that I ever purchased to see if there is anything relevant to use in my dental practice, or in general terms to my interactions with patients and other people. The more I listen with a detached (physically and financially from the business) attitude, the more I realize that you are 100% correct in your assessment of this Scamway and Quackstar operation. The only people who can expect to make any money in this business are those at the top of the pyramid, who benefit not from the sale of over-priced and poorly-supported products, but rather from the unconscionable mark-up of tools.

When I first started, I was hoping, in addition to making extra money and developing a secondary income source, to have this business be the catalyst for me and my wife to develop and maintain a better marital relationship (since ours was, and remains, rocky, to say the least). However, the exact opposite happened: Michele was diametrically adamant about any cooperation with me other than on a very superficial and obligatory level. In fact, I probably would have been better off trying to build the business alone, since she was so negative. However, she faked it well, and tried her best (which for her was minimal) to assist me, by attending functions, seminars, etc. What a horrible mistake!

We are still on rocky ground, and I don't know if this marriage will last, but at least it does not have the added pressures of the Scamway and Quackstar operations dragging it down. The best thing I could have done to salvage a bad marriage was to terminate completely from the businesses. Once we did that, our upline wanted nothing more to do with us; they were focussed on building their Scamway and Quackstar businesses and did not need the added baggage of drop-outs! It's too bad, because I thought that we had a true friendship above and beyond just the commonality of the Scamway and Quackstar businesses. Oh, well...

Let's talk in greater detail; you seem like the kind of guy I would like to get to know better.

Best regards,

Chuck

Scott,

I recently was duped by a very persuasive upper middle class IBO. I am a student at the University of Washington and I really bit into the "lifestyle" that these upliners lead. Anyway I signed up about one month ago and thought maybe I could get college credit while running my business. After speaking with some professors and doing more research on Network marketing schemes I realize I want to be as far away from this business as possible. Can you recommend the best way to get the monkey of my back? What should I do to distance myself?? Any suggestions would be helpful.... I would hate to be known by all of my friends as the guy to avoid because I'm that guy... The Amway guy..

 I have been in Amway, along with my husband, for over three years. We still owe our sponsor $1300 from when we signed up. She paid for our kit and our first function and some products. She got us in by swooping into our lives when we were vulnerable. We were 19 years old and in a bad situation with family and finances. Now that part of our lives has straightened out, but we still owe her all this money. My husband is going to school and is about to graduate and we are hoping to pay her back then. In the meantime she is trying to get us to go to all these stupid functions and listen to tapes and spend way too much on products. We save so much money now that we no longer buy from our business! Our sponsor recently came over to my house and said that emeralds who have emeralds in their downline make about 300,000 per month per emerald! What a lie. They all believe this shit, too. It's amazing. How can they actually lose their power of reason? When my husband or I would ask a question we would be accused of having "detailitis". Then they would get snippy with us. This is definitely a business to stay away from!

Scott,

Your web site is the absolute truth! I was neck deep in Amway. I had a young family and really needed the extra cash. However, I found I was continually spending more money than I made. I worked very hard, I was fortunate enough to have a good sponsor. I showed 15-35 plans / month-- quality plans, but we could never get positive cash flow.

I was personally sponsored by diamond direct. He was an excellent help and provided me and my wife with all the support anyone could ask for. I still consider him a friend.

During the fall quarter of 1995, I won a promotion, for a ski trip with a large group of diamonds and directs. I really wanted the business to work. I WAS IN!

The problem is there is no money in this business, in the entry level without retailing products. It is web sites like yours that inform the people, who need to know the truth.

I am a true competitor. I am an electrical engineer and business major I graduated from University of Nebraska at Omaha, 1996, Bellevue University 1997. While I was in college I started a Turf Maintenance business, it has performed very well -- I used all of the knowledge I gathered in the Amway books. I still operate the Turf Maintenance business. I have considered starting another business, however, I am having difficulty selecting an area in the Information Technology area.

I was excited when you mentioned that you started an web hosting service. I have many years experience in networks.

Scott, Thank You for taking the time to put together this page.

Mike

Hi, Scott!

Thanks for the constant stream of information on Scamway and Quackstar. It's truly amazing how a supposedly intelligent medical professional such as I could have been duped into believing this garbage! I honestly thought that the "System" was workable and doable, but now I realize that only the chief honchos at the top make any money from this thing, and it's not from moving product! The tools are the trick!!!

However, I am reviewing all of the tapes that I purchased over the 3 years that I was in the business, in the hope that something will carry over to my dental practice. I doubt it; it's probably an effort in futility, but I feel that it's necessary in view of the huge investment in tools.

Keep me apprised of developments; I'll help to spread the word.

Best personal regards,

Chuck

Scott,

Just wanted to compliment you on your web site. I was involved in Amway for a very short time in 1993. I was recruited by a close friend, got caught up in the hype and signed on. I did not take long for me to realize I didn't fit in to the culture. My job required me to work nights and weekends (thus, few meetings and no big functions) and, I never got caught up in buying tons of tapes or other motivational materials. It did not take long for the upline above my friend to give up on me. What really turned me off about Amway was the behavior I saw at the meetings and local rallies I did attend. The cult-like behavior, singing, chanting, (they had an Amway rap about PV and BV!) carrying on about motor homes, etc. was all quite embarrassing to me. I simply could not picture myself bringing anyone I knew to an event like that and being able to talk to him with a straight face. And several of the tapes I got from my sponsor featured speakers who had quite the demeaning attitude towards women: "Men, do this, your wife will be standing behind you and be SO proud of you!" Buddy, my wife is an Engineer and a damn good one! She has more to do in life than beam at me and say "That's my husband." Thankfully, I got out before any financial or social damage got done, and the whole thing did not cost me any more that the initial sponsorship kit. (And thankfully did not cost me any relationships with friends or family.)

You mention their ability to motivate in your "Good Things About Amway" section. On this, I agree wholeheartedly. The one positive to come out of my Amway experience was a change in my attitude. By reading books like The Magic of Thinking Big and taking the positives out of the motivational tapes, I was able to start believing in myself at a time when I really needed it. I applied it to my life OUTSIDE of Amway, and it helped get my career back on track. I suppose I'll always be thankful to my friend who sponsored me for that. Even though he missed my wedding because it conflicted with an Amway function.

Regards,

Steve

Dear Scott,

I want to thank you for the great educational website that you have and that it supported my decision to do what I felt was right and get out of this less than profitable, and less than honest business. I started writing a long letter about my personal experience with Quixtar/Amway but I erased most of the message because my experience is exactly online with your site. In short I would summarize that these are the two largest problems in the business:

1. The lies and misconceptions given to prospective IBOs. The biggest in my eyes being the lie the 30% savings they state. If that were true, human nature’s natural course would have already lead to the majority of the population joining up. I could go further into detail but you already know much about this.

2. The truth that the upline’s success is not determined about their downlines being profitable, but if they are convinced in the system and willing to spend dearly for it. BWW has seven step plan they call the eagle plan that they say if you follow, is really the only way towards success.

The steps include being on standing order, being on the book of the month, and of course doing your 100 PV per month. What a nice way of brainwashing the downline into buying into the system.

I have been an inactive IBO for a few months now, and in the near future am going to turn in any BSM I can, but Quxtar still bothers me. I guess I had too much integrity to be in the business, because I see what’s going on and can’t convince myself to lie to prospects to sign them up. I wonder about my upline and if they realize what’s going on and still lie about it anyway, or if they are so into the idea of making their fortune with this that they don’t realize what’s going on. I hope that they don’t realize the lies, because my upline has 5 West Point graduates in it who greatly valued honesty and integrity.

I have a few questions of advice that I’d like to ask of you. How do I tell my downline that I am quitting being in quixtar. Most of these guys were my friends, and some still believe in Quixtar. Do you think that I should tell them that I decided it just wasn’t for me, or should I tell him my beliefs on it. I still intend on being their friends no matter the outcome but want to do what’s right.

Justin

Scott,

Thank you very much for your very informative site. I wish I had taken the time to find it a few weeks ago before I actually signed up with Quixtar. I was amazed at the ease of which I was able to find your site. I admit I was caught up in the hyping of the "dream" and delayed investigating the hard facts about this business. Fortunately, I will be able to save myself the investments of time, money and frustration that so many have gone through by getting out immediately. I obviously had many nagging doubts about the lack of clarity and sidestepping that my sponsor exhibited and after the first seminar more and more contradictions began to bubble up to the surface.

Just one example: the speaker railed on and on about the importance of family and being able to spend time with them, yet in the next breath he stated that if he or anyone was to build a successful business they were going to have to sacrifice that cherished time in the process. He mentioned some nonsense about being able to enjoy spending quality time with his "grown" kids after he had put in the time achieving his success (that is, the irreplaceable childhood years of his kids). It was this kind of doublespeak, among a host of other veiled assumptions, that was raising red flags in my head.

Again, I thank you for doing the research and crunching the numbers and I admire your perseverance in the face of the criticisms you've received.

Keith

You confirmed what I already believed. I was recruited as an IBO in Feb 2000. I am an IBM marketing manager. I believed the Forrester research numbers re. the tidal wave of Internet shoppers and the referral shopping mechanism of the old Amway system seemed more appealing now that the technology has arrived. The old system had so much brute force in it with paperwork, product inventories, exhorbitant shipping costs, etc.

The Ditto Delivery program was appealing because it ran for most of 2000 on free shipping for $100 threshold of orders. The products were expensive at IBO cost but on per use, some were more economical and I rationalized an entire family profile of repeat products as less than 10% more expensive overall. Consider the ability to avoid WalMart and walking lots of shopping aisles with eye-piercing tacky displays and the slow checkout -- it was worth it to me. My plan was to eliminate grocery shopping down to perishables -- things normally located on the periphery of the store like dairy, meats, produce.

I did note fewer trips to the store and less time spent on mundane store retrieval. However, I noticed the old groupie, doting marketing system was stronger than ever. Even Larry Winters noted at a seminar "jeez, edification is one thing -- sanctification is another." He was embarrassed by all the adoration. However, his speech was laced with demeaning J.O.B.s and he mantra was "come walk the beaches of the world with us." A film was shown of Bill Britt gorging on bacon-wrapped scallops aboard the Enterprise II yacht bound for Peter Island. I noticed a full crew servicing just 8 couples yet the message was "come join us." Either the rest of the diamonds that earned this got sick the day of the trip or the 8 couples indicate an extremely low probability of attaining this award.

I got on tape of the week and was immediately taken aback by a $6.00 cost. Our Platinum insisted on mailing tapes in a jiffy pack that added $1.73 postage/handling. I offered to pay in advance up to 3 months to avoid shipping and was refused. I also observed the "Platinum" organizing "team calling" sessions at his place of work here in Charlotte -- a well known utility company --on Sunday nights. I consider this to be a form of stealing. I also heard the language of victimization over and over as these IBOs blamed their lack of achievement on the JOB holding them back.

However, Brian Tracy points out that if you read just 1 hour per day in your selected field, you will be in the top 10% in 3 years. After 5 years you are top 3% and a national expert. After 7 years, you are an international expert. Not a bad return for 7 hours per week and no overhead costs. This is the best job security I know. The top 10% are NEVER laid off.

I noticed lots of churn in the Quixtar product line. You are right, the open meetings are full of sounds of "sweet shot" going off. Quixtar category management abruptly cancelled dozens and dozens of products with out notice. I noticed some whopper expensive items like the cookware line that sold for over $1,000 retail and $760 "wholesale." I purchased Nutripet dog food at $27 / 20lb which is equivalent to the highest end Science Diet.

I could not bring myself to purchase the vitamins on a regular basis. The CoEnz Q-10 is $42/bottle - one month supply. Free shipping on Ditto delivery was abruptly cancelled on 8/31/2000 with the explanation that it did nothing for increased sales and lamenting that catalog purchases and other items were being converted to bulk with no new measurable sales. I find this hard to believe.

You were expected to attend every open meeting, every rally, every function, and every seminar. After each of these events was the "nightowl" where you stay up to 2-3AM, eat pizza, and talk about your dreams at the feet of a Diamond or Emerald who plays the role of an Apostle. I came to my senses once again in October and decided to go dormant. Now I am going to bow out once again (I was in Amway in 1984) NEVER to bite on this fluff again. This year I spent roughly $800 on marketing materials, $1200 on premium costs of the products (offset by performance bonuses of roughly $330), 15 hours+per week, and transportation. Total loss was probably in the $2,500 range.

The supply chain argument fooled me for a while until I realized that the supply chain for Amway trickles down from Diamonds to the lowest. The deception is that you can order directly. The open meetings were extremely frustrating as the same dream mantra was spoken over and over. Surveys of visitors were taken on their favorite car or what kind of house they wanted. The marketing program of recruiting new people was secondary. They kept using a white board that no one could see even though audio-visual equipment was available. The room got intensely hot at the Hilton....it was the typical groupie fest.

.....thanks again Scott.

Michael

Hello, I ran into your website while searching for info on Quixtar. I have been an IBO at Quixtar for about 3 months now. I was contacted by one of my best friends of 4 years, shown the plan, and eventually I signed up. I signed up because he was very enthusiastic, and the stories I heard from other IBOs, emeralds, and diamonds made the offer look all the more tempting. Of course, once I signed up, my upline threw all the expenses, tapes, seminars, etc onto my back, as well as the guilt trip about buying my own products. This was exceptionally painful, because I am a college student living on my own, without much extra money to throw around. But I did it, I skipped meals, cut corners, canceled subscriptions, and even cut down my prescription medicine to continue to make ends meet. I see now why I did this, because I saw the mentality on these IBOs. It was a cult, everyone in their circle were the good guys, everyone outside were the bad guys. I wanted to quit, but I knew my friend of 4 years would look down on me for leaving. It hurt to know that those 4 years would be simply flushed down the toilet because of this damn business. I don't want him to think I'm a quitter or a loser, or negative, because I know I am not. I have decided to invest into my own programming business, because I have a passion and a talent with computers. I just today made the decision to quit, and I have to break this to my friend. I'm scared, this is not going to be easy. But I have to. My advice to anyone who reads this,....look at the people involved in your potential or current upline. Make sure they are TRULY happy with what they do, or you may end up blinded like they are.

Anonymous

Thank you for putting this website together. I read some of what you had to say, and I will definitely continue reading it when I have more time. I wish that my wife and I had read this last year before we got in. We gave up after a year and a half of being in Amway/Quixtar. We had a total of ten people in our downline at various times, and all but two of them have quit as well. I agree that uplines discourage selling and try to promote sponsorship as the way to make money. They tell you that bringing people into the business is the way to wealth. Another thing is that they brag about their sales figures, but they do not tell you that the majority of sales is distributors buying from themselves in an effort to make their 100 points. I am just glad that we did not spend as much money as we COULD have if we listened to everything we were told to buy from our upline.

Ray

You have gone Direct in my book.

After 3.5 years in the Britt downline I see truth in everything you have stated.

Anybody that goes to as much trouble as Britt does to tell you how honest he is you better have doubts about. I saw it all and heard it all and was only 5 deep from Bill Britt so it was pretty much full tilt "Britt System". I spent thousands getting a education I didn't want but will never forget.

Scott,

I have just spent on the upward of 6+ hours reading and reviewing the content on your website. I have to say that is very detailed. I am an IBO of almost one year and I have to say that all of the information that you

have presented on your site is as accurate as far as I can tell. I am confirming several items that were discussed on your page with my up line.

At the bottom of this letter is a copy of an e-mail I just sent to my sponsor. You have given me a great deal of information that I need to confirm personally with several of my up line. I am not a sails person per say, (that in it's self is a counter diction because I am an IBO). You haveopened my eyes to many facts that you completely spelled out for me.

Including the break down of the 6-4-2 plan, and how if you do not incorporate a large percentage, and focus on a large percentage, on retail.

You will only remain in the red unless you sponsor and teach many others how to go in the red too. And only then after they create a BV base for you to stand on, will you ever be able to produce a true net profit. One of the items that my up line direct has continually stated is that we need to go wide and do more retail. I am currently in the WWDB group. I have gathered little bits and pieces of info from friends and acquaintances in other lines of sponsorship, and have found out that if there is any line of sponsorship it would be the WWDB. I am currently one of those gray fussy people that is still riding the fence. I have sponsored one couple and they have done nothing but get their first order of products. I have never been a real sales person going one on one with the public at large.

I am currently re-evaluating weather to continue with Quixtar or to cut my losses on the "Tools". I have no regrets, what ever my decision. Everyone I have met through this organization is a good person and very well founded on morals. And in no way do I think that they intended or inflected any harm un to me, through fraud or in any other way. But, as a note I am giving you a peek into a letter that I wrote my sponsor immediately after reviewing a large amount of information on you site.

I greatly respect you for providing your opinions and as much fact and evidence to support your opinions.

Ok, Now I would like to ask one simple favor. That would be not to publish any reference to my name, E-Mail address, IP, or any other information that would uniquely identify me as an IBO. I would greatly enjoy any remarks by you and you only in reference to this message, NO SPAM! If you do intend on forwarding this e-mail to any one other than yourself, it would be greatly appreciated if you would also remove any header information enclosed in this e-mail. From all that I have read in your documentation, and the way you present it is very reassuring that you respect the privacy of others.

Thank you, and I look forward to any and all remarks that you may respond with.

I was an Ambot for three years, from age 17 to 20, if you can imagine. I won't even get into the money I lost, the terrible fights I had with my boyfriend, I the pressure. The worst part was the alienation. I was told by my upline that if someone was negative, that I should cut them out of my life.

No one even wanted to be around me, anyway, I was so weird. I would harass my friends and family to see the plan so I could get my quota of 15 plans a month. I have to face these people every day now. I never made a red cent, of course. The worst thing was that I was so vulnerable, going through those late adolescent years when you're supposed to be finding yourself. My upline and I stalked these two guys I went to school with after showing them the plan. I had never paid much attention to them before, now I was acting like their best friend. Over the past few years, both of them have died, one from cancer, the other from a rare disease. I'm left with the knowledge that the only reason i gave them my time was to coerce them to come to a seminar.

I was told what to wear, what to say, a lot of what not to do. No swearing, no negativity, no negative products. Religion was pushed on me. You had to hug everyone, even if you didn't want to. You had to let your upline into your apartment at 11:30 at night, even if you had to work at 4:00 am the next morning, your upline was a 45 year old man and you were there alone.

I'm glad I went through this because it made me grow up and not be so naive.

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