Great Quotes from Site Visitors
Here is a little collection of great cuts from feedback to my site.
"The high level guys do not make money off of the tapes, they make money off of the volume their products produce. The company provides the tapes as a motivational factor."
"This is going to bungie up your underware, but everyone of our distributors know about the profit in the tapes, books and seminars."
"There is no secret to the "tools" side of the business if you are with a respectable group. I will not deny or confirm (because I don't deal with any) that there are groups that are deceitful of that, but everybody in my organization and LOS knows that there is money in tools. We know that when we hit DD in Amway, Platinum in Quixtar that we can then take advantage in that business as well."
"no distributor can make money off of anyone buying tapes or books that is straight from the corporation"
"Now some organizations might profit from tools but I belong to Worldwide Group & no one from platinum to crown makes money on tools".
"Ron Puryear is the head of WWDB. He only briefly mentioned it in passing at an FED and you would really have had to have been paying attention to even hear it. He mentioned it within the context that once someone becomes Emerald things are really starting to happen with the business and they are also getting a tape break at that point."
"I belong to a group called World Wide Dream Builders. I don't think there is anything wrong with the direct to get paid for the tools"
"They told me about the tools (and the money the upline makes on them), they told me about the money they made (net profit) from just the business, and they explained the $3600 per year cost for the education system."
"As for the tools, our diamonds are not mysterious about the fact that there is money to be made in the system. There are no cover-ups or lies about what can be created in bonus money"
So do people make money on tools or not?
"Since we stopped buying tapes and going to functions and shopping elsewhere (except for a few products of Amway's we really like) it is amazing how much discretionary income we suddenly have."
"But every once in a while I like to come back (on the web) and visit so I can relive the agony, the lies the hype, the misrepresentations, and be thankful for all the money I'm now saving, and the free time I now have. Think of it I quit and now I'm free."
"Welcome to the wonderful word of Amway/Quixtar. See...this is where the AQMOs screw up here. A parasite is supposed to live off its host, not bleed it dry until it dies."
"Yea the tools are overpriced, but where else would I get the motivation, the success stories...Wal-Mart? Like most IBO's, I spent more than I earned in bonuses. However, I still feel that this is a great opportunity"
So is this supposed to be a business or a social club?
"I reached 4000 PV once. Personally sponsored 17 distributors, was 8 deep in three legs. Then the light came on about the tool business. One of my downline ordered a white board from Amway instead of from Internet services. What an unchristian, dreamstealing thing to do. Guess he thought it made sense to save a little money and get some BV on the same item he could have bought from upline. I thought my DD was going to have a fit. I asked him why he was upset and he said that buying this way wasn't duplicable!!!"
"INA have created a well disguised tape and book vending operation using mlm opportunity as a carrot on a stick. Smart!! With INA I don't think they even have a written contract with people as to what they'll pay out in tape bonuses; do you want to invest your future in an enterprise like INA that can pull the rug out from under you anytime? How is that different than the corporate world? "
"I supported the system 100% at first. Why? Because I had no reason not to. My DD, Emerald, and Diamond were all sincere and helpful. Looking back, they had to be...I was a minimum $112 / month (SOT, GG, BOM, Rally, Open) cash cow plus I never did less that 240 PV"
"Our line of sponsorship is the Bedard Diamond Organization, under the Yager System, and Storms Enterprises. BSM's are HEAVILY promoted at functions. You might even say that attendees are "guilted" into buying them. You are told that if you don't buy tools, you aren't doing what it takes to "grow your business". Another interesting quote was this, "If you want to succeed, you need tools to do so. The only method of business growth promoted is the system. Tools, functions, open meetings, 100 PV/BV, and Sponsorship. Retailing is not even discussed."
Not knowing the business facts
"I would answer no, I would not invest in a company that lost 28% of their sales. I don't see it in the Amway Corporation. That is why they keep growing and growing".
This guy is obviously oblivious to the fact that Amway Sales fell from $7.0 billion in 1997 to $5.0 billion in 1999.
"Amway and Quixtar are both multi-billion dollar companies"
At the time I had received this comment Quixtar had only $250 million in sales reported.
"Amway core-line products have taken a 28% dip in sales. Well when you add over 20,000 more SKU's to the pile then of course this is going to happen. No longer are distributors restricted to buying/selling soap."
Gee, I thought when a company expanded a product line by adding more items total sales would increase. Is he saying now that people can buy other stuff that they don't want to buy Amway soap anymore? Anyway, the addition of the 20,000 Quixtar SKU's came after the 28% sales drop. This is another attempt by the uniformed to debate what they don't understand.
"Independent projections, as shown on MSNBC, states that Quixtar will generate 3 to 4 billion dollars in the first year."
"Quixtar will do $100 billion in its first year"
Quixtar had sales of 100 million in the first 100 days. To reach the 3-4 billion mark they should have done about $900 million in the first 100 days.
"That is incredible because in the two businesses (Quixtar and Amway) there are only about 2 million IBOs in North America - so about another 28-38 MILLION people are going there because an IBO told them about it. On day one, the site was physically 1.5 times larger than MSN, and it has already increased about 50%."
Quixtar had at most 1.6 million unique visitors in their very best month of September.
"I really don't see how a business that is debt free and makes 7 billion dollars a year could possibly be a scam."
Obviously they didn't consider the "tools scam", and that Amway had sales at the time of only $5.7 billion.
Mon, 8 Nov 1999"it is true that you cannot make millions from selling a few amway products, but, and this is how i know you have no idea what you are talking about, amway have never once claimed this. as any self respecting person who commenting on a subject would first find out the actual facts, you obviously cannot be bothered to do, i will enlighten you. amway happens to be the number one home shopping organisation in the world, it has a turnover of over $7bn per year, we have been around for over 50 years".
As of the time of this letter Amway had just celebrated their 40th anniversary and had reported sales of just $5.7 billion at "estimated retail", this guy really knows his facts and he is telling me to get the actual facts!
The Microsoft Relationship
"A billion dollars in backing, Microsoft betting there reputation + $200 million of there own on it, hell I'd say that was a pretty big bang, enough said I'm in."
"Hey thanks for forwarding the microsoft thing, I just got it confirmed via an amvox yesterday from uptop, go right ahead! I could let you hear it, if it was a practical to do so (maybe I could get the internet people to put it in a wav file for you to hear). Anyway. Info was straight from a frys multimedia guy, go ahead and send that too."
"The deal as I understand it is, Microsoft has ~ $250 Million invested in their link to Quixtar and are betting their internet (what was it?), presents or reputation on the internet through this link with the most wiz bang stuff that there ever was, ok, it's a little hyped, so what isn't?."
"Just last week Bill Gates was interviewed on Television and he was asked the question about upcoming internet opportunities. He very plainly named Quixtar as the newsest and most exciting new concept on the web."
"Just a few days ago one of my mates introduced me to the Quixtar starting with: "This is a new IBM, Microsoft and Amway initiative... "
"He kept talking about a new internet breakthrough business him and his brothers are starting, and are partnering up with Microsoft."
"The thing is, they are kind sincere people who have had past involvement's with "Amway" But they kept saying that this is not Just about Amway, that other people (Microsoft etc.) are involved too. Sounded very legit."
I think we all know by now that Microsoft had no investment in Quixtar.
"Why are there so many people succeeding at this? Why is Amway the 2nd largest producer of millionares?"
"When you can explain to me the amount of millionaires produced by Amway every year if it doesn't work then please do."
"It was in Forbes list of Millionaires, multiple times."
"I see dozens of millionairs in ILD."
"You can become a Multi-Multi Millionaire. I mean I have seen it first hand. And have been inside of the 20,000 sq foot homes and Leer Jets and 8 car garages (All paid off because of the residual income)"
"because you would have known that a company that has grown as this one had, and created 10% of America's Millionaires (more than any other profession much less company), had to be doing something right."
"You know that the 40 plus years Amway has been around is exceptional, it has produced more millionairs than any other business"
"It's obvioulsy worked for 40 years, and made some people very wealthy, almost as many as Microsoft."
"The Amway business has created more individual millionaires than just about any other business out there."
"Amway has produced over 2000 millionares, only one other company has produced more (Microsoft)."
"Amway is not the biggest creator of millionaires in the world, Microsoft is, they have made 3300 millionaires. Amway is second with 2200 millionaires (net worth of over $1,000,000 dollars). Atlanta has a talk show regarding business and they reported it one night during a segment."
Each one of these site visitors was asked to document the source of this great "ama-rumor" on Ama-millionaires. Only one replied to my question, saying it he thought it was in Forbes, but could not document an issue date. For a little further discussion into the "millionaires" ideaclick here
"It is also funny that when the FTC took Away to court the judge threw the case out saying that Amway was the best, most ethical form of entrepreneurship he had seen in America."
I think the site visitor took some editorial liberties here!
"Yes Quixtar uses the same marketing plan and they should because it is the ONLY one that has been FTC approved so there won't be any more legal fights like there were in the 70's."
"Are you aware that those numbers have to be approved by the government before they were made available on those slides? I Believe if there were any discrepancies in the slides that the government officials that reviewed it would have picked it up. I believe the government's math before yours. "
"if you should require any products then i can honestly say i would never consider supplying you with them. after all the amway opputunity and products are for a select group of people who are open minded and want to save some money and have better things to do with there lives than bad mouthing a genuine company who fought the law to outlaw real scams such as pyramid sales."
No Debate of the facts
"I have no business or economic training, so most of the fine details in your site are over my head".
"I do not dispute your theory of the "negative sum", I just don't feel that I can debate this with you at this juncture. By our current organization and the length of time we have been in the business I am not in a position to debate the full effect."
"About 90% of what you talk about on here I can refute and bring out the correct/positive side (with the facts) but I just don't have the time because (as you can imagine) I am building my Quixtar business."
I know you must be used to receiving e-mails from current distributors disputing your data. I'm not going to do that.
"I'm certainly not in a position to dispute any of the information you have presented, as you have obviously gone to exhaustive lengths to create the opinions you present. I'm not entirely convinced of the complete accuracy of your findings, but as I said, I'm not in a position to dispute them either. You must have spent an incredible amount of time focussing your energies on all things bad about the Amway business? I'm sure that if the majority of Distributors where to expend similar amounts of energy toward building their businesses, the overall success rate and income levels would be far higher than current levels?"
"I personally have not done the research myself, I have not needed to because it has already been done by the corporation. I do not waste such valuable time doing price comparisons, I have better things to do with my time."
"I read you site with some interest. I will not argue any of your points."
"It is very sad that you had to spend this time doing this site for it is all a twist of the truth . We will go on with this and leave you in our dust to freedom and a better way of life"
"Alas, it would take me much to long to pick apart everything that was wrong with this site."
"I probably could not prove or disprove much of the information that is on your sight. You have obviously done quite a bit of research."
It is really funny that they all say I'm wrong but haven't done personal research or don't have time to tell me what is wrong in my site! When they do their own research then I get replies like these below.
"I've been in and out of the business over the last four months; finally did a price comparison and decided that I couldn't sell my friends on losing money - then found your site which confirmed my own price analysis".
"I quickly recognized I was not saving compared to comparable products bought at a discount store"
"I have been in the Quixtar business since Sept when it first kicked off. Like you said I have listen to many higher in rank about how they made money with the business. But as time goes on I am seeing your view point very clear. When I try to show the plan to people the first thing that comes up is that "how are we saving money? When the prices are higher?"
"Retail Sales Rule? What retail sales rule? I think that what you're talking about again has to do with lines of sponsorship."
"BSMAA? I'm fairly sure I have never seen or signed one of these just like the retail customer report papers that were torn-up by my sponsor when we broke the kit"
Ken McDonald 9/11/99 Amway Corp. Leadership Hotline
"Here's what we saw. We're averaging 30 to 40 million hits per day. I mean, that's absolutely incredible, and perhaps an even better measurement than hits is page views. We're averaging almost 20 million page views per day".
"And the statistic that I found even more telling was this one, with all of the millions and millions of page views and all of the millions of people that are coming through here with the thousands and thousands of orders."
"out of the LITERALLY millions of people coming to the site"
I guess Ken didn't check with pcdataonline.com to see that "all of the millions of people", and "literally millions of people" means just 1.6 million.
"I on the other hand I remain completely open minded and believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, I will also admit when someone is right as soon as their point is proven to me, but not until then. It doesn't mean I will change my mind though."
Even if you prove it and they accept it, they won't change their mind? Sounds like a personality disorder to me.
"My husband and I are recycled IBO'S, we were in 20 years ago and our only excuse is we were young & dumb".
So now that you are old and dumb, why you are doing Amway once again?
"Actually 65% of all purchased is paid back to the Distributors in the Business Plan, the portion which normally pays for all of the "Middle Men."
A little research into the Amway performance bonus schedule shows that at most 32% of sales (BV) could be paid out. Quixtar recently reported a pay-out of $30million on $100 million in sales. This is only 30%.
"I wish I'd never heard of Amway."
"The "Amway period" of my life is well behind me, and I am slowly forgetting all that happened to me during that time, but I did learn a valuable lesson; Amway sucks!"
"Since then, I have read and heard nothing but continued bad reports, and continue to hear the false "pied piper" propaganda about Quixtar ... repeating the same story and history for Amway, but just changing the name to Quixtar. ... just glad I got out in time before I lost my shirt, and all my friends."
" As is sometimes the case in any business, there were some relationship issues with our business associates(upline) that were not satisfactory either. If I do reenter the business I will be more careful in selecting an upline"
"Obviously you had some bad experiences in either the line of sponsorship you may have been in like us, or the wrong person showed you this and you never were shown how to build this business properly."
"Obviously you have had a very bad experience in your own organization when you were in. Too bad."
"It sounds like your upline was not very good! That's too bad! You seem like an intelligent individual and they really took you for a ride or something."
"I am sorry that your experience with Amway led you to some really unethical people."
"AFTER READING SOME OF YOUR ARTICLES, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH AMWAY OR MAYBE JUST A BAD UPLINE ."
"I tried to get a line of sponsorship from the company, but they told me to go to my direct. Since I couldn't stand him when I was actively building the business, I sure don't want to talk to him to make conversation."
"There are some up line distributors that push the "tools" more than the products. Different people run their business' different ways."
"I don't know much about the Dexter Yager side of the organization but it looks like there's a bunch of VERY misguided people over there, and a lot of lives have been destroyed. Again, it's not the company that's bad, it's the misguided IBO's that ruin everything."
So how does one pick an ethical upline before investing a lot of time in a group? My upline bad? He is head of the Amway ethics committeeclick here
"I never made money other then the money I bet my sponsor I could get more sponsored in one month than he could. I won the bet...He paid me...it was a short time later he did not send his paper work in to re-up."
"As I said before, we do not expect to make a profit this year and any person going into a new business (one with any sense anyway) would not expect to profit their first year either"
"Now, we claimed a loss on our income tax for 1997, 1998, and 1999."
"I have been around this business since 1993. Have I spent more money than I have made? Absolutely."
Did you ever report a profit? "No, not even the month we went silver. There were so many team events that as "leaders" we needed to attend, so many business meetings, rallies, functions, tapes, books, winner's circles, Eagle Teams, Britt School, Go Diamond, "quality time with upline and downline- etc,etc-you know the story."
"After 5 years in the business we have yet to declare a profit."
I thought the SA4400 said that the average IBO makes gross profit of $1056/year. How can someone report a loss when distributors only talk about profits? Did they forget to say what typical distributor expenses would be? Possibly reporting a loss was never discussed in the SA4400.
"My undeclared loss on the business was $3900 per year (function tickets, tapes, books, airplane tickets, hotel and food costs, automobile gas, wear & tear on my personal car, other business building materials for use with my downline, new business suit)".
"We lost about $10,000 dollars the first year, mostly on trips to rallies and "tools". We were told by the upline that he had never known anyone to make it in Amway who didn't attend all functions."
"On "average" the first year cost to an IBO is $3,000. What small business can be started with an initial investment of $3,000? And any new business is going to suffer a loss over the first 5 yrs. Look at Amazon.com. I'm sure you see them as a credible company (since they sell stocks)."
"We went to every seminar and every major function as well as bought the two SOT/GoGetter tapes a week that our upline was very insistent that we subscribe to in order to build a strong business. We bought a number of books as well. This all added up to over $10,000.00 each year."
"I spent approximately $50,000 dollars on just tapes/books/rallies and functions during that 8 year period. I made approximately $15,000 during that 8 year period. I hit Silver Producer. 7500 PV in one month. Never hit it again though."
"I spent 6 years and a lot of money while in the business. 29 personals, over 150 in downline, and all I have to show is a bankruptcy slip."
"Yes, I lost money in the business last year"
What new business has maybe $2,400/year (100PV/month) in individual store sales, with a maximum gross profit of $600/year and can afford to spend $3,000 each year in overhead? Oh, by the way Amzon.com sells books not stock. Their stock happens to be publicly traded.
"Obviously the average distributor (9 out of 10) loses money after investing in his or her business." "The average person does not make money in Amway."
So if this were a part time business for average people, why would they join then to lose money?
"I am not as yet profitable. However, I question your motives for maintaining this site."
I thought the motivation was obvious when I tell people how to avoid losing money with their Amway business!
"As an Amway distributor who hasn't built the business to any successful level let me say this. You seem to really like Walmart. Why I don't succeed at Amway is probably not the products or its cost because if the consumer identifies with it they will buy it."
Fri, 14 May 1999 -Sean"I will net about $1300 this month." (after I asked him how much he was making)
Mon, 25 Oct 1999 Sean's wife"Yes, he was fibbing when he told you he made $1,300/month. It is pretty bad that we had 40 or more people and the most we have made was $180 a month. The real money in Amway is from the tools and you don't get that until you go direct. "
You have got it all wrong bud. Again I am not going to send you my income on the net. But I am making a good income. At the direct level (which I will reach soon I will make close to $4000 a month. That is without tapes."
IBO's love to tell me their gross income when it is large, but will not tell me their NET after paying the lion's share to their downline, and business expenses. I asked this guy what his NET was, and like typical, he told me how much more other people were making and not what he netted.
"As far as my giving you our information, and don't take this as running scared, but I would not disclose my income information to anyone other than our accountant and the IRS. That would just be down right stupid on my part. And my downlines income and expenses are not my business either, let alone yours. I feel a persons income and expenses are personal and priviledged information. We did not get into this business blind, we were well aware of the income versus expense issue. And quite frankly we do not worry about weither a large profit is made this year, we enjoy what we are doing, and the people we are doing it with and that to us is more important than financial gain. I believe that no matter what you do in life, you must enjoy it or it just isn't worth doing, and no this is not Amway brainwashing, this has always been my philosophy.
I had challenged this IBO to tally up total income and expenses of his downline to verify the "negative sum game" AQMO system business model. Apparently he had no interest in seeing if the business as a whole generates enough gross profit it let everyone breakeven "as a group" or not.
"If there is a 1% of chance to make success a 99% to fail, it's your own decision among which one you would like to be."
"Total money lost, who knows. Probably in the neighborhood of $3500. Call it money spent on education. I learned a lot of what not to do."
"Sandy & I had $4000.00+ loss for the first 3 yrs. In business."
"The only way I made money was by retailing"
"6 months in I had already invested $3,000 in the system's "continuing education program".
"My wife and I have been IBOs for 2+ years in World Wide Dreambuilders and claimed about $5000 Canadian in business expenses each year. We had six personal downline and lost money each month."
"Again, it costs a LOT of money to run any business, especially Amway/Quixtar."
"They are still in Amway, too, after 13 years. They pretty much gave up on building the traditional business when Quixtar came on the scene. Still, I do not think they have recovered since the IRS declaration that their business was a hobby and not a real business and subsequently disallowed well over $10,000 in deductions over three years because of concurrent losses being reported."
"Granted, the prices may be a little higher than what you'd be at Wal-Mart or K-Mart, but many of the products are a much higher quality."
"The discount Amway/Quixtar provides is not going to rival the discount houses such as Price Club and Sam's but the point is to be able to buy from yourself and develop a business as well."
"The products are a little more expensive but you are getting quality and quantity all in one. Wal-mart may be cheeper but the soap does't work very well."
"Let me say, most of the things I get now are Kroger's brand and are very inexpensive (I rarely buy from my business)"
"We couldn't make money even with the product because they were not price competitive. In addition, the prices were not what they were cracked up to be...there was no savings and we ended up spending more than we used to. PV (personal volume...what we get paid on) was a lot lower on alot of items, not how it was presented to us at all."
So if you like the Amway products BUY them. Just be aware there may not be enough people who share your desire for the premium products in order to grow your business fast. Just look at Amway's overall sales growth to see all the people rushing to buy the products. How come IBO's only buy Amway products until they quit, and then decide that they don't really value them enough to warrant continued purchase?
"However, Wal-Mart doesn't send me a check every month for shopping there either."
It doesn't matter if I spend less overall at Wal-Mart!
"I still buy a lot of Core line products that I like more than the store brands and have a few retail customers who feel the same way. But let's face it. Underwear is underwear and I'm not going to pay a premium for a little PV."
"They finally gave me a card with a web site www.quixtar.com which I found and just looked at a few prices. I quickly pointed out that all the prices I found were a lot higher than retail stores i.e.: paper towels more expensive than Bounty! and toilet tissue more than Charmin! How can I sell something like that? No thank You!"
"Since, I don't see any change in the direction of the business, I suspect it will get a lot more interesting and sad. The dwindling numbers at seminar/rally are really scary. Frankly 70% of those there are not up to having a ghost of a chance in this type business. I would enjoy selling the products but who can sell $500. water filters, $50. multi vitamins, or the other products which are consistently not price competitive at dist. cost. Frankly, if you have the ability to sell product, it would be far more profitable to find a better priced line."
"I wished I saw your site a little sooner before going into Quixtar. I wasn't in it to make any money. I just wanted a wholesale price on items and if some of my family and friends decided to buy from me, great. I’ve found that not only are the products not saving 30 percent, but they’re almost double what I would pay at Costco. I would slam my sponsor but I figure she’s just gullible and is preaching only what she hears." Site Visitor - Hawaii
"Once I tried to get my free box of Double X after purchasing 10. My upline was who I had to go through to get this to happen. At any rate they talked me out of requesting my free box because it would take away pv and bv."
Quixtar is Not Amway
"Quixtar is Amway and anyone who says it is not is misled, But only better faster and stronger!"
"No Quixtar and Amway are NOT the same - not by a long shot. Yes, they share the same MLM plan...."
"The glitch in that is that they have a plan onCD Rom which shows the connection between the two, Amway and Quixtar."
So Quixtar is or isn't Amway even if the plan is the same?
Dream Stealing and Amway
"By the way-Thanks for presenting this Article on the internet-One of my new recruits read your article and I think she will probably quit. These types of articles let me know who has the will to build the business and who doesn't."
"I forgive you. And the material on that page will never hurt me, but it may steal someones god given dreams and I wouldn't want to go there"
"I really believe you are just hurting your self. I will pray for you."
"GOD BLESS YOU ,SCOTT,I DONT USUALLY LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAILED IN LIFE BUT I WILL MAKE AN EXCEPTION WITH YOURS..."
Who ever said researching a business classifies you as a failure in life?
"You Are A Dream Stealer...May God Put Strong Judgment on you as you are putting on good, moral people.....I feel sorry that you focus on false negativity "
"In WWDB the families have less than 1% divorce rate. Compared to over 50% everywhere else."
"I lost my marriage to Amway five years ago. Anyway, my ex says he can't afford to pay me support, but six years ago said that he would become a "multi-millionaire" in two years. "
"This Quixtar scam almost cost me my marriage."
"I recently got out of a relationship because my boyfriend had been bitten by that "American Dream" desire. He has been consumed with this business- making it seem like he loved the business more than me. It is funny how Quixtar promotes families and spending time with them, yet there is no way you can do that when you are "building the business."
"I emailed you a year ago when my fiance first got into Amway. I ended the relationship last fall. It was very tiring to hear the ''if you love me...you do or need to do this''..... There was no other way to get past Amway than for me to end it."
"It reached the point where I was spending so much time on the business but not getting anything in return, my marriage was falling apart"
"My former best friend and his wife disappeared into Amway almost 3 years ago"
"Over the next four years we had a net loss of $4000.00, but mostly we alienated many friends. But I finally came to the realization that as I was getting to the end of my commitment the Amway friends were drifting (RUNNING) away. Finally I quit, and there were no longer any contacts with all of the new friends we had made."
"I can't tell you how this whole think has affected our family. I can't relate to my brother at all, and it's nice to know that other people have and are going through this. It seems to me that my brother can't have a conversation if it's not related to Amway. They eat, breathe, and drink it 24/7."
"But there is no way I wanted to get involved in this. Already I don't like what this is doing to them. Making them very manipulative with there friends. You don't USE your friends like that you know? That Stinks!"
"I was asked to meet a friend of mine. He was up on vacation. I was happy to see him although he was quite vague as to his purpose. I met him and he started on the program you describe on your site. This is not the first time I have been approached by "old friends." Each one totally avoided the PURPOSE of their desire to see me; they just wanted to talk to me in person. The sad part is that it hurts. I no longer consider these guys my friends. I have lost all respect for them. I want to improve my financial future, but I want to do it honestly without imposing and alienating my family and friends."
"My wife, Katty, fell as any unsuspecting pray into Amway's hands. This cult-like way of life that she has absorbed is killing both our family and our finances. "
"Fortunately, after all these years, I have re-established the relationships and offered my profound apologies, humbling myself and admitting the error of my ways in choosing my new "friends" over my own flesh and blood, as well as my REAL friends."
"This is really a sad story cause I believe that this hyped up , get rich in 2-5 years scheme has taken away one of the best friends I've ever had. His upline told him for two months not to tell me anything. I was really offended by that. He believes these people in his group and his upline are great new friends and likes hanging around with them. and if your old friends don't join, they're not real friends..crap."
"I don't understand how total strangers can make a person turn their backs on people they've know and trusted for years and make them believe it's the right thing. It really hurts and there's nothing I can do."
"The manipulations were getting too much for me as well as the complete lack of integrity".
"I was also made use of at a "Seminar"; claims about my so-called recruitment figures were quite simply untrue, but this did not deter people who were obviously 'on the make' from tweaking the facts and thereby gaining kudos."
" However, words and the English language being my passion, the one thing that annoyed me most, and continues to annoy me, is the misuse of "EDIFY" in the Amway/Quixtar training manual. You will doubtless recall that some banana-brain has decided, in true Readers Digest fashion, to rake up what they mistakenly believe to be an arcane word, and 'explain' it to the Ignorant (i.e. us). Their definition of "edify" is "to build up somebody's reputation, and inflate their ego", whereas my dictionary (surprise, surprise) defines it as "educating by example" - a concept that is completely foreign to the Corporation.
If the Amway Intelligentsia were to discover this "unusual" word's real meaning, they would have to find another one, and then Heaven help the English Language."
"If these people were such good Christians, they'd present all of the facts instead of answering valid questions with smoke and mirrors. "
"I felt bad about my questions that she couldn't answer. Like why would a company invest in a website for their products and only be available to those people with an access code? How can you sell products that are basically more expensive than our local retail outlets? She tried desperately to say that the whole idea was not for you to sell anything but to establish a chain, she went vacant when I said that surely eventually someone on the line had to sell something for anyone to make a profit.
Whether intentional or unintentional I feel that we have been abused that our home and sense of friendship has been violated by this non-sense."
"Another thing I notice they always try to lure you in by trying to relate to you. Whatever interest you name you have, they automatically pretend they like it too, to gain your trust."
I find a lot of what you had to say very insightful, especially your questions you wrote to give to people who are seeing the business plan. These questions are important and should be answered. In fact you should send those to Amway corporation and have them answer all of them and then post their answers on your site.
I have. It is too bad that Amway will not answer the questions. So much for a "credible company with noble intentions.
"He already damaged the relationship by offering the following advice: "if your family doesn't buy from you, they don't love you.""
"And if you get to a certain pin level, shouldn't you be able to speak from the stage? Nope. There's a gay couple in the bay area (architect and MD) that floor absolutely won't let speak or even go across stage together---"
"We were told to stay away from giving people tapes that mentioned Amway or Quixtar. Only the ones that were produced by Internet Services were recommended. They tell you not to mention Amway to a prospect."
"My sponsor is still doing totally unprofessional things, and I don't like what he is doing. Like telling us all we have to order between $100 and $300.00 a month from ourselves and get sot and amvox and MCI well he doesn't order himself even 100.00 a month. (Can't tell you how I know that, I just know it. All he has every month is MCI BIG DEAL! and he buys store bought dog food and other stuff too! And he is pressuring me to buy the Amway dog food. "
"I already know that they are not people that I want to be in business with. They are deceitful, but unfortunately, don't see it that way because they think they are helping people by what they are doing."
"I am not bitter about the money I lost while attending meetings, functions, and buying tapes. I learned A LOT and it totally changed my thinking. I am disappointed that people use such highly emotional subjects such as patriotism and God (Christianity) in order to keep people plugged into 'The System' in order to make money off of them, and at the same time NOT tell them that they ARE making huge amounts of income from all of this. It is technically not illegal but HIGHLY immoral and shows lack of character. I would not want to stand before God one day and have to answer for this. God knows our hearts and motives anyway."
"I was pressed to agree to a 'get-together' in my home where they would introduce me to an incredible e-commerce opportunity. My neighbours could not give me any information beforehand, not even the name of the company they were involved with, and the meeting could not take place unless my husband would participate."
"I laugh to my self whilst listening to some of the spiel that is sometime spoken by IBO's at their meetings, and it makes me feel like shouting out a few lines from Return Of The Jedi....
Jabba the Hut: You weak minded fool. He's using an old Jedi Mind Trick!"
"One famous quote I recall when being pushed into attending so many functions was, "By attending this major function, your business will have been pushed forward six months towards being successful!" Hey! Six months of hard work all in 72 hours!! I, of course, was duped into believing this lie and perpetuated it to my downline. "
"I was prospected by someone from Quixtar and politely turned them down after I instantly recognized what I had received from three years of cold-contacting training. (I asked him if it was Quixtar and he readily admitted it... which showed lack of training on his part. "Answer a question with a question." was our motto. :)"
"I attended a new IBO training seminar last night hosted by Jerry Bogus. This man claims to hold Christian values but was telling people that if they need to miss church to show a plan then they should. I was stunned at this lack of respect for the scriptures especially by a so-called Christian"
"She is still ''building the business'' and thinks I am a loser as she does with most of her former friends."
" I WILL SEE PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN ANOTHER NETWORK MARKETING MEETING YOUR JUST ANOTHER LOOSER !!!!!" " STOPPP!!!!! BLAMING GOD !! REMEMBER DON'T BE A LOOOOSER!!!" " STOP PUTING THE BLAME ON GOD !!! BY THE WAY IAM NOT IN THE BUSINES REMEMBER DONT BE A LOOOOSER OK HAVE A GOOD DAY"
I suppose I 'll be one of those they call loosers.
"I was foolish enough to fall for this. I ended up sitting through 6 hours of a bullshit pep-talk, but a "former GM executive" about how all of us with a dream are just corporate slaves. "Broke people with jobs" is the term they like to use a lot."
"I am so sick and tired of people giving this business the bad-mouth and they are broke, busted, nobody losers!!"
"All of them were superficial. They all seemed like robots with rubber smiles."
"When I went to the meeting/seminar I was amazed when everyone stood up to madly applauded her. I refused to stand and really questioned what I had gotten myself into. Very cultish. She proceeded to describe a trip all these distributors took together and what a happy family they were, but then turned around and berated these distributors for not working hard enough....her tone of voice bordering on abuse."
"I had been invited to a seminar (yesterday), expecting to enhance my knowledge about the internet. However, to my disgust I encountered a cult like atmosphere. There was talk about distributors giving up, and how they had to keep going. About encouragement, but little about the actual internet."
"I didn't like all of the "hush hush" he kept telling like do not speak of the business until we can show the plan. No talking. It almost appears to me like a cult in a way - like we are the puppets to the upline - you have to follow what they say."
"They are so into it--they actually seemed brainwashed. "
Dodging the Questions
"When I asked a concrete question, such as how exactly do they make money, and how much, they immediately tried to go around the question and change the topic. When I stated that I wasn't getting an answer and re-asked the question, they did the whole thing again, as though they were programmed."
"When I asked him about what % of people are members, merchants, and IBO's...he quickly said that he is focusing on IBO cause that's where the money is at and will be in the future...then he started rambling about focusing on one thing and about direction, he's smooth."
"I got some of the "Ama-talk" you describe from his upline, and not once did I get a straight answer. These guys are experts at evasion."
"As you know, these meetings are more about selling "the dream" than anything resembling a factual discussion surrounding the strategic planning and execution of a sound business plan. 55 minutes of "dream" and 5 minutes of "plan" was my first clue that credibility and honesty were not in the room that night."
"And you hit the nail on the head when you referred to the fact that there's so much they DON'T tell you! It was all very sketchy and lacked the answers to many of the questions I posed to them."
"I kept asking the presenter if the company at the top of the food chain was Amway and I had to ask the question four times before I got a straight answer."
"I was trying to research Quixtar because I could not get a direct answer from my "recruiter"."
"I'm ever so thankful I ran across your site. It was extremely helpful and insightful. You managed to answer each and every question I've had all along. Funny, no one with Quixtar could do that!"
"A lot of questions went unanswered in my mind during the meeting. You probably answered them all."
"I started asking lots of questions and got half-ass answers, I went to find the answers for myself and also found your site. "
"A friend of mine wants me to get into Quixtar - The people I talked with were so un-straightforward"
"I tried to ask as many questions as possible before we signed up, but got unclear/smug answers and I didn't feel encouraged to ask any other questions"
"The more questions I asked my friend's upline, which was a private, one on one conversation, the more he appeared to get irritated with me. He never gave me any straight answers."
"I asked him, point-blank, "Is it Amway?" He replied, "No, it's not Amway." After hearing the 2 hour Quixtar pitch from his upline (OK, it's not~directly~ Amway ;o)), spending 3 hours on a separate occasion at my friends house - asking questions (and getting no real answers), listening to 6 AMO tapes that he lent me, reading 'Dream-Biz.com', 'Who Stole My Cheese'(awesome book by the way) and 'Amagram', looking at the plan backwards and forwards, and doing my own online research I've concluded that my friend has been hood-winked."
"someone forgot to tell you it takes work to make it at anything and Amway"
"Amway is not a get rich quick scheme, nor is it a guaranteed bag of riches for anyone. It takes hard work dedication and inventiveness in marketing all the products in your area."
"It reached the point where I was spending so much time on the business but not getting anything in return"
It takes only hard work and wanting to know the truth and you can be successful in a Quixtar business.
"It is very difficult to make a profit in the Amway or Quixtar business if you do not put a lot of hard work into it on a consistent basis and treat it as a business instead of a hobby."
"I was starting to get tired of the system consuming my life when after all it was supposed to be a 5 to 15 hour per week plan."
"Let me close with this. I'm sure that this business can be built with honesty, integrity and hard work. But it will become your life and you must be prepared to sacrifice any other endeavors that you might want to pursue."
"My wife and I got involved in this MLM, I knew what it was and what was involved and opted to put in the hours (5 - 15 isn't realistic) that it takes to grow a business."
"I have gone to two Quixtar meetings and do not like all of the hype."
Buying your Pin
"I got to 2500 through personal purchases primarily; hit that the month I bought the commercial phone system from the catalog for the office and some office furniture( still have all of it btw)"
Sacrifices for the system
"When someone has to spend their grocery money on tapes and books, and their kids starve, there is something seriously wrong. Our sponsors, for one of the major functions, could only afford the price of the admission tickets, so they slept in their compact car. Both of them... I felt sick for them when they told me that. But it was so important to them to go, because Pat felt sure that Dexter Yager could help him figure out what he was doing wrong, and help him become successful. He doesn't have it in him to lie."
"Bill Britt got over 100 no's before he got anyone in? And his organization is over half the net worth of Amway! "
"THE WORLDWIDE SYSTEM WORKS. AND THE KEY WORD HERE IS WORLD WIDE GROUP. THEIR TRAINING SYSTEM. ACCOUNTS FOR 80% OF AMWAY'S BUSINESS, NOW QUIXTAR'S"
Can it be that two lines of sponsorship account for 130% of Amway's business leaving Network 21 and the Yager lines completely out?
"The last numbers I heard were that WWDB accounts for 40% of the distributor force, 60% of all volume Amway has is from our group."
"Look at the figures that the World Wide Group has. We make up only 15% of the entire number of IBO's within Quixtar. Yet we pull 45% of the products that go through Quixtar."
"Most in the business do much more than 300pv, but that is a start. Most do around 500pv a month" WWDB distributor.
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