Here is some mail I have received from site readers.  It is becoming clearer that prospects are starting to ask more and detailed questions from their potential sponsor, and they are not getting the answers. Click here for: Letters from the MLM survivor's page. The newest replies are at the bottom.

Scott,

Last week, a friend approached me about an internet business opportunity. I attended a large group meeting with other interested people and then had a follow-up meeting with my friend and his sponsors. My intuition was buzzing at the lack of detail that was provided. My friend allowed me to review his Quixtar Business Compendium. I was shocked by the lack of detail contained in this resource.

After viewing several pages that focused on bashing Quixtar - I found your site. Your site was the only one to provide a logical/business based approach to better understanding the Quixtar "business opportunity".

Because of your site, I am convinced that the $70.00 for the registration fee to become a Quixtar IBO can be better spent else where.

Thank you, thank you.

With Kind Regards,

Keith

Thank you for your detailed information on Quixtar. I guess I was looking at quite a few illegal pages when I first checked out Quixtar. I am a techie and I wanted to get into Quixtar to expand my Web page business. I think that a Web portfolio full of password protected Web sites without Meta tags is a waste of time. Thanks for detailing their rules about posting Web pages. I have to agree with you, that Amway is not using the strengths of the Web to enhance their business.

You saved me, I'm sure, much time, money, and aggravation, not to mention friends and family. I am a Systems Manager for a large insurance company in Florida, I'm sure you can guess who. The area of my responsibility is Financial so when someone begins to talk money in business I listen. It blows me away at how many of these obviously well educated people get themselves into this 'Business' and act like cattle going to slaughter. I have warned my family and friends of this reinvention of the American Dream and can only hope that they listen.

Aloha Scott.

I was given the "talk" by someone trying to get me to join Quixtar. From the information on your site, I was ready when the person gave me a follow-up call! My questions for him:

Q: how long have you been in business with Amway?

A: 5 years

Q: So that I can anticipate how much I might be making in 5 years, can you tell me how much YOU claimed as business PROFIT on your 1998 taxes?

A: ah, I can't put my finger on that right away....

Q: how about 1997? How much did you net in 1997? Using you as my example, I'd like to anticipate how much I might make in a few years.

A: Did you see the copy of my check for $4000! That was just ONE check!! I showed you the book of millionaires, all from Amway!

Q: yes, but how much did you have to spend in order to earn that $4000? After your expenses, what were your profits from that $4000? Please contact me again once you can tell me what your profits were for 1998.

humm, do you think I will hear from him again????

Thanks for the info I have been struggling with the decision to join or not the World Wide dream system. The other night when our sponsor was over to our house going over a few minor details which had not been discussed earlier. It really hit me hard when he said its not all about recruiting people to sign up with Quixtar and use their great services while being rewarded points, you need to also buy and resell Amway products. He said this is where the profits are made. That really disappointed me cause the last thing my wife and I wanted was to have to sell soap- beauty products. We have friends in Washington State that are successful with the business and they have the personality for it, but I am still not sold on the concept of selling the products to my neighbors and whomever. Tom

Dear Scott,

Your site re: Amway was quite revealing and helped us understand few things. Here is our problem - our close relative is one of those, whom you wrote about, sucked in (and out?) by Amway, withdrawn, rejecting any arguments. Scott, are you aware of any medicine, which could help? We really don't want him to spend six years to learn, like so many others have done.

Thank you so much for the time you put into your website. My best friend just got into Quixtar and after 2 nights of listening to her doctor (which got her into it!), I was so angry! I went back to the old saying "If it seems too good to be true, it is!". I was feeling guilty for saying no. Then I decided to research on the web and came across your site! Now I have lost the guilty feeling and wish so much that my friend had not gotten involved! Your site was very informative and answered many questions that they could not! There was an argument for everything we said! We were even told that this was NOT AMWAY! Not LIKE AMWAY! I am angry and disgusted at this business and I thank you very much for sharing your information! Kim

Scott,

Thanks for taking the time to put together some real data on the Amway Quixtar over the hype I heard last weekend. I was told that Quixtar was larger then Wal-Mart, Sears and Home Depot combined (really???, I just smiled when I heard that). I didn't know at the time that Quixtar was Amway repackaged and over priced for the Net. After the Amway name was proudly referred to during the presentation and the importance of billionaires funding the project it was too late. Out of politeness I had to stay and listen since I had a fresh cup of coffee in my hand and my wife would of killed me if I had gotten up and walked out. Sadly, we had some friends we knew some time ago selling Amway. It was a disaster for everyone I knew involved and they did not make any money, but they sure did buy a lot of brochures on the system.

I realize you don't get paid for this web page, but you have saved me cash and more importantly time (my mistake on the three hours I lost). Thanks again for the information and good luck in the future.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for having such an informative site. One of the supervisors where I work has been trying to get us to come to his house to explain a new great business venture which guarantees us a lot of extra money. After talking with him several times I finally got the name Quixtar out of him and went home and starting doing research, which brought me to you.

When I brought him some of the information I had printed from your web site he was floored!! He asked me where I found it and told him it was easy - didn't he do any research before he signed up? He said no. (Before I invest my money, my time and tell all my friends about a great business opportunity - wouldn't you at least do a little homework?) (duh) .

1/20/2000: And no I don't believe my boss did any type of research whatsoever. He basically kept telling me that this was the internet business of the future and I had an opportunity to get in on the ground floor. That Microsoft and IBM had invested millions in this venture. (I printed him a copy of that "partnership" from your site). He knows I do a lot of shopping online and I am true bargain hunter. When I asked him about the prices of the goods he told me some were higher and some were lower but the more people I signed up the more rebates I would get so I really shouldn't be concerned with the cost of the goods.(?) Some neighbor of his got him hooked and now he has been to the "hotel meetings." He's talking about all the millionaires he has met and how you can make $360,000 a year but that he would be happy just making a tenth of that with very little effort. I believe they have him hook, line and sucker... I mean sinker.(ha ha)

After I showed him the information I had printed from your site (I could tell it bothered him because he started stuttering) he told me I was just getting a one-sided view of the company and I had not heard what he and his neighbor had to say. I told him that I would still listen but that I was coming prepared (I had printed your list of questions) and that I expected answers . (I'm a rather pushy broad). So far he's had 2 meetings at his home with some of my co-workers and I wasn't invited. Wonder why?

Hi,

I'm sorry to bother you, I am totally new to this Quixtar-stuff. Yesterday I had a meeting with someone who is involved in it and wants to get me involved in the business too as an IBO.

To be honest, I don't have a good feeling about all this. I didn't get straight answers from the guy.

But, he was actually saying that he would help me to make 50 K in 6 months. And that is what I have been thinking about, like many others, I can use 50 K.

today I am doing some research to learn more about that business. I understand from your website that you have been an IBO yourself and that you have negative experiences.

Could you explain to me what went wrong? The guy promised me that I wouldn't need to make any investments, so what would there be for me to loose?

You get probably a lot of emails similar like mine, that is why I'm sorry to bother you.

A friend tries to get me into Quixtar. I think about it (honestly I did). I went to the Quixtar site, read the pamphlets, tried to figure it out. I then went to Deja.com and typed in Quixtar, which led me to this newsgroup. I then saw all of the posts from both sides of the fence. I saw the Quixtar reps claiming that people that asked questions about the business as being "close-minded". I see basic questions being dodged or simply not answered.

I thought about Quixtar (albeit briefly), but I really did and I had questions. If someone is planning on "building a business", shouldn't they think about it first and ask questions? Or, should they simply jump right in and find out for themselves by experiencing first-hand? The questions I asked (too many to repost here) were basic questions, and if a person that wants to do business can't answer these questions, or can't do so without consulting someone else in "the business", then that person is definitely someone I DO NOT want to do business with.

In the REAL business world, if you can't answer the simple questions of your clients, they simply find another vendor. If you are vague with your answers, it simply points out in black and white that you don't know a lot about "your business" at all!

I am not here to insult people, but maybe I have, but I also find it quite insulting that when someone tries to sell me something and gives me vague answers to simple questions and calls me "closed minded" it is beyond humorous how they can take themselves serious as "a business owner". Nuff said.

I am a tremendously skeptical person and it is nice to see that I may not be wrong.

From the beginning (learning about this business) I have had my doubts, as had my husband. It is now; after reading these e-mails that we feel like we can honestly discuss our fears. My problem is that whenever I ask a direct question, I NEVER get a direct answer; just the standard " you have to look ahead to what you'll get" answer. My husband feels like he is being taken in by the fact that money is the carrot in front of the mule. In other words, a mule works hard, is hungry and when a carrot is dangled in front of his face he will work twice as hard to try to get it. He most likely won't ever get to it, but he will always work hard trying.

Scott,

I had my meeting and I'm now letting you know how it went.

Question 1: I saw a price list of Amway stuff. Since there are 15 other companies he didn't have any other prices to show me. I did see a catalog of cosmetics and such but it had no prices that Quixtar would be selling. Bottom line: He didn't have anything to show me.

Question 2: Kept avoiding real numbers by saying "It depends on how much you want your business to grow. I asked him what he spends and he wouldn't give me specifics. He was trying to say there was not much really! I asked about tapes, and seminars. He would avoid the subject and tell me about "time, money and no debt" and is it worth my time to make the money and no debt by working hard and learning from others who have nothing else to do but teach him and now me how to HAVE, time, money and no debt.

Question 3: Would not give my a total figure. He told me of checks he's received for such and such amount. I asked him " We'll, how much total have you made?" and he couldn't say or didn't want to. I asked him " What expenses would I incur and what are my expected profits? Again, he was vague and that I would make as much as I wanted if I got other people involved.

What did I learn? When ever I asked "What is the business plan, and how much will I have to spend in order to get a profit I was told I would get back what I bought from my own business. I need to buy from myself in order to produce PV and BV as I understand it. I told him that didn't should like a sensible thing to do. He said that's how it works and I would need to do what others have done and follow the plan and get others to follow the plan. What Am I doing here?, selling a product or buying into a sales plan that has me "selling" the plan to someone else? His response to that was: "It's not about the product, it's about the people". When I heard that, I am and will still be very skeptical.

Thanks very much, Scott. This is excellent information.

But does this mean what I think it does? "Gross margin, as stated in the Amway SA4400 disclosure brochure, is claimed to be $1,056/year/active distributor."

Does this include all rebates and bonuses -- everything except retail markup? Isn't this the whole story right here? Why isn't this the lead fact on every website exposing Amway? And this is shown to prospects whenever they see the plan?

Am I missing something?

Scott,

I was just viewing your website and I just have to say thank you! I am a 22 year old, college graduate with a degree in accounting. So what problem do I have with this Quixtar/Amway nightmare. I live at home with my parents currently, and my stepfather is involved with Quixtar. To me it seems like an absolute joke, a try to get rich quick scheme. My parent's just finished filing a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy this summer, so obviously my father sees the "dream" of being rich! I am the first of my family to graduate from college, and I feel I have a little better sense of business than my parents. However, if my dad could he would have me quit my job to work the business.

He shoves it down my throat day in and day out about how Quixtar is the #1 site on the internet. No where have I found this proof other than from a distributor's website. I am fearful that my parents will never be able to get on their feet because of all the money they spend on this. Not to mention I am afraid to bring any friends over because my father shoves the plan/CD-ROM in their face! I see no money coming in, in fact I just hear my dad say "well if we would have ordered an extra $30 dollars worth of products I would have gotten 1 free." Do people not see the problems with this?

Thanks for your informative site on Amway/Quixtar. I was approached with a chance to enter into the business. I went to a meeting at a friend's house where I was given vague answers, and now I know, misinformation. I was told Microsoft was a partner, no tapes and material purchases were required, Quixtar was a sister company of Amway, and much more false and misleading information. As in your site, the rep. from Quixtar didn't have answers for where money is going to and coming from. Seemed he didn't know much of the company he represented! If only I had your "business questions" to ask then! That could have been FUN!

Funny they have seminars and home meetings before 9-1-99 to recruit distributors for Quixtar, when that is a clear violation one of their "rules". There is just too many inconsistencies with their set up. I feel I am making an informed decision now on choosing not to participate in their, what seems to me to be, scam. I will refer people I know who were also approached to your site. Once again, thanks for your info packed site!

Scott

Amway and Amway people give me the CREEPS. I always trust my instincts and feelings and they say to me BEWARE. My husband on the other hand goes off of logic. His sister and brother-in-law are in AMWAY and are constantly bugging us about it. Your site has proven it to my husband what a SCAM Amway is. (I liked the Fidelity Quote)

Anyway, I sent your site to my in-laws, so you might hear from them.. However, they aren't the brightest people in the world... (I guess that is apparent due to their love for Amway they have been members for about 4 months).

They suckered us into attending a meeting with them. (it was suppose to be a demonstration on why their products are better). We went and these are the thoughts I had.

1. They stated that Bill Gates was involved. (I am somewhat familiar with the computer industry..) I replied to them, if he is involved -- it was probably to sell Amway his software. He is going to sell his products to anyone that purchases them. I know he wouldn't be partnered with Amway, he is too smart and too rich. (They just looked at me dumbfounded).

2. Next, they told me that Quixtar gets over 1,000,000 hits a day. (fist off -- it is probably all Amway people checking the site. Second, I could be wrong but, I would think that when a site is just being built the server would go down if it was getting that much activity.)

3. They showed us a video on the "quality control" of their products, and stated things like "this just keeps amazing me". I thought I am amazed you can watch it that many times. Also, growing up, my father took us to every manufacturing plant in the U.S. (that he knew of) I have seen Glass, makeup, marshmallows, candy, money, beer, you name it. They all have Quality Assurance people, this is nothing new... It doesn't make their product better.

4. The guy doing the demonstration was claiming how much money he makes. First off, if he was making so much money, then why is he wearing a cheap suite and shoes? When I do a training for my company I don't go in there wearing cheap clothes. I wear an expensive suite and especially expensive shoes. Now, if someone is making all kinds of money -- wouldn't they want this luxury?

5. They will never tell you how much money they make. I cornered one of my husbands friends who is in Amway and said.. "Tell me the truth have you really made any substantial money?" (he has been in it for 8 years) He replied "I have made money". I said "more than $5.00" and then said "How much". He wouldn't tell me. He said "it might be lower or higher than I expect so I wouldn't want to discourage you from joining. " I replied "I will never join so just tell me". He wouldn't. If he or anyone else was really making money they would tell.

6. Every time I questioned a price they would say. "ours is better" or "it's concentrated".

7. This one really got me. They said that their laundry detergent is cleaner and they said to test it run your wash without detergent and see the soap. Then run it with our detergent and run it again and there will be no soap in the water. Well, this will happen with any detergent if you have hard water. If you use a detergent with water softeners in it/or have a water softener that works, it won't happen. The Amway product has water softeners in it, it isn't cause it cleans better it is because it is packed with water softeners. If someone doesn't know this they would think wow this stuff is great.

Something my mother has said for years and years. "If you ever want to lose all your friends, family and money, JOIN AMWAY".

If you want my opinion I believe Amway appeals to the people below:

1. Have no ethics

2. Buy into the "something-for-nothing" attitude

3. Need to be motivated or need someone or something to boost their self esteems.

4. It attracts people who are emotional pendulum swingers.

5. People who need others to tell them what to do to be successful rather than finding their way on their own.

6. It also teaches people to "want more" rather than being happy with what they have.. I have no problem with wanting nice things, but to get your entire thoughts on them makes you forget the nice things you already have. I guess the word is GREED. Greed can be a huge mind-manipulating trap.

Thanks Scott for an EXCELLENT site. You give many perspectives on the business - as an English essay you would get 10/10, unlike the 1/10 afforded to the blinkered retorts of Amway distributors when presented with logical debate such as yours.

I never gave much thought to Amway until I started seeing a woman involved in the business. I'm always interested to know more about new people, so I did my research on the company through sites such as yours, as well as the Amway site. I spoke to other people who I knew that were once involved in the business, and even attended a weekly Amway meeting and allowed myself to be prospected! I am an extremely critical thinker, which is why I felt my intelligence had been insulted at the conclusion of my being prospected.

Needless to say, I did have some stars in my eyes about the possibilities in the business, but these were all blown away when I saw that the meetings that I attended were more about dream building and motivation than sound business principles to success. I guess I am lucky in that way that I have been blessed with a little more circumspection in my head than the average person who joins Amway.

I conclude to myself that Amway is this: a strongly boned skeleton that has potential given the right flesh on it - but the reality is that the skeleton is covered by an out of control monster, ruled by a few scores of kingpin distributors as the brain, whilst millions of parasitic leeches (the majority of distributors not making money) cling off the skin, hoping to grow from their bacterial sized existence to Diamond nirvana, a nirvana that is distorted in itself.

I congratulate the founders of the company, the true capitalists that are the winners in all of this. All from an idea 40 years ago... Amway has inspired me all right. Inspired me to think of something that everyone will want pay money for - to own my OWN business on the strength of a product, not on selling hope through mind control.

The woman I am seeing said it all when she casually confessed last week: "I am a dreamer, always have been always will be" I need not say any more!

Best of luck,

Martin

"A sucker is born every minute, but only every hundred years one dies"

Scott,

GREAT website. It helped me realize some things about "Quixtar" that I would have missed until I met with the gentleman that introduced me to the "business". I knew it was an MLM from the initial pitch, but I figured I would give it a look. Internet business WILL be huge, the growth rate WILL be astronomical, but people have to realize the not everyone is going to buy from their contacts (downline). Just because the company did $XXX million dollars in sales means jack if nobody buys from your avenue of the business.

Getting involved in one of these businesses is EXTREMELY risky. I value the lessons I learned from my experience, but consider it to be the single greatest mistake of my life. I was involved in a similar business called Equinox and lost a great deal of money, friends and self-respect. The idea of an MLM is, in my opinion, good; the problem is that with so many people involved it is impossible to avoid the "bad apples" out there. The important thing is to BE YOURSELF when you attempt something like this. DO NOT listen to advisers on how to sell how to act. As long as you remember who and what you are you should do fine. The tapes, seminars, etc., they are all bullshit.

I was perfectly fine and extremely self-confidant until I attended some of these marketing seminars. They try to teach you how to act in every aspect of your life. How to make everyone you meet a contact or a customer. It should come naturally. You can sell or you can't. I have heard sales pitches for at least twenty other MLM companies since Equinox and they ALL SOUND THE SAME!!!

While I do think there is money to be made on the web, and I do believe the IDEA behind an MLM is sound, I caution anyone who attempts this type of business to do these two things:

1. Research the opportunity presented to you to find out the facts behind it. DO NOT GIVE IN TO THE MOMENT! The sales pitch is designed to create excitement and urgency. Remember that. Evaluate who you want to be, and what you want to do. Research how to go into business doing THAT for yourself and follow your dream to the end. Live YOUR dream, not someone else's.

2. Do not attempt this if you do not like sales. I hate sales. Despise it. I know there is huge money in sales, but I am not a salesperson. I enjoy sports and physical labor. I like to feel and see tangible results from my work. The sales world does not afford you that joy. I was told I wouldn't have to SELL anything. WHAT??? How the hell do I make money then? If these businesses were so easy, they wouldn't have such a bad name. Everyone would make money. That is NOT TRUE!!!

I just want people out there to realize that the world of direct sales is not all hearts and flowers. There are many more failures than successes in this business. Please be extremely careful when investing in an MLM. Follow you "gut reaction". If you feel pushed or uncomfortable, then it's because YOU ARE being pushed and made uncomfortable. This business is NOT for everyone, no matter what some AMWAY, EQUINOX, EXCEL, or any other "sales rep" tells you.

Thanks for giving me the time.

Bud

I just got back from a Quixtar marketing seminar. I work in the IS field, so the concept of the Virtual Mall is not new to me, and Quixtar sounded quite good. Then the speaker said, (I'm not making this up) "Bill Gates said Quixtar will be bigger than Microsoft." That's when I got suspicious. Luckily, I didn't sign up. When I got home, I did some searches on the Internet, but found only good things listed about Quixtar. (They have done an excellent job in keeping their contrived websites at the top of the search engines.) I did a little hacking, and found out that the Quixtar website is hosted on Amway's servers. Then in doing a search on Amway, I came across your site. I've printed the best pages and intend to distribute them to those people I knew at the seminar. Thanks for the facts. You saved this group of people money, time and a lot of headache.

They definitely did not mention Amway at all. In fact, when we were discussing the MLM model, I sarcastically said "It kind of sounds like Amway for the Internet." The distributor responded, "Yes, it is a similar model." Then he changed the subject. He might have been waiting until he had me sold.

Mr. Larsen,

For 9 years now I have witnessed my brother in law and his wife and my sister in law and her husband pour everything into Amway. When they first started they believed they would be direct easily in 2 years.

It's been 9 and now one of the couples is direct but still has to work his 9-5 job to pay the bills. They drive an old caddy and have a license plate that basically says "Three and we are free", their big-time motto. I've never seen anybody work so hard for a company for so little in return. I've heard over and over all their claims and never have been able to give rebuttal because I didn't understand enough of what was going on. I've just been silent, yet watched the evidence speak for itself. After 9 years of working two jobs (Amway and the 9-5 job) they still are doing both even as directs. They spend all their weekends and evenings doing plans and attending seminars while they leave their children with extended family or babysitters. When I heard about Quixtar from them I let it slip about my feelings when I said, "Oh no! MLM hits the internet. .I'll shop at the mall." They look at me, stunned with my attitude. So since then I have been researching Amway, their site, your site and the arguments on each. Their text is filled with dreams and possibilities and your site is filled with facts and reality. I love your site. I've told them how I feel, based on the information I've gathered, how I think they are being taken advantage of by Amway in a one time "here is what upsets me and why I don't like Amway email". I'll resume my silence to maintain, regain family peace. Incidentally, the worst statistic I found was on Amway's site itself. http://www.amway.com/infoCenter/questions/question25.asp lists all the stats for money made by direct sellers. I was shocked at how low that amount was. It shows what you and I both know. Only a handful of people are making enough to live the dream that they parade before all these hard working people. Half are not even making 500 bucks a year...by their own statistic.

I'll take my husband's 9-5 over 30 years with wise investing to be a millionaire in the end. Slow and steady gets you to the same finish line...and you won't have missed your children growing up in the process. Personally, my husband has his own business and has been very successful, we are millionaires...nobody in the family knows this and we just nod and smile as we are testified to over and over that they will be the ones supporting mom and dad in their old age. Bite my tongue, smile and wish over and over that they would just do what any wise business person would do and run the numbers.

This whole latest round and my finally breaking my silence started because I and they were sent an email by our mother that said Proctor and Gamble was satanic. I went to PG's website and found the info about this claim and the lawsuits against Amway over it. Do you know if any of these lawsuits have ever been won or settled by PG. My brother in law came back with the fact that the Utah and Texas suits were dismissed, Amway vindicated by "Proctor and Grumble" as he calls it. Thanks for your site. I can respond and hold my own if the need ever arises.

Hi Scott,

I enjoyed your site. I spend about 20% of my coaching time with disabled people wanting to get back in the work force or starting businesses. Regularly, I will get a new client that wants to do a MLM. Usually with a basic cash flow project, I can convince most of them that the amount they would have to sell to support themselves, they would be better off working at McDonalds where they would even get benefits. In five years, I have only met one person who is supporting herself on a MLM and she lives on $18,000 a year but swears that these products have saved her life.

My experiences with Amway (first approached in 1974 - last approached - yesterday with Quixstar), biometics, excel, anc, etc., and my business background has shown that these programs are not what they claim to be and your site will give me some info. to help others. I especially like the 15 questions and will be using those (with credit to you) to help educate.

What I have found so sad, are the couples who have so little and really believe the pie in the sky and lose what little savings they have. Thanks for being out there.

I felt your site was fair - oh, yes, the person who told me about the Quickstar asked to network with me about his day business (factoring agent - some of my clients can use one), and 15 minutes into the meeting he started talking about Quixstar.com and when I said "It sounds like Amway", he said, "yes but in a partnership with MS and IBM."

Have a good summer, and thanks for helping me help my clients.

Mr. Larsen:

Thought you might be interested in the attached info from Amway. I was surprised to receive this message, especially since Microsoft ignored the same query. Needless to say, the false statement I was told, which was revealed by the following message destroyed any possibility of trust.

FYI, I reached your web site through a search for info on Quixtar. Thank you for the hours of research and analysis you obviously put into it, since we were strongly leaning towards opening a distributorship. Even without the falsehood reflected below, your site made it obvious that few people benefit financially from Amway, and that only the owners of Quixtar are likely to reap significant profits even if the site is a successful shopping portal.

 For what it's worth, your research strongly supports your view that Amway might be financially attractive to distributors if it provided a more attractive outlet for retail sales. With Quixtar, however, my experience with internet purchases, discount sites, and the many search engines available to identify the best prices makes me skeptical of Amway's ability to compete with the "BUY.COM's" of this world, at least in the long-term. On the other hand, a short-term opportunity for distributors to benefit from the Quixtar referral system may exist because of the many new Internet shoppers that might intially use a convenient portal over the next few years.

What a great web site!

I have a degree in music- and I can honestly say that business isn't my "forte." In any case, one of my students' parents is into this Amway deal. I've been invited and I went on two occasions, to a "board meeting." (I take it now that "board" merely refers to the dry erase board he uses).

I have to admit that the plan sounded great...but something nagged at me. I dragged my poor husband to the second meeting, and he couldn't figure it out either. So like an idiot- I signed. It wasn't till we all sat down to go over the "details" that we figured it out. Actually I have to give my husband more credit: he figured it out. The couple left our home, and they had no sooner opened their car doors when my husband said "what's with all the damn tapes?!", not to mention the message system, the seminars, books, self improvement junk

You name it, and they were telling us we NEEDED it to become successful in the business. You're not going to believe this but they actually told us to buy the 7 Languages of Love .

It's been less than a month and I can already tell I'm not interested. Or as my upline would say I don't have a "big enough dream."

Thank you for the information- I'm also going to try for a refund.

I haven't experienced such peer pressure since high school!

 Very good...very in-depth. I can't believe how in-depth you went.

The first time I heard about Amway was when I was living in Italy. My cousin came to me and asked if I knew anything about it.....because I spent half of my life in Michigan (where Amway originated). At the time, I told him I have no idea. I later checked it out when I came back to the USA. I went to some meetings..it seemed very interesting. But when I did the numbers, I knew right away you could never save money. You did a great job showing those circles.

I believe these network marketing things work because people feel apart of something...apart of a family. This is why prices never matter to them. I learned that your average Amway person is against all systems but their own...they keep persisting until they reach their goals. Persist at anything (right or wrong) you will eventually get it. This is how these people go diamond....sacrifice everything and anyone could go diamond...BUT if you give up, all your work went for nothing. I believe a lot of people know what we know, but feel that they have gone too far to give up.

Scott,

Have just spent 3 hours reading your site. I am in the middle of it now but must mail this, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts to make truthful, verifiable, objective facts available to those who need them! You have provided me with the "TOOL" to save my dearest friend from possibly making a very big, albeit, costly mistake in his life. Your efforts are most commendable, PLEASE DON'T EVER STOP, or I will find you and make your life as miserable as is legally possible! In other words a very humble and heartfelt thanks for having the character and integrity to inform and enlighten people to the necessity to use there brains and not to be so open minded to the point that their brains fall out of their craniums.

Scott,

Glad you have this site. I was in Amway several years ago and really enjoyed the products but didn't like bugging my friends and neighbors about this "Great Deal". Anyway, when Quixtar was introduced to me, Amway was hesitantly mentioned but Microsoft was mentioned time and time again which gave me the impression that Microsoft was a key player in the program. What a bunch of bull!! I had pretty much decided to "SKIP" this great opportunity but your site finished me off.

Scott,

An excerpt from the 9-2-99 edition of the Washington Post:

"In the end, I can't shake this feeling of doom for the real-world Amway business. I have this fuzzy vision of that Amway dinosaur morphing into a pack of lemmings, those rodents that join mass migrations and drown trying to cross bodies of water. But as irrational as the online system may seem, it may succeed if for no other reason than its members want it to so badly."

Well Bravo for you! Thank you so much for your time and energy in this site. I do believe that SOME can make money in this, but not without sacrifice and a lot of time and energy. The thing that bothered me the most about this whole thing was when I asked if this was Amway, they said "No". Then I asked when the products come to my door, what name will be on these products and they said "Amway". Ok, a company that is ashamed to use their name isn't a company I would like to work for or represent. Not into sacrificing my daughters time for something that is not a sure thing. Her childhood can't be relived and I would hate to miss it! I think if people don't want to hear what you have to say, then "GET OFF YOUR SITE"! You are allowed to give your opinion and tell your story without people giving personal cracks! Plus........use your spell check people, please! Anyway, thank you for giving me some information to help make my decision NOT TO JOIN! I already started passing on your site to people and will continue doing so. Thanks again.

Cool Scott. I've been reading your site for the past half hour or so --great stuff! The content is fascinating. Really great. A psychotherapist I know told me he has gone to Amway meetings just to absorb the mind-control ambience and see what techniques they use. I'm not willing to go that far ...

What's really annoying, and insidious, about Amway is this business of people you hardly even know calling you who want to lay this great money-making opportunity on you -- wow! THANKS!!! Especially since I've started and sold two REAL businesses, and now they think they're doing me a favor . . . . I remember one guy telling me he expected to be making $250,000 a year four years hence. I guess he gave up, because about 6 months later he moved out of town and went to med school. (hmmm, maybe he WILL make $250K after all -- just not the way he expected). Anyway, they must teach them to call everyone they've ever met. It's so annoying -- trading on friendships to do business. When I started my businesses I didn't call up all of my friends and ask them to buy from me. It is almost evil to teach people to use their personal relationships like that.

Also -- LOL at myself, I did figure out what LWL stood for -- Doh!

Another comment on the site, and perhaps this info is on there, but I haven't found it yet -- a lot of Amway nomenclature is used -- PV, BV, etc., and references to the different distributor levels. It would perhaps be helpful to have a summary of the "Amway system" and how it works. Absent that, statements like "I spent $25 and only got .89 PV" don't have much meaning for me. As I said, perhaps there's already such a thing on the site, and I just haven't found it yet. (And please don't take the time to write this up FOR ME . . . please don't waste your time. But if it's on the site, please point me to it.)

I hate to make comments which are at all critical of such a worthy enterprise!  

Hi Scott.

Here's my tuppence-worth:

Yesterday (Wed, Sep 13th, 2000) my wife and I had a visit from a couple who we had met at a restaurant. We had exchanged phone numbers based on the fact the we both had children around the same age (my daughter is nearly two). The guy had phoned to arrange a meeting to discuss "job prospects", as I had indicated my IT background at the restaurant.

Well, as soon as they arrived (in a suit and dress, no less !), I figured that this was not about a job offer. After sitting down at the table, the first thing he asked was "Where do you want to be 5 years from now ?"... I instantly thought "pyramid scheme !". My wife and I let him ramble, made difficult by the fact that my daughter wanted to draw all over their literature, and cried at the most inopportune moments ! At one point my wife asked "so is this like Amway ?" to which the guy replied "No, we're not related to Amway", only to completely reverse this statement five minutes later when discussing the online Mall feature of Quixtar which, surprise, surprise had Amway as the cornerstone. That, and the fact that ALL the literature mentioned Amway.

He also flatly denied our comment of "so, this is like a pyramid scheme"... much to our amusement.

Needless to say, he insisted that we "borrow" the case full of literature (video, tape, CD, various glossy flyers), and tried to get us to go to the next mass meeting on Monday. We declined the meeting and asked that we look over the information and he would arrange to come over on Saturday to pick it up.

No sooner had he left, I jumped onto the 'Net, brought up Altavista, did a search on Quixtar to see what, if any, sites had mentioned them.

Let me just say, it's good to see that your site is the third in the list, one of the other sites being Quixtar.com itself.

I have printed out your main page (all 42 pages of it) and will hand that to our "loved" "friend" when he comes on Saturday... I'll let you know of any response !

Thanks again for a most rewarding and enlightening site. I guess SOMEONE must have written something about it, but to see the work you have put into your site deserves great thanks.

Regards,

First of all I must say, without your website, I too, would have become one of the many victims to fall pray to the AmQuix scheme. Upon being approached at Barnes and Noble of all places by a man claiming to be starting in a "new" business that he would like to talk to me about, I must say that I was curious and invited him to come to my home to tell me more about it. At this meeting he used many of the tactics described on your website, making the opportunity sound appealing without revealing too much information. He said in order to get the rest of the details, I would have to come to a "meeting" that very next night to learn more. Hence, my wife and I took time out of our busy schedules to go investigate. The meeting was just as you've described, and it ended with our "upline" handing us some tapes and brochures to read about the company. We read the literature and upon doing so, ran across the names of DeVoss and VanAndel. Now being from Michigan, near the Grand Rapids area, those names were all too familiar to us. We scoured the literature for any Amway connection besides the names but found none. We then hopped on the web and aha! There you were. I called my upline and asked him about the Amway connection. He told me that it was not Amway and with that, I'd made up my mind about Quixtar.
How misleading can you be? I honestly don't think he knows about the connection! Be assured that I will be directing him to your site asap. I just hope it's not too late!
Thanks Again!

 Thank you for your quick response!
Funny thing is, I called the guy to come pick up his materials and he just left. He knew we were not interested in joining his cult and came armed with even more literature and "statistics" to try to convert us. Well, we were ready thanks to you! We had answers to all of his attempts. I mentioned the 30% thing, asking for price studies for our area and he pretty much changed the subject telling me that when you link to "Office Max" and other such stores you get just as good a deal as you would if you had gone to the store yourself. Ok, but what about the Amway products compared to WalMart for example? He changed the subject on that one. I asked him if he'd seen your website, telling him that it was very unbiased, siting all kinds of statistics both positive and negative. He got VERY defensive saying that "why should he listen to anyone who's never even sold Amway products and experienced the profits of doing so." You were right about that one too! I asked him why Amway was not even mentioned once in any of the literature he gave us or at the meeting. He said that people don't understand how Amway works and that they don't want people coming to Quixtar with pre-drawn conclusions. That they want you to see the business plan (the dream) without the Amway "thing" hanging in the back of your mind. I flat out told him that it was misleading and deceptive and that for me to have to find it out for myself was all it took to make up my mind about participating.
So, there you have it. I just wish that I knew the names and email adresses
of those other poor souls at the meeting so I could send them your way.Oh, and by the way, how is it that most of the people at this meeting that are already involved in the program were doctors, lawyers, engineers and bankers? I myself am a doctor and it blows my mind that these other professional people would not have enough common sense to see this thing for what it is! Any clue on that one?
Thanks once again!
Thanks for the top 18 list...very cute! I've been getting a kick out of the progression of events between my husband and this Quixtar guy this past week, and you've made it even more entertaining for me. I was skeptical from the start. I even told Scott that I'll bet you it's Amway before we even went to the meeting! Maybe I should try getting a job with one of the psychic friends networks! If it sounds to good to be true it usually is. I had the pleasure of being on hand when Satchi (the guy from Quixtar) came over tonight. The stats that he spewed were the same ones that we'd heard at the meeting about how they did 200 million in 200 days, how they are connected to x number of fortune 500 companies, how China shut down all of the direct marketing companies and then let Amway stay...blah, blah, blah.... I'm sure he's at home right now on the phone with his mentor laughing at how stupid we are for not hopping on the money train.
He says he does very well with the company, that he's in the 18% category now, but he wouldn't say exactly how well. Hmmmmmmm.......
Milwaukee must have a whole bunch of gullible engineers because that's what the majority of the IBOs at the meeting were. In fact the two men who led the meeting, the host and the speaker, were both engineers and the guy who tried to suck us in is a senior systems engineer with a PHD who works in the medical systems department for GE

.
You are right about engineers being logical people though. I am a Graduate Gemologist and in my vast experience selling diamonds, the engineers are always the most fun to deal with. You are definately a black and white, number crunching bunch and I love the challenge of finding the right diamond with the right angles for such particular clients!

It's been nice corresponding with you this evening - keep up the good work!

 Add me to your list of the thousands of people you have saved!

I just met today with an "acquaintance" of mine. She wanted to tell me about this exciting business opportunity that would set them for life and it could do the same for me and my family.

As I'm reading through your site, I'm getting sick to my stomach. She followed just about every ploy you wrote about or quoted someone as saying. I'm a little creeped out by it, because I think this woman befriended me, not as a person with similar interests (children the same age, we both worked for the same organization at different times, both live on farms), but as her next "target." I feel like a mouse and she is the cat playing with me.

She never uttered the word "Amway" in our discussion except to say that Quixtar is a distributor of Amway cleaning products. When she said that, I felt a chill down my spine.

I remembered waiting for a train one day, years ago, watching the rail cars pass in front on me. On one of the grain cars, someone had spray-painted "Amway is a cult." Now I understand more after reading your site.

My family and I are definitely in a financial nightmare right now. We farm, and the farming economy is basically in the toilet. I cannot afford to go to these meetings, driving to them, hiring sitters, paying for meals, etc. This would really collapse our family finances.

I'm sorry to go on and on. I'm just really thankful I did a search on Google and you came up #1. At least I was smart enough to do a search before I wrote out a check!! You are doing a great service!

Now I need to bow out gracefully when I meet with her again on Sunday.....:)

Thank you!

Great great site! I love anyone who takes on these evil companies that prey on the vulnerable. Just heard another "pitch" only this week and was able to have lots of fun and play with their minds citing facts learned on sites like yours!

MLM's should be outlawed. Keep up the good work!

Hi Scott

I've probably got nothing new for you but just want to tell it anyway. I work as an RN with an agency so I get around a bit. I was working at one place and a guy steam cleaning carpets wanted to chat. I'm a bit of a techie, am skeptical of authority and he spoke in such a way after sussing me out that I was saying yes to just about everything he said. Then he said we should have coffee and we did a few weeks later. That's when he said did I want to go into business with him. He talked about lifelong financial security and asked a bunch of loaded questions such as "Do you care about your children?", "Do you have an open mind?" Yeah right, like I'm gonna say "I hate my family and I'm a closed minded bigot."

I asked him if it was Amway and he said "No".

I'd never done any research but I knew it was Amway. I just knew a little about it and from what I thought I knew I figured I pretty much knew how the system works. Having researched your site this morning I see that I was dead right.

Anyway this was about a year ago, and a couple of weeks after our coffee (it's always fucking coffee isn't it) he said did I want to visit his home and then maybe go to a meeting the same night. I was in the mood. A sap I know had been telling me he was going to pay $5000 for a floppy disc, a program that predicted the price of shares. I think the program performed some crude kind of fourier analysis to the bitmapped image that schematically represented share prices and was supposedly able to draw the "curve" into the future. Or was it a horse betting program where some guy had just run an excel worksheet on past results and tweaked the formulas and conditions?

Anyway (again), I get there, this cheesey neighborhood, house worth about the same as mine but poor taste. He offers me a whiskey. I ask for straight, no ice and give him a polite look that says I'm having a triple.

He shows me all this Amway stuff. Lots of cute cartoon drawings. He talks a lot. He doesn't look at me much and I think that he is imagining himself delivering to a larger meeting. I hadn't eaten all afternoon and the whiskey is working. I ignored everything he said. I told him about share buying and horse racing software. I told him that as a nurse I could (unethically) compile a list of hundreds of names in a fairly short space of time. He stopped dreaming for a minute and looked interested. I could compile a list of middle aged/elderly vulnerable people with money. I could post them share options, reducing my list with each mail out to only mail to my successes. When I have, say fifty prospects remaining who would have doubled their money in three months with my advice I send someone to visit them.

I then picked up his pamphlets. Yeah, like I'm going to buy tires, an air conditioner, a Seiko watch from a catalogue. I told him that the products are a front and that the only business is in ripping off you downline. And that the dumbest thing is that you are not even ripping them off for your self but for a distant upline. I hadn't heard the expression "Fake it till you make it" but that pretty much sums it up.

I was making them late. His wife was nearly frantic. But not directly because they would be late for their meeting. There was going to be a fight about me later. She was going to tear strips off him for being so stupid as to think that I was a prospect. He was going to feel stupid and get defensive then offensive. She was smarter than he was and hated Amway's guts but was trapped by this oaf.

I was polite, fluent (Chivas Regal) but very direct. His wife said that Amway wasn't for everybody. I resisted the urge to tell them that not only could it not work for every body but that it also relies on people dropping out.

And I think that's true isn't it? The system has evolved like an organism. The founders would not have been able to predict that it would evolve a particular way or that it would be a success (for them) but they probably had a gut feeling, knowing people, that it had a good chance of working out (for them) one way or the other.

I think I agree with you when I say that I find the subject of beliefs, rip-offs, religion and cults fascinating. Unfortunately it's also a little perverse and more than a little depressing since it forces me to confront humanity's frailty and biggest fear. And that's the saddest thing there is.

Regards,
Rod

Scott Larsen,
I am a young college student who was recently introduced to an "IBO" of Quixtar/Amway. She offered me the opportunity to be "sponsored." (I am using quotes around these things because I am appalled by the glorified terms this operation uses.) My first instincts were to run! Since my meeting with her last night I have done a little searching on the net and spoken with respectable business people...if only to have confirmed what I already knew.
The part I thought you would find interesting, however appalling it may be, is how I was approached by this "IBO" about this "business." She hunted down my fiancée at work (which she also works one day a week) and asked him to meet her at a coffee house. After this initial meeting he invited me to come to another meeting to see what I thought (he is intelligent, but more fantastical and less business-wise than I am)...somewhat reluctantly I agreed. This woman used the typical sales approach. She had probably learned these techniques from sales seminars that Quixtar/Amway provided, since by trade she is a physical therapist. Her sales style, to say the least, was aggressive. Let me lay it out for you:
Body Language:
-Extensive (uncomfortable) eye contact
-Extremely firm handshake
-Leaned (way) forward across the table while speaking
-Diverting the most attention to the one (not me, after asking too many unanswered questions) who is less critical

The Pitch
-She gave a very general explanation of how it works, with very little details (In fact she was extremely irritated when I asked for percents, figures, and more details. She said, "I don't have time to explain all that to you and in fact we (as a company) do not explain how we are able to do this (operate etc...) until you are signed on.")
-She suggested that we not ask what our friends and family members think of us becoming involved in this because they will probably discourage it
-Her main goal/motivation was money and retirement, not the quality of product she was selling (she does not believe in what she is selling)
-She became so intent on our next meeting that we had to tell her (for 10 minutes) that we would have to contact her (she said it had to be before the weekend)
-Lastly, she claimed to be friends with Ted (who is supposed to be the owner) and wanted very much for us to meet him...among other success stories. (I think this is part of her pitch...the group of classy, wealthy people we got to become associated with. "THE CULT")
This is only the beginning. I spent 2 hours with this woman and I left hating her (even on a personal level). I am curious to know if this is her style or their style. I would like your input on this...surprised, not, or neutral?
Thank you and I hope this ,if nothing else, gives you a giggle. :)
Sincerely,
Leslie

 This is a great website. It has saved me from a lot of unwanted stress. I actually agreed to become an IBO but put of paying the "registration fee" for a week so I could do some research on my own. After looking at your site as well others like I took the info back to my sponsor who in turn contacted his upline who called me 3-way. I questioned on virtually everything you disclosed and he offered no factual support of anything he had claimed. After about an hour of this he gave up and said make sure you return the tapes I gave you. I just hope my sponsor who is my friend sees the light before he gets any more brainwashed.

Was on the verge of joining Quixtar, but decided to do a little investigating and came across your site. Well, needless to say I won't be joining. Thanks for your site and the HEADS UP. Jim

Scott,

While surfing the web looking for the truth, I stumbled upon your Amway/Quixtar site. I loved the graphs showing the truth about this cult called Amway. They're everywhere, and this damn scheme is building up to many good, honest people into dreamers. I know people at my job trying to recruit me and while they showed me the plan, I played them like I was going to join. Soon I realized--"Why haven't they showed me any rules/regulations?" Something too good to be true, I thought. Well, I finally was sick of them hounding me, and ignored them. They still think I will join, but after finding a good informing web site--I know can find the knowledge to tell them off (in a nice way of course).

Thank you, Mr. Larsen

Hi Scott,
I have been reading your site,( I came upon it by chance) which is somewhat of a coincidence, as I have been approached to join Amway. It was amazingly informative and I have no doubts as to my not joining. I have been "sucked in " too other MLM schemes before, and they are all the same. There isn't any way the "little guy" will ever get off first base; making lots of money, using this type of selling. The system doesn't allow it. I don't even believe Bill Gates created his empire from the back of his garage.
Great site. Lots of luck. Saffron

Dear Scott,

Me and my husband became IBOs last week with Quixtar. My husband was smart enough to do some research on his own before we took the big plunge of having our sponsors to our house to show the plan to our friends and family. We never really felt 100% sure of what we've gotten ourselves into and we thank you very much for your site because I just e-mailed my sponsors and told them to cancel the meeting and everything else. I never felt better about following my first instinct than I do right now. We felt like we joined a cult and we were too embarrassed to even tell anybody what we did. Guilt? Does that sound right? I don't think so.
Thanks again for your information. I hope the message gets out to others.
Sincerely, Tom & Sue

Dear Scott,

I'm sure you get this kind of email all the time, but I just want to tell you THANK YOU. My brother has been trying to talk me into Quixtar, and since he's my brother, I love him, I trust him, I look up to him, right? So he tells me this exciting news about Quixtar and how he's going to ride this wave and how he wants me to get on. We've had two hour long conversations this past week (my wife and I just had a baby last week, and, now that I think about it, he talked more about Quixtar than his niece!), and he convinced me that I need to at least listen to a board plan or whatever. Well, my wife and I have had bad experiences with MLMs, like Equinox, Excel, and Amway (which is not Quixtar, right?), and my wife even tried Mary Kay for a while, but she just doesn't like selling to family and friends. My brother told me it wasn't Amway, and even talked about Amway going to jail, stuff like that.

Well, I decided to go look at Quixtar. com. The first thing that caught my eye was the L.O.C. logo. I thought, "wait, isn't that Amway?" So then, since it is the #5 website, I go to www.forbes.com and do a search on their site for Quixtar, any articles, you know, something to prove what he was telling me. Nothing. So I do a regular search on Metacrawler. Lotsa stuff, but the first site I clicked on was yours. I still have to read more (you've got lotsa stuff!), but from what I've been reading for the last hour or so on your site, I now know that my wife and I will not be joining. I feel like, since it was my brother, I will at least listen to a presentation, but sorry, no names from us, just the questions you have listed and a stubborn attitude that we won't budge!

Thank you so much, I'm glad someone out there had the guts and the time and the talent to do the research and make it available for lazy bums like myself.

ALOHA,
Thomas

AND AGAIN, THANK YOU!

I don't know what part of the country you are in, but if you ever find yourself in Cleveland,OH I'll buy you a beer (or 20!).

I'm usually a very logical person who thoroughly checks things out before making a move (which brought me to your site). I can't believe I almost got sucked in. Most of the situations described in your site read is if you've been watching me for the past few weeks.

I am an accomplished salesman at a local hearth and patio shop. Several weeks ago a couple came in to look at hot tubs. They were assisted by a rookie salesperson who eventually called upon myself to answer the more technical questions. After 15 minutes the husband took me aside and thanked me for my knowledge and professionalism and informed me that I impressed him. I must admit, that made my day--often times people enter our store and treat us as though we are trying to sell them a used car.

A week later I got a call at work from the husband. He stated "I'm putting together a team of a few select people for an internet marketing opportunity..." (does that sound like the tape or what?). Even though I was leery of this I agreed to meet him and his wife at the local McDonalds for coffee. I figured I would be kicking myself for the rest of my life if I "missed the big one". I sat through the presentation on a laptop. At the end of the presentation I think they expected me to jump on the opportunity ( I didn't); instead I asked questions--lots of them! Ten minutes later I left McDonalds with several cd's to listen to and a brochure. After listening to Kiyosaki's cd I got fired-up. The next morning I was at the local library getting two of his books. On Wednesday I met the husband again and got more information(tapes and name lists to fill out--he even gave me several tip sheets that would help to extract from my cranium the name of every person I had ever seen, heard, met,etc.).

I asked more questions that night and discovered several that made me curious:
1. On two separate occasions I asked point blank "how much income are you presently earning per month on the system? I got an offended look and a sketchy answer--I thought I had a right to know.
2. At the first meeting I was told the plan cost $129 for the deluxe IBO plan with sample products and $60 for the basic package with less product samples. At the second meeting I was told it was $99 for the deluxe and $49 for the cheapie, but that it didn't come with and product. HOW MUCH DOES IT REALLY COST? MAYBE I CAN GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER AFTER WRITING A CHECK. OR MAYBE IF I MEET THEM ENOUGH TIMES IT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME FREE!
3.If all you're supposed to do is lure more people in, who is it that buys enough product to make a profit for me? The only people I see making a profit are at the Headquarters.

I was invited to dinner tonight by two of my very best customers to show their appreciation for going above and beyond the call of duty in taking care of them. I was inches away from pitching the plan to them, but it just didn't feel right. Now that I look back on it, if I had presented the plan to them I would be guaranteed to never see them in our store again as they would more than likely avoid me like a Hari Krishna at the airport. By the way I was told it was okay to show the plan and sign people up even though I had not technically applied for an IBO number yet, as we were short of cash this last week.

Well, I've jabbered enough.

Thank You Again!
Joe

Dear Scott;

today 10/10/00, I was approached by my dog groomer regarding "Quixtar" after telling her I would like to work at home. She said I could make up to a 6 digit figure, she would then give me several video tapes to watch. I decided to check on the web reqarding "Quixtar" she never mention the name "Amway" once in our conversation. I thank you so much for having your website expose the deception and now I know the truth. Keep this site going it will help a lot of people. It sure helped me.

Thanks
Helene

Dear Scott,

My husband and I became IBOs last week with Quixtar. My husband was smart enough to do some research on his own before we took the big plunge of having our sponsors to our house to show the plan to our
friends and family. We never really felt 100% sure of what we've gotten ourselves into and we thank you very much for your site because I just e-mailed my sponsors and told them to cancel the meeting and everything else. I never felt better about following my first instinct than I do right now. We felt like we joined a cult and we were too embarrassed to even tell anybody what we did. Guilt? Does that sound right? I don't think so.
Thanks again for your information. I hope the message gets out to others.
Sincerely, Tom & Sue

Almost twenty years ago (approx 1981) a "hardcore" Amway rep did recruit my wife and I (we bought a starter kit @ $79.00) in to the Amway program. It did not take long for me to understand that the money was in recruitment, not in the products. This didn't sit well with my wife and I and we opted out of the program. Before parting the Amway rep and I had a long phone conversation. The reason I say this is because talking to him was the same as talking to a programmed robot. The two points I drove home to him still remain were:
1. Taken to its logical conclusion, following the recruitment expectations of Amway, there would be NO customers in a town of 100 since each person would have recruited the next (assuming they bought the Amway spiel) until no one would be left.
2. The most successful distributors were always located in states such as California, Arizona, Florida, Colorado (South and West). Few and far between (next to none) came from where we live (and still live): northern New Jersey. This he did comment on: the market in the Northeast was difficult to break. (I have recently learned this status has not changed).
I want to commend you on your site. I just don't understand why this entire structure doesn't implode.

Tom

Scott:

I found these statistics posted in the Insider's Perspective feedback section. Can anyone verify them? *If* these are really official Quixtar approved stats (actually they probably should be Amway approved stats -- in 3 months you could not have any Q12 qualifiers) then I have to say "Hats off to the corp!" Thanks for releasing REAL information .. I really do mean that!

The numbers in parenthesis below are the percentage times the 750,000 IBO estimated numbers for North America.

From the July/August edition of The Business Owner (Formerly Dream Builders magazine by Internet Services), a tear-out page with the official, Quixtar-approved stats: "The following are approximate percentages of IBOs of record in North America who achieved at least these levels of success in the year ending Dec. 31, 1999.

Q12 Qualifiers - .13417% (1006)
Emeralds - .0348% (261)
Founders Emeralds - .01691% (126)
Diamonds - .00771% (57)
Founders Diamonds - .00107% (8)
EDC & Up - .00449% (33)

Founders Executive & Up - .00096% (6)

I wrote you an email not too long ago about my friends and Quixtar. I have been reading more from your website and I think what you are doing is great. I really had no other way of getting the other side of the story except from your site. I knew there was something wrong with it when I heard about it. If this business is so great then it would be in a top financial magazine. It just doesn't make sense. I was very impressed to hear that you are an Eagle Scout. I too am an Eagle. I don't know if you have heard of Barry Harwell, but he is supposedly a top dog in this business and he came to my house the other night to lead one of their meetings. Don't forget I live with 2 guys that are involved with this. I would like to talk with you more about this or just anything.

Thanks again for your work on this site.

Scott,

Congratulations on an excellent site. I had the misfortune to field a call from a quixtar drone today, fortunately smelt a rat, told him where to get off ... and then found your site for more info.

Thanks!

A fellow level headed and rational being

MD

Thank you so much for your informative site. I have two cousins who are constantly trying to recruit my husband and me into Quixtar. The first time, they took us out for nice dinner, but their claims of financial success became suspect when they started dividing up the check. We had to listen to the pitch and pay for our own suppers :(

Thanks again for the ammunition.

Janet

 Many years ago, in the 70's, a family member approached us about Amway. Fortunately, I had a job transfer out of town and, with the change, was working about 80 hours a week and couldn't "take advantage of this great opportunity." Recently, a co-worker asked me to come by his house to talk about a great opportunity to make money on the internet. Reluctantly, I went. (I had only worked there a few months and did not feel like alienating anyone.) I had not made the connection to the prior Amway experience. The meeting was truly a flash from the past. Yes, the Quixtar recruiting meeting was just like Amway of 25 years ago.
The flashy former high paid engineer from out of town that drove over 200 miles to explain to us how in just a few years we too could quit our job and retire. The same vagueness of how this was to happen. The "trust me." Even the same line: "Now, doesn't this make sense to you?"
The same similarities to a Southern Baptist preacher. The same people in the back of the room clapping and shouting "yes" and "amen" to the wisdom spouted by the out of town expert. It was frightening. I felt trapped. However, at then end I had an out. He told us that there were three types of people in the room: Those that wanted to be wealthy and would buy the "tools" tonight and get started right away before this great opportunity passed by. Those that didn't move as fast and needed to think about it and get back and they would take your name and number. And those that were simply foolish and were not interested at all. At the end when the out of towner came up to me and asked, "what do you think?" I simply said that I was sorry to say that I was in the third group and politely excused myself. I am sure all of the true believers branded me as a loser as I walked out the door. Believe it or not, they had a person stationed on the front porch to take one last shot at me and the others had parked in a way (I can't say that it was intentional) that blocked in my car! It was a strange experience. I came home and did some internet research on Quixtar that led me to your page and to the MLM Survivors Homepage. Keep up the good work.
Hopefully more people who are exposed to this "great opportunity to make money on the Internet" will go home and simply plug Quixtar into any search engine.

Hi Scott,

I really just wanted to THANK YOU for the work you put into this topic. I have a good friend that has been in Amway/Quixtar for about two years now. We are still good friends because we don't talk about Amway/Quixtar any more. I went to a startup meeting and decided its not for me, anyway we don't talk about it any more. It reminds me of lotto, a lot of people buy tickets even though the odds of winning are very low. It also amazes me when you try to talk to someone that has made it in Amway/Quixtar, how defensive they get and can't answer a direct question with a direct answer. Again THANK's Scott .....

Hey Scott,

Thanks for the great site! I'll try and keep my story short..but I am known to ramble on...

I was approached by a worker in my daughter's daycare and innocently bought some of their detergent. (After I did my research I found it was WAY overpriced and I won't purchase it again). I went to a few "information" meetings out of obligation-daycare workers are not paid well. I immediately noticed some inconsistencies in the presentations because it was all about the "American Dream of Financial Success". My daughter's daycare worker did not do the presentations, she brought in her immediate "up-line" (I think that is the term) who was a waitress and drove a REALLY OLD, BEAT up and heavily damaged car. Interestingly enough, this woman (the waitress) also proclaimed to have a degree in science and nursing. Every time I gave her an answer to a question, she immediately had a comment in which she "bonded" with me. It was pretty irritating, but I could see how a naïve person could fall for it.

However, when the up-line proclaimed she made over $70,000 this year alone (the presentation was in 8/00), I knew this was a joke. I never asked why she drove such a piece of junk or was waitressing...I sure wish I had. Bottom line: I told them I needed to talk with my husband (who is active duty military) and research with my financial planner. That is when Amway/Quixtar really turned up the heat..calling me day after day after day!

After doing my research on your site (and others) and Amway (I found some rules on their website) I thought I could get off the hook by informing them of a rule from their own site stating Military members needed to ask for their Commanding Officer's permission to sell in military quarters, base and/or within the ranks. When I informed the daycare worker/up-line of this rule, they proclaimed they didn't know anything about it, asked where I found it then said it didn't apply. Hence, they STILL continued to call me. By this time, my husband was getting mad because I wouldn't tell them to pack sand. Eventually, I sent them all their stupid tapes back with a note saying I AM NOT INTERESTED! I also removed my daughter from the daycare and placed her in another.

In closing, the presentations I attended I was told about the "partnership" of Quixtar with IBM and MicroSoft (amongst others) and told that Bill Gates supported Quixtar. I feel really bad for the others who did join and are trying to get out of monthly meetings, receptions and those pathetic tapes they are "encouraged" to buy.

If not joining "the opportunity of a lifetime in Quixtar" means I am a loser, then at least I am a happy loser!

Thanks again,

M

 Your web site is great.

I was very impressed: it's clear, sensible, and comprehensive.

I found your site when I was at the "I'm not showing this to my friends 'til I'm sure of it" stage.

Now I'm warning them to check out your site if they're recruited.

I could have wasted a lot of time and money, and jeapordized lots of relationships.

Thanks to you, and the hard work you put in, I didn't.

You have my gratitude.

Long may you run,

-Kevin

Do you believe in miracles? Tonight we had a meeting with a couple marketing the Quixtar IBO plan. Well instead of giving a definitive answer , we ask for the address to the quixtar site and the referral number of the couple and ask them to get back with us tomorrow. My wife is not the most computer literate person in the family, so instead of typing in the address and going directly there. She mistakenly created a web search on the site. Which led her to your site. Needless to say some of the skepticism we both shared seems well founded. My wife calls me and tries to explain how she stumbled on your site and after about thirty minutes I find it. Well I spent the last 30 to 40 minutes printing your pages (she has a natural aversion to the web and prefers to read it from paper) and was thoroughly happy to come across your site. One thing that stood out was I happen to mention that it sounded like a pyramid type thing to me. They didn't seem pleased to hear that comparison at all. Fortunately for us, (unfortunate for them) my wife has a brother that was involved in Amway for years. After spending thousands of dollars and seeing little return they decided to cut their losses and gave it up.

Just wanted to say thank you for all the work you put into your site and I really appreciate the insight you have given us...David

Hi, my name is Jeff Oakes and I am 19 years old and a college freshman. I know you said on your page to ask you about your opinions of other MLMs, but I was just wanting some clarification on something I have been proposed on, and you seem to be very knowledgeable about this subject. I have been proposed to buy a franchise with a company called Britt Worldwide, and I was wondering if you have heard any info on them. And they are affiliated, or a division, or something with Quixtar. They mentioned that their business just started in Sept. 1 1999 and I was wondering if this is the "on-line AmWay" that everyone is mentioning on the site? I was really pumped about signing up until I read your site. I am supposed to go buy my pack ($105) in 2 days, so I was hoping to get your response as soon as possible, though I think I will at least take a little more time than a few days in order to evaluate this opportunity! I don't want to use up the little money that I have and I have been trying to get my friends and family into this, and I don't want to lead them into a trap with me. I appreciate your time and input!!

Dear Scott,

Yes, I got your email, and I appreciate your response! I have decided to not do the Quixtar thing. I go to school fulltime, and work almost fulltime, so doing this would require too much time that I don't have or want to give!!

I'm glad that I came across your site because it most likely saved me a lot of money in the long run, and probably some friendships! I was trying to get people into to it, and they were all skeptical, and I should have been! The guy that was going to be my sponsor met me in the OfficeMax parking lot (where I now work) and really just started talking about my truck, because I have a pretty nice low-rider truck. Then as he was leaving he asked what I did for a job and wanted to know if I would like to make extra money? So he invited me to a meeting at a conference center and had me meet a bunch of people that were now "free" and a lot that were on their way!! It got me excited and he even invited me to his home to talk about it--So I figured that if he would invite me to his home that it must not be scam because if it was I would know where he lives and might seek revenge or something. But they were a really nice family, him, a wife, a daughter, and 2 sons in a nice Christian household. They didn't seem harmful, but I truly think that they are just lost in the dream too and don't see the big picture. He gave me the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" to read and I think that is probably the best thing to come out of this whole situation. That book enlightened me on how I should use my money and the outlook that I should have on it. today or tomorrow, I am going to call him up and tell him that I do not have the time or money that this system requires, and wish him luck! Once again, thank you for your site because it awakened me to reality, because numbers don't lie!! I probably, well I'm almost positive that I would have ended up losing money each month because I am just not willing to do what they really want! Well, sorry about the long response but I just wanted to fill you in on my situation if you were interested. Take care!

--Jeff

Thanks for you site,

I am from the UK and have been contacted by a couple attempting to sell me their "plan". I found the experience quite amusing at the time, but having investigated (on the web), I have been made to feel angry. It appears to be a cleverly disguised Pyramid scam. I must say I wouldn't have got involved, but I have been forwarding extracts from your site, and others, to them.

When I receive replies I will send them on.

Kind regards

Steve.

Good stuff. Sad to see the number of people who have decided that the Amway/Quixtar model of life is the proper one to adopt.

Without reading through your entire site, I have one question for you. Why did you decide to put your time into exposing the Amway myth? Research paper? Personal experience (direct or indirect)?

I did a search for Amway sites as I was approached by my daughter's pre-school teacher. Two years ago, a good friend of mine presented the idea to me. At the time, I had never heard of Amway or Quixtar. My first reaction? "But...isn't this essentially a Ponzi scheme?" As an economist, is was pretty clear from the get-go that this was the model being pitched.

Any case, it is the anti-hard work theme and the "retire young after 2-5 years" pitch that amazes me.

Good luck to you.

Peter

Thank you for opening my eyes to the AMWAY dilemma

I tried to please some AMWAY INVOLVED FAMILY members who insisted that my negative perception is being wrong.

So on my return after a meeting I went onto the NET and discovered your VERY INFORMATIVE SITE about AMWAY I suppose AMWAY QUIXTAR is the same as the new INTERNET ORDERING WEBPAGE the are selling now here to be soon in RSA...so every one can shop online etc cut out the middle man etc...

It is getting big here now in RSA and the bed economy makes all jump on the bandwagon as the 1500 US monthly income promise is a real JUMP START for every one in need of more cash for
kids tuition etc Actually currently I feel they try to capitalize on the local success of SKYBIZ who has over 150.000 members in less than 6 month in RSA.

As you say reading ( try downloading it now ) Webpage will save me a lot of money Thank you!

Victor