Eye opening Distributor E-mail

I was in the Britt Worldwide system under Jay and Erika Beeson. My upline Diamond was Paul Miller. I have already called Quixtar and cancelled my membership as an IBO. Oh well, I have about 30 bags of spaghetti to show for it.

I already know that they are not people that I want to be in business with. They are deceitful, but unfortunately, don't see it that way because they think they are helping people by what they are doing.

One of the questions I asked was concerning an approach that they were trying to get me to use on my former boss. I was explaining to them that this guy was very intelligent and I needed some real numbers so that he could see the benefit. They said just to tell him that I was thinking of getting into this business and wanted his opinion before I "run" with it. Well, in my mind that was a flat out lie because I was already in the business and running with it and I wanted him into the business as well. That led me to another question. Why all the secrecy and curiosity approaches? If the products are so good and they provide value above that which you can buy anywhere else, why can't I just show them the plan with a product demo and/or tell them the whole story over the phone or something? Why do I have to lure them into the business. If it is so profitable, why can't the business sell it self? They said that it was because people are generally lazy and you have to get them in with curiosity and keep them in with motivational material and the wonderful "family" atmosphere that we provide. Then came the biggest discouragement -- I went online to buy my products so I could do my 100PV for that month. The Amway products give you the highest return but I wouldn't need cleaning products and makeup every month and with that alone wouldn't make my PV anyway. I bought in bulk about $250 worth of food. I committed to not buying anything that I wouldn't normally buy in the store keeping in mind that I am just "buying from myself" and not Walmart. Well, after all that I had 68PV for that month mainly because anything you buy on ditto delivery doesn't get credited to your PV for 60 days, which reminds me -- it is the 21st and I still haven't received all of my stuff that was supposedly processed on June 6. I would have had to sell products to make up the rest. They advised me not to spend my time selling products. Spend my time listening to tapes, reading books, and calling everyone on my list. Well, I'm not that stupid. That's when i went searching for answers and I remembered them complaining about the internet being bombarded with anti-amway messages so that's where I started.

I'm a former distributor. Although I must stress that I never got into Amway with any intention of doing anything with it. I just did it to appease my father-in-law, who is obsessed with Amway/Quixtar. I realized from the first meeting that the only way this would work is if (1) you never personally buy the products (because I insisted on seeing a catalog and easily recognized that the prices were generally far higher than were available elsewhere), but get your downline to buy them; and (2) never (and I mean NEVER) get involved with purchasing BSM's yourself, but sell them to others once you get a share of the loot (which you'll never get if you don't buy them I hear). Since both alternatives required me to check my ethics at the door, I decided early on that I was not going to get actively involved. My wife did try to run a retail vitamin business by selling Nutrilite through doctor referrals (we'd sign up a doctor, he or she would make the "Nutrilite absorbs better" pitch to his patients and my wife would make a follow-up call and make the sale, that way there was no "in office" transactions).

We made about $600-$800/month in bonus but since almost everyone knew someone who was willing to sell at distributor pseudo-wholesale to get the PV, we had to sell without a markup too. Consequently, it took a lot of time to make a small amount of money retailing so we stopped after about six months. Other problems included (1) an unreliable drop ship system with extremely poor customer service (the cs reps were used to giving abuse to brainwashed Ambots who, as you might suspect, are apparently willing to take a lot of abuse. The reps were not at all familiar with dealing with people as retail customers); (2) ceaseless headaches getting credit for returned merchandise; and (3) greatly inflated prices even at pseudo-wholesale that made many customers just about swallow their tongues when we quoted prices ("$40/month for daily multivitamins! What the ...!").

Sad to say, my father-in-law is still deeply involved. Since he runs a retail system modeled on our short-lived business, he is a direct who actually qualifies every month. But with the amount of time he spends on recruiting and BSM's, I think his bottom line is still quite low. In fact, when you factor in opportunity costs or the value of his own time I'm sure he's in the red.

Scott:

You have done a great job with your web site. I was an Amway distributor for about three years. I just could not handle the extreme oddities (sick demands?) of the "business" any longer.

My husband and I would just like to thank you for opening our eyes to the Amway/Quixtar lies. We were "recruited" back in August of last year by a couple who promised us the world. "Quixtar is NOT Amway" we were told. I was hesitant, and didn't want to sign up, but they sold my husband the dream. We had a huge fight, and almost split up over it. He believed that he could actually retire from his jobs in two years, and that in fact, he could be making $4,000 a month within four month's time!! This is what they told him. Of course, none of that materialized, and after eight months in "the business" we are almost $5,000 poorer, and our biggest check was $36.00 When a prospect led us to your website, our upline platinum never even responded to our e-mails or Amvoxes. That was it for us. Question their integrity, and they run the other way.

The good news is that we are out. We have been overcharged by Internet services numerous times, been cheated out of Pv and BV for MCI we signed up for. We were just double charged for the Future of Business website, and have been charged retail prices for IBO purchases. Our credit card was charged five straight months for Quixnet ISP, when we had cancelled. Thanks for helping others to avoid these problems.

SCOTT THANK GOD FOR RUNNING INTO YOUR WEB PAGE. WE HAVE ALREADY JOINED THE QUIXTAR BUISNESS, AND AFTER SPENDING ABOUT $350 DOLLARS WE STARTED TO REALIZE THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG. I FOUND IT STRANGE THAT IN THE BEGINNING THEY TOLD US THAT THE TAPES WERE OPTIONAL,BUT YET THEY WERE PUSHING US TO PURCHASE THE TAPES WEEKLY, AND IF YOU DID NOT PURCHASE THEY MADE IT SOUND LIKE IT WAS NOT GOOD THAT YOU DID NOT BUY. I HAVE TO GET WITH MY SPONSOR AND SEE IF THERE IS A REFUND FOR THE MONEY WE SPENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH...

But when I did I discovered almost exactly what you have posted on your web site. In order to make 100PV and see my first check from Quixtar, I had to spend well above the illustration used when the plan is shown (the all you have to spend is $200/month). I found it was more in the neighborhood of twice that. The problem I ran into is that while I could find plenty of competitively priced items on the Quixtar site, especially among the partner stores, the PV/BV given was so low that my downlines and I would have to spend a considerable amount to get to a level where I would see a decent amount of money.

After I finished my business plan I realized that the only way to avoid making my business a money losing proposition was to cancel the professional development program I had recently enrolled in (weekly tapes, monthly books, and other 'must have to succeed' tools). So that's what I did. Also saved my business capital by canceling out of an upcoming conference ($150 fee plus $200 for the hotel, plus travel and food).

The site visitor wanted to build a Quixtar retail business. Here is the latest from him.

Thanks for your site, it has been a real eye opener and has brought us back to reality (you dream stealer you).

A remark our upline diamond made makes a lot of sense in light of what we have learnt from your site - he said quote "its a passing parade", he was referring to the masses in Amway. That passing parade has made him and others like him a fortune from the system, building up there hopes, robbing them blind through the sale of materials, and leaving 99% of them disillusioned and financially worse off at the end of the process. I wonder how he and others like him sleep at night?

After many years, I quit Amway. I only hope that I can now undo the damage that was done to my relationship with my family and friends. I cannot believe that I was so easily assimilated into this group of fanatics under the guise that this was a legitimate business.

I realize now that a legitimate business does not operate in the manner of Amway. My friends and family that were critical of the business were labeled losers and I was advised to stay away from them. Whenever I had a question about the business, I was told to speak to my upline. After all, the logic was, my upline had a vested interest in my success. My upline was concerned about his success and mine was dependent upon his.

I was duped into believing that I could achieve my dreams through Amway. This is the dream of money and greed. Through Amway, I could achieve tremendous success and income and therefore be able to live a lavish lifestyle. All of this under the guise of Christianity. I realize now that the continued support of my family and friends is worth more than any wealth I might realize. Without my family, I have nothing.

My Amway upline became involved in all my affairs. Not only did he tell me how to treat my family and non-Amway friends, but he even told me how to behave with my wife. No legitimate company becomes involved in relationships outside of the company. I strongly resent this interference now.

My upline would constantly tell me to listen to more tapes and attend more rallies. I had to remain motivated and locked into the system. I realize now, after I achieved direct status, that this was because my upline received a far greater income from the sale of these tools than he ever received or will receive from the sale of Amway products. This business is such a scam! Cleverly concealed behind the tools distribution is a whole other business that is lining the pockets of those higher in the Amway pyramid.

I am ashamed of myself. Ashamed of the way I treated my family. Ashamed that I was involved in such a sham of a company. Ashamed that I pushed the tools onto my downline. Ashamed that these tools lined the pockets of my uplines.

Great site Scott. Every few years I check in on the web to see the Amway sites and wow! These sites are getting so much better and more professional, first class all the way. I have to thank you for the time and effort you put in. What you are doing through the Internet is allowing people to get the full story. I was in back in the early 80's and we had no such information. It took me a couple of years to wake up; I tried to ignore the facts and just run on hype and hope. I remember one day finding out the tapes only cost 50 to 60 CENTS each in boxes with labels in the quantities they order. It costs us 60 cents and we sell it to you four and now six dollars but we don't make any money on it its a service. Well I threw thousands and thousands of dollars into it but that was years ago and I've totally recovered. But every once in a while I like to come back and visit so I can relive the agony, the lies the hype, the misrepresentations, and be thankful for all the money I'm now saving, and the free time I now have. Think of it I quit and now I'm free.

Scott,

Thanks for your site. I am a new Quixtar IBO and my first sponsor saw your site and then sent it to me. He quit and I am considering it too. I definitely will not buy anymore tools or go to another function. Thought you might like some more Ama-spin quotes from my upline diamond after I sent him a hyperlink to your site.

Q: Do you make money from tool and why isn't this told to new prospects?

A: It is not mentioned because tool rebates are determined by the organization and each organization is different. New prospects are not told because they will not qualify for a tool rebate until they reach Platinum Direct. We are not trying to hide anything if we are asked, then we will answer honestly. (note he would not discuss what the rebate schedule is for tools only if I make it to direct will I get to see)

Q: Why are most consumable product prices double that of Sam's Club?

A: You should not look at the "business" as a consumer. You are in a business and this is a business to business transaction. I'll bet you will never walk out of Sam's with a free shopping cart full of good (i.e. sponsor 9 people at 100pv/200bv and you get $250)

Hi Scott, Am I glad I found your web site and others. Been doing extensive research on Amway oops sorry Quixtar. I signed up 28th of Feb and resigned March 5th. I sensed the upline people in their lovebombing were just not genuine and it was all manufactured. Correspondence from uplines always ended Love Ya, and when they left our home it was hugs all around. AND THESE PEOPLE WERE STRANGERS !! My wife was the skeptic at first, wondering where the money was going. Finally it hit us...must be the Motivational stuff. Then we started calculating all the miles this upline was putting on his car....he has to be putting on a 1000 miles per week!! Minumum. That right there translates into a huge loss. We got suckered into a business development seminar...translation....A rally similar to a religious revival. Fortunately it was the speakers first time and they weren't very good. They said a couple things that stimulated my gray matter. (and fortunately didn't hold my attention for very long) One where she (the speaker) said something in reference to others claiming this was a cult. Well I listened closely and kept an open mind. Then did a little research. I replayed her words over and over in my mind and concluded that she must have been trying to convince her audience of this. The research indicated how they use dangerous mind control techniques. I actually began to promote this thing but couldn't believe all the negativity I was getting. See we looked into it several times in the past, but always leery about it. We then spent several years in the Alaskan remoteness. This may explain why we just didn't hear many negative comments about Amway while we were out of Oregon. So because everyone was so negative I had to do more research on it. Initially the sponsor left a really good book, that made a lot of sense til I got 3/4 through it. The author was then suggesting to get involved with a MLM marketing company to learn how to sell.

Also telling me how I should be buying tapes and seminars and on and on. Then my wife read his second book. By then her skepticism had taken on a more positive tone. I then concluded these books had our mind screwed up. I immediately through all the books and the tapes (didn't bother to listen to them) Who is Robert Kiyosaki anyway ?? He is the author of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" He has to be affiliated with Amway or the AMO's somehow. My wife said he is wealthy enough he doesn't need to be, but in his book he talks of buying depressed properties for a song...where does he get this money? Has to be associated with Amway. Anyhow I sent my letter to the company to shut down this QUIXTAR thing immediately. My only area of real concern is the sponsor has our SSN #'s hopefully they can't do anything with them. Also I sensed that since we own a very large part of our home we were a target in our neighborhood for sponsoring meetings and such. I also suspect that two people in our upline work for the title company that closed our home. I suspect that they may have looked at this confidential info to target someone like ourselves that have a lot of equity in our home....that way the upline can work us to death til we have to take out a second mortgage and on and on.

Fortunately we were in business in the past with my wife doing a lot of the book keeping. It didn't take us long to see that it just didn't pencil out. And you are right the presentation gives the appearance of exponential growth. We also got in it for with our Alaskan connections we could push products into remote Alaska and it just might be worthwhile......not after we penciled it out. We wanted to set up a web site so we could drop ship with a mouseclick but every time we begin to discuss it the upline steers the conversation to recruiting. I am so glad for the internet exposing this scam. We have decided not to alienate our friends, family and business associates. Thanks again for you site...............................................Mark P

In Amway ten years. Appreciate your sight. Though we are still signed up as distributors we made a conscious decision not to do anything more with the business after reading a number of sights like your own. We did make some money as we did retail products. I would guess that over the last ten years we may have broken even or come out a little on the negative side. You say that Amway distributors do not reveal to recruits that the uplines are making more money on tools than products. Scott I believe that this is because most distributors do not really know. I did not.I began to suspect some things a few years ago and then began to do some calculating and I bean to realize, then I came across a website, quite by accident ( or was it) that confirmed for everything I had suspected.It was a terrible weekend for my wife and I.

We had been lied to. We had been betrayed. This is one of the non-financial wounds that the being in "the business" can bestow on the distributor. Since we stopped buying tapes and going to functions and shopping elsewhere (except for a few products of Amway's we really like) it is amazing how much discretionary income we suddenly have.

As far as cleaning up the barrel through the ADA. Not going to happen. The very people who are the ADA are the apples that are stinking up that barrel. I feel Amway could come clean and clean house very easily, but apparently the will to do so is not there.

Dear Scott,

Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the time and research that you have devoted to creating your site.

My wife and I were involved with Amway for almost three years. We quit the business for several reasons, the least of these being the time and money required to build the business, as so many distributors are quick to list as reasons people quit; for us, it was the deceptions and outrageous lies; but well, that's another story.

Thanks for the info Scott. Now I wonder how anyone can market the Amway products properly. Seriously, are you really and IBO if Amway dictates how you run your business?

Scott,

Thanks for taking the time to produce this page. I had doubts after being "prospected" by someone, and you've reconfirmed doubts. You've saved me a lot of time (and probably money). My first clue was when I got my hands on one of their catalogs, and I was dismayed when I calculated that the prices on the items that I'd be interested were in some cases almost 60% higher than retail. When I asked a wannabe emerald distributor. He told me, "Well, those aren't even the prices. Most products will actually be 20 to 40% less." What was the point of even giving me the catalog!!!!! I'm just glad (and grateful) I found so much information on your page to fill in the gaps to all this. Thanks again.

We were caught up by a sharply dressed businessman who came to us as a friend. Soon we were treated as we were important and we would be rich etc.etc. We felt like we had the world by the tail. So we dove in and sponsored more people than we knew what to do with. We were barely 18 and worked hard. We spent all our savings and even borrowed money to hit pin levels. We had more money being spent on "tools" than anything. We did this for 4years and finally figured it out that we had actually been spending about 20,000 a year in tools , products, and functions. No wonder we were broke. We did however receive some education on motivation, and business, and learned some economics too.

Thanks for your site.

My husband and I joined Quixtar about two and a half months ago and have spent about $1000 on products, tapes, books, videos and seminars. We have received a check for $7.18. Of course, we looked at that and almost laughed. They asked me to come to the meetings and then I realized we had to pay to get in and saw all the stuff to buy to supposedly help my business. I did figure we would incur some additional expense, but when I did the math ... it just didn't look sound financially.

We have since informed our friends that got us in the business about our findings. They are heartbroken. They spent about twice as much as we have and have made about $40. Sad to say we almost spent our beach vacation money on the next big weekend conference. Hey ... we are going to the beach!

ALOHA!

As an ex-Amway Distributor, I can say unequivocally that your site is an excellent resource. It is unfortunate that search engines don't usually display it on the first page (due, no doubt to the manner in which the Amway Corporation has flooded the web with separate sites for each country in which it has opened a market).

I believe that ex-Amway Distributors have a unique perspective on the strengths, weaknesses and dangers of the Amway business model. Your site covers much of the various aspects of the business and does so in an objective, mostly non-threatening manner. I use the term "non-threatening" because I believe that the toughest audience to convey information to are current Distributors who may be experiencing doubts about the business.

Exposure to information on your site may be contradictory to the facts of the belief system upon which distributors depend for their "raison d'etre" and motivation. The psychological dimensions to being in Amway cannot be ignored nor underestimated.

Though I have little time to devote to rallying against Amway, or at least telling the whole story (I have spent the last year de-programming myself, talking to friends about my experiences, etc)

Despite total commitment to "the System" (tapes, books, functions) I only managed to sponsor two new distributors. My highest monthly PV was approximately 175. As you know, this is a very low figure and I received a check for about $7.00. My undeclared loss on the business was $3900 per year (function tickets, tapes, books, airplane tickets, hotel and food costs, automobile gas, wear & tear on my personal car, other business building materials for use with my downline, new business suit).

Hi Scott,

I came across your pros and cons of Quixtar web site the other day and it got me to thinking. I have been in the Quixtar business since Sept when it first kicked off. Like you said I have listen to many higher in rank about how they made money with the business. But as time goes on I am seeing your viewpoint very clear. When I try to show the plan to people the first thing that comes up is that "how are we saving money? When the prices are higher?"

Thanks again for the valuable information.

 Useful site, Scott. I've been in and out of the business over the last four months; finally did a price comparison and decided that I couldn't sell my friends on losing money - then found your site which confirmed my own price analysis. FYI, I'd pay 79.5% more buying my normal stuff via Quixtar than I would buying it at Safeway!!!

Haven't found it on your site yet, but it's clear to me that no-one who's doing Quixtar is ever going to get the 30% discount, as Quixtar is set up for individual orders, not group orders, so who on earth is ever going to buy case lots?

Hey Scott, a while back I sent some e-mails in which I argued with you about the business. I still feel the Amway op. is a great vehicle, but I apologize for the mail. I disagree on a few issues, but you are totally on with the AMOs. I was unaware of the deception involved here, and I was sucked in lke the rest. These people are feeding off a pool of millions who will buy BSMs but will never make it. These guys make money no matter who succeeds. They told me not to reinvent the wheel.

Your site actually made me look into the business a whole lot more.

Thanks. This business can be done without the system, but that also means without the uplines help. I started to ask a lot of questions and they back-doored me and went right into my downline so I would not say anything to "ruin their dreams". Yeah right! I was, however, prepared, and I taped a conversation with my direct. I have tape of him saying he does not enforce the retail sales rule because he does not feel like messing with it. We know the real reason for that. You have saved my butt. Thanks. Who should I give the recording to. The Attorney General? I have several for back-up. Would you like a copy?

The funny part of this recording is that I only called the direct to tell them I wanted to get off the tapes, and he spent an hour and a half trying to convince me otherwise. He also told me not to tell my group of 40+ distributors the real reasons I wanted to leave the business. No surprise, and because of your site I had the recorder ready. This guy was unbelievable, no actually he was pretty good at having an answer to everything I said. What a crock of shit. The tool biz is a pyramid because there is no chance for a beginner to make money like there is on the products side of the biz. This guy tried to work me for that long, and I ONLY WANTED TO STOP THE F_ _ _KING TAPES. The brainwashing is felt by myself now that I can see the light. I truly apologize for slandering you and your site. I now realize you are doing a great service to those who are already in like myself, and to those who are merely looking. I need your help, and I understand if you tell me to shove it. But I now stand for the cause you promote because I was merely a product of the cult when I argued with you. These are some greedy bastard, and they will do anything to get the cash. What can I do to help. I am a very ethical person, and that is why this makes me sick. I fell to my knees with the manipulation of these pros. They are good, and they will continue to work this scam. The Amway scam needs to be cleaned up, and I truly believe in the product side of the biz like any other opportunity. Something needs to be done to help people like me who have gotten washed clean of my own good judgement. The funny thing was that I rejected the system for three years, and I gave in because I needed help, and they would only give it to me if I followed the "system". I now know why thanks to you and many others. I commend you on your mission. Thanks

Hi Scott,

My husband and I are involved with Worldwide Dreambuilders (WWDB). I have been in Amway for over 14 years and my husband has been in it for about 18 years. During that time we have worked with three different motivational systems, Britt, Smiley, and now WWDB. The reason we changed systems was because DD's in our uplines would get into disputes with each other. It is clear to me now that those disputes probably were over the distribution of system money. There isn't that much to fight about in the Amway products business itself. Recently I have noticed a significant increase in our tool purchases. You know, the launch of the new Quixtar business meant that all of the tools had to be revamped as well. We have all new audio cassettes, videos and books. We even have a new information system for prospects. All in all, our tool purchases are up by about 50% over the last few years. Now I don't know whether Rich and Jay are making any money from Quixtar or not, but it is obvious that the real money is already being made by the AMO's in the sale of all this stuff that we "need" for Quixtar. I have had a lot of good experiences with the people in Amway but I am beginning to see the full picture. "Out of control" is a very appropriate description. I was reading the Devos "Directly Speaking" tapes yesterday. It looks like in the 1980's Amway attempted to control some of these abuses but failed. Now the tail is wagging the dog. This seems to be what Don Lorencz is saying.

In all the time I have been in the business I have never known anyone to come right out and inform people that money is made from the system, let alone how much!

Hi Scott,

I was a distributor with Amway a long time ago, and I have to tell you that everything you have stated on your site is fact. I too fell into the Amway trap several years ago, but I managed to finally see through the facade and abandoned the effort. When I finally called my upline and told them that I was no longer planning to work the business, no one ever informed me that I could get a refund. Imagine my surprise when I see on your site that you can, in fact, request a refund.

My story starts about several years ago when I was approached by a distributor who asked me to go to a meeting. Both my husband and myself went, but since my husband was skeptical from the start and did not wish to participate in the "Amway Adventure" (as he put it), I fell hook, line and sinker and attempted to run the business myself. I can still remember running home from my full time job only to go back out and "work the business". My upline lived so far away from me that I drove an hour there and back to "product pick-up". I had to contend with taking the orders on this night also. And this was only on Mondays!! Tuesday is when they would hold the weekly meetings. For some odd reason, my upline decided that we needed additional encouragement and support so after the meetings, everyone was expected to drive to a local restaurant where we would scarf down greasy food and sit through untold accountings of "how I got to the point where I am today and how you can do it too" speeches. They called these "night owls" and they usually lasted until around 1:00 or 1:30, sometime 2:00 in the morning. If you did not go to the night owls, then you were labeled "not a team player." Getting home at 2:00 in the morning makes for a very long day especially when you get up at 5:00 in the morning - but we were given that motivational speech about giving up now to get what you want later in life! What a bunch of bullshit!

During our weekly meetings, my upline would promote to prospects that "Amway was a business not everyone is willing to do, and that they understood this fact so were only looking for a few sharp people who want to own a business for themselves." Afterwards, when the prospect left without being excited about the business or confirming another meeting, they would be called "saps" and "losers". Additionally, they continually tried to mix the Amway business with religion, and would even frown on those who did not attend church with the rest of the "successful" associates. I started to see that if you didn't conform to their self imposed standards, then you were nothing more than business liability and were pretty much ignored or taunted.

The real truth is that Amway is full of hypocrites, but the really funny part is that they are not even aware of it. My upline was directly involved in that law suit and I become livid every time I think of the times that I was bullied into buying the motivational tapes and books. They were making a profit off of my hard work and determination only to throw it back in my face during one of those rallies where they paraded across the stage like show dogs all dressed up in their most expensive clothes and prattling on for hours about how much money they make (never any figures mentioned) and how much better their life is now since they found Amway!

I am thinking of anonymously sending the URL of this site to a number of people I know who are still in Amway. Maybe it will save one or two of them from financial ruin! Thank you so much for this informative site. I just wish the internet and this site were around when I became involved with the whole mess.

Sincerely,

learned the hard way.

Profit in your 1st 5 years? I never had one I was more interested in the delayed gratification plan. I figured that if you were a real team player, you expenditures on an annual basis would easily exceed 2500.00. So what if the kids can't have a Christmas for 20 years you can make it up to them after they put themselves through college.

The bright side, I started studying business small and large, got into tax laws and IRS regulations and listened to people in business and got my hand on any material relating to investment-wise investment.

I'm glad you put up your website, it made me more aware of what goes on in that organization, it took me two years to dig myself out of that hole. They told me my upline is supposed to help, but what I saw and experienced was a lie. Simple as that. People are failing the Amway business sinking their life savings in it! Thank you for your message and telling them to stop! Think before you jump in! Geez, a 7% CD, dumping in the same investment you'd put in an Amway business, will yield $700,000 over 25 years as net side cash! With a 100% success rate!

I had to learn the hard way, and now I'm making money he proper way and having fun....While I may not be in the top "1%" of the Amway distributorships, but hey, at least it's great to see the lights 14 miles off of the western coast of Cuba at 3am while you have glass of Chivas 18! Building wealth the old fashioned way.

Hi -- I wish I had seen your site before I entered the nightmare. Amway is a lie. They use pressure and brainwashing. I "joined" June of this year, and what a load of crap!!!!!!!!!! The products aren't what they are made out to be and the lies they tell you. My upline said God had led them to Amway in order to help people. My final straw was a rally in North Carolina this September. I could not believe what I saw. Propaganda at its best. I was sitting there amazed at how stupid these people were and not understanding why they couldn't see what was really going on. Now I have a better understanding of Hitler's Influence over Germany in the 40's . It was so clear, so unbelievably clear. In my few months I was shown how to lie (cold contact) at a mall, also using a phone book to call people and make up some lie so I could tell them about the great business opportunity by saying so and so gave me their name. Then I was invited to go to the local fair just for the sake of cold contacting. Give me a break, if their "business" were so great they would not need such measures. I didn't go. The CON MAN who invented AMWAY is laughing all the way to the bank. I am going to stop now because I could tell you SO much more. But after browsing your site, you have hit the mark dead center. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, and hopefully others won't be tricked into this lie.

Hi Scott -- To answer your questions:

How much money did I throw away in Amway? It was right around $500.00, not including the MCI switch, or the computer equipment of $1400.00 needed so I could use Quixtar. I never signed up for the regular tapes, books or videos, though I was getting pressure to do so. The monthly seminars, the advance cost of $12.00 or $15.00 at the door, is printed on your ticket as a donation, that's a laugh. They call these seminars continuing education, in what? How To Con People. Then of course, there were your $6.00 special speaker get togethers and let us not forget the big $105.00 week end ones.

How much did I receive? I received one check for $9.00.

Quixtar? What lies I was told concerning that. I was told if a company was a partner store, that no one could shop anywhere else on the web at that store except by going through Quixtar. Office Max is a partner store, and you can go directly to their site and shop without using Quixtar. Quixtar was invented because to many people were wise to the name Amway.

In response to upline, I really don't know way up because when their names were told to me I didn't really care. Their very names were mentioned with such reverence, this was a red flag to me. And as far as crossline or downline I was told I shouldn't have contact with them only upline, this caused another red flag. I am planning to send your site to what upline I know. It won't do any good, because they all are total AMWAY ZOMBIES. What really had the red flags flying were when they told me how I should live my life, what I should read, what I should listen to, what I should spend my money on, that I should always consult with my upline before spending money on anything not AMWAY, how I should dress, on and on. No...no..no....no, no one tells me what I should think or do. Suggest maybe but not tell me.

The sad part is, this has destroyed a 28 year friendship. I feel deceived and used by someone who calls themselves my friend. I'm sorry, I don't call that friendship.

I just thank God, that he blessed me with a mind of my own. I have never been a member of the status quo.

God help all the new distributors.

Hi Scott!

I'd like to say that you have created an absolutely great Website sir! Keep it up. I support it all the way!

I occasionally trawl the net for any stuff on Amway. Why? Because I used to be an UK Amway distributor and I am casually interested in developments. I got as far as 18% after 1 year in the business and was considered to be one of the most promising distributors in our group. I liked the realization of unrestricted wealth - the harder you work, the more money you made and with the advantages of multiplying your effort. However, I was very close to our upline Emerald and began to realize the deception involved i.e. that they were not earning as much as they were saying, the "secret business within a business" - i.e. tools and functions. I already began to realize the high operating costs of "running an Amway distributorship" and the high dropout rate of distributors. There was a lot of pressure from upline with regards to functions and tools. Basically, if you weren't in the program you were frowned upon to some degree or another.

Most of the examples you describe are so true to the way the business is run that I shall not dwell on my personal experience of this. They are all so very, very true.

I was (and still am) very ambitious, more so than most of the people present in our group, but found it frustratingly hard to make any reasonable profits, despite the big sell.

At the end of the day, business is business. You are either good at it or not. You either work hard and smart or you don't. Amway is a people business. But so is every other business!

A few succeed, most don't. But I found the plan to be preying on people's false hopes for others to make a profit. As you say, no mention was made of investment costs. People that came from a business background and inquired about the business planned were fobbed of with prepared upline statements to cover the true business cost. The fact that people were scorned for not making every effort in finding cash for functions got way out of line.

At the end of the day every business relies on good sound market research, and study into competitor strengths and players, cash flows, hard work and determination and reviews at every stage to ensure things are on track. The Amway plan, as stated by distributors, is based on blind belief and deceit - an almost religious belligerence of the true business facts that most normal people would normally try to discover when starting their own ventures.

On the plus side, I have no bad feelings about the Amway Corporation that do supply great quality products. I have little respect for the doctrines passed down to unsuspecting distributors, who churn out the same belligerent messages to the unfortunate masses, and to these distributors own discredit, have not checked the facts for themselves. What kind of business ethics are these people trying to teach?

And to rebuke folk that do not sign on to the "Amway" plan? Call them losers? Terminate all contact? Sheer madness and insensitivity.

One of the good things to have come out of this experience was the exposure to all the great books on personal development (not necessarily the tapes mind you). These have been invaluable for my own, and others, personal development. And yet you can get these from your local library rather than joining Amway.

And yet I have no regrets. Only another chapter of learning from my life.

If you want to know where I am now, I have my own business. I have learnt from my own experience of failures, learnt from the failures of others and I am enjoying my success by running my own Software Development company. I have "followed my dreams" and enjoyed the success of my own labors by taking the risks and challenges that occur in every business. I look at my exposure to Amway as an interesting lesson in not to be blind to a strangers hyperactive rantings without checking a real business thoroughly.

To anyone reading this I urge the following:-

Amway does work....but so does anyone that is willing to work and study the market for their own business. Not everyone is going to make the money that you see in "Profiles of Success". Don't be fooled by the apparent "get rich quick" type of things that your upline say with apparent ease and automation. I have met several wealthy Amway distributors. But I believe these people would do well in any business venture they take. Whether they learn this from the books or experience or ingenuity - that's your call.

"It's not the vehicle, but the person". True. Amway is still sold as a vehicle for anyone to become rich. They do not stress the sheer amount of hard work, the outrageous "tools scandal", the unnecessary "you MUST attend functions or fail" psychology, the snubbing of non-Amway folks.

Amway is not THE only way to become wealthy.

Be warned AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK! Don't be deceived. Don't listen to your upline and DON'T loose your friends. Just because they don't see, or don't want to participate in the business doesn't mean you should not share the wonderful experience of friends. If you want to make a "cold contact", don't just forget about them if they say no about the plan! You should be making friends all along the way. Imagine how they feel! Someone takes the time to talk to them and then springs the plan on them and then disappears just as quick. What on earth is that all about?!?!?!? That's cheap and false.

Think very carefully what you want to do.

Amway is a vehicle. But just a vehicle. OK? ThinK about what you want to do.

[I hope you will print this email on your site. I have tried to convey the fact that while I do not agree that ALL Amway is bad, it is not the only business to make success. Some groups are bad. Many are very, very bad! But some people are trying to make it work.

But I believe in what you are saying Scott, and that is the fact that many people are being deceived and THAT MUST BE STOPPED!!! I am no longer, nor will be, an Amway distributor or a Quixtar IBO etc]

I just recently got involved, went to a meeting and immediately saw the sheep being led to the slaughter. Then I happened upon this gem of a site. I will be forwarding your Web-site to everyone I have introduced to this. What a shame, I really thought this was going to be an interesting avenue to peruse. I got myself excited, along with some of my technoid friends.

The distributor who got me involved in Amway/Quixtar pretty much lied to me like you said on your web site.

He told me that Microsoft had invested in Quixtar. Now I know that that is a lie. He also told me "if you are going to be in this business, then there is no question about it, you are going to buy the tapes and videos."

I'm a 20 year old student who attends Rowan University and I already have an AS in Accounting. I had a gut feeling that this was not a great investment of my time or money.

The distributor wouldn't answer any of my detailed business questions because he knew he was had.

I'm going to get a refund on my kit and I'm telling my sister ASAP not to get involved.

I'm also reporting this distributor to AMWAY about his business ethics .

Thank you,

shaun

Hi, I find the information you have provided is very interesting I am a current Amway Distributor who started off in the "BIG BUSINESS" plan with my husband doing the seminars, showing the plan, shaking hands with Distributors who were Diamonds, Emeralds, and trying to build our business. We were not successful and felt that our up-line at that time just thought of us as another "DISTRIBUTOR COUNT" in their downline. So we quit our distributorship with that group however I really liked using the Amway home products like SA8, Dish Drops, Super Concentrate Supplies, and some other products. We re-signed with a friend and became apart of their downline but we are strictly small business and we are very happy just buying for ourselves. I am not done reading all of the material presented in this website when we are through we will send you another message. So far in our opinion you are very accurate on how we feel about what really happens when you try and build a distribution business in Amway.

Scott,

Well, needless to say, I'm glad I've only invested $50 and around 10 hrs. total time!!!

Mark

It has been three days since I found your link on deja.com. I go there after an unsuccessful attempt at getting into the new quixtar site. Sometimes some of it is there, sometimes nothing. Just finished reading your site thru,and I am glad to find something in print that I have been suspicious of since the Forth of July.

MOST OF MY UPLINE DOES NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT COMPUTERS OR THE WEB!!!!!! I have five years experience in computers and the web. I am no expert, but I know that the problem is in the server at Quixtar. That is what the error messages tell me!

If I resign, it will be from all the lies from upline and the promise of Quixtar.

Scott,

You certainly pulled a lot of skeletons out of the closet.

I have been a distributor for 5 years now, and I have a lot of mixed feelings about the business.

I was a little angered by the presentation of your site, in which you treat all aspects of Amway businesses (i.e. the Amway sales and marketing plan and the "system") as one entity. After mulling this over, though, I realized that this is symptomatic of how the business (at least by Yager, et. al.) is promoted to distributors. My own experiences have reinforced this feeling.

Before I briefly relate how I feel, I would like to thank you for the link to the Jeff Probant site. We share the same line of sponsorship (Stewart/Rummel/Maxwell) and I have heard him in person and met him personally after an open meeting here in OKC. I was delighted to read his site, as I share many of his frustrations with "the system". I only wish I could respond to him personally regarding many of these issues.

The Probant site was very enlightening in its detail of the huge amount of money, made by directs and above, from the sale of tools. I had always wondered why there were special "closed-door" meetings that were only for 4000+ or 7500+ distributors during major functions. I had also wondered why "open" meetings cost more to attend when Diamonds showed the plan. Unfortunately, my suspicions were confirmed. And, it doesn't take a genius to figure that tapes with $0 studio production costs (they are lifted from the PA systems at major functions) and probably only $1 to $2 in duplication costs could generate a HUGE profit when they are sold by the tens of thousands at $6 each. I could go on, but I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

I share your belief that motivational tools are necessary to engage people in the process of thinking on a larger scale. I have been upset for years that our schools and colleges promote the "get a good education so you can get a good job" mentality instead of teaching students the fundamentals of good money management, investment, and entrepreneurial capitalism. Reading Carnegie, Covey, etc. have helped me tremendously. But I think that "ramming them down people's throats", so to speak, is wrong, particularly in the case on major functions, which now cost $400 to $500 per person.

I enjoyed the major functions, and in actuality, for a professional seminar, the cost is reasonable. As an environmental professional, I have attended environmental and industrial hygiene seminars and conventions that cost two to three times the price of an Amway function, and did not include hotel or meals. But the out of pocket expense is heavy on a family that does not earn enough in PV bonuses to cover the costs.

I suppose the real eye opener was the fact that my upline basically stopped communicating with me when my attendance at major functions and consumption of tapes and books ended a couple of years ago. Although I continue to purchase products regularly (this is out of loyalty to products that I find superior in quality) I have not heard from my upline in over two years, which is how long it's been since I attended a major function or purchased a tape or book. Incidentally, over the years I have seen my immediate line of sponsorship dwindle from six deep between myself and my DD to no one. My DD is now my immediate upline.

I guess my question for you is whether or not a good source of income can be derived from the Amway business plan, apart from the Yager "system", and whether or not you ever liked the Amway products. I don't believe that I have ever heard of a single complaint about "Amway" that wasn't REALLY about the "system" or bothersome people in the sponsorship upline. It seems that Amway's plan works, if you don't include the great cost of buying every "optional" tape and book and attending every seminar and rally. And, I prefer many of the Amway products over brands that I used to buy in the stores.

It is my feeling that the reason that so many drop out of the business is "the system." I am upset at the fact that tools are always presented as optional, but at the same time you are constantly badgered into believing that if you don't spend a fortune on tools, you'll never be successful. Being snubbed by my upline, ostensibly for not participating in the "system" (even though I continue to buy $50 to $100 worth of products each month) has not improved my attitude, either.

I forgot to mention that I am in total agreement with you regarding "sales and marketing plan" vs. "business plan". I am in the process of creating an Internet-based start-up company (not an MLM!) and I have spent MANY of hours of my time and hundreds of dollars for legal and financial advice developing a realistic plan involving marketing, sales, expenses, cashflow, etc. Potential Amway distributors should be much more aware of what is actually involved in running a business.

Anyone who starts a business should know that there will always be "Cost of Doing Business" associated with it. I am not completely against tapes or books or seminars, but the most sensible (and ethical) approach to these tools should be to balance the cost and/or usage of the tools with the actual income from the business. Or, as Jeff Probant advocates, give PV and BV to the tools and allow Amway to distribute them, so everyone shares in the revenue they generate. (It is also disturbing that so many of the tools include items like product lists and order forms that are completely unnecessary, since they are almost exact copies of Amway materials.)

I also belive that distributors should be made aware of the amount of money that DD's and above are now making from the tools. I was disappointed when I finally realized that a major portion of their "dream lifestyle" income is derived from tools. When I was new in the business, I questioned why I had to spend $30 - $40 per month on items with 0 PV and 0 BV. I was given the typical "how much would you have to pay to consult with Bill Gates or Sam Walton every week" argument and told that the cost was a bargain compared to the value of the knowledge I gained. Sure, the cost of tapes is still below the cost of music cassettes, but when I pay $9.99 for a tape from the record store, I KNOW the money is going in someone else's pocket. I feel it is deception to constantly advocate a profit-sharing-for-all system (the Amway Sales and Marketing Plan) while using that chance to promote the sale of items that involve profit sharing for only a chosen few. Oh, and did I mention that NO ONE from the local record store made me feel guilty for not buying 8 tapes a month...

On the other hand, I have no problem with tax write-offs associated by some with the Amway business. I simply do not believe that they are any more excessive that the tax write-offs and creative accounting practiced by thousands of companies, and the Federal Government, every year (the Feds could give lessons in creative accounting that would baffle any CPA). Perhaps those angered by the write-offs that some Amway distributors take should look at the general state of tax laws and "corporate welfare" programs that exists today. But I hope that there are not as many people (as you claim) who are duped into the "let's spend all we want and deduct it from our taxes" notion without realizing that they are SPENDING money in order to get those write-offs.

Okay, I think I'm through now. As you can see, I feel strongly about this subject. I have never met a finer group of people, overall, than those I met through this business. I really like many of the Amway products. I am disturbed, though, at the "sheep" mentality that is so abundant in upline-downline dealings. I have never felt comfortable aggressively promoting the Yager system when I know that it is strictly an option. I never presented the business as a get rich quick scheme, because I knew it wasn't. I never presented the business as a scheme to save a huge amount of money, because I knew it wasn't. What I always presented was a way to get superior products at a price competitive with most retail outlets, and have a return on your investment in the form of a monthly rebate check.

I have just been reintroduced to the Amway business as Quixstar the Amway online E-commerce website coming 9.1.99 I was a failure in Amway 23 years ago because of my growing alcoholism problem, which certainly wasn't an tool for success in any endeavor let alone an Amway beginning.

I always blamed myself for "being a quitter", never the Amway marketing plan, never my Sponsor or up-lines. "Quitters never win, and Winners never quit!!" Yet there times late at night when I could not get to sleep thinking the unthinkable: "something stinks here and it ain't me!" I would argue with my self the pros & cons of the methods I was told to use to snooker a prospect into letting me show them the plan of "D & J Enterprises"; never be upfront by just telling the prospect this is Amway's marketing plan. Of course this boomeranged ON ME and only hurt MY INTEGRITY with my friends, family, and just plain nice people, honest people who trusted me to be honest about this as I was honest in 99% of everything else. I sacrificed my good honest reputation to do the business plan the way the "PINS" or big boys told me to do, until after the prospect had seen the "circles upon circles" for D.D. or Direct Distributor opportunity.

I had put that all behind me, so I thought, until a friend of mine told me he was starting an internet business and asked if I be interested discussing it at my home that evening. Why of course I'd be interested I said. Hadn't my WebTV shown a whole new e-commerce coming of age on the World Wide Web? Now I could get in the ground floor with my own internet website. I was excited to say the least. Then my wife detected this as just Amway Online during the presentation by my friend, even though she had never worked Amway. I rebuked her with if it was then how come their Trade name of "Amway" wasn't on it? I wanted to believe so bad in this new e-commerce opportunity, that I totally discounted her objections.

She woke up to let the dog outside and went searching on the internet for more proof and in less than a minute found your website "Amway - all the business myths". I read it and my entire Amway experiences of 23 years ago came flooding back as I read about myth after myth debunked by you. A few hours later, my friend came by to pick up the book and several tapes he had loaned me. I confronted him with your website and he told me he was short on time because he was on his way to work, but that he could email me his explanations by next week. I warned him, as a friend warns a friend, how concerned I was for his integrity. I urged him to read your site carefully at his leisure so he could formulate a detailed reply on paper soon, to satisfy me and all the future prospects' objections, because your site would be the killer of his future chances of success if not the Empire's future of success.

So I am safe. Thanks to you for the detailed analysis of the old dog's new tricks. You deserve a medal! And I have to thank my WebTV for making such internet access possible for a computer illiterate as me. My wife. "I love our WebTV!" Both you and it have saved me from making a major mistake, AGAIN! I am a quick forgetter.

This experience has shown me how valuable the Internet is for sharing information at the speed of light.

Thanks again from the bottom of my heart,

I've been reading everything I could find on the 'net about Amway/Quixtar. I only wish it was BEFORE I fell for it.

On 7/31/99 I signed up for Quixtar and was then handed an Amway kit (just the paperwork no products) and when I protested that I wanted nothing to do with Amway I was assured that it was completely separate. The information I have gathered this week tells me otherwise. I've avoided all the calls from the guy who signed me up (who keeps wanting me to "meet a few people" and start the brainwashing process) and he didn't send me my copy of the contract I signed for three weeks!

I am luckier than many, however, because other that my original distributor fees I have invested neither a nickel of my money nor a minute of my time. I feel like I'm dodging a bullet; I'm getting out before I get in deep.

today I'm writing a letter to the guy who signed me up and asking for a refund of the fee I paid and dropping off the letter and the kit he gave me at his office. All the refund info I've seen on the 'net mentions things like tapes and products an nothing mentions distributor fees. Can I expect to see my money back?

You're site is awesome. Writing to you from Mexico as an ex-distributor in Carlos Marin's system. (Dig into his story. He quit the business, interesting!) I can't believe how long it took to find it. It's not linked up to many other sites. Did you know that? I only found it because that Indian guy who write the article (know who I'm talking about?) out in his bibliography. Get your site out there more, Scott! Anyway, I think you're giving the AMO's message too much credit in your "positive things about Amway" section. (Sorry, I can't remember exactly what you called it!) The AMO's message is so negative and distorts so much. Think about the contact tape. It starts off telling us how bad the rest of the economy is and that if you're thinking about starting any other business: just forget it! According to the AMO's, the situation is dismal! Amway is the only hope! God bless Amway! Have you read the contacting book by Burke Hedges? If not, buy it. It's called "Who Stole the American Dream. Not to be believed! I too would someday like to be financially free and I think I just might do it. However, as a Christian I just can't let this be the focus of my life. There is a difference between a goal and an obsession.