Dialog with Executive Diamond Carrillo

Go to 1/31/01 letter

10/13/00

Gotta figure out a way to also make an entry into this "internet world"...
Funny how our experiences differ. You and your summation of Amway/Quixtar is 180 degrees opposite of what I have experienced; involved in 1982, free by 1986, six figures within four years, quit job after just a couple of levels (used to be a criminal investigator in Dade County, Florida.. Miami) Went from H&R Block to four CPA's and three tax attorneys, have income generating residuals out of four different countries, have traveled the world; all of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, all of Central and South America, all of the U.S.A., Canada. Have done this traveling with my wife and three children.
Went from a 1100 square foot home to owning a large ranch north of Orlando, drive a Mercedes today, instead of the 1975 Datsun B-210 Hatchback I owned when I went to see the plan. Am debt free except for a little left on my land mortgage. No balance on my Visa or Master Card... I guess overall I can say my life is no longer even remotely comparable to what it was when I started my business. So, I believe, that people like you and others like yourself, that can find nothing else to do with your time, other than to badmouth the opportunity that literally changed my life is that you just could not handle the business. Now, in total frustration, and without any other recourse you vent your poison in an attempt to destroy the enthusiasm and excitement of other people. You do tons of damage to others... and, if, that brings you some type of pleasure then you need help.

Louie R. Carrillo
Executive Diamond Associate (free for 15 years and counting)

10/13/00

Dear Mr. Carrillo,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write me. You are the first Diamond to write me and I am glad you did. It is an honor to write you back. I would like to share my thoughts with you as well. I hope you have the patience to hear me out.

Even though my site is "negative" it does not lack truth about the typical lies and falsehoods perpetuated in the AmQuix lines of sponsorship. It is interesting to note that you did not rebuttal any of them including the most important "negative sum game" concept of the current business model. No where in my site do I say that people like you won't exist. I only say they exist in very small proportions. Here is what I believe to be the important economic issues, which I believe hold other people back from experiencing the positive experiences you have in the business.

Certainly you have worked hard to achieve what you have and must be congratulated. I must differ with you on what actually brought your financial success. I would be willing to bet if you would show your businesses financials, that one could easily see that your financial success depends little on the income from Amway and more on the income from tools. I would also be willing to bet that the promotion required just to keep your existing Amway business in place, consumes most of your Amway Corporation paid income. Could you afford to promote Amway as heavily as you do, or to build a business, and at the same time earn no income from tools? It would make for an interesting page on my site. I have copies of the Sitcler income statement from his divorce filing on my site. He is an EDC and the numbers imply to me that he would in the most optimistic case just break even, assuming his expenses were legitimate. It would also be interesting to know if you still qualify as an EDC. His money and lifestyle are made off the system. This is of course is completely legal but the majority of your downline will never participate in the tools bonuses. More could participate, if the business was actually growing. But, with sales dropping 28% in two years, the trend doesn't point to a growing pool of people who will also experience your success. It would interesting to know how long the residuals will last and their rate of decrease when there is no promotion of the business.

Now with all of your people experience and time in this business you know the statistics of this business well. You know a large portion of the people will not show the plan or are afraid to show the plan. Most die hard IBOs say these people are lazy and get what they work for. In many cases I agree. In many cases I believe they also don't show the plan because they don't believe in the products or their competitiveness in the market place. This is where I personally drew the line after researching the opportunity, just like I would have a stock. In many cases the people who don't show the plan haven't figured out a networking only model, taught by many lines of sponsorship, is a negative sum game. The average distributors spend more in overhead than they earn. They know something is wrong but have not analyzed the numbers to know why. Amway is a great business concept because of the low total overhead, but is a poor business because of the low total sales per distributor. As a site visitor put so well in an analogy "Communism is a great idea, but it won't work either". I guess we must agree on what constitutes working? 98% of people making a profit, or 98% of people losing money.

Now to address whether my site does more harm than good as you imply in my letter. Certainly you know the statistics from your business. Almost 50% get out in any one year. I have seen the sheets from Amway that you have also seen on your downline Emeralds. Look for the renewal percentage. Somewhere between 47% and 55% for your groups, right? If you have time fax me your latest summaries at 801-327-3224. How many people have signed up to be in your downline in your 15 years and how many are still left? I certainly would not be proud of that number. I would be less proud of all the tools and function dollars I motivated my downline to spend on a proposition, which I knew has such poor overall results, as well as un-improving results. To me the current AmQuix business model is like selling whole life insurance to new college graduates. You can be successful and earn a lot of money but you also know 95% of those policies will not be renewed once the customer figures out what a crappy deal he got. I would not be proud to have such a business even though I could make a lot of money at it.

I have worked many years in manufacturing of automotive components. The customers in that market demand total quality and total satisfaction. The quality levels we deal in are 20 ppm or less range, or 20 parts in one million, or .002%. I have developed extensive problem solving skills as well as a hard core continuous improvement mind set. Whether it is a manufacturing process or people process the cause and effects can be analyzed rationally and logically. Improvements can always be made in any system.

If I were in your shoes I would be asking myself the following questions on how the business could be better for more people. Why does such a high percentage leave? Why, if the products were competitive, would so many still leave? How could I improve the businesses "first time yield" so that so many don't quit? How would I get to a 1000ppm (1%) defect rate instead of a near 500,000 ppm (50%) defect rate? What can I do to make sure those that leave do not leave with a bad taste to tell their friends about? What can I do to minimize the financial impact on someone that doesn't make/won't make it in the business? I can certainly tell you from site visitor feedback alone that there are serious problems in the AmQuix "system". Certainly you have noticed from your ticket sales to functions, tape sales and Amway product sales that the market is not responding well to AmQuix now that the "cat is out of the bag", so to say. It would seem problems and obvious lies that were unresolved for years and years are now coming back to haunt you guys. Amway is indeed reaping what has been sowed. This whole thing is blowing up in their faces when everyone knew there were problems all along. It is similar to the Firestone/Ford explorer problem. Don't continuously improve and ignore the data of a problem for years and see where it gets you. Maybe AmQuix should do a little benchmarking with other industries in the continuous improvement area.

I, like you, want to help other people. You believe you can help people by showing them the $200/month business model, which mathematically is destined to fail (be unprofitable) for 98% of the participants. I believe I can help more people not to fail (not be unprofitable) for 98% of the participants. Amway has the data, you have the data, but yet they do nothing to improve the profitability of IBOs or retention rates. Just put more people in the system and a few good ones might pop out and make money. Seems like this strategy leaves a lot of carcasses by the road. What is that line from Amway tapes? "If I keep doing what I'm doing, nothing will change" Sure they have gone to Quixtar but they haven't changed the inefficient business model. If you read my site that this is my beef with the business, besides the blatant deception and lies many tell. Their system shows a franchising model which encourages people to spend $1,200-$2,400 per year yet only sell goods to yield $675/year in gross margin with the $200 model.

Have you ever added up the total money spent in your lines on tapes and functions and compared it to the total Amway bonuses paid out to you and your group? I would bet the ratio is huge and about 50%. Will you give me these numbers? If you factor in mileage and travel costs, I would bet all expenses consume the Amway bonuses. Even if there is a small positive output, the compensation per hour would be terrible.

No wonder people will quit. There is no positive profit bias in the business. Why? Lack of retail sales! In the effort to make the business look sexy and new age, many lines discourage retail sales, and no one attempts to enforce it? Why? Selling would turn people off, and IBOs don't sell the very profitable tapes to retail customers. In the AQMOs effort to make the business more attractive to more people, they knowingly promote a business model where most will fail financially.

Maybe our ethics are different. I believe AmQuix should use the Hippocratic oath, "first do no harm". I can say with a very high probability that the current AmQuix systems do not live by this.

Just to show you my genuine interest in improving the situation and helping the business to improve their retention rates I have developed a "new plan", which was submitted to my '"pen pal" at Quixtar just yesterday. I am attaching it for you as well. He is forwarding a copy to Greg Duncan. Please read this over and give me your opinion. The plan I promote is geared to make a model profitable "sales" businesses based upon common business sense. The plan I present enforces specific "good business practices", which lack of enforcement and good sense on the part of the IBO today causes most IBOs to lose money today. The plan addresses the negative sum game issue, which in the end holds the businesses growth profit back. It also promotes some minimum level of training for people who are allowed to reproduce the business. Coming from a manufacturing environment, the training practices in AmQuix are truly laughable. I would be setting myself up for a $100 million recall if I put untrained operators on an assembly line. In order for Amway/Quixtar to protect their reputation they should enforce a minimum standard of training as administered by an exam from the corporation. Did you ever play that "telephone game" where you say one thing then tell another and so one? What happens to the message at the end? It is all distorted! The corporation must also learn not to hype things too much if it wishes to gain credibility. The "Microsoft/IBM" partnership" is a classic example of the Corporation setting itself up for problems with the high-speed rumor mill in AmQuix. The Corporation set the stage for people to take this all wrong. They should have learned by now how to handle and promote such situations in a conservative manner. The corporation wants to have the image of a Republican but hypes the business like Al Gore and the Democrats! Sure the "Microsoft partnership" has helped promote the business but I think it has once again hurt their credibility and reputation since the rumored version is so easy to disprove. The consequences of such wording were easy for me to see. I would guess Amway/Quixtar knew themselves as well. Maybe hype is the real thing and not true integrity and truth.

If the "market" views the AmQuix product line as not competitive and a better way to distribute goods and services it will surely reveal itself with my "new Plan" business model. Few will be able to sign up members and clients and few will advance to the Networking stage. If the product line is competitive and people really value the shopping experience there will be plenty of retail sales and 98% of the people will be making a profit as compared to 98% losing money today. Certainly fewer people will want to look at the opportunity once retail sales are mandatory to advance to recruiting, but then again why try to attract people who fail financially otherwise? This model will certainly help your retention rates by eliminating people who would normally otherwise quit.

This has been very interesting for me and I hope you as well. We both want to help people but given the AmQuix business model employed today I will help 98% of my site readers financially versus your 2% in the Yager line of sponsorship. You might help more mentally, but I know from site visitor feedback that the system also does harm. I have enclosed two examples, which are not published on my web site.

I hope to continue this dialog.

Best Regards,

Scott

10/14/00

I am afraid I do not "download" anything from anyone I do not know, however, I would more than welcome your answer to my letter... I do not know who you were involved with, nor do I know how you were treated during your experience in Amway and/or Quixtar, however, I can tell you that it is sad to see a young person such as yourself, with an entire life still to live (I am afraid I do not fall into the "young" category anymore)... be so bitter about an experience that he/she is willing to go out and create (or attempt) to create havoc for others which may have enthusiasm (like I did many years ago) and disrupt the dreams they have. Too bad... I am assuming your name is Scott so I'll call you that.. So long Scott.. Louie

10/14/00

Dear Louie,

You needn't download anything from my e-mail, any good virus scan software will confirm my text files I sent you to be virus free. Most computer people know text files are the safest of all files to open. The new plan web page is at:

amway_new_plan.html

I was in the Florence-Nettles-Connely line. I was treated ok except for the blatant lies I was told. But that came from Florence since everyone "reproduced him". He was head of the ethics committee!

It is rather amazing all you can focus on is "the havoc I am creating and bitterness" and not the issues I bring up. Did you not read my e-mail? It is truly a shame that the attitude of the high pins is to ignore the problems and hope they go away as I get is the impression from your letter. What are the dreams I am disrupting? Those of the high pins abusing their downlines and taking their money on a poor business model? I guess you would call me a dream stealer too if I was trying to stop child pornography and you were a kiddie porn king whose dream I was taking away!

Regards,

Scott

amway.html

10/15/00

Scott.... I am not concentrating on anything other than the overall negative attitude of your entry on the internet board under the quixtar heading... by the way, as far as "files" are concerned, I would not know the difference between a "text" file and a "metal" file. I simply am not that computer literate... however, I am going to figure out a way to also "make an entry" for those that might choose to look at a different point of view and a different result from someone that was not in the business for a handful of months, but in the business for eighteen years and what that determination produced. Your comment about "child pornography" is ridiculous and I will not give that any remark at all... your comment about "poor business model" is rather weak and quite immature since you are talking about a multi-billion dollar corporation that operates in 83 different countries around the world... when you argue with a success story matched by few, your comments can make you look silly and uninformed. Overall, somebody upset you, too bad... many people (you are not the only one) are upset for whatever reason at the best opportunity on planet earth and walk away in total frustration. The blame usually is not with the corporation, but with "someone" that did not handle their responsibilities correctly. I hope you are able to find some type of peace with yourself and with the company and move on...
Regards... Louie Carrillo

10/15/00

Dear Mr. Carrillo,

I'll be glad to post your "entry".

I won't be moving on for a while. Too many people are still being lied to about the business.

I'm sorry if you didn't understand the analogy I made. Let me put it this way with a less emotional subject. Would I be a dream stealer of the whole life insurance salesmen if I bad mouthed the poor value of whole life insurance policies, if I pointed out a better way for the public to get insurance?

It seems for some reason it is ok for IBOs to spread positive lies and deception while the truths on my site are bad mouthed as being negative. Well if that is the way of Amspeak, I love being negative and at the same truthful. You should see all the "positive" negative feedback I get about my site. It is too bad I didn't have the equal and opposite number of letters telling me how much money people were reporting as profit on their taxes and how they were signing up 1 new person a month because the products were just so competitive and the education about the products by the distributors was superior to what they have ever received before. How about that note I sent you from the retarded kid's mother. Do think the retarded kid will be charismatic enough to sponsor anyone just because he shows the plan 10-15 times a month? It doesn't really matter as long as his upline can sell him tapes and seminars right?

I guess my site is negative if you come from a Pro-AmQuix perspective of helping the 2% of the people become profitable and allowing you to reap the big money from tapes and seminars. It is actually positive from an anti-Amquix perspective in pointing out the business and economic fundamentals that allow 98% to be unprofitable and how the site visitor can have a less unprofitable business. You believe any body can make a poor business model work. You sell the motivational supplies to keep them pushing the poor model and make good money doing it. Hey you did it, why can't everyone else do it right? I believe it could work better for more people if it were more competitive and people actually had higher sales per IBO and it was an enforced policy.

I could have received the same enlightenment about the business from a first year IBO who just got back from his first motivational seminar. I can give you guys credit for all saying the same thing although it has little substance in regards to business competitiveness and rational business analysis. I can see how you all believe that chant "If you have a dream the facts don't matter".

The market will continue to reward the "multi billion dollar" corporation with the appropriate level of sales growth for whatever purpose it serves the economy. Considering the 28% drop in sales in two years despite opening in new markets we will see who is right in a few more years. We both know that even removing the sales drop from Asia that overall sales are falling. How is your business doing? Are sales up or are sales down? The market will be the judge of whose arguments are weak or immature.

Hey did you read about the Schmitz law suit? It is amazing someone could steal away a person's tool business. Gooch isn't your upline is he?

Regards,

Scott

All businesses fluctuate... just look at the stock market. One day a company is worth so much, the next day the same company drops 25% in value and so on and so forth. Louie is fine... Mr. Carrillo makes me feel old.. for some reason you seem to enjoy keeping up with all the garbage on the web.
Now, it's Charley and Kim Schmidt.... have known them for years. Strange fellow, rather "distant"... who knows the truth about what is going on? I certainly dont. You dont believe everything you read, do you?? Gooch?? Yep... he is up there somewhere in the line. Really dont know the man that well... but, I've never had any negative dealings with him. By the way... just out of curiosity, how long were you in the business before you decided this was not for you?? Take care..... Louie Carrillo

 

 

Hi Louie,

To answer your question. I was introduced to Amway and asked a lot of questions but to no avail I did not receive what I was looking for. So I bought a kit to get the prices and the rules. I went to one function. That was interesting to see all the glassy eyed people being led around like sheep.

I hadn't figured out the negative sum game at that time but I knew something was funny when everyone spent 1,000-$2,400 per year on overhead, no one was retailing and they just bought $2,400/year for themselves.

After I did my price study I did not want to show people how to spend more than what they would now spend. I was told it was more efficient at distribution and that made it a better system. I had played Wal-Mart stock and knew the power of a more efficient distribution system. By the way, they have never had a sales drop unlike Amway.

Total time studying it before I told them I wanted my BSMs refunded was about 3 months. There was no way I was going to show my friends this until I knew how and why it worked. I did not show the plan while I was studying. I guess my upline screwed up and didn't sign anyone up under me to make me "excited" and quit the logical and rational stuff! I got the run around on returning tools. So I saw how credible these great people were in a short period of time. That was before the BSMAA. The upline direct kept the sales tax I had paid but did pay back most everything since I was persistent.

All I can say I am here to help point out the weak spots in AmQuix. Many people over spend on tools before they know anything about the products. I would like to see the model improved like I suggested in the New Plan to minimize the losses. Have you ever surveyed your downline for profitability? Have you ever compared or tried to estimate how much they are spending in comparison to what they earned? Does it interest you at all if you downline is profitable? You know as well as I that the business is not growing fast enough to make all profitable in a reasonable time. Continuous improvement is always good.

Is the market for Amway and Quixtar not growing fast enough because all the IBOs or lazy or that they have a marginally competitive system?

What do you believe is the fundamental competitive advantage of AmQuix? The ability to network and sell a captive audience products? The products? The prices? The life improvement system? Is it a product distribution system or a small business brokerage?

To answer your question about the Schmitz suit, I did read the court filing. I believe it is a valid court filing. The court will have to figure out if it is true. In any case both are Diamonds, and if one is right the other must be wrong. There are tons of former distributors out there that were lied to about the tools profits for years. Many of them send me stuff when they come across it. So I don't go looking for it, it gets sent to me.

I estimate there must be 8-10 million former distributors out there factoring in even those that did it twice or three times. That is a lot of potential pissed off people out there. That is why I suggest they need to change the model to promote a more profitable business model. Hopefully the products get more competitive as well else they will always be niche player. The pyramid buying club mentality will not work anymore. The WEB is too powerful of a medium for disseminating information. The mathematical failure of the Amway pyramid buying club for the average IBO has been seen by hundreds of thousands of people and experienced by millions. The partner stores are a great idea, but the pay outs are too small for the IBOs to make serious money without having tons of members to bring in the extra margin to avoid the "negative sum game". What is the ratio of members to IBOs in your line?

Is Amquix going to change the model or go the way of the buggy whip? If you think AmQuix is great now just think how much better it would be with my suggestions to help more of the average IBOs make more money.

Regards,

Scott

10/17/00

Scott...... I read your whole letter. Gotta tell you... I understand now why you had such a falling out in the Florence organization. You evaluate, study, concentrate so much on the fine print, argue every point of the plan, see every fault, look for every flaw, rationalize every thought, twist every fact, etc etc ... that no wonder you are all wrapped up in "proving" your point. Heck, there is no "perfect" business model on the planet. But, once understood, this one can set you free. I did it and have not regretted one moment on the decision I made over 18 years ago. It has been, and will continue to be, the greatest business opportunity known on the planet with little to no overhead, almost zip liability, on automatic in the accounting/delivery/inventory control area, no employees (I have two secretaries to run a multi-million dollar corporation), and I could just go on and on about how this company and it's concept changed my whole life to
the better. I will eventually make an entry so that those that have a "need" to evaluate pros/cons can see another side of the issue. There is always a very small and vocal minority that makes the "most noise"... the silent majority needs to also express itself. In the 18 years I have done this, I have also had my handful that finds this is worthless and contributes nothing to their life. Usually those "with an attitude" have a deeper, underlying reason for such attitude. Too bad for you... you seem (online) as a very smart and intelligent young man with the ability to rationalize and come to a
conclusion (not everyoone can digest information) as to what you see or dont see with this plan. You'd be a terror for sure if YOU BELIEVED.. I'd say diamond material. But, then again, who knows. Take care Scott... it's been great talking with you. I wish you the best.
Louie R. Carrillo
Executive Diamond Distributor

1/31/01

Hey Scott... Great to hear from you. Please post this message on your message board so that all who may read it will have a "second opinion"...

Well, we just completed our first year in Quixtar (There is no such thing as AmQuix, this is one of your disrespectful brainstorms)... and here are the figures; $518 million in sales on our first year, which included $448 million at Quixtar. An additional $70 million at Quixtar Partner Stores. Not bad, considering that Amazon.com registered only approximately $147 million their first year and eBay sold just $32 million it's first year. $518 million is a long way from what the competition did. In September of last year, the National Retail Federation ranked Quixtar the 7th top e-commerce site based on their "low" estimate of our sales. Also, the same outfit, ranked Quixtar the Number 1 site in terms of potential for repeat sales. The Retail Federation of Canada and DeLoitte and Touche in Canada released a survey that ranked Quixtar the second top e-commerce company in Canada and tops in the Health and Beauty category. In October of last year, "Internet World" magazine ranked the top e-commerce companies. Quixtar was not included because it's not a publicly traded company. Yet, when comparing Quixtar sales of $518 million to the top 10 companies in the listing, Quixtar would be the 5th largest e-commerce company in the United States. Not bad

Scott for being in this type of business for only one year. Hey, here's something even more important.... the $518 million?? Those associated with Quixtar earned $143 million of the $518 million in bonuses. Now, don't mean to brag or nothing Scott, but..... the proof is in the "puddin" Personally I cant even imagine WHY you would attend a meeting, done by "who knows" to see something you dislike so much... this is a "people" business and neither the Quixtar company NOR the FTC can do much about what people do, say, project, lie about, confuse, distort, etc etc ... kinda like you

Scott... nobody can do much about what you say or do... personally I could care less about what you think or dont think, what that fellow said or didn't say, or what you may understand or dont understand. Here's what I do understand... after almost 20 years of building this business... as opposed to your ... (I think you told me you lasted a couple of months) .. I have yet to be disappointed with my association to Quixtar. Hey, you take care

Scott and don't forget to publish this entry in your website.

Louie R. Carrillo

Executive Diamond (Quixtar Company)

Louie,

Great to hear from you too. I'll post your message.

The stat's are a little old, but thanks never the less. Geez, I thought you were going to give me some inside information or something. You know that $518 million would be impressive if you didn't have several hundred thousand IBOs stop shopping at Amway and start shopping at Quixtar at the drop of a hat. Amazon and the others had to start from scratch. Wal-Mart will be reporting about 18% sales growth for the year. What was Amway with the "amazing Quixtar launch" included? Sales were basically flat.. hoowha! You guys were kicking butt and taking names last year with that sales growth!

Let's play a little game since you guys love to compare yourselves to Amazon.com. We will change Amazon.com's name to Quixzon.com tomorrow and they will have $1.78 billion in sales their first year running! Ha, they just wiped out your record! They did to Quixtar, what Quixtar did to them.

$143 million in bonuses is quite a lot of money. Let's look at it a little deeper.

In 1998 Amway reported world wide estimated retail sales of $5.7 billion. Of this 30% was reported to be in the North American market of 750,000 distributors. Factoring for the 25% estimated retail sales markup this made estimated corporate sales of $1.28 billion. From this the following table is derived.

 

1976 Amway

1998 Amway

2000 Quixtar + Partner Store

IBO

Active IBO

IBO

Active IBO

IBO

Active IBO

Wholesale sales/yr

$469

$1145

$1710

$4170

$1295

$3158

Earnings/month

$14

$34

$36

$88

$30

$72

Using Amway's old data that 41% of IBOs are active and using Quixtar's 400,000 IBOs as a base, the average active Quixtar IBO made about $872 or $72.66/month. This is less than $2.40/day. This is only 83% of the $88/month average reported by Amway as the income of an average active distributor.

Quixtar was profitable despite Ron Puryear saying on his tape "The goose that laid the golden egg" that Quixtar was to be run with no profit motive. Well we all know how much Amazon lost too. However, what we will never know is, how much in total all the IBOs lost promoting and reproducing the Quixtar business. I guess by your reply that you won't be filling out my "Challenge" form, hu? If you did fill it out, then we could compare the Quixtar IBO losses to Amazon.com's losses and see who lost more money promoting their WEB businesses. There is no need for IBOs to look at that, as it might be a scary number to look at. Geez, if you found out you taught your downline to spend several million dollars promoting their Quixtar businesses, and they only earned 80% of that back from Quixtar, it might destroy your belief that you are helping people make money and get free.

Aw, come on, I thought that the "AmQuix" name was very creative on my part. It takes the best part of both names to make an even better name. I'll have to work on a better one. How's AmQuixTor? You know, Amway is adding so many names these days it is tough to keep track of them all anymore.

Well, Louie, I got to wrap it up and go for a run. I'd only like to see fewer people lose money in the business. I suggest teaching more retailing, and screen prospects better before they commit to the system. If they aren't turning a profit in 4 years kick them out for their own good.

Have fun, enjoy life,

Scott

ps. How come you are supporting the "competition" with AOL? You should be on Quixnet.net and get a few points.

"If you give your money to the competition, it doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to give your money Sears or Penny when you have a company that provides you 5000 products and services? Does it make any sense to anybody that you wold give retail money to the competition? Of course not." Executive Diamond Louie Carrillo - tape: "Forks in the Road" DBR767

 

Site visitor feedback to the discussion:

Scott,

Good dialogue with Louie Carrillo. I got good chuckle when he criticized you reading "all that fine print".

As for Louie Carillo, I'm sure he has his rough spots, like all of us, but he has helped us tremendously and doesn't even know it. I saw him speak at a seminar, and his comments about protecting family encouraged me to take action in my life, and directly impacted (positively) almost everything I do. Hopefully, I'll be able to return the favor someday.

Scott,

I've just read Louis Carrello's commentary with a great deal of interest. I was pleased that you were able to generate a response from someone at his level of success in the business. I was hoping he was going to clear the air about some matters.

Sorry to say, Mr. Carrillo offered us very little insight into the workings of his business. He devoted considerable time to mentioning his material possessions, but gave us absolutely no clue as to what his actual earnings were. Before considering becoming an Amway distributor, I would like him to answer the following questions:

1) What was your NET income last year from your Amway endeavors?

2) How much in taxes did you pay to the IRS on your Amway income last year?

3) Please furnish us with a breakdown of how you Amway income was generated:

a) Personal sales of Amway products.

b) Sponsoring efforts

c) Tool income

4) What were your total overhead costs in Amway last year?

5) How many hours did you have to spend doing Amway last year to earn the income you did? In other words, how much do you earn an hour in Amway?

6) My last question is a personal one: Do you have any friends who are more successful than you who are NOT involved with Amway?

Hope Mr. Carrillo is willing to answer these questions. It would certainly clarify a lot of issues! I am waiting with baited breath!

Scott thought that your e-mail with Louie Carrillo was good reading. I find it interesting that he would not talk issues with you only your attitude. I would like to see some of the diamonds and emeralds sit down with some former distributors and find out how they can improve what they are doing. For a group of people to talk about integrity the way most IBO's do it is strange to me that when I got in the business that no one ever told me that there was money in the tools and that I needed to be selling products. During my 5 years in we had one 6 month period that we made money. thank you Scott.

One thing to think about (after reading Carrillo's replies to you) is if people were NOT losing money, at least three levels down, the business would have exploded and saturated the world years ago. He should just admit that investment loss is key to keeping it on the edge, and preventing runaway growth.

Read your dialog with Louis Carillo. Except for you child-porn comment, I think you did very well overall. I, too, was disappointed (thought not surprised) that he was not willing to debate facts or to provide evidence to the contrary, even in as much as sharing his own financial information to prove you otherwise 

 Your dialog with Loiue Carillo (Whom I am very familiar with, have listened to his tapes) was unbelievable... he is just skirting the real issues. Of course he's happy with the "system", for crying out loud, he's in that small percentile that made this work. Not me though, that is money made on deception. I wouldn't want it!!

Hey Scott,

Just saw your piece on Lou Carrillo. The pic is him. I knew him when I lived in Florida. He lived in Pembroke Pines/Cooper City which is just west of Fort Lauderdale. If you look in profiles of success book that is his home there. He was one of the air traffic controllers that got the ax in "81". Yes I was in his direct downlink and have been to his house. The letters sound like him. Always skirting around the TRUE Figures in that business. Yes he is a very motivating kind of person and all everyone is saying is true about that business. I too would like to see where his income comes from. I know that for sure if you get 100% into the system you have all the up line support you can handle. But don't get on tape of the week, book of the month or stay out of the "Tool" loop, miss a function and then where are they. That is why so many leave I think. they finally do their tax's and start to realize how much they are losing to "THE BUSINESS". It only supports the top 20% of the Amway business. The emeralds and diamonds. If these guys had to rely on making their income off selling product they would all be where the little guy is. Also the diamonds share in all the money these functions and rallies generate. I often time wondered who much of the cash was not accounted for. I can tell you from first hand experience that unless you plug 100% into" the system" you will be left out in the cold to try to peddle their over priced product.

Hi Scott, just read your web site and the conversation with Louie Carillo,,I was in Amway and met Louie and his wife Kathy, they are both as phony as they come. When I tried to pick his brain about how Amway worked he totally ignored me and literally walked away. I quit Amway after two months because the whole business to me is a scam, My wife refers it as " the cult "... The Carillo's turned my stomach. Mark

 Scott: this was a classic line in the discussion.

"ps. How come you are supporting the "competition" with AOL? You should be on Quixnet.net and get a few points."

My upline was on Quixnet.net and switched to AOL after a few short months. When asked why he was supporting the competition he replied "Quixnet.net is way too expensive." Funny how these people can shop for value while telling you to "buy from your business." AmQuix is a big joke. It all boils down to three things in the end: 1) buy 200 PV every month; 2) buy the tapes, books, and events; 3) show the plan. It is all a big crock.

Bryan

 DEAR SCOTT:

Congratulations for your analysis about the Amway-quixtar bussines.

I read the convesation with Louis Carrillo, it's great, everybody have a pesronal vision and always is important know the view points abaut the topics.

I'm an IBO in Mexico, and i can tell you this, every person whit a dream in their heart is only nesesary to be succesful in this bussines, I have seven years in this bussines, I saw many people become to liberty, I work and found that, in my view, mr. Carrillo is an example for the rest of the world in the Amway Bussines, and other activity, I know about economy, but the skills, the confidence, the courage, are most important than every economics analysis, econometrics projections,etc.

Carlos

Scott: I have an idea of why my upline and others don't use this great "family friendly Internet Service". Here is what I think happened to my upline with it the first month after he bought his new Gateway computer.

First month on Quixnet was 9/1999

No local access number so he dialed the --1-800 number for ONLY $4.95 per hour.

150 total hours per month for only $24.95

I think he exceeded his hours by about 50 (he forgot to disconnect sometimes), so his first and only bill from Quixnet looked like this:

Monthly fee--$24.95

Connection charges @ 200 hours--$990.00

50 hours in excess of plan--$100.00

Total bill for one month's worth of Internet access was $1114.95--what a deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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