Upline conduct Case Studies

Scott,

Great site. I was in Amway for about a year between '96-'97. I reached the 1000 PV level after spending about $15,000 that year on system tools, functions, etc.

I knew I had to get out when in a two-week period:

1. My upline went into my brother's house for a meeting and listed all the furniture he could sell to go to functions, buy tapes, etc.

2. My wife and I bought a new car and were scolded because we did not "counsel" with our upline Direct before doing so. We were told that we were messing with his business.

3. My wife and I were told to go counsel with our upline Direct on the appropriate time to start having children.

4. My wife was branded as a "neggie" because at product pickup she complained about downline distributors bouncing checks to us for the 3rd time.

The results of my Amway fiasco:

1. Divorce.

2. Bankruptcy.

3. Laughter from friends and family.

Todd

We joined what we were told was Quixtar (we were not told we had to join through Amway first until the night we stupidly signed the papers) at the end of July. It was late on a Friday night and the person signing us up was an attorney and our new neighbor. When we first were told about the business, we were told it was $213 to join with no monthly expenses. We also were told that Quixtar was not Amway; it just was owned by the same people.

We were first given the Amway application to sign and we then were asked for a check made out to the person signing us up. Then we were given the distributors agreement to sign and when I started to read the paper I was told by our neighbor that he is an attorney and everything is legal. All we are signing is a paper about arbitration. We were tired and trusting (the person living next door to you would not scam you) and we stupidly signed it. We did not even know what the term tools meant.

We were never given the Amway catalogs before hand and it was not explained to us about point values or cost of products. We also were never given a copy of the Amway agreement. The following day we took a look at the catalogs and materials and called our neighbors about backing out of the business. He was at our door before we even hung up the telephone and again we stupidly accepted his lies and continued to stay with it.

Two weeks later they told us to come over for the toolbox. (We did not even know what this was and was not expecting it.) There was never a receipt given to us or a breakdown of where the money was going. When I was given the tool box, which was already opened by them, I was also given tapes. I was told "these are your weekly tapes". I did not think about it at the time, but when I got home I looked at the tapes and found an invoice in them for $13.20. I immediately called them and asked what the invoice was for they said we owed them the money for the weekly tapes. We told them we never ordered any tapes and would accept these but did not want anymore. They told me that they were on one-week back order and we had to take the next weeks as well. We were upset but said okay. We finally realized we were being scammed and decided to not do any Quixtar or Amway business for a while. Our neighbors also tried to talk us into weekly and biweekly meetings at a cost of $5 to $15 a shot telling us we did not know how to run a billion dollar business on our own and must attend these meetings. We refused.

All contact then ended with our neighbors. In late September we found your Website and learned we were entitled to a refund. We contacted our neighbors and Amway as you suggested by certified mail and then the games began. We had no problem with the Amway organization they were very courteous (although we still do not have the starter kit refund). Our neighbors are willing to accept the tools back from us, but will not return our money until they go through the materials to see what they can resell. We told them all the materials are sealed and never used and we would be happy to wait while they go through everything and they can then refund our money on the spot. After numerous conversations and delay tactics on their part, they are still refusing to refund the money at the time the tools are returned. We do not and have no reason to trust them. We probably will never see the money from them and they will just scam someone else with the same tools. Today our neighbor again violated the Amway rules of conduct by screaming at me on the telephone.

We will contact Amway distributor relations tomorrow and see what we can do about this situation. If you have any suggestions we would appreciate it.

Please continue to inform your readers, that they should not get involved with any uplines if they want an honest business. We never found out if Amway was legit. Our sponsor was not and we will never get involved in any MLM AGAIN.

We were lucky to get out of it with less than $250 spent and might still see some of this back from Amway. Our dishonest neighbors will have to face us everyday. We look forward to staring them straight in the eyes on a daily basis. They have to live with themselves. That is payback enough.

Hey Scott, a while back I sent some e-mails in which I argued with you about the business. I still feel the Amway op. is a great vehicle, but I apologize for the mail. I disagree on a few issues, but you are totally on with the AMOs. I was unaware of the deception involved here, and I was sucked in lke the rest. These people are feeding off a pool of millions who will buy BSMs but will never make it. These guys make money no matter who succeeds. They told me not to reinvent the wheel.

Your site actually made me look into the business a whole lot more.

Thanks. This business can be done without the system, but that also means without the uplines help. I started to ask a lot of questions and they back-doored me and went right into my downline so I would not say anything to "ruin their dreams". Yeah right! I was, however, prepared, and I taped a conversation with my direct. I have tape of him saying he does not enforce the retail sales rule because he does not feel like messing with it. We know the real reason for that. You have saved my butt. Thanks. Who should I give the recording to. The Attorney General? I have several for back-up. Would you like a copy?

The funny part of this recording is that I only called the direct to tell them I wanted to get off the tapes, and he spent an hour and a half trying to convince me otherwise. He also told me not to tell my group of 40+ distributors the real reasons I wanted to leave the business. No surprise, and because of your site I had the recorder ready. This guy was unbelievable, no actually he was pretty good at having an answer to everything I said. What a crock of shit. The tool biz is a pyramid because there is no chance for a beginner to make money like there is on the products side of the biz. This guy tried to work me for that long, and I ONLY WANTED TO STOP THE F_ _ _KING TAPES. The brainwashing is felt by myself now that I can see the light. I truly apologize for slandering you and your site. I now realize you are doing a great service to those who are already in like myself, and to those who are merely looking. I need your help, and I understand if you tell me to shove it. But I now stand for the cause you promote because I was merely a product of the cult when I argued with you. These are some greedy bastard, and they will do anything to get the cash. What can I do to help. I am a very ethical person, and that is why this makes me sick. I fell to my knees with the manipulation of these pros. They are good, and they will continue to work this scam. The Amway scam needs to be cleaned up, and I truly believe in the product side of the biz like any other opportunity. Something needs to be done to help people like me who have gotten washed clean of my own good judgement. The funny thing was that I rejected the system for three years, and I gave in because I needed help, and they would only give it to me if I followed the "system". I now know why thanks to you and many others. I commend you on your mission. Thanks

Hi Scott!

Buy back UNUSED business materials? Yeah, right!! I have been trying to sell those things back for a month, and I can't even get a return phone call. Their rules are such a bunch of crap!! By the way, our sponsors have pissed off everyone upline by telling them that they are going to do their business their way. RETAILING, not sponsoring. They got off "tapes of the week", Amvox, and they are not going to anymore functions. Unfortunately, they lost a lot of money, much more than we did. My hope for them is that they will recover. I can't thank you enough for opening our eyes to all of the lies. Pat (our sponsor) told our Platinum to call him when he could stop lying to him, and he hasn't heard from him since.... Small wonder.

I hit roadblocks everywhere I go, trying to get information on how to sell back the materials. No one ever replies to my e-mails or phone calls, and every time I call, I get put on hold for a minimum of fifteen minutes, until I finally get so frustrated that I hang up. I'm sure that is what they want. My time is too valuable to waste on the phone for hours waiting for answers. I am sick and tired of being taken advantage of. These people are experts...